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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]

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B

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
do we know how much of the WoW TCG team ended up on Hearthstone? Not counting raids or dungeons, WoW TCG was at around 3 sets a year through its entire life (including its first year). I would genuinely be shocked if Hearthstone ends up less than that.

FWIW, the first years of WoW TCG looked like

2006-2007
Heroes of Azeroth 380 cards
Through the Dark Portal 340 cards
Fires of Outland 249 cards

2007-2008
March of the Legion 338 cards
Shadow of the Betrayer 264 cards
The Hunt for Illidan 252 cards
 
X

Xater

Member
borghe said:
do we know how much of the WoW TCG team ended up on Hearthstone? Not counting raids or dungeons, WoW TCG was at around 3 sets a year through its entire life (including its first year). I would genuinely be shocked if Hearthstone ends up less than that.

FWIW, the first years of WoW TCG looked like

2006-2007
Heroes of Azeroth 380 cards
Through the Dark Portal 340 cards
Fires of Outland 249 cards

2007-2008
March of the Legion 338 cards
Shadow of the Betrayer 264 cards
The Hunt for Illidan 252 cards
Click to expand...

I would be happy with 50-100 card expansions. Just something they feel comfortable putting out on a more regular basis.
 
B

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
SteveWD40 said:
Fuck a limited release... Worldwide or bust.
Click to expand...

the ever famous "canada/new zealand"-only releases are essentially wide beta tests. that's really the main and only reason for them. the only part that throws me off is that those are usually done with new f2p games to gather large sample metrics, something that's not needed for Hearthstone as it's already available.. but we'll see I guess.
 
J

jblank83

Member
borghe said:
Eventually you get tired of playing the same 10 or so decks over and over and over again (an exaggeration of course, but one that doesn't entirely miss the mark)
Click to expand...

Pretty much. I think Hearthstone is great. There's just so much you can play of one game, and at this point I've played every day for 5-6 months.
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
borghe said:
the ever famous "canada/new zealand"-only releases are essentially wide beta tests. that's really the main and only reason for them. the only part that throws me off is that those are usually done with new f2p games to gather large sample metrics, something that's not needed for Hearthstone as it's already available.. but we'll see I guess.
Click to expand...

Are you sure it has nothing to do with how Apple roll out their stuff? FTL just released on iPad today in NZ/AUS/China because of how the content is rolled out in stores. That game is expected to be available everywhere tomorrow.
 
H

Haines

Banned
Minsc said:
A drop in the bucket for a MtG player.
Click to expand...

I dont play MTG but I believe they can recoup some of that if they decide to get out right?

I mean, that why I wont play MTG. Too much of a collector thing where your money just dissapears.

I'll never put a dime in HS, but the f2p model sure is a crazy one. The game should cost 20 bucks max for everything but put a slot machine in it to get the dlc and bam money maker.
 
B

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Hydranockz said:
Are you sure it has nothing to do with how Apple roll out their stuff? FTL just released on iPad today in NZ/AUS/China because of how the content is rolled out in stores. That game is expected to be available everywhere tomorrow.
Click to expand...

there are two things you are talking about. the first is just the midnight rollout. That's normal. Games that apple just releases without a schedule usually hit Thursday morning at midnight. So New Zealand gets them first.

The second thing, which was originally brought up, is that some games will be released only in specific... odd.... markets. Simpsons Tapped Out is probably the most famous example where it was available in Canada for MONTHS before released to the rest of the world. There are plenty others, but this was probably the most notable release just because of the popularity of the brand and that the game (for f2p) actually was good.

The rumor was that Hearthstone might be released as the latter. A limited "beta" only to Canada (and New Zealand?). It very well could be. I was just saying that would be odd because the normal reason for doing that isn't really needed for HS, an already established game.

Haines said:
I dont play MTG but I believe they can recoup some of that if they decide to get out right?
Click to expand...

Not really. MTGO is more of a PITA to cash out of than is worth it (short of just selling your account). And the physical game's market is one where largely the players have their decks built shortly after a new expansion. I suppose you could sell your entire collection to someone new coming in, but the market for that type of sale has to be incredibly small... Not to mention I could do the same thing here (granted losing/selling all of my CD keys and accounts in the process)
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
Hydranockz said:
Are you sure it has nothing to do with how Apple roll out their stuff? FTL just released on iPad today in NZ/AUS/China because of how the content is rolled out in stores. That game is expected to be available everywhere tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Time zones, that's all there to it really.
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
borghe said:
there are two things you are talking about. the first is just the midnight rollout. That's normal. Games that apple just releases without a schedule usually hit Thursday morning at midnight. So New Zealand gets them first.

The second thing, which was originally brought up, is that some games will be released only in specific... odd.... markets. Simpsons Tapped Out is probably the most famous example where it was available in Canada for MONTHS before released to the rest of the world. There are plenty others, but this was probably the most notable release just because of the popularity of the brand and that the game (for f2p) actually was good.

The rumor was that Hearthstone might be released as the latter. A limited "beta" only to Canada (and New Zealand?). It very well could be. I was just saying that would be odd because the normal reason for doing that isn't really needed for HS, an already established game.
Click to expand...

Ah right! Hah, I stand corrected.
 
E

Ennoia

Banned
Hydranockz said:
Are you sure it has nothing to do with how Apple roll out their stuff? FTL just released on iPad today in NZ/AUS/China because of how the content is rolled out in stores. That game is expected to be available everywhere tomorrow.
Click to expand...

God, thank you for telling me FTL is out, I don't need to sleep today for this.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
zoukka said:
Creating cards for HS takes way more resources than in other games. Voice acting and animation.
Click to expand...

Well, let's not kid ourselves here. The "animation" in HS cards is hardly something that requires an entire development team.

I think the bigger factor is that Blizzard doesn't know what they want to do with Hearthstone, as a card game, nor do they want to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. The current pool of cards more or less exhausts all the different mechanics they have in the game so far. They can print duplicate cards, for example, a 3/2 zombie, but would that be meaningful at all? In Magic, functional reprints work because creature types and mana cost/color matters, as well as rotation, but Hearthstone has none of that. They need to "go big" for their next expac or run the risk of release boring cards nobody asked for. An entire set of Silverback Patriarchs, imagine that.
 
centracore

centracore

Member
Does anyone know where the rumors about a possible limited launch in Canada originated from? As a Hearthstone player in Canada I'm ready to run out the door and buy an iPad Air..
 
Minsc

Minsc

Gold Member
Blizzard has said they have no intentions for any sort of iPad beta (well an open beta, they have had an internal closed one for a while now), so a limited launch sounds bogus to me.
 
B

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Haly said:
Well, let's not kid ourselves here. The "animation" in HS cards is hardly something that requires an entire development team.

I think the bigger factor is that Blizzard doesn't know what they want to do with Hearthstone, as a card game, nor do they want to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. The current pool of cards more or less exhausts all the different mechanics they have in the game so far. They can print duplicate cards, for example, a 3/2 zombie, but would that be meaningful at all? In Magic, functional reprints work because creature types and mana cost/color matters, as well as rotation, but Hearthstone has none of that. They need to "go big" for their next expac or run the risk of release boring cards nobody asked for. An entire set of Silverback Patriarchs, imagine that.
Click to expand...

technically, if they wanted, they could go the reprint route of Magic. Because Casual, Ranked, and Draft (Arena) is already a thing.. at some point they could ban cards from the launch Expert set (or even basic set I suppose, if replaced with new basic cards) and then have a new base set that is the only one allowed in Ranked (or drafted in Arena). It wouldn't really affect long time players up to the point that they couldn't use retired or revisioned cards in Ranked. Those who spent no money... well.. they spent zero dollars. Those of us who spent real money probably did so coming from other games that do the exact same thing already. This assures that new players coming in will always be able to remain competitive in ranked as their collection grows (and draft/arena will always be fair and current). At the same time your WHOLE collection will be usable and viewable in Casual.

I think the belief that "Blizz isn't quite sure what they want to do with this" hits the nail right on the head. I think the popularity of the game has seriously caught blizz by surprise. A side project meant to be highly profitable given the minimal investment, which ended up turning into a Top 5 title in both streaming and competitions. I don't think they've reacted to this yet, nor quite know how to. Hopefully they can do both before the opportunity slips through their grasp.
 
S

StMeph

Member
Haly said:
I think the bigger factor is that Blizzard doesn't know what they want to do with Hearthstone, as a card game, nor do they want to throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. The current pool of cards more or less exhausts all the different mechanics they have in the game so far. They can print duplicate cards, for example, a 3/2 zombie, but would that be meaningful at all? In Magic, functional reprints work because creature types and mana cost/color matters, as well as rotation, but Hearthstone has none of that. They need to "go big" for their next expac or run the risk of release boring cards nobody asked for. An entire set of Silverback Patriarchs, imagine that.
Click to expand...

Hearthstone needs new cards, but that's because everyone's been on the same Beta set for months. Online games tend to fly through metas, because the game is constantly being played at high levels around the world, and netdecking is extremely easy to do. Metas will be even faster once observing becomes a thing, because then there will be no secrets at all, ever.

Reprinting digital cards is easy. Give the card new art, so collecting both becomes a thing, but when the new card is in rotation, the old ones are legal to play again. But that won't need to happen until several expansions down the line, after the original sets have been long retired.

As for Hearthstone's direction, WOTC has tried to launch new games before, immediately hitting the ground running with heavy Organized Play support, replete with tournaments that paid in cash and prizes. It attracted the kind of hardcore crowd that they wanted, but the overall playerbase was too small. Magic grew organically before organized tournaments became the thing to strive for for serious players. (Yes, I'm still bitter about Dreamblade.)

Hearthstone can't be launched as an intentionally e-sports hardcore game. They tried that with SC2, trying to build the game that way from the ground up, compared to SC:BW, which also grew organically. Most gaming companies, Blizzard included, just doesn't have the balancing chops to do that. Grow the game first, make people want to play it, and play for fun. Then figure out the longevity, or organized tournaments/e-sports, or whatever sides of it.
 
C

Card Boy

Banned
Haly said:
The current pool of cards more or less exhausts all the different mechanics they have in the game so far.
Click to expand...

Current pool maybe (i still think there is heaps of cards they can add personally that doesn't add duplicates) but they have the WoW: TCG to rip off if they wanted to which they have already done for some cards.

The game can add a shit tone of new effects and shake up the meta. This was pulled from a google search on the first result (i don't like acouple of them);


  • Flying (Only creatures with flying or ranged can attack this minion)
  • Ranged (Allows a minion to target flying minions)
  • Piercing (Deals full damage to a minion and half that damage to the enemy hero)
  • Fixate (All minions must deal damage to this minion before any others, even those with taunt)
  • Volley (The minion deals it's damage split between all enemy minions, rounded up)
  • First Strike (Attacking minion deals it's damage before the defending minion does)
  • Poison(Minion deals it's damage at the end of each turn for X turns)
  • Spell Reflect (Minion targetted by spells or battlecrys takes that damage, then deals it back to it's source)
  • Sleep (Minion cannot attack or activate abilities untill the end of it's controllers next turn)
  • Consume (Minion destroys x amount of y minion type to obtain a buff/battlecry/ability - Think along the lines of Void Terror)
 
J

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
Usually you limited launch (in certain markets) to fine tune your retention and monetization, not as a beta test (it sort of is... but it's more targeted at the other side of it).

You launch in small markets that act like your big markets. Then you see how users do after you advertise it and such, and then tweak to ensure retention / monetization are there.

Unsure how that'd work here, as they already have a lot of those elements in place and it works on computers and I doubt they'd change the economy too much to work for iOS.

My guess is Blizz would want to go large and wide with this on day 1 for mobile/tablet.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
borghe said:
technically, if they wanted, they could go the reprint route of Magic. Because Casual, Ranked, and Draft (Arena) is already a thing.. at some point they could ban cards from the launch Expert set (or even basic set I suppose, if replaced with new basic cards) and then have a new base set that is the only one allowed in Ranked (or drafted in Arena).
Click to expand...
This would piss off a lot of players I imagine. It works for Magic because of the existence of multiple formats, and because the cards themselves are assets that can be bought and sold. The secondary market for Magic is huge. Hearthstone not only lacks a secondary market, but I don't think the Hearthstone devs want their game to end up in the same place as Magic either.
 
C

Card Boy

Banned
borghe said:
do we know how much of the WoW TCG team ended up on Hearthstone? Not counting raids or dungeons, WoW TCG was at around 3 sets a year through its entire life (including its first year). I would genuinely be shocked if Hearthstone ends up less than that.

FWIW, the first years of WoW TCG looked like

2006-2007
Heroes of Azeroth 380 cards
Through the Dark Portal 340 cards
Fires of Outland 249 cards

2007-2008
March of the Legion 338 cards
Shadow of the Betrayer 264 cards
The Hunt for Illidan 252 cards
Click to expand...

You made me look this up.

Sets

Heroes of Azeroth (released October 2006)
Through the Dark Portal (released April 2007)
Fires of Outland (released August 2007)
March of the Legion (released December 2007)
Servants of the Betrayer (released April 2008)
The Hunt for Illidan (released July 2008)
Drums of War (released November 2008)
Blood of Gladiators (released March 2009)
Fields of Honor (released June 2009)
Scourgewar (released November 2009)
Wrath Gate (released May 2010)
Archives (released August 2010 - foil reprints from Heroes of Azeroth to Fields of Honor)
Icecrown (released September 2010)
Worldbreaker (released December 2010)
War of the Elements (released April 2011)
Twilight of the Dragons (released July 2011)
Aftermath: Throne of the Tides (released October 2011)
Aftermath: Crown of the Heavens (released February 2012)
Aftermath: Tomb of the Forgotten (released June 2012)
Timewalkers: War of the Ancients (released October 2012)
Timewalkers: Betrayal of the Guardian (released February 2013)
Timewalkers: Reign of Fire (released July 2013)


Bonus sets

Periodically, bonus card sets are released independently to mark special events or dates.

Burning Crusade Set - A set of 3 cards to mark the release of World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade. Two Heroes of Azeroth starter decks were included alongside the exclusive cards.
Wrath of the Lich King Set - 2 exclusive cards were included in the Collector's Edition of WotLK with 2 March of the Legion starter decks.
Cataclysm Set - 2 exclusive cards were included in the Collector's Edition of Cataclysm with a starter deck and a Landro's Gift loot card.
Feast of Winter Veil - A special collector's set released in November 2007 which corresponds with the holiday in the online game. This comes in a presentation box which contains a booster pack from Heroes of Azeroth, Through the Dark Portal or Fires of Outland, a deck box and 10 Winter Veil themed cards, as well as 2 vanity pets.
Darkmoon Faire - A special collector's set released in September 2008 which includes 5 preset Darkmoon Faire themed cards and 2 Through the Dark Portal booster packs.
Arena Grand Melee - A small collector's set released to supplement the Arena theme. This was released with two decks, one for the Alliance and one for the Horde.


Why the heck did they discountinue it? it seemed like a success.
 
B

Bizazedo

Member
wakajawaka said:
Eu servers down, right?

I wanted to make a deck for my brand new Malygos :D

I know it was discussed before, but I was thinking ofr making a Druid deck around him, I guess is should be a late game one with lots of taunts and cheap spells.
Click to expand...

Priest deck can be fun with Malygos. Malygos and Velen so if one gets wrecked, always have the other. One Faceless, obviously.

Focus on surviving early on and then annihilate with Mind Blasts / ridiculous Holy Nova's / Holy Fire's / Smites' etc.

20 damage Mind Blasts are so much fun.

Gez said:
Why the heck did they discountinue it? it seemed like a success.
Click to expand...

Probably so they could make Hearthstone. They subcontracted for the real card game.
 
V

Veritas_

Member
ZZMitch said:
I love this view, because for me Priest is the most fun class to play as! I never really thought about how my opponent feels about it heh.
Click to expand...

Heh, well I'm glad you're having fun.

Granted I'm at a disadvantage for playing a free Mage deck, but it is what it is.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Why the heck did they discountinue it? it seemed like a success.
Click to expand...
Two reasons from what I can glean from a quick Google search:

1) Falling number of players/sales. It just wasn't doing all that well, and competitive card games have limited mindshare, like MMOs.

2) Blizzard wanted to get the license back from Cryptozoic. The WoW TCG wasn't being developed in house, so I guess they wanted to pave the way for the release of Hearthstone, a "card game" spinoff owned and managed wholly by Blizzard.
 
Minsc

Minsc

Gold Member
jstevenson said:
Usually you limited launch (in certain markets) to fine tune your retention and monetization, not as a beta test (it sort of is... but it's more targeted at the other side of it).

You launch in small markets that act like your big markets. Then you see how users do after you advertise it and such, and then tweak to ensure retention / monetization are there.

Unsure how that'd work here, as they already have a lot of those elements in place and it works on computers and I doubt they'd change the economy too much to work for iOS.

My guess is Blizz would want to go large and wide with this on day 1 for mobile/tablet.
Click to expand...

There's really nothing to monetize since accounts are cross-platform... they already have the prices in place. They aren't going to sell 7 packs for $10 on PC, and the same 7 packs for $5 on iOS, and have your accounts linked... it'd tank the PC sales, unless I'm mistaking what you mean.

Also, I think in order to be a featured app, you have to roll-out on the normal wednesday/thursday, if you do your own day, you miss out. So I'd expect a typical app release, because Apple would definitely feature Hearthstone on their front page of the app store, and that's some of the best advertising Blizzard could hope for.

Either way, Hearthstone will shoot up to the top spot in the free apps (for a little while anyway), so that's also very good free advertising.
 
J

jstevenson

Sailor Stevenson
Minsc said:
There's really nothing to monetize since accounts are cross-platform... they already have the prices in place. They aren't going to sell 7 packs for $10 on PC, and the same 7 packs for $5 on iOS, and have your accounts linked... it'd tank the PC sales, unless I'm mistaking what you mean.

Also, I think in order to be a featured app, you have to roll-out on the normal wednesday/thursday, if you do your own day, you miss out. So I'd expect a typical app release, because Apple would definitely feature Hearthstone on their front page of the app store, and that's some of the best advertising Blizzard could hope for.

Either way, Hearthstone will shoot up to the top spot in the free apps (for a little while anyway), so that's also very good free advertising.
Click to expand...

my point basically just was that the Blizzard/Hearthstone don't have any of the traditional reasons to do a limited (ie Hong Kong/New Zealand/Canada/Norway) release, and that I'd imagine they will go wide and on all stores on Day 1.
 
centracore

centracore

Member
http://www.hearthpwn.com/blue-tracker/topic/5842-hearthstonetm-ipad-rollout-begins

The Hearthstone iPad rollout begins: today, we’ve launched Hearthstone for iPad in Australia, Canada, and New Zealand, with other regions around the world to follow soon!

The iPad version of Hearthstone brings all of the features and excitement of deck-building and dueling your friends that’s currently available for PC right to your fingertips. Wherever you have an Internet connection, you can log in to Hearthstone and amass your card collection, play a friendly game or two against your buddies, or test your skills in Play or Arena mode!

Your Hearthstone collection and data is shared across all devices, so if you’re playing from your PC or Mac at home, you won’t miss a beat when you take Hearthstone on the go with the iPad!

Launching Hearthstone in a limited set of countries allows us to focus on the end-to-end player experience and make sure it’s awesome before we move on to the rest of the world. If you don’t live in Australia, Canada, or New Zealand, you don’t have much longer to wait to get your hands on Hearthstone for iPad—Murloc Scout’s honor.

Keep an eye on playhearthstone.com, Hearthstone on Facebook, and Hearthstone on Twitter for the latest news and rollout updates!

iPad is a registered trademark of Apple, Inc.
Click to expand...
 
O

OJdaKiller

Member
I've never bought a tablet but I want one for HS.

What would a good Ipad be to buy? I'd also like to try out PvZ 2...I want a decent sized screen but something that is comfortable to hold.

Which Ipad would people recommend?
 
X

Xater

Member
OJdaKiller said:
I've never bought a tablet but I want one for HS.

What would a good Ipad be to buy? I'd also like to try out PvZ 2...I want a decent sized screen but something that is comfortable to hold.

Which Ipad would people recommend?
Click to expand...

Unless you really want something smaller get the Air.
 
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