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Hearthstone |OT| Why tap cards when you can roll need [Naxx final wing out now]

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R

raiot

Member
Hi Guys!

I'm somewhat new to Hearthstone, but I play MTG casually sine 15 years, so I'm not a total newbie in CCGs.
I completed all Heroes to level 10 to unlock the specific cards and then bought a few packs.

I got myself some golden dupes, which gave me ca 800 dust.
I also got a golden Onyxia, a Jaraxxus, and a Prophet Valen.

Now I'm not sure where to continue... I think just want to compete a little on the ladder and play Arena whenever I got enough Gold. For this I need a Deck and I from what I read, the deck which is both cheap AND good is Warlock Zoo.

From what I read, gold Onyxia is a no brainer to disenchant, maybe Valen, too.

This would net me a Leeroy or a Thalnos and I think Leeroy would give me the most Bang for a Zoo Deck.
Any other suggestions?
 
C

Copenap

Member
raiot said:
Now I'm not sure where to continue... I think just want to compete a little on the ladder and play Arena whenever I got enough Gold. For this I need a Deck and I from what I read, the deck which is both cheap AND good is Warlock Zoo.

From what I read, gold Onyxia is a no brainer to disenchant, maybe Valen, too.

This would net me a Leeroy or a Thalnos and I think Leeroy would give me the most Bang for a Zoo Deck.
Any other suggestions?
Click to expand...
Leeroy isn't needed for a Zoo deck, might even be subobtimal, still a good card for lots of other decks though. Thalnos is good but not good enough to be one of the first crafts! For Zoo you don't need legendaries, Doomguards, Knife Juggler and other rares are way more important.

Zoo is a good way to start, you might also want to look into Trumps budget Mage and Shaman decks, should easily get you to rank 10ish and since you're an experienced ccg player probably even farther.
Edit: And with easily I mean the deck won't be the limiting factor but only the learning curve will be.
 
R

raiot

Member
So you don't think that Leeroy is a good first craft? I can craft the rest of the zoo rares without dusting legendarys. I would just dust my golden Onyxia and transform her into Leeroy...
 
C

Copenap

Member
raiot said:
So you don't think that Leeroy is a good first craft? I can craft the rest of the zoo rares without dusting legendarys. I would just dust my golden Onyxia and transform her into Leeroy...
Click to expand...
It is a reasonable first craft, just unnecessary for Zoo.
zoukka said:
Leeroy is one of the best value legendary if not the best. Craft away and it's great in zoo.
Click to expand...
He is one of the best, just not needed in a Zoo deck. Of course it's just up to personal taste if you want to include him for some extra burst though that isn't normally needed in a Zoo deck.
 
Minsc

Minsc

Gold Member
Fought a zoo Warlock, was doing exceptionally well (held on to 30 life for very long) had him down to 15 health when he starts gaining board control followed by getting the world's best top decks, an empty hand and draws a soulfire to clear my Azure Drake, leaving him no threats on the board, then top decks a Doomguard with the warlock power, crazy luck, able to avoid discarding three cards, out of two drawn. He had 7 mana that turn too, so he had the perfect amount to play the Doomguard and run it to the face.

Turn 8 for me I plop down Rag, and it hits his Leper Gnome, doing 2 damage back to me and little else, but anything else I could play would just die to the Doomguard or 1-2 minions and he'd continue asserting more and more control of the board. Now he's at 13 since he uses his power again on his turn 8, runs ~20 damage to my face with his ~5 minion on the board, and my lone Rag is probably eyeing his Harvest Golem next.

Turn 9 it's my turn to top-deck. :) Get my Earthshock, zap Rag, windfury him, and steal the game back. At least there's never a dull moment when playing the Zoo deck.
 
D

depward

Member
Whatever happened to people figuring out their own decks? Why must everyone go online and find preconstructed ones. How is this fun for those that do it?
 
M

Mistouze

user-friendly man-cashews
depward said:
Whatever happened to people figuring out their own decks? Why must everyone go online and find preconstructed ones. How is this fun for those that do it?
Click to expand...
You don't always have the time to study what the metagame is about so that helps.

Actually figuring out how to play a deck you know is getting good results with other players is fun.

Easy way to get a base deck to iterate on to make your own.
 
S

Scratch

Member
yaaaay!

WWROnYG.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Copenap said:
It is a reasonable first craft, just unnecessary for Zoo.

He is one of the best, just not needed in a Zoo deck. Of course it's just up to personal taste if you want to include him for some extra burst though that isn't normally needed in a Zoo deck.
Click to expand...

Care to elaborate? I think Leeroy is a must include in every aggressive deck, because there's nothing better to add instead.
 
R

raiot

Member
So... I sold my Onyxia, bought a Leeroy and he just gave me my first win in the first ranked Game! :D

My Opponent was at 15, had 5 minions on board after wiping my board the turn before.
I had: Soulfire, Soulfire, Leeroy, Power Overwhelming.
Life tap -> Shattered Sun Cleric
Leeroy, Shattered Sun cleric, power overwhelming -> Attack
Soulfire

Feels good! :)
 
C

Copenap

Member
zoukka said:
Care to elaborate? I think Leeroy is a must include in every aggressive deck, because there's nothing better to add instead.
Click to expand...
Zoo is a board control deck. I'm sure there are people running Leeroy in their Zoo deck but there isn't any synergy with the other cards and it's somewhat awkward. Afaik despite Reynad modifying the deck now and then I don't think he has ever run a Leeroy in it.

And regarding "there is nothing better to add". You don't have to add anything, the Zoo deck is already running 30 cards and you would have to take another card out that is synergising with the deck as opposed to Leeroy.
 
T

Tarazet

Member
I played against a nuke Mage yesterday.. when you don't play against something like that for a while you forget how much reach that class actually has. It's been a long while since I got finished off by a Pyroblast.
 
P

partyphone

Banned
reynad dropped the argent commanders in favor of darkiron dwarves. which makes a lot of sense. commanders are great but they're expensive and you already have doomguard.

i think mukla would be a higher priority legendary for the deck than leeroy.


Tarazet said:
I played against a nuke Mage yesterday.. when you don't play against something like that for a while you forget how much reach that class actually has. It's been a long while since I got finished off by a Pyroblast.
Click to expand...

i rebuilt my burn mage deck yesterday because i wanted to see how it did against all the lifecoach hunter and warlock zoo decks that have infested ranked. it does pretty okay. bonus that it's really good in slow matchups. always fun making handlocks overdraw when you throw down that murloc.
 
C

CoolOff

Member
Man, I actually want Mukla pretty badly. Will still have to prioritize getting Ysera over him I think, and Al-Akir to a certain extent since I play so much Shaman.

Just drafted Grommash in Arena, should be auto-12 right?
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Copenap said:
Zoo is a board control deck. I'm sure there are people running Leeroy in their Zoo deck but there isn't any synergy with the other cards and it's somewhat awkward. Afaik despite Reynad modifying the deck now and then I don't think he has ever run a Leeroy in it.

And regarding "there is nothing better to add". You don't have to add anything, the Zoo deck is already running 30 cards and you would have to take another card out that is synergising with the deck as opposed to Leeroy.
Click to expand...

Ok so this was just an issue with terms, I thought zoo referenced the warlock rush deck.
 
P

partyphone

Banned
CoolOff said:
Man, I actually want Mukla pretty badly. Will still have to prioritize getting Ysera over him I think, and Al-Akir to a certain extent since I play so much Shaman.
Click to expand...

mukla is fun but not good in many decks. i'd say he's even questionable in zoo and that new hunter deck. general advice for anyone would be to go for cards like leeroy, cairne and thalnos before investing in more marginal cards like mukla or malygos.

Just drafted Grommash in Arena, should be auto-12 right?
Click to expand...

depends on the shell you have around him and if you have a good enabler. but he'll definitely give you a lot of reach at the end of the game if you're able to maintain board control.
 
X

Xater

Member
Lyng said:
Netrunner is also the best example why that model works. Also Netrunner is insanely well balanced. Especially considering they dont have the luxury of beeing able to change cards.
Click to expand...

Netrunner is a fantastic game. I just don't have anyone to play with. That#s why I am so much into the idea of digital CCGs. I wish we could get something that felt more like a Netrunner.
 
L

Lyng

Member
Xater said:
Netrunner is a fantastic game. I just don't have anyone to play with. That#s why I am so much into the idea of digital CCGs. I wish we could get something that felt more like a Netrunner.
Click to expand...

You can play Netrunner on Octagon but it's sub optimal imo.
If FF decided to get Netrunner properly made into digital I would switch completely to that. I am in the same boat as you missing people to play with. My girlfriend loves Hearthstone but sadly not Netrunner.
 
N

Neki

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
I think it looks like a midrange lock deck. I've run midrange before and it is pretty good. It has potential. I think his deck has a low curve, doesn't make it aggro though. In fact, zoolock is a board control deck with a low curve in the first place. Not aggro.
Click to expand...
Acolytes don't really belong in an a warlock deck because there is no innate synergy like mage or warrior. Shadow flame doesn't really work in this deck because the only two big minions he has is Leeroy and argent commander. It's a really poor board clear since it's either gonna take two turns relying on four attack creatures to survive, or it will be a turn 8 play. The bane of doom and leper gnome also make zero sense in a mid range deck. When someone says mid range, I think yetis and drakes, not weeny two drops
 
C

CoolOff

Member
partyphone said:
mukla is fun but not good in many decks. i'd say he's even questionable in zoo and that new hunter deck. general advice for anyone would be to go for cards like leeroy, cairne and thalnos before investing in more marginal cards like mukla or malygos.
Click to expand...

Well, I already have those 3. :p
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Flamestrike #1: Knew it.

Flamestrike #1: Anticipated it.

Flamestrike #1: Kinda feared it would happen.

Flamestrike #1: Got completely wiped by it.

Flamestrike #1: Stared blankly at my screen.
 
B

blackflag

Member
depward said:
Whatever happened to people figuring out their own decks? Why must everyone go online and find preconstructed ones. How is this fun for those that do it?
Click to expand...

What do you mean whatever happened to?20 years ago in competitive MTG it was the same thing. It always will be.
 
S

SteveWD40

Member
depward said:
Whatever happened to people figuring out their own decks? Why must everyone go online and find preconstructed ones. How is this fun for those that do it?
Click to expand...

I am stubborn, I insist on making decks with themes that fir the hero / synergy (feral Druid, Shadow Priest, Prot Paladin etc...), I will never break rank 10 (my best) but I don't really care, it's more fun for me. (plus the Arena is the real game until PVE hits).
 
P

partyphone

Banned
blackflag said:
What do you mean whatever happened to?20 years ago in competitive MTG it was the same thing. It always will be.
Click to expand...

Yep! Also, since there are very few cards and you can only have 30 in your deck a lot of people are going to independently come to very similar conclusions.
 
X

Xater

Member
Lyng said:
You can play Netrunner on Octagon but it's sub optimal imo.
If FF decided to get Netrunner properly made into digital I would switch completely to that. I am in the same boat as you missing people to play with. My girlfriend loves Hearthstone but sadly not Netrunner.
Click to expand...

I tried Octagon but it's really not a great way to play.
 
I

inky

Member
partyphone said:
Yep! Also, since there are very few cards and you can only have 30 in your deck a lot of people are going to independently come to very similar conclusions.
Click to expand...

Yup. I made my Spell Druid when I got Malygos and when checking for some decks online to fine tune it pretty much turned out to be the same thing as others had come up with. Most of it is common sense due to how cards work with each other and with hero abilities.

Plus, there's the undeniable fact that some decks just work better than others, for as fun or unfun they can be.
 
B

blackflag

Member
Think of it this way...

You want to build a slow control deck that controls tempo then finished off opponent really late game.

Hmmm warriors good for that.

Ok what are the good minions that would synergize. Well this one gives me armor if it's damaged, this one gives me cards if it's damaged, those go well with whirlwind. Ok how about removal? Well it's obvious what the best warrior removal is, and the best weapons to use, ok how to end the game? Big fatty legendaries that can finish things up.

Congrats you independently came up with basically the same control warrior deck as everyone else would have.
 
S

scy

Member
Basically. Around 20-ish cards end up being core to many decks so innovation tends to be in the tech choices of the deck. Which is based entirely around the meta.

Chances are highly likely that your homebrew won't shake the meta. That doesn't mean it's not worth trying or anything but just that avoiding coming to the same conclusions in your deck construction as a popular deck doesn't really make a lot of sense.
 
P

Professor Lich

Member
Just going to throw in my two cents as an example here. I run the Miracle Rogue deck and I have all the cards for it. However, I've switched out two cards. I think the normal Miracle Rogue runs two Coldlight draws and a Nat Pagel. (Maybe even after the Nerf, I haven't found a really recent deck. The best I can find is April 1st.) Anyway, for one, I don't have Nat, and with two Coldlights, I felt like I was drawing to much. I switched in a Perdition's Blade and an Arcane Golem. The blade is mainly for removal and the golem is just to have another possible win state use / get pressure on the board. I'm not legend, but it's been working alright for the most part. However, 99.9% of my deck is the exact same as other Miracle rogues because that is what works.

I feel that even if you theory crafted your ass off, or whatever you do, you're going to end up with similar decks as other people because good cards are good cards, and as other people have said, the cores of decks and classes don't really change.

However, that being said, I don't remember Hand Lock ever being used in the beta before release. I feel that came to light after the game went live. I can't say I'm 100% on this though, I haven't really payed that much attention.
 
S

scy

Member
I think almost all Miracle lists cut Pagle and Oracle and now just have an extra set of threats so it's not 100% reliant on VC or Leeroy. This is usually in the form of two of the following: Assassin's Blade, Mana Addict, or Questing Adventurer.

Edit: For ladder, that is.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
People are running too many oozes these days for me to consider Assassin's blade. Hell, I get nervous if I pass the turn with a Deadly Poison'd dagger.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
Haly said:
People are running too many oozes these days for me to consider Assassin's blade. Hell, I get nervous if I pass the turn with a Deadly Poison'd dagger.
Click to expand...

It's actually part of the reason why I don't carry deadly on my miracle at all, even though it's low cost.
 
B

blackflag

Member
arimanius said:
Best thing I did was make a Canadian account. I didn't like this game on the PC but for some reason I love it on the Ipad. Must be the convenience factor of it.
Click to expand...

same, I mean I liked the game but after 8-10 hours of working in front of one, the last thing I'm doing is sitting in front of another traditional computer or laptop.

Waiting for Card Hunters to be ported as well.
 
R

RumblingRosco

Member
Haly said:
People are running too many oozes these days for me to consider Assassin's blade. Hell, I get nervous if I pass the turn with a Deadly Poison'd dagger.
Click to expand...

When I get pissed at weapon decks, sometimes I run two Bloodsail Corsairs, two Ooze, and Harrison Jones. Sometimes I add in a few Brewmasters to bounce back the previously mentioned. Just to hard stop weapon-based decks. Fails miserably often, but it feels great when it works.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
I hate handlooock. It (mostly) counters miracle pretty hard... So the Warlock has me down to 4HP, three giants up... I managed to get rid of all 3, bring him down to 10 HP, leeroy in hand... bastard Leeroy's me first T_T so close.
 
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