What? Hellfire, Explosive Shot, Swipe, Flamestrike, pretty much any 4+ drop, 2 drop+hero power.
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Hearthstone |OT3| Preparing for the Ball of Spiders Meta
- Thread starter ZealousD
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What? Hellfire, Explosive Shot, Swipe, Flamestrike, pretty much any 4+ drop, 2 drop+hero power.
Why does he need to be handled 1-for-1?
And as I said those are 6 mana cards, not 7 mana.
Things like Ragnaros "never" get 1-for-1 either, he always does something even if he gets BGH (unless you are counting things like dealing 8 damage to an imp).
You can hex an ysera but she already drew a card.
Alextraza already took away half of your HP.
But here are 7-mana cards as examples:
Antonidas already put x amount of fireballs in the mages hands.
Ancient of lore already drew 2 cards.
Same thing for neptulon (although the overload sucks).
Being hard to remove and not being answered 1-for-1 don't make the card OP.
Now please guys forget all this Dr. Balanced nonsense and focus on the real bad guy we should hate.
Motherfucking MAD SCIENTIST. (please you guys are not gonna say that he isn't OP because he can be 1-for-1 by owl right?)
call_kotaku
Member
trying to learn handlock, it's trickier than it seems
edit: also, I'm apparently friends with Noxious who's a streamer, but I have no idea how. He doesn't use this forum, does he? It's the one place I put a friend code
edit: also, I'm apparently friends with Noxious who's a streamer, but I have no idea how. He doesn't use this forum, does he? It's the one place I put a friend code
Super Nothing
Member
Most people think that both Mad Scientist AND Dr. Boom are OP. It's not a contest between the two.
Haunted
Member
I was obviously joking.
That said, if you spend any of these premium board clears on a fucking Razorfen Hunter and Boar, I'd be totally fine with that.
RumblingRosco
Member
Bump Boom up to 8 mana. A single mana increase is significant.
That's... what everyone has been saying. If you even have to say something like that to begin with then you are admitting the card is over powered.
Mind you now we are getting into the nitty gritty of over powered vs over powered to the point of requiring a change.
I think most people would agree that the card is plain over powered especially when you break down cards into 3 tiers:
Overpowered (used in almost every single deck that accommodates it at high level)
Balanced (occasionally used in some decks at high level play)
Underpowered (almost never used in a deck at high level play)
By this definition, Dr Balanced is 100% over powered. It is used in too many decks for that not to be true. Not only is he used in many decks, he is used in many DIFFERENT types of deck. That is much more dangerous than just being common in a certain archetype of a deck... when you are seeing Dr Balanced in aggro, midrange, combo and control decks then you have a problem.
A balanced card is Healbot. It gets used in some decks but it's not used in every single deck archetype. It's also subject to meta game changes. Dr Balanced on the other hand would be strong no matter what meta the game is in currently.
You can use more metrics but I doubt people have stats on this. You can compare win rates of playing Dr Balanced vs playing something else on curve. You can compare decks with and without Dr Balanced. This is one of the things that Blizzard uses internally as a metric. Of course Blizzard has admitted that Dr Balanced is a strong card and is used a lot in addition to changing their mantra to change cards to "we don't like to nerf cards because people get upset when they work towards a card and its changed plus we don't want to make it hard for people getting back into the game". At this point they are basically skirting around the point on the power level of Dr Balanced which they clearly know is over powered.
Now that we can say this card is over powered... is it over powered to justify a nerf? This is where I think a lot of people are split on and that's fine. A card has to be damn near broken (or actually broken) for many people to agree that it's over powered to the point of needing a change. If I had to make a list of top 2 cards that need to be changed in Hearthstone it's Dr Balanced and Mad Scientist. Mad Scientist is over powered in its own way and you could make the argument that he is more over powered than Dr Balanced because he is used in 100% of decks in classes with good secrets (so basically Mage and Hunter because Paladin secrets are ass as they are 1 drops). Besides it's not a contest between these two cards and we have to pick between these two cards to get changed. Fact of the matter is Mad Scientist nerf would specifically target 2 classes where as Dr Balanced impacts all classes so a Mad Scientist is more dangerous.
Beyond these cards the only other cards that are over powered are class cards but class cards have their own tier of balancing. People say Blastmage is over powered when compared to Blackwing Corruptor but they forget that Blastmage is a class card and Corruptor isn't. Class minions are over tuned on purpose when compared to their analogues in the neutral.
At 9 mana Dr Balanced would be unusable (and at that point he would be renamed to Dr Bastard).
At 8 mana he would only get used in control decks and at that point there would be a choice between him and Ragnaros. In a more Zoolock type meta, Dr Balanced would get used more but in more control heavy big minions vs big minions meta Ragnaros would get used. And that would be fine. It would also free up the 7 mana for Troggzor to be usable.
Although for a card to have its cost increase by 1 it would have to be severely over powered. Most people's suggested change to Dr Balanced involves shaving a damage point off of the Bots not increase its mana cost. there are different degrees of being over poweredness.
A generally good indicator of how efficient a card is is to talk about how it trades with other cards. Whirlwind is an awful trade with an 8/8, but an excellent trade with 5x 2/1s. It's a card that has weaknesses and strengths, which is appropriate.
A card that literally cannot do worse than 2-for-1 trade while still doing 2-10 damage even if it dies is an extremely efficient card.
It's why I gave the example of ragnaros.
Right, killing a 1/1 imp or hitting your face and then being polymorphed or mind controlled is effectively 1-for-1 for 8 mana.
Here's a great way to look at this from a player who plays lots of Priest; I will MC a Ragnaros in a heartbeat because it's an instant, clear swing in my favor. By contrast, I am highly reluctant to MC a Dr. Boom because it's actually quite likely that I can use my 10 mana card and all that happens is that he trades his boom bots in to it and it dies. I don't get all of Dr. Boom when I MC him -- it is specifically the fact that Dr. Boom is really 3 creatures at once that is the problem.
Ysera is the closest comparison to Boom I can think of. Ysera costs 9 mana.
This right here. Ragnaros is WAY easier to remove than Dr Balanced in almost every situation. Not only that but when you look at trading your minions into Dr Balanced it becomes even more in favor of Dr Balanced because not only do you have to trade into a 7/7 body but two 1/1 bodies with deathrattle that can potentially kill off a 4-5 health creature EACH.
If we have really come to the point of comparing Dr Balanced to Ysera and Alexstraza (fucking 9 mana cost cards) then we should just admit that the card is broken as hell.
Before NA?? Damn EU getting revenge for getting BRM late!
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I haven't logged into EU in so long I got 2 free packs from that thing that happened a while ago.
Boom is pure value. Just add up his stats. 7/7 + 1/1 + 1/1 + 1 to 4/0 + 1 to 4/0. 11 to 17/9. 7 mana for a 15/9 stats spread across 3 bodies is pretty damn good.
Grim Patron Warrior will be nerfed. I think the deck has two targets on it.
Grim Patron Warrior will be nerfed. I think the deck has two targets on it.
- They can draw into huge combos too easily right now. The cards they use as draw engines are too cheap and have no down sides within the deck. I would expect Battle Rage to increase in cost or for it to be changed to match Kibler's idea where it only counts damaged minions for drawing.
- Frothing Berserker combos punishes you too hard for playing more than 3 minions. Frothing berserker could be changed to only increase it's attack when friendly minions take damage, acting like an armor smith. The card would still have value in the deck, but the 30+ damage combo potential would be dead.
I think the only change that is fine on Grim Patron decks is that Battle Rage shouldn't apply to damaged characters (ie the Warrior himself). The situation Kibler described where the Warrior doesn't want to armor is up is exactly the non intuitive play that Blizzard wants to avoid. Having one less draw or not having a way to cycle the card every time is already a huge nerf to the deck which is so reliant on card draw.
I like that Grim Patron can wreck decks that flood the board with weak creatures. It makes the control option stronger against Grim Patron like Control Warrior and Handlock which is fine to me. I also think the high skill requirement and the long animations are a stealth balance element to the deck that keeps it non broken.
I like that Grim Patron can wreck decks that flood the board with weak creatures. It makes the control option stronger against Grim Patron like Control Warrior and Handlock which is fine to me. I also think the high skill requirement and the long animations are a stealth balance element to the deck that keeps it non broken.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Nefarian seems OP as hell lol. I mean compared to ragnaros.
Others seem to strongly disagree, so I think the answer is that it depends on your draw.
iNvid02
Member
lol not nice, nefarian is recking it for me
Yeah. Maybe it depends on what kind of cards you pull with Nef's hero power? I dunno. I won fairly easily as Rag.
Star Falcon
Member
Yeah that was kinda lame. Did 3 games got bored.
Yup, hes just swarming you, and rag cant do shit since most cards in his deck start at 4 mana.
daemissary
Member
They have no plans to charge for it.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Playing Nefarian feels like this:
Playing Ragnaros feels like this:
Playing Ragnaros feels like this:
iNvid02
Member
wait there is a better strategy, if you get rag quit
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