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Hearthstone |OT3| Preparing for the Ball of Spiders Meta

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V

ViviOggi

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Why is that even important? You're not playing cairne to break through taunts. You're playing it for how difficult it is to remove efficiently. Sky golem isn't even going to survive a round to take care of a sludge belcher (not to mention, even if it does, you have to remove the 1/2 or you lose your golem anyway, meaning sky golem is not cleanly killing belcher regardless). The type of deck that has a choice between these cards aren't benefited from higher attack more than they are benefitted from higher hp. If we're talking about a mech deck, the preferred choice is clear. Outside of that, cairne is a much stickier minion that is much more consistently going to do what you want, creating a board presence that is hard to remove efficiently.

The main reason cairne or sky golem isn't played, and even sylvanas to a certain extent, anymore is because they are too slow to impact a game you're behind in and lacking in versatility in games when you are even ahead. If you're ahead, your main goal is often to stop their strongest chance to win, which is usually some form of burst damage. These minions don't do that, therefore they've been cut for cards that do do that, like shieldmaiden for example. Even ET is going to help accelerate a win, reducing the chances they can get to their win condition.

As much as I like to run cards that work well into the attrition game plan, most top decks, especially in this meta, have much much faster gameplans and have no room for high value slow sticky 6 drops. And it has been this way since miracle rogue pre-naxx, almost consistently after the meta has "settled". So I think their decline has little to do with new cards but more of how people have approached the game on a more aggressive strategic level than anything else. And the control decks that might have ran these cards in the past have opted for cards that work to beat that aggressive strategy.
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Sludge and Loatheb are still the most important factors in Cairne's decline, I don't understand how you could think that wasn't important. Loatheb kills Cairne entirely while Belcher eats the first half and then leaves a Slime behind, effectively stopping Cairne for three whole turns. And most importantly they cost 5 mana, so they will be able to attack once Cairne hits the board. Like it or not, you'll have to go through that Belcher which means a massive tempo loss, burn resources like Prep+Sap or not play Cairne at all.
 
S

scoot3r

Member
If you're playing midrange then no it's a huge tempo swing at times. If you're playing aggro throw in a couple of snake traps, more damage than explosive and helps activate kill command.
 
O

Officerrob

Banned
Holy hell, this thread has died. Tavern Brawl week 1 was a massive flop in my eyes, hopefully they are getting ready to tease the next round of cards
 
J

JesseZao

Member
Officerrob said:
Holy hell, this thread has died. Tavern Brawl week 1 was a massive flop in my eyes, hopefully they are getting ready to tease the next round of cards
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Not much to talk about. Meta is mostly sorted and not much to say other than which cards you got or will craft next.

Won't be much buzz until there is an interesting brawl challenge or the next expansion/content is teased.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
ViviOggi said:
Sludge and Loatheb are still the most important factors in Cairne's decline, I don't understand how you could think that wasn't important. Loatheb kills Cairne entirely while Belcher eats the first half and then leaves a Slime behind, effectively stopping Cairne for three whole turns. And most importantly they cost 5 mana, so they will be able to attack once Cairne hits the board. Like it or not, you'll have to go through that Belcher which means a massive tempo loss, burn resources like Prep+Sap or not play Cairne at all.
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Cairne is not a card used in tempo based decks anyway. As I said, I am talking about decks where you would choose either cairne or sky golem.

I don't think belcher is a reason to not run cairne nor even close to as influential as how the game meta changed. Gotta remember, cairne hasn't been a big factor in the game since even before naxx. So again, belcher impact on a card already being pushed/already pushed out... doesn't factor in. I also think that is a bit far fetched to think cairne is bad just because it takes 3 hits to kill a belcher. Again, your deck is not tempo based if you're running cairne, and you're looking at that scenario in a vacuum which is really unrealistic.

Back in the pre-naxx miracle days, you didn't want to run high value slow impact cards like cairne since sap exists. However, back then a lot of people held delusions about how strong certain cards were as well. I remember a lot of people saying cairne is the best/top neutral legendary in the game. I always laughed at that, seeing that the card was well overrated outside of specific decks like control warrior, who exchanged for shield maiden (another thing I predicted and a lot of people were like, why shieldmaiden over sylvanas/cairne).

Since naxx, we have seen some slower metas. But, most of the time cairne is just too slow. It has no immediate value in a part of the game where you want immediate value, bigger windows of opportunity where it is great, and more scenarios where it is great (as well as synergy). These things are true regardless of loatheb or belcher (which I still don't even ascribe to being unfavorable scenarios because dealing 1 additional damage is easy).
 
X

Xanathus

Member
Don't know if it's just random luck or whatever but arena seems easier these days, the decks I'm facing at 7 - 12 wins don't seem to be that crazy compared to when GvG came out and more people were playing arena.
 
G

gutshot

Member
I only started playing around the time Naxx released and Cairne was still a fairly common card then. Every Control Warrior was running it, for example. Maybe prior to that it was even more ubiquitous but it still had its place in the post-Naxx meta. It wasn't until the release of GvG that it completely disappeared and I think the main thing that forced it out was not Sky Golem but Shieldmaiden.
 
X

Xanathus

Member
Cairne was played in Control Warrior as silence/removal bait but now there are way too many better cards to play in that mana range like Emperor and Shieldmaidens and the 4 attack does nothing. It basically just a casualty of the power creep like War Golem and Magma Rager.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Xanathus said:
Cairne was played in Control Warrior as silence/removal bait but now there are way too many better cards to play in that mana range like Emperor and Shieldmaidens and the 4 attack does nothing. It basically just a casualty of the power creep like War Golem and Magma Rager.
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Come on man Magma Rager was NEVER even decent!
 
V

Vex_

Banned
I'm finding that my secrets mage deck is winning not because of the actual secret played, but rather how it breaks up my opponents flow.

They don't want to play anything too good for fear of mirrors (or other secret shenanigans vaporize, etc). They don't want to play anything too weak or they risk losing board control and I bust out echos.

#Mindgames. Familiar to someone from the fgc. Game is good fun.
 
J

JSR_Cube

Member
I feel that my enjoyment in HS has increased significantly in the past week by simply squelching everyone immediately. I would love an auto-squelch.

I was also wondering if Blizzard will every put a rematch option, at least in casual.
 
R

Raxus

Member
JSR_Cube said:
I feel that my enjoyment in HS has increased significantly in the past week by simply squelching everyone immediately. I would love an auto-squelch.

I was also wondering if Blizzard will every put a rematch option, at least in casual.
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The former really should be on their already limited option list already.

The ladder is unnecessary since it just slows down the pace of the game. I like finding a match quitting and finding another opponent immediately.
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
6-2

paladin with a fucking pathetically insane draft including boom on non-legendary day

finally claw my way back into the game because he's an utter trash facelord player

topdicks mc tech
hearthstonescreenshotp0q78.png
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fuck this piece of shit game
 
C

cHinzo

Member
ViviOggi said:
6-2

paladin with a fucking pathetically insane draft including boom on non-legendary day

finally claw my way back into the game because he's an utter trash facelord player

topdicks mc tech


fuck this piece of shit game
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Ouch! Haven't u played enough games to not be upset about this though? :d This shit happens. 6 wins is still great. Would be awful if u drafted the best deck ever and went 0-3.

I was 5-2 yesterday with my triple Flamestrike mage deck. I had 2 big minions on the board, flamestrike and some big minions in hand, 30 HP vs 19 HP and 4 low health minions and only 1 card left in the hand. I was playing Flamestrike to clear his whole board and set myself up for lethal, until... the game froze. -_- I restarted the client but they didn't find my game and my arena was still 5-2. So I queued up for another game and it said there was an issue synching with battle.net. Relogged again and they handed me my third loss lol.

Oh well, drafted a Priest deck now without any big removals this time. They didn't give me Shadow Word cards or Velen's Chosen cards T_T. Gonne be hard.
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
cHinzo said:
Ouch! Haven't u played enough games to not be upset about this though? :d This shit happens. 6 wins is still great. Would be awful if u drafted the best deck ever and went 0-3.

I was 5-2 yesterday with my triple Flamestrike mage deck. I had 2 big minions on the board, flamestrike and some big minions in hand, 30 HP vs 19 HP and 4 low health minions and only 1 card left in the hand. I was playing Flamestrike to clear his whole board and set myself up for lethal, until... the game froze. -_- I restarted the client but they didn't find my game and my arena was still 5-2. So I queued up for another game and it said there was an issue synching with battle.net. Relogged again and they handed me my third loss lol.

Oh well, drafted a Priest deck now without any big removals this time. They didn't give me Shadow Word cards or Velen's Chosen cards T_T. Gonne be hard.
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Only the few chosen ones like Kolento-senpai can ever become immune to the salt

It was actually an insane draft, almost guaranteed 10+ wins, but there's little you can do when you run into a perfectly curving Dragon Paladin while drawing the entire 5+cc third of your deck and then a 4-for-1 Boom drop into the most bullshit MCT topdick in history
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
It's interesting how modern Blizzard is all like "fun for everyone - no toxicity allowed" with no chat and whatnot but then they can't design a single character that isn't a grim, smug edgelord

Judging by the cards Warcraft artists are forbidden to draw genuine smiles, even the shittiest joke units have either a mean/super serious face or an infinitely punchable grin
 
S

Sande

Member
I think I like priest in arena. I've picked priest twice so far and got to 8 and 9 wins. Neither of those decks were anything special, a lot of strong cards but no legendaries or anything. With other classes my best so far is 7.

I feel kind of stupid for not playing much arena earlier. I'm averaging 4-5 wins and enjoy playing it more than constructed.
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
Won 2 games with Mech Hunter and bought a pack
wet2P5x.jpg

okay this is gonna be good or not haha

LZuPWup.jpg

My first Gold Legend. And the narrator says, "Whaaaaat!? GOLD LEGENDARY!" That's awesome xD
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
That's the definitive golden legendary to have for sure, and if he gets nerfed you'll get enough dust for two

Although at this point it looks more like they'll power creep the 7cc slot to hell and back next expansion rather than touching Boom
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
ViviOggi said:
That's the definitive golden legendary to have for sure, and if he gets nerfed you'll get enough dust for two

Although at this point it looks more like they'll power creep the 7cc slot to hell and back next expansion rather than touching Boom
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I've got two Dr. Boom now and thinking of keeping this or dusting it. Idk. Probably not.
 
L

luoapp

Member
TimeEffect said:
Anyone have any idea how 2v2 will work when implemented? It sounds neat, but Im not sure how it will be balanced.
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It's pretty clear by now that the only mode the put some effort in balancing is constructed, less so in arena, brawl ( or the 2v2) is just "let's have some fun" mode.
 
Minsc

Minsc

Gold Member
Duels (MtG) will have 2 headed giant in it, and I guess eventually be on phones (as well as probably more modes), as that's the natural progression from Tablets and it seems to me a lot more money is in the market for universal apps than just tablet ones. Even if it's never made officially for phones, it's not like that kept people from playing Hearthstone on phones.

Still, it probably isn't in the plans for Hearthstone though it would be a lot more fun it there were some kind of 2v1 or new mode besides 1v1.
 
M

Magnus

Member
Medivh's the first one I'm super-tempted by. For anyone who really invests a lot of time into the game (30-60 mins a day or more), A DLC-cost really isn't THAT bad to essentially 'role play' as a new favourite character, even if it's not going to functionally affect the game in any new way. $10 is a bit high for sure....$5 would have gotten a lot more impulse buys I think, but they've clearly done their marketing research to show that $10 is probably the sweet spot for the greatest revenue.

I'm definitely in at $10 (I know, lol) if a totally treasured character comes along for one of the other classes. If they launch a Kil'jaeden or Archimonde as a new Warlock, or Velen as a new priest or something, I'd probably bite.

I'm kind of sad that the likely second priest hero will probably be Tyrande. Can't stand that insipid voice. Maybe they'll go with a Troll/voodoo-type of priest and continue in the vein of Vol'jin. Maybe Zabra?
 
J

JesseZao

Member
Magnus said:
Medivh's the first one I'm super-tempted by. For anyone who really invests a lot of time into the game (30-60 mins a day or more), A DLC-cost really isn't THAT bad to essentially 'role play' as a new favourite character, even if it's not going to functionally affect the game in any new way. $10 is a bit high for sure....$5 would have gotten a lot more impulse buys I think, but they've clearly done their marketing research to show that $10 is probably the sweet spot for the greatest revenue.

I'm definitely in at $10 (I know, lol) if a totally treasured character comes along for one of the other classes. If they launch a Kil'jaeden or Archimonde as a new Warlock, or Velen as a new priest or something, I'd probably bite.

I'm kind of sad that the likely second priest hero will probably be Tyrande. Can't stand that insipid voice. Maybe they'll go with a Troll/voodoo-type of priest and continue in the vein of Vol'jin. Maybe Zabra?
Click to expand...

I figure they keep the general horde/alliance alt thing going. I just hope they have good voice acting for the next ones. 2/3 isn't bad so far though.
 
T

TetraxShards

Member
That feel when the Priest gets a Mal'Ganis from Thoughtsteal, then MCs your own Mal'Ganis, and has the nerve to call you cheap when you beat them.

Might be time for a break!
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
Ketch said:
Thinking about spending money on this game For the first time, any tips to get the most bang for my buck?
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Buy Naxx then if you want to spend more buy BRM

The adventures are the best thing to spend money on in this game by a country mile due to their $/gold pricing
 
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