I'm using them in my dragon controlish priest deck. It works well mostly but has also screwed me a couple times. The deck requires board presence otherwise it can get hurt pretty good by any decently-sized minions, especially if they pop out early.
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Hearthstone |OT3| Preparing for the Ball of Spiders Meta
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I'm using them in my dragon controlish priest deck. It works well mostly but has also screwed me a couple times. The deck requires board presence otherwise it can get hurt pretty good by any decently-sized minions, especially if they pop out early.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Hogger used to see some use in Paladin I think? Not so much anymore though.
Of course there's always the Hogger + Master of Disguise combo with Rogue lol.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Okay, this made me laugh, lol
NobleGundam
Banned
Is that the new brawl mode coming in a few days?
poppedcollar69
Member
i just had such a good turn
he has a 4/1 shredder and a blastmage, i have an acolyte and a 2/1 dagger
acolyte to shredder, mana addict spawned, draw poison, use poison
drop ship's cannon and dread corsair, cannon does 2 damage to addict, kill blastmage with 4/1 dagger, drop salty dog, cannon kills mana addict
have lethal on board, click next turn, 2x fireball to face for loss
he has a 4/1 shredder and a blastmage, i have an acolyte and a 2/1 dagger
acolyte to shredder, mana addict spawned, draw poison, use poison
drop ship's cannon and dread corsair, cannon does 2 damage to addict, kill blastmage with 4/1 dagger, drop salty dog, cannon kills mana addict
have lethal on board, click next turn, 2x fireball to face for loss
Rough but tbf just a Flamestrike would have rekt you almost as much
Getting Ship's Cannon snipes in arena always feels amazing though, you can't expect it either because pirates are so awful
PandaPandaPanda
Member
no (serious) netdeck runs it so really up to you if you want to keep it
Is there a good place to read (as opposed to watch) the reasoning behind the rankings of some of these cards? Although like you say I get it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.
For example rating Arcane Missiles below average is baffling to me, it's cheap (and often free) has synergies with all sorts of cards, helps maintain early board control, can hit stealth minions (often saving you against Shades of Naxxramas), reaches behind taunts, breaks divine shields, trigger counterspell to save your bigger spells and can work well in conjunction with the hero power.
Admittedly it's not always reliable but the same could be said about all sorts of cards.
Similar things with other cards like Annoy-O-Tron which has saved me many times.
That said I've been caught by counter-intuitive things before and do often do terribly in arena which is why I want more details.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Arcane missiles with synergy is an okay card. Without synergy it is very below average. The chances of you getting good synergy and then drawing it does not make arcane missiles a particularly good card, despite sometimes it being good.
You wouldn't pick arcane missiles over a solid/average minion or a better spell like frostbolt, hence that is likely why they rated it low.
Arena is about mainly value and consistency. Especially when rated against other cards. You can't always look at ideal scenarios when rating cards, you need to look at average scenarios.
When you look at Arcane Missiles you have to not only rate it as its value but also what it can likely kill.
The average weakest minion you see in Arena is a 3/2 or a 2/3. You rarely see 1 health minions in Arena because the Mage hero power shuts them down hard.
So if you need to use an Arcane Missile to kill a 2 health and it whiffs completely... you are in deep shit because you just lost card advantage. Trying to kill a 3 health minion with Arcane Missiles is also optimistic and can back fire.
There aren't many stealth minions you want to be killing with Arcane Missiles anyway. Like yeah sure you might have the Arcane Missiles kill Mini Mage DREAM scenario but usually you are facing off against the Panther or the 5/5 Tiger... which are hard to kill with Arcane Missiles.
So now that we have established that Arcane Missiles is unreliable at killing most minions by itself... let's look at other cards that you can play instead of Arcane Missiles: Frost Bolt and Flamecannon. Flamecannon is a superior stealth killer as the 4 damage is respectable. In the early game the opponent usually has 1-2 cards in play so that means that Flamecannon will usually kill. With the Mage power, Flamecannon can even kill a Yeti. Frostbolt is the same as Flamecannon but has the added benefit of being more reliable, can hit face and can freeze minions for more survivability. It's a godlike 2 drop early removal spell. And really if you want early game spells, you want these two spells... not Arcane Missiles. These cards give you guaranteed tempo where you can remove a 3 drop minion with them and then play a 2 drop of your own on turn 4 (like kill a Spider tank with Flame Cannon then play a Snowchugger).
Annoyotron is mediocre because Mage exists unfortunately (and Paladin too to some extent). The divine shield can be pinged off with a hero power and once you do that it's literally a Goldshire Footman. Then it dies to a 2/3 minion for free. There are very few situations where Annoyotron will ever give you card advantage or trade up and in many cases it's hard for it to even go 1 for 1. If you can't reliably go 1 for 1 in Arena in terms of card advantage then the card is generally considered mediocre. It's still not bad when you desperately need a taunt in your deck but there are other better 2 drops you can pick.
Eh, there are so many ways to get synergy with the cheap mage spells. It's also great for all the paladins you run into in arena.
Hogger is a solid tier 2 or 3 legendary. The 6 mana slot is pretty crowded for most decks, but it's mostly crowded with other legendary cards. He isn't as good as Sylvanus, Harrison, or Black Knight; but he makes a great gap filler until you flesh out your collection.
Hogger can really shine against aggo decks that don't take him out immediately. At worst he is a 6/6, but after 2 or 3 rounds on board he gets massive value.
He is used in some Druid decks. His spawns can combo with Savage Roar. He is great when Innervated out on turn 4 since it reduces the options your opponent has to deal with him.
The best way to learn the pros and cons of various cards is just to watch pro streamers. Many of them discuss why cards are bad or good during their draft.
Arcane Missles is not great in Arena for a lot of reasons.
> It's difficult to get value with on it's own. If the 3 damage hits face it's a useless card. If it leaves a minion with 2 health it's generally useless.
> It's a random ping in a class that can already use it's hero power to ping where it wants. If this card were in a class that couldn't ping as a hero power it would be more valuable, but it's often much smarter to use hero power and save a card.
>It requires combos to be great. You can't plan your draft options, so you should never draft for combos. You have to judge the card on it's own. (If you have already drafted several Flamewakers and Appretices the spell gains value, but so do all of your spell options, many of which will still be better than this)
>It is a very weak recover card. If you are behind this card doesn't do much to bring you back.
>It's low cost generally means you will be spending more cards than your opponent. This means you'll be top decking sooner. So you need more card draw, which means you have have to draft weaker minions or spells that draw cards, which means you are trying to plan your draft, which isn't possible, and loops back into a deadly 0-3 arena run.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Just make BGH anti-Giants and make Giants a tribe. Now it is a niche tech card.
Guys you can't JUST change BGH to not have it kill Dr Balanced.
You guys do realize that before Dr Balanced was put into the set BGH was not commonly used right? It was actually in fact a tech card and not an auto include in every midrange/control deck. No one even complained about BGH before Dr Balanced came in. That's because BGH was basically just a Ragnaros killer + tech option against Handlock and Ragnaros was a bit phased during the post Naxx meta (where there were so many annoying deathrattle stuff on the board).
If you change BGH to not have it kill Dr Balanced then Dr Balanced would basically have to be banned from tournaments. Classes like Druid would have no answer to that card and would be phased out completely (more so than they already are).
You guys do realize that before Dr Balanced was put into the set BGH was not commonly used right? It was actually in fact a tech card and not an auto include in every midrange/control deck. No one even complained about BGH before Dr Balanced came in. That's because BGH was basically just a Ragnaros killer + tech option against Handlock and Ragnaros was a bit phased during the post Naxx meta (where there were so many annoying deathrattle stuff on the board).
If you change BGH to not have it kill Dr Balanced then Dr Balanced would basically have to be banned from tournaments. Classes like Druid would have no answer to that card and would be phased out completely (more so than they already are).
Ooh missed that, well that's exciting. Hopefully some news then next month.
BananasWithGuns
Member
You could probably name that brawl "Mulligan for Tundra Rhino."
Cobra Shot would be useable.
Explosive Shot would be amazing. Call Pet would be insane (basically a free cycle).
Oh and the GOD combo:
Tundra Rhino + Gazrilla + Arcane Shot the Gazrilla + Steamwiddle Sniper Hero power Gazrilla + King Crush OTK COMBO!!!!!
Plus return of Starving Buzzard GOD COMBO!
Since both players are playing it, it would be completely balanced! I am pretty much imagining the game could be finished in 1 turn if you get Starving Buzzard and draw out the win condition...
That does sound infinitely better than banana brawl
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Thank you Bagwell for showing me the worst Arena play of all time. This was all he did, then he armored up.
I hope the Next GVG-like expansion will be about the Great Sea.
That would be the perfect opportunity to improve pirats and murlocs.
I would also love to see more Naga cards as well as a tag and support for them.
Other than that,here is my wishlist for the next expansion:
-some cheap dragons
-a good 2 drop for priests
-draw for shamans
-good beast for druids
-more control cards for rogues (and maybe hunter).
That would be the perfect opportunity to improve pirats and murlocs.
I would also love to see more Naga cards as well as a tag and support for them.
Other than that,here is my wishlist for the next expansion:
-some cheap dragons
-a good 2 drop for priests
-draw for shamans
-good beast for druids
-more control cards for rogues (and maybe hunter).
platypotamus
Member
Chromaggus + 2 Mana Tide Totems has been pretty disgusting for me over the last week. YMMV.
My wishlist for the next expansion:
*Please no RNG based god tier cards.
*Please no more minions that spawn other minions that spawn other minions.
*Reliable card draw for Shamans.
*A GOOD big body removal for Druid.
*A bunch of anti aggro cards like Zombie Chow which was good.
*New mechanics.
*I kinda want the reverse of Hobgoblin where there's a card that buffs 1 health minions.
*Mad Scientist and Dr Balanced receive their just dessert nerfs because I am tired of running into these minions and them scumbagging value out of their asses.
*Please no bull shit top dick Hunter cards.
*More class dragons and pirates (if that's possible).
*Better anti Deathrattle cards. Lil Exorcist and Scarlet Purifier are too slow and not useful enough (in the case of Scarlet Purifier it's actually worse if you do damage and trigger the Deathrattles).
Though more than anything I just want more and better neutral Legendaries. GvG was highly disappointing on the neutral Legendary front.
*Please no RNG based god tier cards.
*Please no more minions that spawn other minions that spawn other minions.
*Reliable card draw for Shamans.
*A GOOD big body removal for Druid.
*A bunch of anti aggro cards like Zombie Chow which was good.
*New mechanics.
*I kinda want the reverse of Hobgoblin where there's a card that buffs 1 health minions.
*Mad Scientist and Dr Balanced receive their just dessert nerfs because I am tired of running into these minions and them scumbagging value out of their asses.
*Please no bull shit top dick Hunter cards.
*More class dragons and pirates (if that's possible).
*Better anti Deathrattle cards. Lil Exorcist and Scarlet Purifier are too slow and not useful enough (in the case of Scarlet Purifier it's actually worse if you do damage and trigger the Deathrattles).
Though more than anything I just want more and better neutral Legendaries. GvG was highly disappointing on the neutral Legendary front.
First 2 I'm totally down for.
Isn't Oil Rogue essentially a control deck already? The class already has blade flurry, sabotage, and assasinate. Not to mention betrayal and sap/vanish
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
I read this three times and still don't know what you're saying.
Yeah,both of the should at the very least cost 1 mana more, and even than Boom would be too good.
It's not just neutral Legendaries that got the shaft,but class ones as well.
Priest and shaman got good ones,but that wasn't enough to make these classes great.
Only Mal'ganis is played right now, but that's only because of voidcaller,otherwise he would be trash tier.
No,oil rogue is a combo deck.
BananasWithGuns
Member
It has some insane control though
FieryBalrog
Member
Druid lacking good removal for big minions is a feature not a bug.
It's the only thing really balancing out the tempo swing generated by Innervate/Wild Growth and the Savage roar combo.
It's the only thing really balancing out the tempo swing generated by Innervate/Wild Growth and the Savage roar combo.
BananasWithGuns
Member
I agree to an extent but as more and more cards get introduced Druid is going to need something. Naturalize and Recycle just don't cut it.
I'm not saying they need something like Hex or Polymorph but Blizzard will need to throw them a bone eventually. Something along the lines of Crush maybe.
I never said it was a bug. Of course it's a balancing thing, but it's not a good one IMO.
And these things change. Remember when Priests didn't have good early game minions? Or when Warlock didn't have solid minions (but instead had minions with draw back to balance out their hero power)? The Warlock thing actually makes more sense than not giving Druid one good removal option.
And these things change. Remember when Priests didn't have good early game minions? Or when Warlock didn't have solid minions (but instead had minions with draw back to balance out their hero power)? The Warlock thing actually makes more sense than not giving Druid one good removal option.
Super Nothing
Member
Mal'ganis is great when he pops out of Bane of Doom.
If you have Knife Juggler and Violet Teacher on the board and you play Bane of Doom on a minion, Violet Teacher will spawn an Apprentice causing Knife Juggler to throw a knife. The knife can potentially kill the minion you targeted with BoD. If it does, you still have a chance to spawn a demon from BoD if BoD would be able to kill that minion if it were full health (like a 3/2). If the minion you targeted with BoD was, for example, an injured Spider Tank with only 1 health left, BoD wouldn't be able to kill the graveyard version (3/4), so you don't get a demon.
FieryBalrog
Member
They haven't really added any traditionally solid minions for Warlock though? Unless you mean Imp Gang Boss? I guess that could count.
Also druid isn't the only class that has trouble dealing with big minions, Siphon Soul is the same mana cost as Recycle, and Equality/Aldor is a bit situational for Paladin.
Yeah I am talking about Imp Gang Boss and what a fucking solid minion to add to their arsenal. It easily filled that gap in their toolset where they lacked a solid 3 drop body, now they arguably have the best one.
Paladin has way better removals options than Druid. For one they have godlike board clears. It doesn't matter that they have trouble handling the occasional big minion (which they shouldn't because they have double Aldor) when they can wipe a board full of Giants with Equality/Consecrate or Equality/Pyromancer. Plus they have Truesilver GG and Consecrate. Like their control options far out class Druids. Druids best option against a full board is Poison Seed into Starfall... which no one runs because it's too expensive and each individual piece of the removal is also very expensive (unlike Equality or Aldor which are cheap removals).
Druid not only has weak board clears but has weak single target removals as well. They did give them a legitimate board clear option so it would be unfair to ask for ANOTHER board clear option but I really feel now is the right time for them to get a removal option. Now I am not saying they should just get Assassinate straight up.. that would be boring. Probably a conditional removal where if you mean the condition you can remove for cheap.
Siphon Soul is fine because it kills AND heals which Warlock actually needs. Recycle isn't an actual removal, it's actually quite bad. I know in theory it's basically a removal but in practice it usually isn't. Nothing worse than Recycling a big creature only to have the opponent top dick it and then play it again next turn. In addition, Warlock has god Shadowflame board clear so they don't have too much of a tough time dealing with a strong board (they also have Demonwrath, Hellfire, Twisting Nether etc for board clears).
Paladin has way better removals options than Druid. For one they have godlike board clears. It doesn't matter that they have trouble handling the occasional big minion (which they shouldn't because they have double Aldor) when they can wipe a board full of Giants with Equality/Consecrate or Equality/Pyromancer. Plus they have Truesilver GG and Consecrate. Like their control options far out class Druids. Druids best option against a full board is Poison Seed into Starfall... which no one runs because it's too expensive and each individual piece of the removal is also very expensive (unlike Equality or Aldor which are cheap removals).
Druid not only has weak board clears but has weak single target removals as well. They did give them a legitimate board clear option so it would be unfair to ask for ANOTHER board clear option but I really feel now is the right time for them to get a removal option. Now I am not saying they should just get Assassinate straight up.. that would be boring. Probably a conditional removal where if you mean the condition you can remove for cheap.
Interestingly enough, Malfurion killed Xavius by turning him into a tree.
That would be a fun card for druids.
It would be really good at 4 mana. On par with Polymorph. Sometimes better, sometimes worse.
5 is iffy. Maybe it would get played in some decks.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Control Warrior probably? Maybe Patron as well.
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