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Hearthstone |OT3| Preparing for the Ball of Spiders Meta

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V

ViviOggi

Member
Haunted said:
salty.gif
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Yes

Implosion is simply utter trash design, not even Crackle comes close

Also hilariously Zoo used to be the most "honest" aggro-ish deck in the sense that it simply built high-value vanilla boards and buffed them predictably, then came deathrattle domination (one of the game's worst mechanics to begin with, and yet they managed to trump it by introducing rng deathrattles), and now on top of all that we have this bs

DrMario was right
 
P

Pooya

Member
I lost 3 games that were clearly in my favor anda done deal to effing Kel'Thuzad today. KT+Sylvanas combo? I'm done with this game for a while. Dr. Boom isn't even a problem anymore.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Implosion really is dumb as fuck. I was watching reckful last night and had a pretty solid turn to show the implications(and this is a common boardstate). He was against mage, with a 3/2 Sorceror's Apprentice and a 2/4 Flamewaker. He had an 2/4 Imp Gang Boss and 4 mana.

He implosions Flamewaker, rolls a 2. Hits into the Flamewaker since it needs to die and makes another imp. His board is now a 2/2 and three 1/1s. Mage still has Apprentice.

If that was a 4, he would have traded into the Apprentice and have a 2/1 with 5 1/1s AND a clear board. That is a huge fucking difference. Like, holy shit.
 
S

Super Nothing

Member
ViviOggi said:
Yes

Implosion is simply utter trash design, not even Crackle comes close

Also hilariously Zoo used to be the most "honest" aggro-ish deck in the sense that it simply built high-value vanilla boards and buffed them predictably, then came deathrattle domination (one of the game's worst mechanics to begin with, and yet they managed to trump it by introducing rng deathrattles), and now on top of all that we have this bs

DrMario was right
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They seriously need to do something about Piloted Shredder's deathrattle. They need to make it more like Bane of Doom used to be where it pulls from a subset of 2-drops instead of all possible 2-drops. I don't really have a problem with Sky Golem or Sneed's, but that's mostly because I hardly ever see them. Sneed's is capable of some real bullshit, but it's just so slow and unpredictable that it's not worth running. It's also vulnerable to silence, and that's just too much risk considering the cost.
 
Z

zoukka

Member
Those RNG cards are the handicap that gives bad players sometimes the edge against good players. That mechanic is never going away from HS.
 
C

CoolOff

Member
Yeah, I have also reached the "fuck that card" point with Imp-losion. Worst designed card by far. Not as OP as Mad Scientist or Dr Balanced, but way more infuriating.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
I just started playing again after a year or so off from the game, RNG is going to steal more than a few games from you and either deal with it or play something else. Instead of having more complicated mechanics (and longer match times, more rules confusion, and troublesome interface problems), the need for risk assessment and calculating outcomes based on expected value is very real and differentiates the skill level between players.

If you hate dealing with RNG though, can't you just play a deck with a pretty deterministic gameplan that don't rely on cards with big variance? Those decks are popular tournament decks anyway simply because they produce consistent output, i.e. they don't shit the bed at the worst possible time.
 
D

Dreavus

Member
zoukka said:
Those RNG cards are the handicap that gives bad players sometimes the edge against good players. That mechanic is never going away from HS.
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Considering lots of the discussion about this game boils down to "...and then this unlikely thing happened and I won!" or "...and then this unlikely thing happened and I lost!", it's definitely not going away. "Player stories" like that are what Blizzard likes and they've said it's one of the core principles that informs their design on Hearthstone.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Knife Juggler plus Implosion combo combined with Boom Bots RNG w/ Void Caller summoning Malganis is like the most concentrated bull shit in the game and unsurprisingly Zoolock runs all 4 of these cards.

Only way Zoolock can be more insufferable is if Warlock got Secrets. Then they would run double Scientist and just out tempo you like Hunter/Mage does.


I don't mind RNG especially in card games but this is getting to gross levels now.

Like for example... I like big breasts. But I don't like size 32Z breast size!


If you hate dealing with RNG though, can't you just play a deck with a pretty deterministic gameplan that don't rely on cards with big variance?
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The problem is playing AGAINST these Tempo RNG based cards that steal wins from you with god draws or god RNG.
 
S

Super Nothing

Member
CoolOff said:
Yeah, I have also reached the "fuck that card" point with Imp-losion. Worst designed card by far. Not as OP as Mad Scientist or Dr Balanced, but way more infuriating.
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I don't think Imp-losion is OP because of the wide variance in outcomes, whereas Mad Scientist and Dr. Balance are flat out too good of value for the cost. Imp-losion is badly designed in that it shouldn't be that big of a gap between the best and worst case scenarios. 2 damage and 2 1/1s for 4 mana is pretty bad, but 4 damage and 4 1/1s for 4 mana is amazing. I like the idea of either making it a straight 3 damage 3 1/1s or making the damage and Imps inversely related. You roll the dice for damage and then you get 6 minus damage rolled in Imps. That way, 4 damage gets you 2 1/1s and 2 damage gets you 4 1/1s.
 
T

TetraxShards

Member
Honestly, the thing that bothers me most at low ranks is when players play a deck that is mostly a netdeck, then they fill the gaps with bullshit randomness and somehow win.

Today, at Rank 19 hell I've had:
- An Oil Rogue that played double Iron Sensei on the same turn, and no other Mechs in the whole deck
- A Zoo that just dropped in Rag and Sylvanas for no reason
- Another Zoo that played double Dread Infernal (OOH! A GOLD CARD! GOTTA PUT IT IN THE DECK!)
- A Patron Warrior running Iron Juggernaut and Brewmasters
- An Aggro Paladin running the Face Hunter list (WHO PLAYS MAD SCIENTIST IN PALADIN?) but with Truesilvers instead of Eaglehorns
- and every second game was that new attempt at Divine Spirit/Inner Fire Priest with Mogushan Wardens. Just give it up guys, srs.

Seriously, I know that a lot of losses are my fault because I'm not that good, but COME ON! I've been playing for three hours today and only climbed one rank! So sad.

I'm saltier than a sandwich with processed ham and salt and vinegar crisps served with a glass of sea water right now.
 
F

Fragamemnon

Member
Dahbomb said:
The problem is playing AGAINST these Tempo RNG based cards that steal wins from you with god draws or god RNG.
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The thing is those players can often lose to the high variance on those cards too. If they aren't losing to the high variance on the low end, i that is more a problem with the card's overall power level than the concept of a high variance card itself.

Maybe the real problem is that high variance cards can't be that bad at the low end otherwise people won't play them, but have to be really good at the high end in order to actually be high variance cards. Maybe they are all just OP by design.

example: imposion. At its worst, it's three to three and a half mana worth of value (2 damage on a card = 1 mana value, 2 1/1s = 1.5 mana value, both on the same card=.5 to 1 mana value depending on how you swing it). At its best, it is probably 5.5-6 mana in value. So maybe it's not really RNG that's the problem, but that the card is just undercosted for what it does.

Implosion is not that bad. Mad scientist is probs my most hated card even worse than boom.
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This card is way too pushed and needs a cost nerf, agree completely.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Fragamemnon said:
The thing is those players can often lose to the high variance on those cards too. If they aren't losing to the high variance on the low end, i that is more a problem with the card's overall power level than the concept of a high variance card itself.

Maybe the real problem is that high variance cards can't be that bad at the low end otherwise people won't play them, but have to be really good at the high end in order to actually be high variance cards. Maybe they are all just OP by design.
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They win WAY WAY more than they lose with those cards.

Most of the cards I listed are "decent" even if they hit the worst range of RNG. Like they are still doing damage.


It's better to look at the averages than worst and best. A Shredder for example if it spawns a 2/3 is still very high value. You are getting a 3 drop that turns into a 2 drop minion... for 4 mana. That's why this card gets used... because more than often it's going to swing in your favor. Same for Dr Balanced... on average the Boom Bots are going to hit something on the board for 2 damage and kill something else which is great value.


And yea the power level of these cards is definitely an issue. RNG based cards shouldn't be this good or at the very least not this good CONSISTENTLY. That said something like Implosion is just horrible design no matter how you look at it.
 
D

Danj

Member
The thing that annoys me about Imp-losion is that it can do more damage than the target has health and the user still gets imps for that. So if someone targets say a 3/2 with it, they can still get 3 or 4 imps out of it. I don't think that's right. But maybe that's just me.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Danj said:
The thing that annoys me about Imp-losion is that it can do more damage than the target has health and the user still gets imps for that. So if someone targets say a 3/2 with it, they can still get 3 or 4 imps out of it. I don't think that's right. But maybe that's just me.
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That's consistent with other cards though.


Guess I'm getting what I deserve for playing cancer Paladin because this deathlord priest matchup is an impossible win.
 
S

Schryver

Member
CoolOff said:
uxv3gaZ.png


Rogue against Pally in Arena is EZ-mode. The difference in how strong the hero powers are vs. each other is staggering.
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What is this app/site? Anyone have a recommendation for tracking because HearthstoneTracker seems to only work properly half the time, if that.
 
J

JesseZao

Member
Schryver said:
What is this app/site? Anyone have a recommendation for tracking because HearthstoneTracker seems to only work properly half the time, if that.
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That's heartharena.com

It's helpful for assisting you in your draft picks and general strategy with your deck after making it. I've never used it to track stats though. Tracker works fine for me.
 
G

gutshot

Member
You have to input your run results manually on HearthArena. It is not a HearthstoneTracker replacement.

I use Track-O-Bot and, while it might not have as many bells and whistles as some other trackers out there, I've found that it tracks things very accurately.
 
M

Magnus

Member
I must be doing a lot wrong. Using a 'legend' demonlock deck on Ladder (rank 18!) and getting WRECKED. I think I need to watch more videos of exactly how this deck is played....

I just can't seem to get my footing by turn 4 or 5 and it's all over from there.

Flipped back to my priest and owned several matches in a row.

Hilarious to me that Warlock is consistently ranked the #1 overall hero in this thread and Priest ranked overall as the worst.
 
M

mxgt

Banned
Warlock is #1 because life tap is the best hero power and they have so many competitve decks

Priest is still fun to play and can win a lot, but it's too much of a reactive class. Often I can sit there with 6 or 7 cards in hand and can't play anything on an empty board.

MetroidPrimeRib said:
Goldshire footman probably, unless you are Priest, flying machine can do some work
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I did pick footman and he even helped me win my first game!
 
J

JesseZao

Member
I feel like reynad is getting really desparate with his streams as of late. Each one has to have a gimmick or event to make people interested.

Maybe he just feels the pressure since he's not their best streamer anymore.

Also, did anyone mention the animated series / second episode that came out? I don't even know why they're doing these. They're sooooo bad. They should either have better writing or make them even shorter than they already are and just call them clips or something.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
CoolOff said:
Just got my Earth Elemental Black Knighted in Arena.

Yeah...
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Ck8cx8u.jpg


Man, Arena can feel like the worst. In Constructed, you almost expect ridiculous swings like that to happen and you can plan for them accordingly. Cards like Black Knight or BGH can't really be played around in Arena, so you just feel the slime coming out of every orifice when they happen there.
 
S

Servbot #42

Unconfirmed Member
JesseZao said:
I feel like reynad is getting really desparate with his streams as of late. Each one has to have a gimmick or event to make people interested.

Maybe he just feels the pressure since he's not their best streamer anymore.

Also, did anyone mention the animated series / second episode that came out? I don't even know why they're doing these. They're sooooo bad. They should either have better writing or make them even shorter than they already are and just call them clips or something.
Click to expand...

I wonder if that whole mira thing in his stream this week was staged for attention, at least i hope so because that shit was so dumb, damn streamers and their silly "drama".
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Ok. I had the dust, so I said fuck it.

CJXJcOcVAAA5IFs.png:large


This is the standard, right? Anything need changing? Two brawls? Two BGH? Kezan? Whirlwind?

Also considering swapping Ysera for Nefarian.
 
B

BananasWithGuns

Member
Thaurissan in control Warrior seems to odd to me but I haven't played much of it since I still don't have Alexstrasza or Geddon so I could just be clueless. Although I can't remember the last time I've seen a control Warrior drop a Geddon at this point.

I see a lot of control Warriors running double Brawl now. Also the occasional Revenge. I guess it's just preference.
 
J

JesseZao

Member
MetroidPrimeRib said:
Ok. I had the dust, so I said fuck it.

CJXJcOcVAAA5IFs.png:large


This is the standard, right? Anything need changing? Two brawls? Two BGH? Kezan? Whirlwind?

Also considering swapping Ysera for Nefarian.
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Looks solid. It just depends on your meta for what cards to swap in and out. Others are just preferences from play style.

i.e. I'm not a big fan of Baron and I like having shredders in my CW lists. My list is pretty close to yours. I maybe swapped both armorsmiths and baron for shredders and two brawls. I don't run Emp either. I run TBK instead of Emp.
 
H

homeworkfilms

Member
Geddon isn't use much in control atm. Lots of double Brawl being used now. Otherwise looks about right.

Emperor can setup Sylvanas/Brawl one turn clears and nice finisher combos with weapons.
 
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