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Hearthstone |OT3| Preparing for the Ball of Spiders Meta

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M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
I've always hated the paladin vs rogue match up... as the paladin.

As the rogue it is like... tempo mage vs druid degree of ease. Sometimes they win, but most of the time, unless you screw up big time or the cards really fall out of order...

This is how it goes. Paladin tries to play early minions to try to mount pressure in order to force the rogue to make stupid plays. The rogue plays scoffs at his minibots as she removes both shields and deals with muster for battle with a timely FOK. Turn 5 drake to take out a 3 health minion with backstab... the tempo is too good. No sword? Screwed. Azure drake is hitting you for the rest of the game, but even that is on a massive clock now.

The noteworthy thing about this particular match was, turn 8 tirion. Of course I have sap, cause why wouldn't I, I am a rogue vs paladin who played turn 8 tirion, time to punish for playing a big minion on curve. He doesn't replay tirion, opting instead to now muster quartermaster. The funny thing is that with 1 spellpower on board, and thalnos in hand, I had a 3 damage fan of knives, plus a 3 damage blade flurry. It was lethal, but even if it was not I had a way to clear that powerful board creation move without losing even a violet teacher's apprentice.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I kind of hate that matchup because it's not enough to simply backstab the Minibot. No, I have to attack it first and then, backstab, and theno reload my weapon for weapon buffs.

Piloted Golem? That's a Deadly poison (both charges), an Evisc, a SI:7 agent and an attack, etc. It's never a straightforward matter of "no you don't get to play this card", but I have to kill all their fucking shit twice.

All the while I'm taking 2-4 damage to the face because I need to use my face to control the board.
 
M

Mobius and pet octopus

Member
Haly said:
I kind of hate that matchup because it's not enough to simply backstab the Minibot. No, I have to attack it first and then, backstab, and theno reload my weapon for weapon buffs.

Piloted Golem? That's a Deadly poison (both charges), an Evisc, a SI:7 agent and an attack, etc. It's never a straightforward matter of "no you don't get to play this card", but I have to kill all their fucking shit twice.

All the while I'm taking 2-4 damage to the face because I need to use my face to control the board.
Click to expand...

I'm okay with spending half a mana and 1 card to kill a minibot. Imo it is a favorable trade for the rogue. The 2 health is negligible since paladin don't have that kind of burst to make it really matter.

I'd hit a minibot twice if it meant bringing it down + muster in a single fok, the health cost is worth it imo.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
This Tavern Brawl reminded me Kidnapper exists.

But why? He's got to be the shittiest class epic in the game. Why do you exist Kidnapper?

Why do you usually wear cologne?

Oh wait, forgot Far Sight. Also I don't think I have ever seen Pit Lord, not even from Bane of Doom, which is weird because I play a lot of Zoo and run 1 Bane of Doom.
 
Z

ZealousD

Makes world leading predictions like "The sun will rise tomorrow"
BananasWithGuns said:
Between Cenarius, Toshley and Troggzor, which one would be the best use of 1600 dust?

Cenarius I'm guessing?
Click to expand...

Cenarius probably. He goes in and out of Ramp Druid. Toshley only has use in high-end tempo mage. Troggzor doesn't do much right now.

Honestly I wouldn't craft any of them. I would save the dust for the expansion.
 
$

$h@d0w

Junior Member
J

JesseZao

Member
$h@d0w said:
Samsung Galaxy Gifts promotion is active: http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/19819223

Three packs for free and a new card back.

It's possible to do this with Genymotion and a Build Prop Editor (Android emulator).

Follow these two guides from reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/32q830/stepbystep_guide_for_getting_free_android_pack/

http://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3dkjbb/how_to_get_the_galaxy_s6_card_back_and_packs/

Works once per Battle.net account.
Click to expand...

Wonder if I could do it in Android Studio. I'll probably just borrow somebody's s6.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
So now I'm wondering - which cards have you literally never seen? It can be in constructed or in total. For me, I am fairly certain I have never seen in Constructed, not counting shredders or unstable portal (1200+ games) -

Pit Lord
Far Sight
Beastial Wrath
Kidnapper
Headcrack
Southsea Captain
Captain's Parrot
Bloodsail Corsair
One Eyed Cheat
Captain Greenskin
Dark Wispers
Hemet
Venture Co. Merc
Sense Demons
Secretkeeper
Tauren Warrior
Dalaran Mage
Silvermoon Protector
Scarlet Crusader
Scarlet Purifier
Totemic Might
Spiteful Smith
Archmage
Spectral Knight
Nerub'ar Weblord
Mana Wraith
Cobalt Guardian
Wee Spellstopper
Dunemaul Shaman
Ogre Warmaul
Ogre Ninja
Thermaplugg
War Golem
Force Tank Max
Salty Dog
Dust Devil
Shadowbomber
Junkbot
Screwjank Clunker
Minimage
Metaltooth Leaper
Mech-Bear-Cat
Crush
Gahz'rilla
Trade Prince Gallywix
Onyxia
Illidan
Ravenholdt Assassin
Lightwarden
Thrallmar Farseer
Stormwind Knight
Elite Tauren Chieftain
Patient Assassin
Misdirection
Demolisher
Imp Master
Vaporize
Repentance
Master of Disguise
Frost Shock
Blessed Champion
Mass Dispel
Felguard
Savagery
Hungry Crab
Eye for an Eye
Gruul
Mimiron's Head

Ones only I have used myself and never seen an opponent play -

Malorne
Gazlowe
Mogor
Iron Juggernaut
King Krush

Which is a good chunk of cards.

So yeah Pirates are pretty bad considering I've only ever seen Bloodsail Corsair and Southsea Deckhand actually be used. I don't think I have ever actually seen a Pirate deck. Of course this is just my memory, I could have seen these once and forgotten, my noob days were long ago and some of these were probably played once or twice so I can't put Priestess of Elune or Nightblade on here, I am sure I saw those played a few times. I really had to scratch my mind to remember some of these existed (Southsea Captain, Ogre Warmaul, Sense Demons, Headcrack) I'd be curious to see what cards beta players have not seen.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Due to the tavern brawl and arena I've seen a lot of cards I otherwise wouldn't, but I do know I have never seen a Druid play Malorne(only seen via Hunter webspinners) and I have never seen someone play Shadowbomber...if that's even the right name, whatever that Priest 2/1 is. Never seen Hemet either.
 
D

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
MetroidPrimeRib said:
So yeah Pirates are pretty bad considering I've only ever seen Bloodsail Corsair and Southsea Deckhand actually be used. I don't think I have ever actually seen a Pirate deck. Of course this is just my memory, I could have seen these once and forgotten, my noob days were long ago and some of these were probably played once or twice so I can't put Priestess of Elune or Nightblade on here, I am sure I saw those played a few times. I really had to scratch my mind to remember some of these existed (Southsea Captain, Ogre Warmaul, Sense Demons, Headcrack) I'd be curious to see what cards beta players have not seen.
Click to expand...
I have a pirate deck. It used to be more viable (but still sort of a joke) but with the power creep in this game and the very, very early nerf to Captain's Parrot Pirate-centric decks never recovered. I would imagine there are Rogue decks that could still benefit from Greenskin.
 
P

Pooya

Member
Was Goblin Sapper ever used in constructed? It sure is a fun card.

There is that shaman murloc card too, I've pulled it from portal a few times but I've never seen it played by anyone, even in murloc decks.

I've played against a few pirate warriors, it wasn't too bad.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
dimb said:
I have a pirate deck. It used to be more viable (but still sort of a joke) but with the power creep in this game and the very, very early nerf to Captain's Parrot Pirate-centric decks never recovered. I would imagine there are Rogue decks that could still benefit from Greenskin.
Click to expand...

There aren't really even enough cards to make a good pirate deck I would imagine. I also forgot Dread Corsair, I never saw that used before the rise of Patron though. Ship's Cannon which is a pretty good card doesn't even count as a pirate.
Mechs seem like the only good group right now, although Dragon and Murloc are kind of close. If they were to add Undead grouping that would probably be pretty good as cards like Sylvanis, Zombie Chow, Belchers and Shade of Naxx already see a lot of play.

miladesn said:
Was Goblin Sapper ever used in constructed? It sure is a fun card.

There is that shaman murloc card too, I've pulled it from portal a few times but I've never seen it played by anyone, even in murloc decks.

I've played against a few pirate warriors, it wasn't too bad.
Click to expand...

I've never seen Siltfin Spiritwalker except from Neptulon or Goblin Sapper either.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Actually kind of coming around on this Brawl. It's fun to get a handful of goofy cards that never see play even in Arena. Now I actually know what Shadowbomber looks like when it is played and that Crush has a cool animation.
 
P

Pooya

Member
best face deck right now, you can definitely hit legend with it, but it takes skill to play unlike hunter, very powerful combos. I would take a loatheb still, most don't though.

You just have to play around divine favor, I played it a lot last season to learn counter it :p haven't lost to a single one this season, rank 10 and up there are quite few of these.
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Yeah the deck is nearly completely reliant on Divine Favor since it runs a bunch of small drops like Argent Squires and Minibots. Dumping your hand can do a lot of work. I have seen some run Mukla for emergency draws though.

ok dont actually dump your hand just keep it on the down low
 
A

Acinixys

Member
miladesn said:
Was Goblin Sapper ever used in constructed? It sure is a fun card.

There is that shaman murloc card too, I've pulled it from portal a few times but I've never seen it played by anyone, even in murloc decks.

I've played against a few pirate warriors, it wasn't too bad.
Click to expand...

Ive used that Shaman Murlock card a few times. When its spawned by Neptulon
laugh.gif


Its terrible. The overload mechanic coupled with all the RNG bullshit in cards like Lightning Storm and Cackle are what make Shaman such a shitty weak class
 
M

MetroidPrimeRib

Banned
Don't know why you would play Siltfin over Cult Master outside of synergy but that synergy isn't worth overload

Cult Master is also not restricted to just Murlocs. Odd card.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Stilfin is such a weird card. Card draw is powerful and all, but it's tribe specific and the stats aren't all that hot so the overload is so fucking weird.

Also is it just me or does Total Dominance seem more common? This is the 4th or 5th time I've gotten it in the last few weeks and I used to never see it.
 
S

Szadek

Member
Acinixys said:
Ive used that Shaman Murlock card a few times. When its spawned by Neptulon
laugh.gif


Its terrible. The overload mechanic coupled with all the RNG bullshit in cards like Lightning Storm and Cackle are what make Shaman such a shitty weak class
Click to expand...
No,the class is weak because it han't enough good cards, especially draw.
For a deck abour board control they really need some better minions,too.
Overload is fine in theory,but it makes most of the cards too expensive.
 
F

FeD.nL

Member
Szadek said:
No,the class is weak because it han't enough good cards, especially draw.
For a deck abour board control they really need some better minions,too.
Overload is fine in theory,but it makes most of the cards too expensive.
Click to expand...

Yeah this. I would love to play Shaman with a good deck. But seriously remove RNG + Overload cards, that's what kills it for me. I mean look at lightning storm, if your lightning storm rolls low you basically lost.
 
X

Xanathus

Member
I feel Ancestral Call Malygos Shaman is soooo close to being viable, it just needs better cards to survive to the late game stage. Ideally it would be more spell cards that summon minion(s) with taunt like Feral Spirits so that way it can't get triggered by Ancestral Call.
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
Aside from the shitty built-in rng what killed regular Shaman is power creep, plain and simple. The old core cards like Lightning Storm/Bolt, Feral Spirits etc. were strong in a meta where fast decks played vanilla minions and buffed them up over multiple turns and the stickiest early drop you could get was Harvest Golem. Now every aggro deck curvecheats and/or spams multiple deathrattles each turn while pulling tokens out of their asses, so your spells still cripple your curve but don't adequately answer half of your opponent's drops in the first place. Unbound Elemental used to be scary, now it gets traded down by any leftover trash minions before you can buff it even once. And good luck ever getting totem control when your opponent can just kill them immediately with no investment by using any random deathrattle you couldn't clear before. Needless to say against multiple decks totems are even a liability.
 
P

Pooya

Member
I'm so frustrated with belchers lately, they've screwed me so much lately, last game priest thoughtstole both of my belchers, what are the chance? wtf. Oil Rogue just saps them and goes into face anyway, priests shadows madness them and screw you hard, face hunter marks it and kills it like it's nothing. Elsewhere it's pretty ok. I'm just debating if I switch to Arcane Nullifier now, it seems better now, both can be silenced anyway. It's just that belchers attract spells and eat removals that could end somewhere worse and they trade way better overall but arcane nullifiers might actually save your face. Then there is the matter of patrons, let's be honest here, no taunt makes any difference here, unless you're druid maybe. AN cost one less too, so you can use it earlier against aggro. I guess I'm going to experiment, have golden ones and they look really pretty... Stampeding Kodo is a problem though but that's rare.

edit: I forgot Cabal Shadow Priest, this will screw even harder than belchers there. zzzz :(
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Senjin would probably be a better pick over nullifer if you want to swap out belcher. You lose the 1/2 which feeds Patron and get it out earlier anyway. Less painful to have owl'd by hunter scum.

But yeah the golden nullifier looks nice. That effect in general is great, I forget what stream I saw it on but I saw wee spellstopper get put beside a lightwell and it looked really damn cool.
 
O

Opiate

Member
Mobius and pet octopus said:
Such balanced grim patron warrior
laugh.gif



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM-UXf6QAsM
We're talking 60 damage in one turn from hand. Not set up. This is tournament play.
Click to expand...

Does Patron have a winning record in tournaments like this, though? Priest is an especially favorable matchup because it applies so little pressure. I see it lose quite a lot.

Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't, but it's still broken, because the classes it does beat it beats with such consistency. Maybe it just is "unfun" to lose against.
 
P

Pooya

Member
It's the top deck right now favored by the pros, Sjow got rekt the other day against a freeze mage, like he could do nothing even once. Handlock is not a good match up either, I think it was lifecoach that lost really badly too. These are like the best patron warrior players. But still it has ridiculous winrates, and it's not like it's yor fault that you lose to their combo, you can't do anything about it. It's not like Antonidas/Apprentice/Echo combo that wins the game instantly, it's much easier to pull this compared to that. and I don't buy it that it need such high skill to play...

-------------

That's a reasonable nerf idea for patrons but I'm not sure they will do that. The other piece of any combo deck is card draw, poor rogues that are the combo class have limited card draw, but battle rage can be ridiculous and is in complete synergy with everything else deck does on top. I think that needs some adjustments too. No other class has card draw that good and cheap.
 
X

Xanathus

Member
I think Grim Patron doesn't actually have that great of a win rate in tourney, IIRC in the Archon tourney someone with grim patron lost like 4 times with it. I think it was Sjow.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
Opiate said:
Does Patron have a winning record in tournaments like this, though? Priest is an especially favorable matchup because it applies so little pressure. I see it lose quite a lot.

Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't, but it's still broken, because the classes it does beat it beats with such consistency. Maybe it just is "unfun" to lose against.
Click to expand...

Patron is not exactly dominating, but it is in just about everybodie's lineup. Patron + handlock and you have most decks covered. You throw in a druid deck because why not, it wins sometimes. Mix in a freeze mage, hybrid hunter and maybe a zoo/demon deck and that is about all you see.

When Kolento plays it, you know it is real.

But I think Patron is more or less ok. Assuming there is something decent in the next set of cards, it could remain strong while other decks rise up.

The problem is more that because Patron is so strong, everybody has to bring the same decks that counter it. That gets boring fast and that is the angle I would try to fix things from.
 
V

ViviOggi

Member
Spent like an hour getting that emulator to work and got 120 dust. Not sure if worth.

Although I ran into a bunch of rare issues, should take a lot less time on average.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
Xanathus said:
I feel Ancestral Call Malygos Shaman is soooo close to being viable, it just needs better cards to survive to the late game stage. Ideally it would be more spell cards that summon minion(s) with taunt like Feral Spirits so that way it can't get triggered by Ancestral Call.
Click to expand...
Needs better ways to draw cards as well. Shaman draw options are ass, no way to get like 2-3 cards instantly like other classes.
 
S

Szadek

Member
Dahbomb said:
Needs better ways to draw cards as well. Shaman draw options are ass, no way to get like 2-3 cards instantly like other classes.
Click to expand...
True, every other class as better draw than Shamans.
Mana tide totem just isn't good enough and far sight is even worse (this really should at least be a 2 mana card by now).
Neptulon is great and all,but the class really needs more than that.
 
C

CoolOff

Member
Just saw this from a PC Gamer interview.

Here is mention of Boom:

MD: We’re keeping an eye on him, but I’m pretty happy with the fact people are playing a 7-drop even in the rush decks. There hasn’t been a 7-cost minion that’s been playable for a long time, maybe ever. So I’m totally fine with people playing Dr. Boom. I would like to see more variety in the 7-drops, like if he was a class card and other classes had different 7-drop minions I’d slightly prefer that, but that comes with time and new cards being released. He’s very strong, though. He’s an awesome card.
Click to expand...

105246-gary-coleman-wtf-gif-Imgur-dqts.gif
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
That's a pretty old comment by them but they basically admitted in that interview that 1) they are keeping an eye on it 2) it's used in almost every deck and 3) it's very strong.

Basically they need to come up with better 7 drops in the game (LOL!) or they might end up nerfing it to make better 7 drops in relation.
 
C

CoolOff

Member
But the problem isn't the lack of good 7s, the problem is that it would be undercosted even at 8 mana.

9/9 stats, spread on 3 bodies (which usually carries hefty penalties), and 2-8 random damage. I don't think it would disappear completely from decks even at 9 mana.

I'm all for more good (not insane) 7-drops.
 
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