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[BananasWithGuns]

You can vote for what C'thun's flavor text will be apparently.

http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/20742934646#1

 

[Dre]

All the yt videos lately from kripp (except that nerf one) have been awful. Just some small talk about a boring happening or card from arena plays and then 20min of him playing arena. I know that he puts every day new content but all this does more damage than good. At least for me I guess since I don't want to watch him any more.

p.s. Its funny that forsen tries this season to convince us that he knows how to play hearthstone. Never legend lol

Playing Hearthstone has been a chore for Forsen for quite some time now, he doesn't enjoy it one bit, but it pays the bill like nothing else, so he's unlikely to quit.
Coincidentally his stream is one of the worst in all of the Hearthstone community. Cancer music, cancer community, cancer TTP donations and a dismissive caster who mostly plays shit decks and constantly makes rank 25 plays because he's tilted most of the time.

But I guess that's what 12yr olds want to see nowadays.

 

[Emerson]

Everyone else keeps telling me it's all about skill, so it looks like you agree with me.


I know it - that's my point!

Like every draft format in any card game, yes, luck absolutely factors into drafting.

Also like every other draft format, the impact of luck is vastly overstated by people currently losing in the format.

Yes, if a Paladin gets all his best cards, you will struggle to overcome that. That's luck. If you aren't able to tolerate luck as a factor I'm really not sure why you're playing a card game. 90%+ of the time though that doesn't happen, and a player's skill deficit in drafting or playing is much more relevant to why they lost.

 

[Tomcat]

Playing Hearthstone has been a chore for Forsen for quite some time now, he doesn't enjoy it one bit, but it pays the bill like nothing else, so he's unlikely to quit.
Coincidentally his stream is one of the worst in all of the Hearthstone community. Cancer music, cancer community, cancer TTP donations and a dismissive caster who mostly plays shit decks and constantly makes rank 25 plays because he's tilted most of the time.

But I guess that's what 12yr olds want to see nowadays.

I couldnt stand playing hearthstone for so many hours either. And yeah the stream is awful especially the music and the chat.

 

[Pachimari]

Argh, I need to get into this because I really enjoy it, but might play Practice over again. It all seems so overwhelming, especially with the upcoming expansion that splits it into Standard and Wild or something.

 

[Karsticles]

True, but you most likely picked something that didn't have good synergy in arena. I mean, you can blame RNG all you want, but I can tell you my picks and my strategies have improved significantly the more I play it. Cards I thought were amazing because I built decks around them are not as good in arena, and cards I thought were worthless turned out to be very good. I used to get around 3 wins on average, now im around 5-6, with many going to 7 and allowing me to continue playing

My typical winstreak is the same as yours. I've only had less than 3 wins once.

I use heartharena to help inform my choices since I am a newer player, though now and then I will dissent from the computer's opinion.

Like every draft format in any card game, yes, luck absolutely factors into drafting.

Also like every other draft format, the impact of luck is vastly overstated by people currently losing in the format.

Yes, if a Paladin gets all his best cards, you will struggle to overcome that. That's luck. 90%+ of the time that doesn't happen, and a player's skill deficit in drafting or playing is much more relevant to why they lost.

I've gone to the 7-9 win range multiple times, so I don't think I'm that bad.

Argh, I need to get into this because I really enjoy it, but might play Practice over again. It all seems so overwhelming, especially with the upcoming expansion that splits it into Standard and Wild or something.

The split is there to help new players like us. It means the old GvG and Naxx sets are irrelevant, and we don't have to collect as many cards to compete. Jump in, man, we're here to guide you.

 

[markofhavoc]

My typical win streak is the same as yours. I've only had less than 3 wins once.

Then what is the problem? If your getting around 7, you getting your money back, I don't see how you can be frustrated at this point. You're paired with people with similar win streaks, so you're going to find decks that are competent, because they too have 7 wins

 

[embalm]

I've done at least 6 arena runs with Dahbomb coaching me, and he can't believe the bullshit decks people have all the time. The game is tempo-based until around turn 6, and then it starts to be about top decking a game-winning card, and if you haven't had the fortune to get any of those during the card selection process, GG.

Also, if the game wasn't about the RNG, you wouldn't have everyone trying to play Paladin and Mage in Arena. If it was really about skill, it would just be your personal preference. I get that Arena forces you to learn the game, but I don't think the drafting aspect is respectable.

You are falling into the trap of thinking that you got beat by a single card on a late turn when you play, but that is rarely the case. Often times it is an early game mistake that snowballs into a lead for the opponent. That lead lets them make better trades, make greedy plays like saving powerful spells, and often forces you to make sub-optimal plays like playing into a board clear. All of these things become more obvious as it happens with lots of more experience.

Paladin, Mage, and Rogue are more popular classes because they have a ew more powerful common cards. This allows you to mitigate one or two weaknesses a deck might have and it allows you to delay deciding what kind of deck you're building until you pick more cards based on pure value.

It's never been about a single powerful card in your deck. It's about many above average cards in your deck that work together in a meaningful way.

Also the stats on which classes are better are over dramatized anyway. This site uses self reporting:
http://www.arenamastery.com/sitewide.php

Best class: Mage @64.4% win rate
Worst class: Warrior @ 60.4% win rate


Some games will be blow outs because of insane decks vs crap decks, but in my 2000+ games of arena I find that to be more rare than most players think.

 

[Karsticles]

Then what is the problem? If your getting around 7, you getting your money back, I don't see how you can be frustrated at this point. You're paired with people with similar win streaks, so you're going to find decks that are competent, because they too have 7 wins

All I said was that I think Arena's draft would be better if everyone got the same number of rare/epic/legendary draws. I don't think I have a "problem", I just think it would be an improvement on the current design.

You are falling into the trap of thinking that you got beat by a single card on a late turn when you play, but that is rarely the case. Often times it is an early game mistake that snowballs into a lead for the opponent. That lead lets them make better trades, make greedy plays like saving powerful spells, and often forces you to make sub-optimal plays like playing into a board clear. All of these things become more obvious as it happens with lots of more experience.

Paladin, Mage, and Rogue are more popular classes because they have a ew more powerful common cards. This allows you to mitigate one or two weaknesses a deck might have and it allows you to delay deciding what kind of deck you're building until you pick more cards based on pure value.

It's never been about a single powerful card in your deck. It's about many above average cards in your deck that work together in a meaningful way.

Also the stats on which classes are better are over dramatized anyway. This site uses self reporting:
http://www.arenamastery.com/sitewide.php

Best class: Mage @64.4% win rate
Worst class: Warrior @ 60.4% win rate


Some games will be blow outs because of insane decks vs crap decks, but in my 2000+ games of arena I find that to be more rare than most players think.

The matches that frustrate me aren't the ones where I make mistakes, or where the opponent snowballs me. The matches that frustrate me are the ones where someone plays Tirion or some other god tier Arena card on a clear board, and I'm like "wow, I have zero options to deal with that and Ashbringer in my deck - GG".

That is definitely the case of me losing to a single card.

 

[Tarazet]

The matches that frustrate me aren't the ones where I make mistakes, or where the opponent snowballs me. The matches that frustrate me are the ones where someone plays Tirion or some other god tier Arena card on a clear board, and I'm like "wow, I have zero options to deal with that and Ashbringer in my deck - GG".

That is definitely the case of me losing to a single card.

Tirion's definitely a "GG" kind of card, unless you are lucky enough to have drawn one of the few silence or hard removal cards out there. You're just not going to have Black Knight + Coin + Harrison Jones every time!

Cards like that are one of the reasons why I value Shaman and Mage over other classes, because they can turn a threatening minion into a harmless little pipsqueak. The other hard removals trigger deathrattles.

 

[rickyson1]

All I said was that I think Arena's draft would be better if everyone got the same number of rare/epic/legendary draws. I don't think I have a "problem", I just think it would be an improvement on the current design.


The matches that frustrate me aren't the ones where I make mistakes, or where the opponent snowballs me. The matches that frustrate me are the ones where someone plays Tirion or some other god tier Arena card on a clear board, and I'm like "wow, I have zero options to deal with that and Ashbringer in my deck - GG".

That is definitely the case of me losing to a single card.

something like Tirion is so incredibly rare though

I mean....i've played upwards of two thousand arena games and can count on one hand the amount of times i've seen it

as for that rare/epic/legendary thing rares are a pretty mixed bag in general,there's a lot of REALLY bad epics out there and legendaries are both extremely rare and most of them aren't even very good in any case or are too slow most of the time

also you're already guaranteed a rare or higher on your 1st,15th,30th picks

 

[markofhavoc]

something like Tirion is so incredibly rare though

I mean....i've played upwards of two thousand arena games and can count on one hand the amount of times i've seen it

or, in my case, you can get it, and it won't show up in any of the games you play.

 

[Karsticles]

something like Tirion is so incredibly rare though

I mean....i've played upwards of two thousand arena games and can count on one hand the amount of times i've seen it

as for that rare/epic/legendary thing rares are a pretty mixed bag in general,there's a lot of REALLY bad epics out there and legendaries are both extremely rare and most of them aren't even very good in any case or are too slow most of the time

also you're already guaranteed a rare or higher on your 1st,15th,30th picks

I totally agree, but even if the improvement is marginal, I still think it's a good design choice.

Tirion's definitely a "GG" kind of card, unless you are lucky enough to have drawn one of the few silence or hard removal cards out there. You're just not going to have Black Knight + Coin + Harrison Jones every time!

Cards like that are one of the reasons why I value Shaman and Mage over other classes, because they can turn a threatening minion into a harmless little pipsqueak. The other hard removals trigger deathrattles.

I also had someone drop Ysera on me game 1.

Spoiler

I actually won that one somehow, but the point stands!

or, in my case, you can get it, and it won't show up in any of the games you play.

Also, I wish some cards didn't appear in Arena at all. For example, I was making a Rogue deck, and I had one pick that was Eerie Statue / Argent Watchman / Ancient Watcher. What the hell?

 

[embalm]

The matches that frustrate me aren't the ones where I make mistakes, or where the opponent snowballs me. The matches that frustrate me are the ones where someone plays Tirion or some other god tier Arena card on a clear board, and I'm like "wow, I have zero options to deal with that and Ashbringer in my deck - GG".

That is definitely the case of me losing to a single card.

I get what you're saying, I just think you are over exaggerating the effects.

On average all of the decks will be about the same. You will see very bad decks, good decks, and sometimes you'll get beat by a bad deck that curves out perfectly. This is why you get 3 loses. The chances for you to run into 3 insane decks before 5+ wins is pretty low. That's why an above average player can easily play close to infinite arena.

There is RNG in the cards offered to draft, the opponents you play, and what cards you draw. Yet you can out play the RNG most of the time. If this wasn't the case every player would end their run at 3 or 4 wins everytime.

Luckily there are bad players with good decks that let me take my bad deck to 5+ wins.

 

[markofhavoc]

Also, I wish some cards didn't appear in Arena at all. For example, I was making a Rogue deck, and I had one pick that was Eerie Statue / Argent Watchman / Ancient Watcher. What the hell?

You get your wish with c'thun and his followers lol

 

[Karsticles]

I get what you're saying, I just think you are over exaggerating the effects.

On average all of the decks will be about the same. You will see very bad decks, good decks, and sometimes you'll get beat by a bad deck that curves out perfectly. This is why you get 3 loses. The chances for you to run into 3 insane decks before 5+ wins is pretty low. That's why an above average player can easily play close to infinite arena.

There is RNG in the cards offered to draft, the opponents you play, and what cards you draw. Yet you can out play the RNG most of the time. If this wasn't the case every player would end their run at 3 or 4 wins everytime.

Luckily there are bad players with good decks that let me take my bad deck to 5+ wins.

Maybe I am overstating the effects, and maybe I am a bit salty because the last time I played, I DID run into 3 insane decks before even 3 wins, and I was frustrated at losing 50g for no reason. Dahbomb was there, so he's my witness.

You get your wish with c'thun and his followers lol

Oh, did Blizzard say that they wouldn't be part of Arena?

 

[embalm]

I also had someone drop Ysera on me game 1.

Spoiler

I actually won that one somehow, but the point stands!

Oh man I have the ultimate salt story.

Mage vs Pally, we go pretty even, but I have the board & Card advantage on turn 5.
The pally top decks Emperor Thaurisan on turn 6 and plays it.
I use fireball to clear it and go face with 2 minions.
He then plays Harvest Reaper, at a discount... I trade and play minions
He then plays Ysera, at a discount...

I couldn't come back from those combos. I also couldn't believe that he had 3 legendaries... Let alone all 3 in his hand at the same time, and all 3 got discounted by Emperor so that they could be played on curve.

The salt was very real on that day.

That match was a long time ago and I'm pretty sure I posted about it in one of our old OTs. I had a great deck and I think I went 1-3 because I was tilted so hard by that match.

 

[markofhavoc]

Oh, did Blizzard say that they wouldn't be part of Arena?

Yeah, none of them will show up in drafts, since they are kind of useless without each other.

 

[ZealousD]

Yeah, none of them will show up in drafts, since they are kind of useless without each other.

Their stats are good enough that I actually would pick them, interestingly enough.

 

[Emerson]

They actually said it's more because of the fact that every card has rules text references to Cthun and they didn't want it to be weird or confusing having those cards but no Cthun in the deck.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Their stats are good enough that I actually would pick them, interestingly enough.

Yeah...quite a few of those cards are equal or better then some of the other picks you would be offered

 

[markofhavoc]

Their stats are good enough that I actually would pick them, interestingly enough.

True, but a cthun by itself would wreck house lol

 

[BananasWithGuns]

That 4/2 with divine shield almost seems like it would be playable in Standard without even running C'thun.

Edit: Actually I don't even think it's "almost." That card seems legit insane to me.

 

[ZealousD]

That 4/2 with divine shield almost seems like it would be playable in Standard without even running C'thun.

It is a solid body for the cost but I don't think it is much better than Fair. It might be only slightly better than Scarlet Crusader. Although Divine Shield got a lot better with Muster and Haunted Creeper gone.

 

[_DrMario_]

Awesome, waste my fucking time in this shit ass fatigue brawl only to be disconnected near the end and lose.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

It is a solid body for the cost but I don't think it is much better than Fair. It might be only slightly better than Scarlet Crusader. Although Divine Shield got a lot better with Muster and Haunted Creeper gone.

I think unless you're really behind on board then it's almost guaranteed to trade up isn't it? Or at he very least a 2 for 1.

More I think about it the more the card looks crazy strong to me.

 

[fertygo]

or, in my case, you can get it, and it won't show up in any of the games you play.

LOL When I draft Tirion I goes 2-3

(((

 

[gutshot]

I think unless you're really behind on board then it's almost guaranteed to trade up isn't it? Or at he very least a 2 for 1.

More I think about it the more the card looks crazy strong to me.

Definitely seems good in Arena at least. Too bad it won't be offered.

 

[Nirolak]

I think unless you're really behind on board then it's almost guaranteed to trade up isn't it? Or at he very least a 2 for 1.

More I think about it the more the card looks crazy strong to me.

Yeti and Sen'jin would trade with it evenly, or more generally, 5 health minions with four cost and at least 2 damage.

Edit:

These cards sans what's in Naxx and GvG: http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards?filt...ter-attack-val=2&filter-attack-op=2&display=3

 

[Catvoca]

That 4/2 with divine shield almost seems like it would be playable in Standard without even running C'thun.

Edit: Actually I don't even think it's "almost." That card seems legit insane to me.

I mean it's just a 4 mana version scarlet crusader which is only an ok card (pretty good in arena though). With the C'thun text i'm sure it'll get played but I wouldn't go overboard.

Yeti and Sen'jin would trade with it evenly, or more generally, 5 health minions with four cost and at least 2 damage.

Yep, there's always hero power pings too. I imagine high health 4 drops are gonna replace shredder as well, making it a little weaker.

 

[Gentle Rodriguez]

LOL When I draft Tirion I goes 2-3

(((

Legendaries are overrated, an 8 mana card isn't going to save bad curve/cards, most games are won/lost way before you can even play your legendaries.

 

[Nirolak]

Yep, there's always hero power pings too. I imagine high health 4 drops are gonna replace shredder as well, making it a little weaker.

The setup is pretty reasonable in general for those criteria:
- Water Elemental
- Sen'jin
- Yeti
- Fireguard Destroyer
- Holy Champion
- Elise
- Auchenai
- Twilight Guardian
- Hungry Dragon*
- Violet Teacher
- Refreshment Vendor

Without Shredder, I'm interested to see how that slot fills out.

That said, this can make reasonable trades in those scenarios, and potentially quite good trades, so I think it will be totally fine in a C'Thun deck.

 

[peakish]

Ridiculously stupid. Play some "proper" decks and lose every game. Switch to the most stupid Face Hunter deck possible for a quest and go on a streak immediately.

I didn't even know I had Brann in there! But got a nice Ram Wrangler combo with him, lol. Suddenly, Malorne!

 

[rickyson1]

I got mixed feelings as far as the whole no C'Thun in arena thing goes but gotta say it's made for a pretty boring week as far as card announcements go as someone that only cares about arena

nothing but C'Thun cards since Sunday

 

[ZealousD]

I think unless you're really behind on board then it's almost guaranteed to trade up isn't it? Or at he very least a 2 for 1.

More I think about it the more the card looks crazy strong to me.

Rogue could dagger backstab. Mage could ping frostbolt. The only 4 drops it truly threatens are 5/4s. This thing isn't even close to Shredder.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Starting to believe the pity timer is real. Gotten three legendaries in the past week after getting almost nothing for months.

 

[Drkirby]

Starting to believe the pity timer is real. Gotten three legendaries in the past week after getting almost nothing for months.

Pity Timer is such a lame term. Your odds to get a legendary uses a Pseudo Random Number generator, so after about 40 packs you have a 100% chance to get a legendary. Its a mechanic utilized heavily in WC3 for all its random chances (And the mechanic was ported to Dota 2 for most of its RNG abilities). I'm sure a number of other games use it for their RNG too, those are just what I know off the top of my head.

 

[ZealousD]

Starting to believe the pity timer is real. Gotten three legendaries in the past week after getting almost nothing for months.

The pity timer is real. Your odds of getting a Legendary improve with each pack opening until you get one. And you are guaranteed to open one after 40 packs. It then resets after you get one. This is tracked independently for each set.

 

[Owzers]

It feels like i haven't gotten a legendary in a long time....but i also stopped opening packs outside of watch and learn/brawls to save gold for Old Gods.

I better get an old god legendary with my first pack, not counting C'Thun!

Would it count C'thun? Should i open standard packs till i get a legendary?

 

[Chmpocalypse]

This just isn't true. I know it seems that way because you are newer, but there are many common cards that beat legendaries. In addition to that legendary, epic and some rare cards are pretty terrible in arena because they often have niche synergy. You rarely lose to a deck purely on card value. When you do it's usually good commons and rares though, not legendary cards.

Arena is the place to go for a fair playing field, especially if you have a small card collection. At two months of experience you are just not as good as the majority of people who play that format. They have 2 years of experience and have had time to analyze every single card as they released. They also have hundreds of more games played than you.

Also Arena can easily be shown to be skill based. If it wasn't we wouldn't have players who can run it infinity, averaging over 7+ wins per run.

So give arena a few more chances. It's a very rewarding format that depends on good drafting skill(or help from a draft program) and knowledge of the game's basic mechanics such as tempo, card advantage, and trading.

Great post and advice.

 

[Apathy]

seriously fuck this brawl, every time I'm in a massive leave my opponent just happens to have mass dispell, fuck that.

 

[ZealousD]

Pity Timer is such a lame term. Your odds to get a legendary uses a Pseudo Random Number generator, so after about 40 packs you have a 100% chance to get a legendary. Its a mechanic utilized heavily in WC3 for all its random chances (And the mechanic was ported to Dota 2 for most of its RNG abilities). I'm sure a number of other games use it for their RNG too, those are just what I know off the top of my head.

Pity timer is separate from RNG. RNG is called pseudo random because they use a seed to generate the results, but the nature of RNG does not mean that the seed itself guarantees you a Legendary in 40 packs. That mechanic has to be specifically coded in by Blizzard.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Everyone else keeps telling me it's all about skill, so it looks like you agree with me.


I know it - that's my point!

Managing RNG is a skill.

 

[ZealousD]

It feels like i haven't gotten a legendary in a long time....but i also stopped opening packs outside of watch and learn/brawls to save gold for Old Gods.

I better get an old god legendary with my first pack, not counting C'Thun!

Would it count C'thun? Should i open standard packs till i get a legendary?

The pity timer is separate for each set. Opening standard packs does not affect the pity timer for Old Gods, or vice versa.

 

[Karsticles]

Managing RNG is a skill.

How do I manage the RNG of which cards show up in Arena drafts?

 

[Tarazet]

Managing RNG is a skill.

Got me a win as Zoo against a golden Control Priest yesterday. I needed 1 more point of face damage and had a Knife Juggler on my board, he had two dudes and I had two more I could put on the board. I did the permutation math in my head, 5 in 9 chance was in my favor so I played it and he died. Otherwise I was dead the next turn without removing something.

 

[Tacitus_]

Twin Emperors?

How do I manage the RNG of which cards show up in Arena drafts?

You take the ones that fit your deck the best and try to play around what the opponent would've liked to draft.

 

[Magnus]

Seeing the new class epics and legendary minions during the slow drip TGT reveals was kind of exciting. Hoping for the same here....any word on whether there'll be class legendaries?

 

[Apathy]

Twin Emperors?

You take the ones that fit your deck the best and try to play around what the opponent would've liked to draft.

Yeah twin emperors. woooo I said they would be in.

edit, nvm, forgot about innervate, backstab and whatnot
BTW with this brawl, you get a spell based on the card cost, what spell do you get if you put down a minion that is worth 0?

 

[Tacitus_]

Seeing the new class epics and legendary minions during the slow drip TGT reveals was kind of exciting. Hoping for the same here....any word on whether there'll be class legendaries?

GvG and GT both had class legendaries. 90% chance that there will be in WOG

BTW with this brawl, you get a spell based on the card cost, what spell do you get if you put down a minion that is worth 0?

Crash the game. Or maybe the Coin?