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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Portugeezer
Member
Tentacle
Why do you think they're nerfing the classes that dominated that tournament?
Not just compared with druid. You can't do simple things without death's bite. Execute is a lot worse. You can't draw cards, Gromm is worse, armorsmith is worse. It's not just a weapon. Playing whirlwind is bad, it won't really help and you have to cut something for a low impact card. It only made sense to put it in patron.
Karsticles
Member
I think Warrior, Hunter, and Shaman need changes, but they're all easy to fix:
Warrior - give +2 armor to the Hero, or +1 health to a target minion.
Hunter - deal 2 damage to the opposing Hero, or +1 attack to a target minion.
These are easy because they both correlate with the Mage's hero power - either negate the 1 damage with +1 health, or let a minion do that 1 extra damage. The Hunter power can't be as versatile on the board as the Mage power because it does 2 face damage, but it still provides an option for playing a board-based deck to some degree.
The Shaman power should either let you choose a totem, or be redesigned entirely. No ideas here.
The Warlock power gets a lot of complaints, but I really like it. The only change I might want to make to it is to be able to suck 2 life from one of your minions to heal for 2, but it might not even get used.
Back in the day Control Warriors ran a Wild Pyromancer. I imagine some of them will try again, while others will try to reinvent the entire deck.
This was on top of two Whirlwinds and two Cruel Taskmasters generally.
It's entirely possible that they just stop running cards like Armorsmith and Gromm. Blizzard said their goal is to get 10 or less cards from the Basic/Classic cards used in any high end deck. While they felt they wouldn't reach that goal this time, if they're headed in that direction, a lot of cards are going to have to fall out of favor.
Cursed Blade. Cursed blade can lose you the game before you can react, Tentacles is just a waste of mana.
I'm lttp but that new rogue legendary is pretty cool. It'll be great with gadgetzan if that sort of deck survives the nerfs. That Warrior card though....Blizzard really has not know what to do with Warrior weapons since they made Death's Bite. I bet they are very glad it's leaving standard.
I'm surprised to see so many people worried about the viability of Warrior without it though, I feel like control warrior has always been a top tier deck, even before Naxx. I'm sure it'll still be strong no matter what happens when standard is brought in, it might just be slightly weaker.
I'm surprised to see so many people worried about the viability of Warrior without it though, I feel like control warrior has always been a top tier deck, even before Naxx. I'm sure it'll still be strong no matter what happens when standard is brought in, it might just be slightly weaker.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Death's bite being an enabler for execute was one of the strongest things in the game. Essentially makes assassinate look like a joke while death's bite already can trade 2-1, it essentially enables a 1 mana assassinate on top of that. Now they'll have to run execute enablers like taskmaster, which isn't even much of a downside anyway.
Fireball isn't in every mage deck. Fatigue mage doesn't run it and neither does the echo of mediev mage and sometimes control mage.
Fireball isn't in every mage deck. Fatigue mage doesn't run it and neither does the echo of mediev mage and sometimes control mage.
I have seen Fireball in all of those decks. It's very efficient removal. Why wouldn't a fatigue mage run it?
Karsticles
Member
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Polymorph to deal with stickier threats, or forgotten torch to get extra card draw, or perhaps only running a single fireball. I recall in gvg playing a lot of fatigue mage decks that didn't run fireball or if they did it was a 1 of. Fireball's edge comes in because you can hit a minion or face, but if you only ever need to hit minions, then other cards stand out more, or with forgotten torch having the additional card draw stands out more.
Professor Lich
Member
So far we have only seen new cards revealed, right? We've only heard about what cards might be changed, but nothing confirmed?
Correct.
Yeah, that's right. I'm sure they'll announce the card changes all in one go, and probably very close to the release .
Officerrob
Banned
The said card changes will be announced about a week before the expansion hits
Yeah, Blizzard basically said they are going to announce the nerfs as late as possible. We may not find out about them until the day the expansion hits.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
So the new rogue legendary...
I think it is interesting. Also because the other rogue minion helps create a card advantage, maybe we'll see some kind of hand rogue.
As for stats... 3/3 or 4/2 and the card seems a lot more appealing. It just seems like a lot to spend on low stats to get mediocre cards. It guess it'll be easier to judge once the rest of the cards and card nerfs are announced... and played with.
The toxins seem okay and kinda make this minion worth playing on turn 5 to get use of the toxin immediately if needed.
In terms of deck building, seems like they continue to push rogue in the deathrattle route. I guess nzoth rogue makes sense.
I think it is interesting. Also because the other rogue minion helps create a card advantage, maybe we'll see some kind of hand rogue.
As for stats... 3/3 or 4/2 and the card seems a lot more appealing. It just seems like a lot to spend on low stats to get mediocre cards. It guess it'll be easier to judge once the rest of the cards and card nerfs are announced... and played with.
The toxins seem okay and kinda make this minion worth playing on turn 5 to get use of the toxin immediately if needed.
In terms of deck building, seems like they continue to push rogue in the deathrattle route. I guess nzoth rogue makes sense.
go_straight
Banned
Yeah, play a 10 mana minion to get back on board a 2/2 and a 3/2... not really worth it.
Karsticles
Member
If you only played 2 minions in 10 turns, I guess that's on you.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Plus 4 other deathrattle minions you played that game.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Fiery War Axe is better then that Warrior weapon.
Like I would rather play Fiery War Axe in every single situation I would play that and it costs 3 mana less.
Like I would rather play Fiery War Axe in every single situation I would play that and it costs 3 mana less.
Professor Lich
Member
Thanks for the responses guys, was just double checking!
go_straight
Banned
It's still not worth it. A bunch of vanilla low stats minions are irrelevant on turn 10 if they don't have powerful effects.
Like it was already said you want to play N'Zoth for Tirion, Sylvanas and the like. Also Belcher and maybe Shredder in wild.
Karsticles
Member
So...play those? What are you getting at?
There won't be. Epic cards in every set mostly tend to be really awful than playable for some reason.
Karsticles
Member
Epics are supposed to tie together deck themes, bringing them to culmination in viability. The problem arises when the theme doesn't lead to anything great. For a good example, Shield Slam gives justification to all of the armor cards CW plays. For a bad example, Dark Bargain is extemely strong if you have already ditched most of your hand through other discard effects.
go_straight
Banned
Right now rouge doesn't have strong deathrattle minions, and the strong neutral ones are leaving standard (except Sylavana and maybe a other few). What are you going to play? the new 2/2, the new legendary, anub'arak, tomb pillager, loot hoarder, ecc.? They are all pretty much irrelevant since don't do anything the turn you play n'zoth. It's the same concept why people don't play anyfin with random murlocs.
Maybe standard will be so slow that you can make a play like that and win, but I doubt it.
The core pholoiphy seems to be that they are cards to build a deck around. You get something like Mysterious Challenger for Secret Paly, Preparation for the Miracle Rogue style, Gorehound for Control Warrior, Lock and Load for a spell heavy miracle hunter, Feign Death for Death Rattle Hunter, Sabotage for Control Rogue, Echo for Echo Mage, Ice Block for Freeze Mage, Ancestor's Call for Malogos Shaman, Sea Reaver as a Whirlwind/Patron Warrior tool, Demonheart is for an Aggressive Warlock Demon deck, Anima Golem is for a Zoo Warlock, Siltfin Spiritwalker is for Murloc Shaman, the list goes on and on.
Most of them are designed to build a deck or archetype around. Some (Most?) fall flat, but it pretty easy to see what Blizzard is going for with most of them.
Except right now, I don't see what Blizard is going for with Tentacles for Arm. Well, I shouldn't say that, they are going for a tool that is good in long, fatigue games. I don't get why they think its a good tool though. Maybe if N'zoth also summoned Death Rattle Weapons, but he doesn't.
Karsticles
Member
We don't know all of the "rouge" cards yet, so judgement is premature.
You know, since it looks like Blizzard is giving the streamers mostly the Epics and Legendaries, and that the steamer pool will dry up around April 10th, I think they are going to reveal the full expansion between the 10th and 15th, and the expansion will come out the week after, around the 18th to 22nd.
Super Nothing
Member
It's still bad.
BananasWithGuns
Member
I say to expect early May until Blizzard says otherwise. Can't be disappointed that way.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
Maybe if it cost 4 the first time and 2 every time after.
toddhunter
Member
Yep, arathi weaponsmith is way better and you could even feel the urge to bounce it back if you wanted to.
Which you wouldn't, which is good, because you wouldn't be running it.
The rogue card is amazing. The big thing the class was lacking was easy combo enablers, and this guy will most likely give you two extra ones. This includes perhaps a bonus shadowstep, which enables all sorts of bullshit. Remember C'Thun is lurking.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
The idea was that it is cheaper every time. 5 4 3 2 1 0
Professor Lich
Member
Only two things come to mind for me. The first is Spiteful Smith. You'd have an 'endless' 4 attack weapon. There's also Orgrimmar Aspirant, which could work out as well, but it ends up being really clunky since it resets to 2 after every weapon breaks. Thinking about it like that, it would be really cool if the weapon carried over any buffs from things like Orgrimmar Aspirant or Upgrade.
But outside of mechanics that don't exist yet, I can't think of anything.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
There is nothing wrong with sylvanas in rogue. I also think it is really silly that you say n'zoth's impact would be irrelevant. If it summons 6 minions, we're talking about putting out something like 36+ stats on the board from a single card, each with deathrattle except for n'zoth itself. That is on the low end of stats, assuming 4 stats per minion.
It's at least worth being open minded about.
LucidMomentum
Member
It's too easy to play with tempo mage.
The rogue legendary is actually awful in raptor rogue. You don't play a 4 mana 3/2 in a 1-2-3 curve midrange deck. Most of the spells aren't even very useful for that deck.
Miracle decks benefit from every outcome, even the stealth part. It's also not a huge blow to play 4 mana 3/2 in there as you will be able to setup really stupid turns later on. The card makes a lot more sense in there. Just because it has deathrattle, doesn't mean it's good for a deathrattle themed deck.
I actually don't get how people think raptor rogue is coming back when the deck is mediocre at best when we have all these broken deathrattle cards right now. Because of N'Zoth? Nah. not happening, not with the cards we've seen anyway. A 10 mana cards isn't going to help that deck.
'Blizzard is pushing it, so it's going to be a thing' isn't good reasoning either. Blizzard has been pushing a lot of deck ideas, most of them have been really really bad. Yeah, we had Ben Brode openly pushing for Camel Hunter and Bolster Warrior! We have murloc shaman...dragon warrior and paladin also, those two were okish at least.
Miracle decks benefit from every outcome, even the stealth part. It's also not a huge blow to play 4 mana 3/2 in there as you will be able to setup really stupid turns later on. The card makes a lot more sense in there. Just because it has deathrattle, doesn't mean it's good for a deathrattle themed deck.
I actually don't get how people think raptor rogue is coming back when the deck is mediocre at best when we have all these broken deathrattle cards right now. Because of N'Zoth? Nah. not happening, not with the cards we've seen anyway. A 10 mana cards isn't going to help that deck.
'Blizzard is pushing it, so it's going to be a thing' isn't good reasoning either. Blizzard has been pushing a lot of deck ideas, most of them have been really really bad. Yeah, we had Ben Brode openly pushing for Camel Hunter and Bolster Warrior! We have murloc shaman...dragon warrior and paladin also, those two were okish at least.
since like almost 3 week man