TheChewyWaffles
Member
When Is the blizzcon card back unlocking? Do they need to patch it in?
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Hearthstone |OT5| Corrupted Deeprock Salt
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
Spells do seem to be the crux of what can define a class or class changes going forward. Having a core kit or set of spells makes the impossible possible. They're the catalysts to the enablers (minions).
Rogue's not getting a spell in their line-up this expansion just means less room for growth, even if the minions are amazing (who knows if they will be). I'd even settle for a crappy spell just for the potential possibilities.
Rogue's not getting a spell in their line-up this expansion just means less room for growth, even if the minions are amazing (who knows if they will be). I'd even settle for a crappy spell just for the potential possibilities.
I think part of the problem with Rogue is that Blizzard has really tried to do weird stuff with their minions. Make them interact with weapons. Give them a lot of combo effects. The general game plan of Rogue has been "if you play minions on curve, they are below average. If you play minions comboed off other cards, it is hyper efficient"
The problem is that this means rogues can't play the minion tempo game where you play a minion on 2, play a minion on 3, play a minion on 4, etc etc. And that's where the game is now. Rogue can't just rely on strong value plays through card comboes anymore.
This is probably why Blizzard is now keen on giving rogues additional minions into their kit. Especially something like Unearthed Raptor, which is fucking disgusting. Now you're going to see rogues playing haunted creeper, nerubian egg, and following with Unearthed Raptor, so that they can join the same cancer with everybody else.
Like, seriously. Rogues are going to play Nerubian Egg on Turn 2 and suddently you have to start asking the question as to whether or not you should pop it for them!
The problem is that this means rogues can't play the minion tempo game where you play a minion on 2, play a minion on 3, play a minion on 4, etc etc. And that's where the game is now. Rogue can't just rely on strong value plays through card comboes anymore.
This is probably why Blizzard is now keen on giving rogues additional minions into their kit. Especially something like Unearthed Raptor, which is fucking disgusting. Now you're going to see rogues playing haunted creeper, nerubian egg, and following with Unearthed Raptor, so that they can join the same cancer with everybody else.
Like, seriously. Rogues are going to play Nerubian Egg on Turn 2 and suddently you have to start asking the question as to whether or not you should pop it for them!
Yeah they have the tools to interact with it. They'll probably throw Abusive Sergent in there too, because they can.
So, it's unlikely Murloc takes off, but I wanted to talk about them for a moment.
Everyfin Is Awesome:
So, the only way I see this being good is if you have (at least) 3 murlocs on the board and play it for 4. Blessing of Kings gets played as a +4/+4 buff on minions for 4 mana, so that's good enough to get played, but it's also not a card that's included in every Paladin deck. Having +4/+4 in stats for 5 would be unideal. +6/+6 in stats for 4 on the other hand would obviously be great. I see the main issue here as getting that many murlocs to stick on the board, ideally at around or shortly after turn 4 to boot. Now obviously if you get a huge blowout and get +8/+8 for 3 or +10/+10 for 2 it's amazing, but that was probably a match you were winning anyway.
Anyfin Can Happen:
This one actually seems more plausible to me. Like, let's just go over the gameplan for Murloc Paladin for a moment. 1.) Flood the board with murlocs. 2.) Divine Favor. 3.) Flood the board with murlocs again. At this point we'd be adding in 4.) Revive 7 murlocs and potentially 5.) Revive 7 murlocs. If you've made it to turn 10, you haven't died, and you haven't won, that's actually a pretty fantastic effect. I saw some people going "But what if 7 murlocs haven't died?" Like, who cares. It's turn 10, you're playing a murloc deck, and you somehow have neither died nor lost all your minions. Things are already going well, and your board is basically guaranteed to be full the instant you play this card, along with some potentially very strong buffs and charges.
Now, Paladin currently has two very strong deck archetypes, so I'm not sure anyone would bother running Murloc Paladin, but it does actually feel a lot further along in feasibility than Murloc Shaman to me.
Everyfin Is Awesome:
So, the only way I see this being good is if you have (at least) 3 murlocs on the board and play it for 4. Blessing of Kings gets played as a +4/+4 buff on minions for 4 mana, so that's good enough to get played, but it's also not a card that's included in every Paladin deck. Having +4/+4 in stats for 5 would be unideal. +6/+6 in stats for 4 on the other hand would obviously be great. I see the main issue here as getting that many murlocs to stick on the board, ideally at around or shortly after turn 4 to boot. Now obviously if you get a huge blowout and get +8/+8 for 3 or +10/+10 for 2 it's amazing, but that was probably a match you were winning anyway.
Anyfin Can Happen:
This one actually seems more plausible to me. Like, let's just go over the gameplan for Murloc Paladin for a moment. 1.) Flood the board with murlocs. 2.) Divine Favor. 3.) Flood the board with murlocs again. At this point we'd be adding in 4.) Revive 7 murlocs and potentially 5.) Revive 7 murlocs. If you've made it to turn 10, you haven't died, and you haven't won, that's actually a pretty fantastic effect. I saw some people going "But what if 7 murlocs haven't died?" Like, who cares. It's turn 10, you're playing a murloc deck, and you somehow have neither died nor lost all your minions. Things are already going well, and your board is basically guaranteed to be full the instant you play this card, along with some potentially very strong buffs and charges.
Now, Paladin currently has two very strong deck archetypes, so I'm not sure anyone would bother running Murloc Paladin, but it does actually feel a lot further along in feasibility than Murloc Shaman to me.
Even if Control Rogue doesn't work after this set, with the next full sized expansion I think it's almost assured to be viable. Those come with what, usually at least seven class cards?
It will also be really clear what Control Rogue needs by then, so they can just make those last couple of cards to make it work like they did for Dragon Priest.
It will also be really clear what Control Rogue needs by then, so they can just make those last couple of cards to make it work like they did for Dragon Priest.
You forgot to throw in the Leper Gnome on Turn 1.
I don't think tempo rogue would play Leper Gnome actually.
They'd probably play that weapon pirate...
There's not much new in the Hearthpwn interview except confirming they're making more hero portraits and making it clear that they intend to add more dailies like "watch and learn" that just automatically give you an expert card pack.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/1084-exclusive-hearthstone-dev-interview-with-yong-woo
The Q&A at the Fireside Chat was pretty extensive I felt (confirming formats and a new ranking system), so I don't see this as a big issue.
Also, while they are clearly interested in tournaments, it sounds like that's a long way off.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/news/1084-exclusive-hearthstone-dev-interview-with-yong-woo
The Q&A at the Fireside Chat was pretty extensive I felt (confirming formats and a new ranking system), so I don't see this as a big issue.
Also, while they are clearly interested in tournaments, it sounds like that's a long way off.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Seems like they might be hesitant about selling more hero portraits, or at least that's what I took away from "what's the best way to distribute them" part.
They must have sold pretty poorly.
They must have sold pretty poorly.
Good. Shit was kinda ridiculous.
Onion_Relish
Member
Hero portraits for 10 are simply too expensive. People would probably rather buy 12 or so packs. I think 5 bucks is the pricing sweet spot
Well whatever the 1-drops end up being. Pit Snake and Abusive being other possibilities.
Point is that everybody is going to try and be running 1-drops after this expansion. Almost like your deck won't be viable unless it includes a 1-drop. That might be the only thing that keeps Desert Camel in check.
toddhunter
Member
There is still nothing better than beating a face hunter who paid a high price for a fancy picture on their screen.
I think the main problem with Rogue is that you have two choices:
a) Play the one oil rogue deck that works
b) Get fucked over every time you go first.
The new expansion is potentially giving some options, but they could have avoided that by making cutpurse make sense.
That makes sense...except Murloc Shaman is still move viable because Paladin has multiple insane other options. If you just want to flood shit, you can be doing a lot better by turn 10! On the other hand, if you are playing Shaman, you might as well give the little guys a go.
That said, I do wonder how Hearthstone will look in 2018. 245 murloc cards!
I remain totally unconvinced over the 'strategic depth' (or really much value at all) in Discover, but meh. Rest of the interview sounded good - interested to see what they do about formats.
That's a bit extreme. I don'the think Freeze Mage will be forced to use Zombie Chow just because of that card.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
I've yet to hear a better idea than my own, to use them as the equivalent of "starter decks." Pay 10-15 dollars, get an alt hero and a 30-card semi viable deck. Sell the portrait alone for 5. Good for new players. Good for everyone.
Trigger_happy
Member
The only relevant decks which don't run 1 drops are midrange druid (most of the times), control/patron warrior and freeze mage (irrelevant on ladder). Against most other decks Desert camel loses 1 stat point and gives your opponent 1 mana minion "with charge", i don't see how this card is going to be that influential.
That's probably true. But any minion-based deck will probably need to.
Glad you're thinking about these cards. I've been, too, and I want to put my thoughts out there.
First off, both cards feel like 2-halves of the same whole. Like, perhaps at one point they existed on one class, but then got split up for whatever reason. Maybe too powerful--who knows. But, I think it's clear that they come from the same design space. And it upsets me that apparently they couldn't have co-existed.
Next up, I don't think Everyfin Is Awesome is necessarily a bad card, However, had it been 6-mana base or +3/+3 or (2) less for every murloc, then I'm of the opinion that it could have found a very nice home among murloc decks. As it acts now, that 7-mana is meant to correspond with the 7 Battlefield slots (obviously). A full board of murlocs = 0 cost spell. The problem is you cannot do this in the same turn as you play your murlocs, lowering its usage as a late game card and nullifying its cost-cutting tempo usage. Thus, it probably will never be worth setting up. Contrast this with something like Muster for Battle + Quartermaster, an 8-mana combo, but essentially with the same effect, a much more consistent one. With EIA, you risk losing your entire board if you happen to wait for turn 7. Plus, without a "muster for murlocs", you have to spend precious cards from your hand to populate the board.
Of course... with the introduction of Explorer's League, there are some neat ways to do so. Brann Bronzebeard + Murloc Tidehunter = 3 murlocs for the price of 1. Brann + Neptulon = 8 murloc cards. Sir Finley Mrrgglton and Tinyfin are cheap activators for the spell. Naga Sea Witch Turn 5--EIA Turn 6. This spell is also 1) Permanent; 2) Affects ALL Your minions, not just one tribe; 3) Gives +health. So it could be a better alternative to Bloodlust. And thanks to the way Violet Teacher and Summoning Stone work, it will also buff the minions summoned.
The worry is, as always, that it'll be too slow or inefficient, especially compared to Power of the Wild or Mysterious Challenger summoning Competitive Spirit to buff all your minions. To combat this, one would have to find the stickiest minions available so that something survives to take the buff.
Anyfin Can Happen: You described the absolute best way to tackle this spell. It doesn't matter if/how/when your early murlocs die. You'll get them back. It's a card which Murloc Knight could perpetuate by itself. You may only ever want to carry one. The only trouble is... do you give up the existing Paladin decks to work with it? The short answer probably is 'not worth it'. I almost wish they had given Paladin another minion card and instead gave this one to Shaman, which is by far the best class suited for it (which isn't saying much). Heck, Paladin has too many Silver Hand Recruit shenanigans to even consider Murlocs the time of day.
toddhunter
Member
Nobody is going to run desert camel. You can't run everything and most decks will have a 1-drop and you can't plan ahead.
Desert Camel would get run if Animal companion didn't exist. Animal Companion puts down a 4 cost minion for 3, it's extremely tough to beat.
Technically so does Desert Camel if your opponent doesn't have a 1 drop. In an aggressive tempo meta it's very likely that your opponent has a 1 drop in their deck and if they do this card is just a Leokk with no special ability.
The question is if Hunters would bother putting Injured Kvaldir in their decks just so they can get two 2/4s on turn 3. It also combos with Knife Juggler so their 1 drop might get removed that way.
Technically so does Desert Camel if your opponent doesn't have a 1 drop. In an aggressive tempo meta it's very likely that your opponent has a 1 drop in their deck and if they do this card is just a Leokk with no special ability.
The question is if Hunters would bother putting Injured Kvaldir in their decks just so they can get two 2/4s on turn 3. It also combos with Knife Juggler so their 1 drop might get removed that way.
People putting mediocre cards into their decks just so some other card can pull it into the field for free?
I'm sure we don't have any precedent for that...
BananasWithGuns
Member
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
All of them
toddhunter
Member
There is a reason people were bringing Patron warrior. It is a good deck still in general, but it completely fucks over secret paladin.
You start saving up your gold and buy each quarter when it comes out per week.
None of this giving Blizzard real money if you don't have to.
FormallyFamicom
Member
The 10g you get for every three wins stops at 100g for the day.
Trigger_happy
Member
Xixo still salty.
You highly overrate that camel lol.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
The camel is fine I think. Most decks do run at least 1 or 2 1 drops, zombie chow for example is going to be a big deterrent because it is bigger than any 1 drop hunter likely will be running. The small twist is that hunter can use their minion first if it is a charge minion or draw out an extra 2 damage off leper gnome.
In a way its really good because it thins your deck by 1 card and plays 2 minions, in another way it isn't a charge minion itself so... we'll see. I think it is among the top cards being introduced though. Could be that people decide the risk or meta is not worth running the card.
In a way its really good because it thins your deck by 1 card and plays 2 minions, in another way it isn't a charge minion itself so... we'll see. I think it is among the top cards being introduced though. Could be that people decide the risk or meta is not worth running the card.
A charge 1-drop? There's only one with proper charge and that would never be run. Maybe you could get a lucky Turn 2 Glaivezooka into Camel that draws Southsea Deckhand but the chances of that would be pretty slim. While I don't think it's a bad card, the other player is almost always going to get value off the Camel first if they haven't already drawn their 1-drops. If you really wanted to pick 1-drops while aiming to get immediate value off Camel draw, Tournament Attendee would probably be a better pick than the charge minions.
It could definitely lead to some rough scenarios if you don't have an immediate answer for the enemy 1-drop. Drawing a Secret Paladin their Secretkeeper so they can get extra value from the secrets in their hand that they would have played anyway to fill out their mana curve would allow it to survive trading with the 1-Drop or a 2-Drop if you've played one previously.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Turn 2 glaivezooka is extremely common, but also later in the game having a weapon equipped and playing camel.
Or brave hunter to work off inspire for bonus hero power damage. Leper gnome as well. The stealthed worgen. There are a couple 1 drops that could justify including camel in hunter.