-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Hearthstone |OT7/7| _ Give Tyrande | _ Blizzard: Give Amazon Money
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
- Status
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
And this is Kripp's analogy for how that answer sounds:
https://www.twitch.tv/nl_kripp/v/81450245?t=06h10m50s
Even so, Babbling Book could be a common. It's not like it's such a complicated of a card that it completely violates their rule about rarity relating to ease of use.
I half suspect they straight up forgot about arena, or somehow didn't think Firestorm portal to be that good of an arena card, and now it's too late to fix after they've announced it.
If they cared about Arena, they'd have a unique rarity system for it. Every decent arena deck is basically required to have the staple commons like Muster for Battle, Zombie Chow and Flamestrike these days. They're much more important than any Epics or Legendaries you could pick.
less gold per day is bad.
The Babbling Book/Firelands situation is even more confusing when you realize that Web Spinner is a common. So clearly Babbling Book being rare is not an issue of complexity, they went out of their way to make it a Rare and make Firelands a Common.
Blizzard simply messed up. That's all there is to it.
LMAO @ Kripp's analogy.
Blizzard simply messed up. That's all there is to it.
LMAO @ Kripp's analogy.
Kripp is a god.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Perfect.
How many times have they said they're "maybe thinking about some kind of engineering to give us a bit more control of arena, that would be cool, very awesome but we're not sure about it, but we're DEFINITELY thinking about it" in order to handwave the plethora of simple solutions put forward by their players for years
I wish I could just stop reading Brode's non-answers, curiosity always gets the better of me and I walk away a little bit dumber. Guy is the definition of all talk
I wish I could just stop reading Brode's non-answers, curiosity always gets the better of me and I walk away a little bit dumber. Guy is the definition of all talk
Except people memeing with Mill Rogues and Mill Priests (keep bouncing those hand-clogging powerword shields, healing circles and divine spirits around until you draw Inner Fire)
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
Even terrible cards like Majordomo are, at worst, one dead draw. You can choose not to play it. Malchezaar adds 5 likely dead draws to your deck and one pit fighter. Drawing a random legendary at any turn means your not drawing one of the cards you build your deck around, one that synergizes with your hand and board.
Even if you run a deck with value cards but no particular synergy, you still need to draw answers to hold of aggro decks, not to mention you already put the worthwhile legendaries in your deck so your not going to generate them with Malchezaar.
The best comparisons to Malchezaar are cards like Flame Leviathan, cards with a potentially negative effect you cannot control. But even that card can find a place in a control mage deck where you don't run minions.
I think I read basically this same paragraph about Elise. How unplayable she was and even worst you needed to play 3 cards...statistics and charts all over the place saying how bad and terrible the card was.
All know how that ended.
toddhunter
Member
Completely correct until standard?
Just look at what happened with deckslot, "too confusing for new players" to "we're working on it", "we're waiting to do it right" and in the end all we got was a freaking scroll bar that took over a year to come out. I wouldn't expect anything really.
They're far more concerned about those "low hanging fruits" than the substantial issues of the game, mainly being widely out of balance in every mode.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
The difference is that with Elise, you can control when to cycle your dead cards into legendaries. When you know you no longer need your brawls in a warrior vs priest matchup, you can turn in into random big minions and even if you get boogeymonster thats not a terrible deal. However, Malchezaar takes effect from the start, and any card getting in front of your fiery war axe or swipe or hellfire can be game losing.
It's essentially the benefit of adding a single tech card (improved consistency against control vs control matchups that go into fatigue), with the cost of adding six tech cards (decreased consistency against all other matchups).
Elise was much more popular prior to Standard, when it was a staple in Priest.
For other control decks these days there are more win conditions so its optional.
I made a few rough calculation about Malchezaar and about half the cards are bad or below average.
This includes cards that are great in some deck, but bad in any other deck like c'thun and twin emperor.
Obvious they are good in a C'thun deck, but you only get them from Malchezaarr if you aren't playing that deck.
On average you get 1 pit fighter( a medicore card) 2-3 bad to below average legendaries and 2-3 decent to great ones, but never fanatasic since you are alreay playing those.
In arean it depends on how bad you deck is. If you have the amazing cards and a perfect curve, you don't want this cards.
Even when the other cards are bad it might still be better to pick one of them since it's still better than 2-3 bad/belowe average cards.
However, if you deck is bad, you might as well pick him (assuming the other picks aren't great) and hope for the best,since you don't have much to lose.
Not to mention that a 5/6 is pretty good in arena.
As for Elise, she found her niche for the control vs control match ups, but is basically a worse yeti anywhere else.
I don't see how Malchezaarr would be useful, unless fatgue is suddenly a way bigger problem.
This includes cards that are great in some deck, but bad in any other deck like c'thun and twin emperor.
Obvious they are good in a C'thun deck, but you only get them from Malchezaarr if you aren't playing that deck.
On average you get 1 pit fighter( a medicore card) 2-3 bad to below average legendaries and 2-3 decent to great ones, but never fanatasic since you are alreay playing those.
In arean it depends on how bad you deck is. If you have the amazing cards and a perfect curve, you don't want this cards.
Even when the other cards are bad it might still be better to pick one of them since it's still better than 2-3 bad/belowe average cards.
However, if you deck is bad, you might as well pick him (assuming the other picks aren't great) and hope for the best,since you don't have much to lose.
Not to mention that a 5/6 is pretty good in arena.
As for Elise, she found her niche for the control vs control match ups, but is basically a worse yeti anywhere else.
I don't see how Malchezaarr would be useful, unless fatgue is suddenly a way bigger problem.
Karsticles
Member
They're lowering overall gold opportunities and changing nothing else. It's not doing anyone favors, and it's not an improvement on the system.
That means I would have to play every day. Even though I love Duelyst, I am not a fan of having to play every day. Though it's for different reasons. For Hearthstone, it's tiresome to play every day. For Duelyst, it's too addictive. :-X
GwyndolinCinder
Member
Yea she just became a "pray and hope for rng win condition" card, for decks with no comeback mechanic.
He's talking about the unreleased mage card there, if you read on. Still a terrible answer.
I hope so, because if Fireland is the bad card, I don't want to see the good one.
I wonder tho, you most likely always got Xaril if you use it in Rogue, Rogue player don't like puting Xaril in their deck, but LOVE actually get him for journey below, etc..
Another example is C'thun Warrior not even playing their great legendary like Malkorok and Grom, they only play c'thun minion and plus Brann at max, they will love can play malkorok and grom if possible.
I don't know at very least I need to see how the dillution really matter, and can you playing around with it in deck building
like you build N'zoth Control Warrior, you don't run warrior leg at all, only N'zoth, Sylvanas and Cairne, throw some loot hoarder in there, see what happens.
There's some tiny chance PM trump over speculation, and that factor is some class legendary is better than other class legendary,
bangbang i'm a timpani
Banned
i think we're in a really good place when there are 9 classes, one of them sucks and most of them are pretty good.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I guess Babbling Book is better than Firelands Portal in arena when you think about it. I mean, you could even get a Firelands Portal from it!
They are afraid of that moment where you can get 30 babbling books and get infinite tomes. Would break arena!!!
I didn't think he was talking about firelands there. Still, nowhere near as bad as their excuse for keeping warsong a 3 mana 2/3. That's the closest I was going to quit this game.
It was also auto-include in Control Warrior and most Handlock decks before Standard. If anything, the introduction of Standard has resulted in a decline in Elise's popularity.
That depends on your definition. If we look at popularity then the current trend is alarming for several classes.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Shaman on the decline? Time to buff.
3 mana 6/6 oveload 1
3 mana 5/5 ... They need it, poor shaman
7 mana maelstorm portal, deal 5 damage and summon a random flamewreath faceless
The effect should be "summon a random 7/7"
Yeah, but then you might end up with Eerie Statue.
CelticKnight
Member
I'd say low ranked player most likely not good enough to play that deck
also you lucky not being brokeback'd by that deck yet
Yeah, they did seem to be fumbling around around in the dark a bit. I used to use the old OTK Worgen Warrior deck for dailies and it was God-like when you could do 26 damages in one turn. Problem was you lost as many as you won due to drawing the wrong cards.
The answers they give make no sense when the fact is that Hearthstone is a digital card game and that they can do whatever they feel like such as swap rarities with Babbling Book if they wanted to. They just don't give a damn about Arena, and haven't for years.
I think Malchezaar will get some play, but the card won't be good in a world where there's still 4 mana 7/7s to contend with. On the flip side, a slight change would have made the card very powerful, so I'm fine with the way that it is.
I think Malchezaar will get some play, but the card won't be good in a world where there's still 4 mana 7/7s to contend with. On the flip side, a slight change would have made the card very powerful, so I'm fine with the way that it is.
I don't know if I can defend Babbling Book being the rare over Firelands Portal (even though I think Babbling Book is better than people give it credit for), but making it so that mage has two rares while every other class has one rare sounds like a bad idea to me.
You have to remember that the rarity for adventure cards still matters for Constructed because of the cost of crafting a gold version and the amount returned if somebody were to disenchant.
You have to remember that the rarity for adventure cards still matters for Constructed because of the cost of crafting a gold version and the amount returned if somebody were to disenchant.
It's to hard for newbies to understand. They might get a spell that their feeble minds could not grasp. They would break down and cry in the fetal position for hours. Blizzard is trying to spare people years of mental pain and medical costs
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah, in arena, Babbling Book is a good card, just not in comparison to Firelands Portal.
Seems like a very bad card in constructed though. Might as well play novice engineer for 1 more mana and increase your consistency.
I know, it's baffling. It's so easy to gauge Arena cards too. Arena card reviews before release are pretty darn accurate, unlike constructed reviews that will always have a few big misses.
Super Nothing
Member
But that's a nonsense argument when what they should have done is made Firelands Portal a rare and Babbling Book a common. I agree that Mage shouldn't have a different distribution of commons and rares than the other classes, but nobody is arguing that. Donais didn't acknowledge the real solution, he threw out some other made up scenario and said it wasn't very good to try and distract from the fact that what they actually did was clearly the wrong choice.
Honestly, I think Babbling Book will get dusted way more often than Firelands Portal. If they're actually concerned about dust payouts and crafting costs, then Firelands Portal should still be the higher rarity card.
Kotetsu534
Member
I'm dying here.
Constructed is the main format of this game; I don't want to not get good Mage spells "because Arena".
As far as the rarity, if Babbling Book was a common Kripp and them would be crying about Mage getting more card advantage and more ways to get answers.
Also, all Kripp plays is frickin' Rogue, most of the time he's got the game won before turn 7 with all of Rogue's busted ass arena cards. Sap and Backstab are 10000x better in arena than Firelands Portal will ever be.
As far as the rarity, if Babbling Book was a common Kripp and them would be crying about Mage getting more card advantage and more ways to get answers.
Also, all Kripp plays is frickin' Rogue, most of the time he's got the game won before turn 7 with all of Rogue's busted ass arena cards. Sap and Backstab are 10000x better in arena than Firelands Portal will ever be.
I would not. My instincts and experience say that the mana value difference between a random mage spell and a spell from your deck is significantly smaller than 1 mana. Cabalist's Tome is not a significantly worse card than Nourish and it still sees play just fine.
A Sentient Keyboard
Member
You'd get Firelands Portal even if it was a legendary, because this is an adventure. Swapping the rarities of Firelands Portal and Babbling Book would not affect constructed yet help balance the classes for arena.
Arena values removal and most of all tempo much higher than card value, and it's not a stab in the dark to say that Firelands Portal will be the more desirable arena card between these two.
I don't see how the rogue comment is relevant, Kripp is not arguing that class is fine. Just because rogue is even better atm doesn't mean we shouldn't bother with balancing arena at all.
Super Nothing
Member
Nobody's arguing that Mage shouldn't get good spells, they just don't want the really good ones to be common. People are still debating whether or not Firelands Portal will even be played in Constructed, but we can already tell it's going to be pretty busted in Arena.
What a weak ass answer.
So they are thinking of ways to rewrite the code and make complex changes to the drafting system for a problem they can tackle with simple card rarity changes.
Just say you don't really care that much about Arena balance. I'd respect that kind of mentality more.
You can, huh? And you can already figure out the arena meta after ONIK after seeing less than half of the cards?
Whatever, no matter which Mage spell was common people would riot. Kripp being salty drives his youtube views and brings him revenue. If he's authentically upset, he can just spend more time playing all these garbage F2P games he's being paid to play.
The Grinning Goat guys, ADWCTA and Merps, didn't think Portal was going to have any significant effect on the arena meta and I trust them a lot more than I trust Kripp.
Kotetsu534
Member
Their position isn't really any different; they're just coming at it from a different perspective. Their point is that it's no Keeper of Uldaman, Bog Creeper or Kraken, each of which clearly changed the Arena meta in a huge way. When those cards came out, you had to change how you played every draft if you wanted to remain successful. Firelands Portal doesn't do that - it's just another strong removal with a minion attached that makes Mage even better at the things it already does, which will keep it the top dog. I don't think Adwcta and Merps really care if one class is clearly better than the others, but most players do.
I'd like to be able to pick Priest or Hunter and know that I have roughly the same chance of going 12 wins if I play well as if I'd picked Mage or Rogue. As it is, that's not the case, and it's clear Blizzard never want it to be. Which diminishes the game.
- Status