They still questioning why Firelands Portal must've common, and book is rare tho.. at this subject ADWCTA can't even bring himself to play devil advocate
yeah lol, Mage the best class get another easily to draft arena card isn't big deal
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- Thread starter ZealousD
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They still questioning why Firelands Portal must've common, and book is rare tho.. at this subject ADWCTA can't even bring himself to play devil advocate
yeah lol, Mage the best class get another easily to draft arena card isn't big deal
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I'm pretty certain that if babbling book was a common, kripp would be salty about it. It's what he does. I sorta feel like babbling book is a really good arena card to begin with, since mage has many good arena spells. It's also immediate and cheap.
We haven't seen the other mage card yet right? So if it's a bad arena card, then mages got both a good one and a bad one. If other classes get 2 good arena commons, they've improved more than mage.
Perhaps by never giving mage another good common ever, arena balance is shifted slightly (which over time would add up). But doesn't that also make drafting for mages less fun over time. Perhaps changing the drafting algorithm is more likely to have a bigger and more positive impact. I can't imagine how arena would change if you got a lot more rare choices than you do right now, for example. There are a lot of great rare class cards in arena.
We haven't seen the other mage card yet right? So if it's a bad arena card, then mages got both a good one and a bad one. If other classes get 2 good arena commons, they've improved more than mage.
Perhaps by never giving mage another good common ever, arena balance is shifted slightly (which over time would add up). But doesn't that also make drafting for mages less fun over time. Perhaps changing the drafting algorithm is more likely to have a bigger and more positive impact. I can't imagine how arena would change if you got a lot more rare choices than you do right now, for example. There are a lot of great rare class cards in arena.
Adwcta started a pretty ridiculous campaign called #ArenaWarriorsMatter which I think actually saw some strong common cards printed for Warrior as a result, so I'd like to think he cares.
And yes, whether Firelands Portal is the new top Mage card or not is a bit irrelevant. There's virtually no reason to make it a common in a format that's already so skewed towards certain classes.
less fun for mages to draft, you mean how like 6 of the other classes in HS feel when they go into arena.
Firelands Portal is not going to have significant impact on Arena because it's not going to change much. As in it will maintain the status quo of Mage being the best in Arena like they have always been.
The outrage is on the card maintaining the Mage status quo in Arena and it shows Blizzard's lack of care when it comes to balancing for Arena. Both Merps and ADWCTA demand an answer from Blizzard as well.
And Babbling Book is significantly worse than Firelands Portal in Arena. Like two tiers below it. Firelands is a top tier premium Arena card, Babbling Book is just above average.
The outrage is on the card maintaining the Mage status quo in Arena and it shows Blizzard's lack of care when it comes to balancing for Arena. Both Merps and ADWCTA demand an answer from Blizzard as well.
And Babbling Book is significantly worse than Firelands Portal in Arena. Like two tiers below it. Firelands is a top tier premium Arena card, Babbling Book is just above average.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I had no intention of playing HS during break today...
LyleLanley
Banned
This brawl is strange.
Card rarity affects far more things than just arena, especially outside of adventures. Swapping the rarities of Babbling Book and Firelands Portal won't fix arena. That's just one issue. Broadly speaking, kicking Rogue, Mage, and Paladin off their high perch requires much more significant changes.
singe player high score brawl. It's interesting but without leaderboards seems pointless.
Seems like they put a lot of work into it with new art and even in the end there is a little chart that tells you how well you did, quite a bit of new stuff.
The best part is that you win every game, so free 100g here it is.
Seems like they put a lot of work into it with new art and even in the end there is a little chart that tells you how well you did, quite a bit of new stuff.
The best part is that you win every game, so free 100g here it is.
Well, this is an adventure card and we are talking about this case. Giving Mage strong commons won't kill arena either, but it doesn't help. Obviously changing one card or ten cards won't fix Arena, but rarity IS part of Arena, and if they are committed to changing things that's a good place to start. This isn't a new problem.
LyleLanley
Banned
Activating Ice Block ends the brawl for some reason.
LyleLanley
Banned
Can you win this brawl?
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I got 52 damage first time. I should have screen shot that end screen. I didn't really pay much attention to it.
The philosophy of our age.
This is the type of thing Brawls should be. Interesting, no aggravation, actually fun and makes you think about a deck if you really want to to get some crazy numbers.
As a mainly constructed player, I don't have strong feelings about the classes in arena, but even I can see that things are pretty fucked up in there. Like when I get bored and decide to do an arena (my avg is prolly like 5 wins these days), even I can tell when I get certain classes that there just isn't a lot of good choices for that class in arena.
When certain classes rely VERY heavily on rare and epic cards to succeed in constructed, the chance of getting a "constructed-like" deck in arena is vanishingly small. So you rely on the commons of that class, and there are quite a few classes with commons that are really bad. Not even just bad for arena, just bad in general.
All of that said, there have been LOTS of easy or at least straightforward solutions to arena problems over the years and they have all been ignored, so I don't expect any of this recent spat of complaining to have any better results. I personally don't see any issue with adjusting rarities of cards for various classes. Does it mean that some classes will have more rares/epics than others? So be it.
Maybe only do the rarity adjustments after the cards move into Wild. That would at least protect the value of packs while the packs are on sale, then once everything is in the realm of dust, just do some swapperoos on the rarities. If they are really concerned about the value of dust and the dust economy (which I am unconvinced of at the moment), then it should be possible to make rarity changes so that the total number of rares/commons/epics doesn't change but maybe the total number per class is shifted.
There has also been a long standing ideas about assigning "fake" rarities to the basic cards. Players would still get all the basic cards free so the rarities would only be affecting arena and it would decrease the chance of seeing some of those high impact cards in arena. That idea seems pretty easy to do and doesn't really change anything other than arena.
When certain classes rely VERY heavily on rare and epic cards to succeed in constructed, the chance of getting a "constructed-like" deck in arena is vanishingly small. So you rely on the commons of that class, and there are quite a few classes with commons that are really bad. Not even just bad for arena, just bad in general.
All of that said, there have been LOTS of easy or at least straightforward solutions to arena problems over the years and they have all been ignored, so I don't expect any of this recent spat of complaining to have any better results. I personally don't see any issue with adjusting rarities of cards for various classes. Does it mean that some classes will have more rares/epics than others? So be it.
Maybe only do the rarity adjustments after the cards move into Wild. That would at least protect the value of packs while the packs are on sale, then once everything is in the realm of dust, just do some swapperoos on the rarities. If they are really concerned about the value of dust and the dust economy (which I am unconvinced of at the moment), then it should be possible to make rarity changes so that the total number of rares/commons/epics doesn't change but maybe the total number per class is shifted.
There has also been a long standing ideas about assigning "fake" rarities to the basic cards. Players would still get all the basic cards free so the rarities would only be affecting arena and it would decrease the chance of seeing some of those high impact cards in arena. That idea seems pretty easy to do and doesn't really change anything other than arena.
Arena should have its own rarities for cards. Then they can make stuff like Fireball and Flamestrike Rares.
Though Arena right now has a much bigger problem than class balance.... it's coin balance. There's a 13% winrate difference between going first and going second. That is extremely alarming and is the result of Blizzard failing to print good spells that counter aggressive/tempo minion plays. So that means that whoever gets on board first with a relevant minion tends to win.
Though Arena right now has a much bigger problem than class balance.... it's coin balance. There's a 13% winrate difference between going first and going second. That is extremely alarming and is the result of Blizzard failing to print good spells that counter aggressive/tempo minion plays. So that means that whoever gets on board first with a relevant minion tends to win.
the fuck blizzard!!
I was so exited to play infinite brawl this time....
can it at least be used for quests?
Yes
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I just tried a greedy control paladin deck. Got my ass kicked. 1/5 paladin wins. lol
It isn't a new problem and it will continue to be a problem until Blizzard starts doing something different like adjusting appearance rates by individual cards. That is part of Bride's point. This goes beyond Firelands Portal. And you can only do so much with the current system.
Don't accuse Blizzard of not caring about arena balance when he is talking about exploring ways to fix arena balance long term. I don't worship at the alter of Blizzard, but they have to approach design from multiple angles and they have to think about this game much longer than anybody here has to.
Yeah, that's nuts. I wonder if that doesn't play into class balance issues as well, though. Data may prove me wrong, but I'd guess that rogue and mage have a smaller gap in winrate because they can retake a board much more easily - Rogue has backstab, that 5 damage spell, eviscerate, and other shenanigans, and mage has spell removal (esp. flamestrike). And both have pingy hero powers that can affect the board.
On the other hand, if a priest, hunter, etc. gets pushed off the board when on the coin by a 1-2-3 curve from the opponent, the game is essentially over.
Pretty much every turn-based game in the history of the world gives first turn advantage. The history of Go, one of the oldest and most strategic games in the world, has basically been "how much better is it to go first?"
The fact that sometimes new players perceive an advantage to going second actually puts Hearthstone ahead of most turn-based games in this regard.
The turn advantage difference right now is the WORST it has ever been in Arena. And that's because the spell pool is becoming more and more diluted.
what the hell.. how?
"Wheee! Wheee! Wheee!"
And yet rarity which is a short term tool that can be used within the current system is often ignored. I'm sure they work really hard and have incredible plans for the game, so just as I won't assume you worship Blizzard, don't assume I don't give them any credit, or I'm ignorant to the problems they face.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
It ends if you take lethal damage, and Ice Block only triggers on lethal.
It isn't a tool that they ignored in this case. They said that the current unrevealed card for mage is bad in arena so they made it a common and made one of the good arena cards a rare. They may have made a mistake in which of the two good cards that they chose to make rare but they didn't ignore rarity as a tool.
irfaanator
Banned
assuming on board, which means this will probably only hit one target. Idk about this card
BananasWithGuns
Member
Can't imagine any deck in which that would be run.
It reminds me most of Tinkertown Technician, but instead of the Spare Part, you get a potential upside on hitting more targets with the buff.
This is the second or third card along the lines of holding multiple synergy factions, so I'm guessing there are more in here as well.
This is the second or third card along the lines of holding multiple synergy factions, so I'm guessing there are more in here as well.
This is a cool Brawl, I want to see how long I can survive in.
Too bad I don't have all the Legendaries to make it work. I was thinking of a massive flood type deck and powering up minions with double Mukla Champion every turn to keep pace with the opponent. Also have a Hogger set up to block the attack.
I feel like there has to be a way to force the game to finish by fatigue.
Too bad I don't have all the Legendaries to make it work. I was thinking of a massive flood type deck and powering up minions with double Mukla Champion every turn to keep pace with the opponent. Also have a Hogger set up to block the attack.
I feel like there has to be a way to force the game to finish by fatigue.
New brawl is great. We need more mini-adventures / "lost levels".
Where's the murloc in the art? #toomanybeasts
Where's the murloc in the art? #toomanybeasts
Kel'Thuzad behind a wall of taunt
It won't be a good deck but it might be fun.
This whole adventure is literally a party, so almost all of the cards printed so far seem to basically be 'for fun.'
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