Midrange Shaman and Dragon Priest can do okay, but all the other midrange decks are pretty much out. Too easy for many midrange decks to just outright lose to pirate openers.
Edit: Kripp plays arena, but everytime he complains it goes faster
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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
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Midrange Shaman and Dragon Priest can do okay, but all the other midrange decks are pretty much out. Too easy for many midrange decks to just outright lose to pirate openers.
Edit: Kripp plays arena, but everytime he complains it goes faster
veryslowhand
Banned
midrange paladin with your clasical minibot into muster, boom, tirion and rag works for me in wild, I also run two murloc knights for fast board repopulation
BigJonsson
Member
Barely managed to beat a golem druid with my pirate warrior deck which didn't draw a weapon the entire game........won with a 9 mana 12 damage mortal strike + leeroy combo or I'd have been dead the next turn
BananasWithGuns
Member
Turn 6 this Rogue plays Auctioneer and proceeds to draw 5 cards and stealth their board.
Yet somehow people think that card isn't a problem lol. It needs to be rotated out so badly.
Yet somehow people think that card isn't a problem lol. It needs to be rotated out so badly.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Auctioneer is part of a very fun and high skilled archetype. So yes, lets get rid of it completely. Tomb pillager is already being rotated.
I think you just gotta accept that sometimes people have the nut hand/draws that are difficult to overcome. You can't balance a game by removing every strong card, it also makes it pretty boring. We need more decks like miracle rogue, not less.
BananasWithGuns
Member
Get rid of it completely by putting it in Wild? The whole point of rotating it would be that it still exists outside of Standard.
I get you like Rogue but playing Auctioneer on 6 and being able to draw 5 cards off it AND stealth it is broken. There's no way around that.
It's been brought up in the past about limiting design space. Auctioneer does exactly that so rotate it out.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
I don't know if I'd call it broken, but it certainly shouldn't be something that we deal with forever in standard.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
e:
Anyone try fight promoter in paladin yet? I kinda want to try it out but... don't feel like crafting an epic.
Every strong card in some way limits design space. That is a non-argument.
And yes I like rogue. We can point out biases all day. For a long time I wasn't a fan of how powerful auctioneer was, then they nerfed it.
Auctioneer on turn 6 and drawing 5 cards off it is just too rare to complain about. Usually you have to wait til turn 8 or sometimes even longer to get that kind of cycle off it. Judging a card off the extremes is not a fair way to evaluate a card's strength, and I don't think it's broken because it can hit the dream turn occasionally. You simply cannot call a card broken on the outlier results. That is just really bad.
I get that losing to a card sucks sometimes, especially when you don't feel like you can do that much about it. That's card games though. Sometimes you lose to outliers.
I can get the desire to see staple cards change. But if they are aiming to promote a different feeling among the different decks in the game, auctioneer is actually a card that doesn't have a significant amount of overlap between the different classes. It's been by far vastly used in rogue. While sure, I don't think auctioneer should be evergreen forever, I don't think auctioneer needs to go with the upcoming set, before they actually get around to developing other rogue archetypes. Plus tomb pillager is already going to be a significant blow to the deck type.
Anyone try fight promoter in paladin yet? I kinda want to try it out but... don't feel like crafting an epic.
Every strong card in some way limits design space. That is a non-argument.
And yes I like rogue. We can point out biases all day. For a long time I wasn't a fan of how powerful auctioneer was, then they nerfed it.
Auctioneer on turn 6 and drawing 5 cards off it is just too rare to complain about. Usually you have to wait til turn 8 or sometimes even longer to get that kind of cycle off it. Judging a card off the extremes is not a fair way to evaluate a card's strength, and I don't think it's broken because it can hit the dream turn occasionally. You simply cannot call a card broken on the outlier results. That is just really bad.
I get that losing to a card sucks sometimes, especially when you don't feel like you can do that much about it. That's card games though. Sometimes you lose to outliers.
I can get the desire to see staple cards change. But if they are aiming to promote a different feeling among the different decks in the game, auctioneer is actually a card that doesn't have a significant amount of overlap between the different classes. It's been by far vastly used in rogue. While sure, I don't think auctioneer should be evergreen forever, I don't think auctioneer needs to go with the upcoming set, before they actually get around to developing other rogue archetypes. Plus tomb pillager is already going to be a significant blow to the deck type.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Yeah, good point. I was thinking about that as well. Rogue's identity is about single target removal and card draw. Removing auctioneer pretty much guts that identity. Sprint is not a good draw tool. It only really worked when blade flurry was around and now that that is gone...
BigJonsson
Member
Rogue should have a card that lets you bypass taunted minions for one turn
BigJonsson
Member
Need mega sap for when a shaman plays wolves and the taunt totem =/
They do.
It's called Vanish.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
When this card is returned to your hand, reduce it's cost to 0.
Karsticles
Member
Need mega sap for when a shaman plays wolves and the taunt totem =/
lol
I've never even seen that card 😂😂😂
BigJonsson
Member
Ha ha
Very funny
*vanishes*
Very funny
*vanishes*
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Print a new rogue only card that has insane card draw then. Maybe a card that draws one card for every card played that turn, like a card draw version of Van Cleef.
Worse in the sense that you can't play those cards you draw that turn for more draws, but could be better by being cheaper.
Prep feels like to me more of the issue than Auctioneer. Auctioneer's role is to increase deck velocity, which there isn't anything inherently wrong with it. With the last nerf he comes late enough in the game so that most combinations of spells it's okay. It's when you get Auctioneer, Coin, Prep, Fan of Knives, Prep, etc. going the Rogue's deck velocity goes so fast it starts feeling unfair. If for example, you make Prep cost 1, reduce 4, it becomes much harder to cycle through the deck than now. Not saying that's the right nerf, but I'd much prefer something like that than moving Auctioneer to wild....
I hit rank 19 with that mostly free Druid deck we were discussing earlier. Thanks!
I got super lucky and didn't feel like I deserved the last two wins, though. Both times I drew a clutch damage spell one or two turns before I would have lost. One of those times I only won because the C'Thun was buried in the bottom 12 cards of the other player's deck.
I got super lucky and didn't feel like I deserved the last two wins, though. Both times I drew a clutch damage spell one or two turns before I would have lost. One of those times I only won because the C'Thun was buried in the bottom 12 cards of the other player's deck.
I think they tried, experimenting with cards like thistle tea. Problem is thistle tea was too random to be a good draw engine. What they ought to do is create a card like thistle tea but with a discover mechanic. That has potential, for sure.
Keyser Soze
Member
I crafted Aviana to make a Kun'Thun deck (I had all other cards), and managed to fall 4 Ranks in about 90 minutes.
I dont really care as the combo is glourious
I dont really care as the combo is glourious
Blizzard has commented on the direction of 1-drops: http://venturebeat.com/2017/01/16/t...an-changed-everything-and-where-it-goes-next/
And the future of Arena:
VentureBeat said:
And the future of Arena:
I know Nintendo moves slow for most things they do, but my goodness Team 5 moves like a snail, the changes on HS seems to move like 1 per year.
I know this game requires a huge amount of engineering to make a change that doesn't break everything, but I'm feeling this team just fears every change
I know this game requires a huge amount of engineering to make a change that doesn't break everything, but I'm feeling this team just fears every change
BananasWithGuns
Member
Great news about the 1 drops at least. There's very little worse in Hearthstone than being forced to answer a 1 or 2 drop immediately or else you lose the game. I'm glad Blizzard is finally realizing that.
Anyway, managed to hit rank 5 with Jade Druid. All I heard was how horrible this deck is and how nobody plays it. Finally tried it for the first time and I winstreaked from rank 8 to rank 5 without a single loss, beating a few aggro decks along the way even. I really should have given this deck a try sooner.
Anyway, managed to hit rank 5 with Jade Druid. All I heard was how horrible this deck is and how nobody plays it. Finally tried it for the first time and I winstreaked from rank 8 to rank 5 without a single loss, beating a few aggro decks along the way even. I really should have given this deck a try sooner.
It does sound like the Arena thing is a good move, e.g. non-programmers will be able to modify the rates of stuff.
Maybe they don't have a lot of engineering support.
It's interesting how this kind of parallels League of Legends. People wanted that feature FOREVER, there was basically unofficial support for a long time (like Hearthstone), but it was apparently pretty complicated (even more so with League because of all the drastic gameplay changes I guess).
People also wanted a practice mode, there were all sorts of arguments against it, but it finally came out and it turns out that, shocker, it's actually awesome.
They teased a separate update in the near future (February) where they'd talk about something new without really saying anything.
I told Dahbomb to ask them about it, but of course he probably forgot.
The issue is more that they had to build up the team and then re-engineer the game.
When they game launched, they were only 15 people. They're 70+ now, but a lot of that was in the last year, so there's a lead time on getting people up to speed, building the framework for faster updates, and then actually making the new content.
There's also the Unity 5 migration they did, which I imagine halted a lot of work, and then they had to do everything for the new platforms, adventures, brawls, and increased number of new cards prior to that.
If you look at some of their other games, they were similarly rather slow until they got the needed production pipelines in place.
If it's still slow on the feature front this year though, that would suggest some more fundamental issues.
When they game launched, they were only 15 people. They're 70+ now, but a lot of that was in the last year, so there's a lead time on getting people up to speed, building the framework for faster updates, and then actually making the new content.
There's also the Unity 5 migration they did, which I imagine halted a lot of work, and then they had to do everything for the new platforms, adventures, brawls, and increased number of new cards prior to that.
If you look at some of their other games, they were similarly rather slow until they got the needed production pipelines in place.
If it's still slow on the feature front this year though, that would suggest some more fundamental issues.
CelticKnight
Member
When a turn 2 Doomsayer dies due to your opponent doing nothing but playing on curve you know your 1 drops are taking the piss.
Something has to be done, the current situation of being immediately steamrollered by an aggro deck quicker than ever really kills the enthusiasm to keep playing.
It's great that they are attempting to more actively manage the Arena experience. If they finally divorce rarity from card power in arena that would be the best thing they have ever done for the mode, hands down. The little tweaks over the years to X cards showing up less has helped, but being systematic about it from the start is probably a better way. I love playing arena, even though I don't do it too frequently. I hope whatever they do gets more people to give that mode a chance. It really is fun, and doesn't require any collection whatsoever. Just solid fundamentals.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Forbidden Blades: Spend all your mana. Draw that many cards.
Okay that's way too broken. How about: draw as many cards as the difference between enemy minions and your minions in play.
DyslexicAlucard
Member
I'm glad to hear they're taking a look at one drops. It's insane to me that a one drop like Tunnel Trog pretty much *has* to be answered by using a 2-mana spell (either coined or on turn two) or you just immediately get snowballed. That card should have been a 1-2 from day one. At least with something like Flamewaker you have a few turns to draw an answer, if you figure out it's Tempo Mage and don't need it for a crazy Mana Wyrm (another OP one-drop.)
When talking Arena though, they said they could arrange cards by power level. I hope they don't go that route. As is, at least if someone lucks out and gets rarer cards than you, they aren't guaranteed to be "better."
The craziest thing is that PW can counter a coined turn-one Doomsayer.
PW starts with STB, Patches is summoned.
You coin out Doomsayer.
They play Fiery War Axe, buffing their STB to 3 damage, so 3+3+1=7 to kill the Doomsayer without losing anything but 7 damage to your face. Yes, that's significant against aggro; but when they still have a board and weapon in hand and you have two mana to stem the tide, you're probably screwed anyway.
When talking Arena though, they said they could arrange cards by power level. I hope they don't go that route. As is, at least if someone lucks out and gets rarer cards than you, they aren't guaranteed to be "better."
The craziest thing is that PW can counter a coined turn-one Doomsayer.
PW starts with STB, Patches is summoned.
You coin out Doomsayer.
They play Fiery War Axe, buffing their STB to 3 damage, so 3+3+1=7 to kill the Doomsayer without losing anything but 7 damage to your face. Yes, that's significant against aggro; but when they still have a board and weapon in hand and you have two mana to stem the tide, you're probably screwed anyway.
ok good perspective, I didn't know most of these, thanks for the clarification, it helps me a lot to judge on whether or not they could be capable of.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
All these discussions about 1-drops and Paladin is sitting here with Grimscale Chum.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Selfless Hero as a pirate would probably have been enough to make paladin tier 3
Watchin' this Kibler's view on Current Issues
For the curious, Valeera in Heroes of the Storm.
Vicious Syndicate: Top Cards Played During the Mean Streets of Gadgetzan Meta
The gap between Azure Drake and the next card is alarming.
The gap between Azure Drake and the next card is alarming.
Vicious Syndicate: Top Cards Played During the Mean Streets of Gadgetzan Meta
The gap between Azure Drake and the next card is alarming.
If Azure and Gadgetzan are moved to wild... #RIP Rogue #RIG
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