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[Dahbomb]

A big problem with ladder and patching is threat on the hearthstone championship tour. I feel like they would need to rethink the HCT before any sit infancy changes can be made.

You mean like making balance changes right before the finals? Because they have done that twice already. That's actually the worst time to make a balance change but in both of those situations their hand was forced, like the Yogg and Tuskar nerf.

Patching before random HCT events is kinda whatever as we see card releases year round and sometimes adventure where we are seeing shifts on a weekly basis. No one complains about it because people like seeing new stuff.

The BEST time to make balance changes is right when they release new cards like they used to do (to older cards). With new cards coming everyone is expecting meta changes anyway. So when they released Karazhan, that's when they should have nerfed Yogg, Tuskar and CotW.

This is actually still faster than Blizzard's own schedule where they do two balance changes a year (with this it would be 3) and for many this is still not fast enough. You are still waiting months for problems to be fixed.

 

[Drkirby]

I remember they nerfed undertaker 2 days before the monthly season finished. It was a move I found really odd back in the day, they had already waited that long, they couldn't wait the 2 more days?

 

[squidyj]

Zalae playing Hunter Quest all season over here is pretty amazing.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

If you're ever about to say something along the lines of "they will or won't do something because of esports things", just stop and remind yourself that 99.9% of the player base won't be affected.

 

[BananasWithGuns]

You know, at this point I'm convinced that nerfing STB isn't really going to do anything. Patches is still completely broken. Weapons are still completely broken.

Like, I just lost on turn 6 to a Pirate Warrior who didn't play STB even though I was able to Dirty Rat a N'Zoth's First Mate on turn 2. Then I proceeded to lose to an aggro Shaman on turn 6 who didn't play STB.

So why would aggro give a shit about an STB nerf when they're just as potent without it?

 

[squidyj]

If you're ever about to say something along the lines of "they will or won't do something because of esports things", just stop and remind yourself that 99.9% of the player base won't be affected.

Doubtful, even players who don't reach high ranks look to high level play, to tournaments, etc. They watch streams of high level players

there are 53k people watching hearthstone on twitch right now, sure 28k are kripp viewers but still. There are 1117 people watching Hex, Eternal, Elder Scrolls, Gwent, Shadowverse, and Duelyst combined, fewer than the number of people watching the 8th most popular Hearthstone stream which is a french language stream.

If you think that that audience isn't part of Blizzard's considerations you are kidding yourself.

 

[fertygo]

yeah surely not a coincidence the balance patch came right after all HCT prelims over.

 

[Zemm]

Video of Riot patch philosophy he was refering to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vdf0SDk2LLg&t=0m31s

Team 5 patch philosophy is "lets be extremely slow and cautious so we don't accidentally break this cash cow we've made"

Ghostcrawler must be sooo much happier working for Riot than Blizzard nowadays

 

[scarlet]

Zalae playing Hunter Quest all season over here is pretty amazing.

I thought he was hunting girls on bumble and tinder lol. So fun to watch.

 

[shoelacer]

So it's like 2 month out from the next adventure right? Should your f2p boi start hoarding gold again?

 

[boring accountant]

I am very disappointed in the leaked expansion. I had enough of the explorer and sand and nature aesthetic from LoE. Ungoro will just be more of that with a focus on creatures and beasts.

 

[shoelacer]

Oh shit, I completely missed the leaks. We gettin more crazy 1 drops?

 

[Jadax]

I wouldn't mind an adventure based on the Un'Goro Crater zone. Enjoyed lvling my toons there a lot (was one of the best places in WoW), right before entering the shit that is Silithus.

 

[shoelacer]

Damn Kripp goes ham on the current meta:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJmnVieooUo

I don't really agree with a couple of his points though.

Oh surprise, kripp shits his pants in constructed and whines about balance again

I watch him a lot but I have to say it's annoying as fuck watching Kripp play constructed

 

[shoelacer]

"just change shit up all the time" ok sure bro

 

[fertygo]

I am very disappointed in the leaked expansion. I had enough of the explorer and sand and nature aesthetic from LoE. Ungoro will just be more of that with a focus on creatures and beasts.

But Dinoes..

 

[Fersis]

I think that currently the big issue is :

• Ladder system that rewards aggro decks
• Blizzy-D keeps printing aggro cards and powerful 1 drops (IIRC They already said they've learnt about it and wont be printing powerful 1 drops anymore)D

How do other card games handle ranked?

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

Doubtful, even players who don't reach high ranks look to high level play, to tournaments, etc. They watch streams of high level players

there are 53k people watching hearthstone on twitch right now, sure 28k are kripp viewers but still. There are 1117 people watching Hex, Eternal, Elder Scrolls, Gwent, Shadowverse, and Duelyst combined, fewer than the number of people watching the 8th most popular Hearthstone stream which is a french language stream.

If you think that that audience isn't part of Blizzard's considerations you are kidding yourself.

Yes except they'll never be the priority over the other 99%.

 

[inky]

I feel like we've had the same conversation for the past few years regarding problem cards and Bizzard approach to rewards and balance. It feels like clockwork now, but I guess Blizzard do love their problem 1 drop, fast meta and death of any combo decks..

I remember I was almost crucified in one of these threads long ago for suggesting Bizzard should treat their online game like an online game, not being afraid of making more promptly balance changes and not waiting 6 months to deal with problematic cards, encourage more day in and out play in other modes with more varied rewards.
And they've improved in this respect, daily quests, wild, tavern brawl, but it never seems like enough. I think a game as big as this one from a developer like Blizzard could do a bit more, but they seem very comfortable with their slow cycle.

Hearthstone has gone from a game I played every day for a few years to a game I play once a week or so. A lot of that is on me, I'm not going to blame the game for that, but I quite like it in essence so it still disappoints me I don't find that urge to play all the time. I think stuff like Faeria and other options are more strategic and interesting to play, but they put me to sleep.

I hope they find a way to make all modes more engaging and put less emphasis on aggro decks in the upcoming content. But I don't expect Team 5 or whatever they are called will change their methods very much.

 

[Nirolak]

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthston...d_new_adventure_for_hearthstone_will_be_lost/
http://www.audiogodz.com/assets/lani_minella_resume.pdf

 

[ZealousD]

Aggro's a powerful archetype and the ladder rewards it. So it's a no brainer that people get frustrated when it turns up everywhere. Especially with this expansion where every aggro deck is forced to play the extra same early game kit.

The lesson that Blizzard needs to learn once and for all is that they need to STOP creating intentionally overpowered cards in order to "encourage" specific deck archetypes to be competitive. Mad Scientist. Mysterious Challenger. Patches/STB. Most of the time they do this, the archetype or card ends up being defining in that expansion and it pushes out other possible strategies.

For the record, even though they are wild-only (or de-facto wild-only), I certainly wouldn't complain if they nerfed Mad Scientist, Piloted Shredder, Dr. Boom, and Mysterious Challenger. I think Wild's importance is only going to grow and they need to stop thinking that they don't need to balance it.

 

[thepotatoman]

Sweet. Un'Goro Crater was maybe my favorite questing location in WoW.

Don't know how it'll translate into an adventure, but hey, dinosaurs are cool.

 

[inky]

Interesting.

 

[Yaboosh]

Aggro's a powerful archetype and the ladder rewards it. So it's a no brainer that people get frustrated when it turns up everywhere. Especially with this expansion where every aggro deck is forced to play the extra same early game kit.

The lesson that Blizzard needs to learn once and for all is that they need to STOP creating intentionally overpowered cards in order to "encourage" specific deck archetypes to be competitive. Mad Scientist. Mysterious Challenger. Patches/STB. Most of the time they do this, the archetype or card ends up being defining in that expansion and it pushes out other possible strategies.

For the record, even though they are wild-only (or de-facto wild-only), I certainly wouldn't complain if they nerfed Mad Scientist, Piloted Shredder, Dr. Boom, and Mysterious Challenger. I think Wild's importance is only going to grow and they need to stop thinking that they don't need to balance it.

Piloted shredder is barely even used in wild now. Belcher is the most ubiquitous wild card. Boom has largely fallen out of favor as well.

I agree that wild balance should be considered though.

 

[Karsticles]

Piloted shredder is barely even used in wild now. Belcher is the most ubiquitous wild card. Boom has largely fallen out of favor as well.

I agree that wild balance should be considered though.

The only reason the above are true is that Pirates are so overpowered that they are most of the Wild meta, too. Before PPP, all of those cards were frequent plays.

 

[Yaboosh]

The only reason the above are true is that Pirates are so overpowered that they are most of the Wild meta, too. Before PPP, all of those cards were frequent plays.

Shredder play was still semi uncommon last meta. Boom was far more common though.

 

[wiibomb]

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthston...d_new_adventure_for_hearthstone_will_be_lost/
http://www.audiogodz.com/assets/lani_minella_resume.pdf

I just wonder how far are we from the announcement

 

[Owzers]

I like Reno but I'm ready for him to be gone, let aggro roam free.

 

[Drkirby]

I wonder if there will be a new tribe with that expansion, like Dino.

 

[AndersK]

So I'm playing a Druid at rank 15.

He has the coin. On his first turn he...jade idol shuffles, coin jade idol shuffles.

I won on turn 7. And I'm running a version of Keyser Soze's shadowform Reno inspire priest. Like. I can't kill stuff in 7 turns.

 

[Nachos]

I just wonder how far are we from the announcement

Considering how early VO usually gets recorded for big games like this, this might not even be for the next expansion but for the first or second one after it. All depends on how long she thought she had to wait before she could disclose what she's worked on.

 

[charlequin]

Oh don't get me wrong, I know WHY they don't do it, but it's just stupid.

If buffing a classic card or two per big patch critically messes with your game's cash flow, then you're slowly digging yourself into a deeper hole.

I mean if your interpretation is that it "messes with [their] game's cash flow" then maybe you don't really know why they don't do it?

Buffing old cards doesn't actually make many people happy in reality. You make random older cards suddenly meta-dominating top-tier cards and you irritate people who already dusted them when they were shitty, you fail to promote any new content to excite more casual players, and if you screw up you wind up having to take the same card you buffed and re-nerf it, which looks bad. It's not that it costs them a lot of money, it's just that it's just as much work to do as making new cards but with less benefit for everyone. There's zero incentive except to pander to the idea that they need to make symbolic gestures towards not wanting to make money.

If some older useless classic cards, etc got buffed I'd feel encouraged to spend more money to get dust to craft the buffed cards.

Okay, but which is it: Blizzard should buff old cards because they'd make more money, or Blizzard should buff old cards because it's only their greedy insistence on making money that keeps them from doing it? Because it's the latter argument that normally always comes up to justify this request.

I am very disappointed in the leaked expansion. I had enough of the explorer and sand and nature aesthetic from LoE.

wut

The lesson that Blizzard needs to learn once and for all is that they need to STOP creating intentionally overpowered cards in order to "encourage" specific deck archetypes to be competitive.

This cuts against pretty much twenty years of CCG balancing experience across multiple games, though. Pushing cards has a much better chance of producing an interesting and enjoyable metagame than trying to keep a flat power level and having the decks that are successful be a complete surprise.

 

[ZealousD]

This cuts against pretty much twenty years of CCG balancing experience across multiple games, though. Pushing cards has a much better chance of producing an interesting and enjoyable metagame than trying to keep a flat power level and having the decks that are successful be a complete surprise.

I don't feel like this has been the case in Hearthstone, though. All the cards I mentioned, plus the huge Shaman push in WOTOG, all have created bad results. I think this strategy has only lead to positive results once in Hearthstone, and that's Drakonid Operative.

I wonder if there will be a new tribe with that expansion, like Dino.

Too much overlap with Beasts.

 

[joelseph]

But Dinoes..

They should introduce mounts and feature the white raptor from back in the OG days.

 

[Dahbomb]

Twenty years of MTG/CCG balancing does not relate to Hearthstone whatsoever. Completely different format and tools. MTG HAS to release new cards to balance (or put out ban lists YGO style which IMO is not a great solution either), Hearthstone does not has to. That's a big fundamental difference that Blizzard has emphasized in the past.

And Hearthstone has buffed cards before in beta. It's not a new concept. Other digital card games have buffed cards. But now Blizzard has drawn the line by saying very few balance changes and no buffs, which kinda limits their own power. Why balance with one hand tied behind their back? That's why when they defend their no buffs claim by saying they would print more cards, people accuse them of being money grubbing.

And the only cards that actually deserve buffing are objectively terrible basic cards like Booty Bay and Silverback Patriach (maybe Savagery). No one is talking about making previous Legendaries go from decent to meta breaking. The point of buffs should be to help new players have a fighting chance against people with better collections.

 

[Nirolak]

sand

 

[QFNS]

Interesting leak. I am ok with the idea. We'll see what spin Blizzard puts on it.

In the meantime, I have taken to playing a lot less because all my time is devoted to Fire Emblem Heroes.

 

[Dahbomb]

Hotform with reasonable Shaman match analysis:

https://youtu.be/jYGDPhdZKSQ

 

[cackhyena]

Cunts who rope every turn should be shot to death I'm not mad you're mad.

 

[Blizzard]

Cunts who rope every turn should be shot to death I'm not mad you're mad.

I don't think death is appropriate for videogame behavior, especially in the modern world of gun violence. :/

 

[cackhyena]

I'm joking but I do wish immense unhappiness upon their day. Stubbed toes, hair in their food, etc.

 

[Nachos]

I'm joking but I do wish immense unhappiness upon their day. Stubbed toes, hair in their food, etc.

You don't even have to step outside the game. Just wish nothing but aggro shamans upon them.

 

[Blizzard]

Since people say aggro Shaman is good, and I have a Shaman 5-win quest, maybe it's time for me to find a cheap deck and learn how to play it.

 

[Fersis]

Hotform with reasonable Shaman match analysis:

https://youtu.be/jYGDPhdZKSQ

Only a canadian can keep its calm after such game lol
And the shaman didnt even have the best draw/curve possible =/

 

[Johnlenham]

Dont suppose I can add a few people on here on BN? Ive tried for ages to get people into it but they all go "card game meeehhhhh" and its annoying to get high Gold quests or even pack ones I have to pass on..

Mines Johnlenham#2341

 

[Yaboosh]

Mine is NA

Chris#110874

Anybody can add me.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

Only a canadian can keep its calm after such game lol
And the shaman didnt even have the best draw/curve possible =/

Kripp is a Canadian too, and we all know how much sodium he can produce. Hell, so am I and I can certainly tell you that I've raged at this game too, lol.

And I agree with Kripp about one-drops. When a one-mana card like Tunnel Trogg requires that you have an immediate (usually two-mana) answer or you lose, that sucks. And even if you answer it with that two-mana card, they gain tempo because you spent two mana dealing with a one-mana play. This is why he (correctly) says that removal *should* be cheaper than the minions they deal with. Otherwise, you're never properly punished for playing the minion when, at worst, you still gain tempo if it's removed.

 

[veryslowhand]

playing some murloc shaman many times dosent work but when it does is great

 

[cackhyena]

You don't even have to step outside the game. Just wish nothing but aggro shamans upon them.

Now that's too far.

 

[AndersK]

Ok. Ladder is weird today. Somehow I managed to have Saraad stick for 4 turns. Yield:

- totemic might
- ancestral healing
- inner rage
- bolster

The my renolock opponent conceded because, I assume, he thought I was on a one way ticket to value town.