Lone_Prodigy
Member
Unless you run a pirate package, you have no 1-drop.
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Hearthstone |OT8| Elise's Extremely Irresponsible Field Trip To Un'Goro
- Thread starter ZealousD
- Start date
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Unless you run a pirate package, you have no 1-drop.
I'm expecting the bulk of the nerfs to come with the actual rotation so they can put in replacements if needed. They seem to be trying to apply bandaids until they can get to April along with the other changes planned.
It's so people can experiment to find a good deck for their current set of opponents every time they hit a breakpoint without fear of going back down a bunch of levels.
It's so people can experiment to find a good deck for their current set of opponents every time they hit a breakpoint without fear of going back down a bunch of levels.
Looks like Blizzard gave Polygon an early look at the patch notes so they could specifically report on these changes to help quell the player base. I'm guessing the arena changes are still coming and will probably be revealed once the full patch is out.
They posted them on Reddit directly: https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/5u1ues/upcoming_balance_and_ranked_play_changes/
I honestly don't think the arena changes are coming until the next Standard year.
Agreed, i think this is what Blizzy-D wants, power down aggro just a bit until the next expansion which hopefully wont have crazy aggro cards.
I love the ranked changed but i gotta admit, im surprised it took years to be implemented. But oh well, hype!
You think this patch only contains these changes? Seems unlikely to me, but I guess we'll find out in a week or so.
Might mean more deck diversity? Meta decks to rank 15/10/5, whatever you think your time allows then actual fun decks since you won't be dropping if you lose
Glass Shark
Banned
Good changes, but I don't think it's nearly enough.
I honestly don't think they've made up their mind what changes they want to introduce to arena, standard arena? increase spell appearing rate? A comprehensive rarity tweak seems not happening though.
SodiumBenzoate
Member
This by no means precludes a much more significant round of changes at the next release so everything happens at the same time with the rotation.
I'm guessing Shaman is still going to be the best deck, it's just going to be Jade Shaman now.
That's probably accurate. One Portal annhialates a Pirate board and puts Midrange Shaman well ahead. And Midrange Shaman was already the second best deck in the game, some would argue it was the best.
If Mid Shaman is on top then that opens space for Tempo Mage (already almost there), Combo Druid and Freeze Mage to return. And Renolock can easily tech against Midrange Shaman by adding a Felfire Potion. But that sounds awful lot like the Karazhan meta that people also hated.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
If thats all its not enough to stop Shaman. Jade claws for 1 needs to be a 3 drop as well fuck that card fuck all Jade cards stupidest mechanic they have ever introduced it kills every other control deck.
Lagspike_exe
Member
I really, really like flored ranks. It should freshen up the meta a lot.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
RIP Aggro Shaman.
Miracle Rogue new best deck? They're hurt the least of the 3 pirate decks and helped the most against the other pirate decks.
Or are they countered by midrange shaman too?
Miracle Rogue new best deck? They're hurt the least of the 3 pirate decks and helped the most against the other pirate decks.
Or are they countered by midrange shaman too?
It will likely increase it.
Pirate warriors will likely start playing midrange Jade shaman. I bet shaman numbers keep climbing at the expense of warrior numbers up until rotation. Pirate warriors will still be played for the speed but Shaman will continue to eat them.
slightconfuse
Banned
Wow they wrecked STB. Spirit claw changes is welcome
Midrange with devolve destroys rogue so hard.
It's currently even but with this STB nerf that is likely to go towards midrange shaman pretty strongly.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
IksarHS
WHAT!?
WHAT!?
Arjen
Member
Yep. Midrange shaman who used the pirate package will probably go back to tunneltrog combo.
And as i type, 4th shaman in a row
Ranked floors are good but I don't get why they are so fixated on deranking everyone so heavily at the start of each season. It's still going to be many days at the start of each month where previously legend players go up against newbies and otherwise terrible players like me. Why not just cap the drop at like 5 or 10 ranks from your best rank of last season? Do people enjoy the rank 20 to 5 climb?
BananasWithGuns
Member
I'm not sure that lowering STB's health by 1 really changes much. Is there really any incentive to not run it in aggro decks? I don't think so.
Spirit Claws nerf is fine. I imagine the card is pretty much dead after the rotation if Azure Drake doesn't get replaced somehow.
Edit: I guess the most notable thing is that Hunter is probably a bit more relevant as Alleycat isn't completely useless anymore.
Spirit Claws nerf is fine. I imagine the card is pretty much dead after the rotation if Azure Drake doesn't get replaced somehow.
Edit: I guess the most notable thing is that Hunter is probably a bit more relevant as Alleycat isn't completely useless anymore.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
The fact they didn't seem to have test the changes.
It will still get run in Pirate decks but Pirate deck win rate is going to go down. If you have more clean answers to their threats then their chances of winning goes down. A Rogue for example can kill two STBs with one hero power, a Druid can wipe Patches, two STBs and Deckhand with one Swipe same for Hunter and UTH.
The nerf is significant in that it lowers the power level of Aggro decks but not a terrible nerf where the card or deck is unplayable. Both of these nerfs are reasonable, it's just that you can only do so much nerfing two cards only.
From Ben, it sounds like more Ranked changes are coming, but obviously not now: https://twitter.com/bdbrode/status/831575485209464832
He's talkin' about the Jade interaction with it.
It's really impossible to them to fully "test the meta".
You'll need a huge player base and lots of time to have a 100% meassured meta.
At some point you gotta analyze and predict how the changes will affect the game. (But with no factual data of course)
Karsticles
Member
OMG yes they are adopting the Duelyst system. :-D
Very nice. Looking forward to seeing what else they're planning.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
But I want my dust back for crafting Patches
STB is worthless now, it's gone.
spirit claws? the card is still good, just the early advantage is reduced which is a big deal as shaman is all about snowball but it still will see play... sad.
I'm not sure pirate warrior is going away.
I hope there is room to try paladin and hunter now, doesn't seem likely.
spirit claws? the card is still good, just the early advantage is reduced which is a big deal as shaman is all about snowball but it still will see play... sad.
I'm not sure pirate warrior is going away.
I hope there is room to try paladin and hunter now, doesn't seem likely.
charlequin
Banned
I told y'all they weren't going to nerf Patches, lol.
Theoretically this should actually do a ton to increase meta diversity on the ladder. Right now homebrew decks are strongly disincentivized once you gain a few ranks because the penalty for making a bad call is so huge. With floors, you get another shot to test unexpected decks against the meta with little to no penalty every five ranks, so it should open up a lot of Tier 2/3 decks or new brews to be played.
Yeah, the explicit goal of their Arena changes is to have a toolset that makes it easy for them to configure stuff as needed. I'm sure they'll launch the new Year with some specific changes, but rather than do everything they've though about they'll launch some limited set then and roll out other tweaks or variants more often afterwards.
Theoretically this should actually do a ton to increase meta diversity on the ladder. Right now homebrew decks are strongly disincentivized once you gain a few ranks because the penalty for making a bad call is so huge. With floors, you get another shot to test unexpected decks against the meta with little to no penalty every five ranks, so it should open up a lot of Tier 2/3 decks or new brews to be played.
Yeah, the explicit goal of their Arena changes is to have a toolset that makes it easy for them to configure stuff as needed. I'm sure they'll launch the new Year with some specific changes, but rather than do everything they've though about they'll launch some limited set then and roll out other tweaks or variants more often afterwards.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
That is why like everyone says they need a PTR atleast for patch changes and ideally for new expansions. I don't want to go from pirate meta to garbage Jade meta.
I think theyre gonna nerf/move to wild/change more cards along the new "year".
So, full thoughts on the changes.
1.) Ranked Ladder Floor change is nearly pointless. Resets still work exactly the same way as always. It's still a grind every month and new players still have to fight people with full collections at the lower ranks.
2.) Reducing the health of STB by 1 opens up other Aggro decks to join the meta. Alley Cat, Possessed Villager, Voidwalker, Argent Squire, and Living Roots become much more viable Turn 1 plays. I can't say with confidence that the card is completely dead but at least other aggro decks will have a chance and that will reduce the amount of time we see the card at the very least. Rogue and Warrior will probably still run some variation of the Pirate Package in this meta. Rogue suffers less because they have Buccaneer until the rotation. Warrior can probably adapt without STB if they desire. Shaman might be in a tougher spot with the Spirit Claws nerf as well, but Shaman could pivot back into a Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem build for Mid-Jade until rotation.
3.) This is a pretty heavy nerf to Spirit Claws imo. The card doesn't curve naturally into Thalnos/Kobolds or Wrath of Air totem anymore. However, it is possible that Shaman might still run the card if recent nerfs pull Acidic Swamp Ooze out of the meta and it becomes a value card that stays equipped for awhile.
4.) Disappointed that Maelstrom Portal is not also receiving a nerf, as previously stated. Shaman still has a very strong kit in Mid-Jade Shaman so I don't think there's any chance this class becomes dethroned before the rotation.
5.) Jade Druid and Jade Rogue will still be hard checked by other aggro decks, so this won't be a "jade meta" per se. But Mid-Jade Shaman stays strong.
1.) Ranked Ladder Floor change is nearly pointless. Resets still work exactly the same way as always. It's still a grind every month and new players still have to fight people with full collections at the lower ranks.
2.) Reducing the health of STB by 1 opens up other Aggro decks to join the meta. Alley Cat, Possessed Villager, Voidwalker, Argent Squire, and Living Roots become much more viable Turn 1 plays. I can't say with confidence that the card is completely dead but at least other aggro decks will have a chance and that will reduce the amount of time we see the card at the very least. Rogue and Warrior will probably still run some variation of the Pirate Package in this meta. Rogue suffers less because they have Buccaneer until the rotation. Warrior can probably adapt without STB if they desire. Shaman might be in a tougher spot with the Spirit Claws nerf as well, but Shaman could pivot back into a Tunnel Trogg and Totem Golem build for Mid-Jade until rotation.
3.) This is a pretty heavy nerf to Spirit Claws imo. The card doesn't curve naturally into Thalnos/Kobolds or Wrath of Air totem anymore. However, it is possible that Shaman might still run the card if recent nerfs pull Acidic Swamp Ooze out of the meta and it becomes a value card that stays equipped for awhile.
4.) Disappointed that Maelstrom Portal is not also receiving a nerf, as previously stated. Shaman still has a very strong kit in Mid-Jade Shaman so I don't think there's any chance this class becomes dethroned before the rotation.
5.) Jade Druid and Jade Rogue will still be hard checked by other aggro decks, so this won't be a "jade meta" per se. But Mid-Jade Shaman stays strong.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Im still hoping for Gadgetzan Auctioneer to rotate out.
FormallyFamicom
Member
Can't wait to get home and count my STB's. I think I have at least 5.
I'm someone who plays Jade druid and your posts make me sad. Is auctioneer a problem with the shaman and pirate decks that make up the vast majority of problems right now?
BlackBuzzard
Banned
I'm someone who plays Jade druid and your posts make me sad. Is auctioneer a problem with the shaman and pirate decks that make up the vast majority of problems right now?
No but its a problematic card even Kibler says so and that it should never have been printed in the first place.
charlequin
Banned
This will never happen.
The point of this change is to increase deck selection flexibility, it's doesn't solve that problem but that's because it's really just targeting something different. From what Ben says there'll probably be more significant changes at the Year break.
I would guess they want to be careful about over-nerfing shaman right now given how much stuff is going away at rotation.
On vacation but I heard about the changes and had to check in on HSGaf and see the opinions. I'm surprised that no one is calling out for blood because of no Patches change. I personally was expecting nothing but it seemed like lots of people here wanted it nerfed.
Ranked changes are welcome, though I think this isn't going to solve any issues. What this will do though, is allow people to play weird stuff at those cutoffs and might give your ladder climb some variety. You can mess around in ranked now where as before you'd lose 2-3 ranks Learning a new deck. Good change but still not going to fix the incentive to play aggressive.
STB nerf is the only one they could have made without eliminating it from the game. Not really happy how strong Malestrom portal is going to be with this.
Spirit Claws needed the nerf and is probably still playable if you run enough spell power guys. Aggro won't though, and neither will mid range. So it's a good change.
Ranked changes are welcome, though I think this isn't going to solve any issues. What this will do though, is allow people to play weird stuff at those cutoffs and might give your ladder climb some variety. You can mess around in ranked now where as before you'd lose 2-3 ranks Learning a new deck. Good change but still not going to fix the incentive to play aggressive.
STB nerf is the only one they could have made without eliminating it from the game. Not really happy how strong Malestrom portal is going to be with this.
Spirit Claws needed the nerf and is probably still playable if you run enough spell power guys. Aggro won't though, and neither will mid range. So it's a good change.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
How would you nerf Maelstrom? Making it a 3-cost is probably too much as Arcane Explosion costs 2 and you just miss the random 1-drop.
Overload 1? Hmm, Trogg into Golem/Maelstrom into Maelstrom/Golem into Feral Spirits. Heh.
Overload 1? Hmm, Trogg into Golem/Maelstrom into Maelstrom/Golem into Feral Spirits. Heh.
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