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Heroes of the Storm |OT3| Chromiehounds

I did rock Zarya pre buff, she was already great. Even went for the grenade build which I'm now mostly off of that it's meta. I just don't like giving up Unyielding Defender and I prefer Maximum Charge with Pinpoint Accuracy.
Yea but it feels like you're playing a siege tank.
Nah one of he ults needed to be Medivac for it to be accurate.
 

brian!

Member
I never played real multiplayer starcraft, just comp stomps and use map settings stuff, so my siege tank experience was basically blocking off a choke w/ supply depots, put bunkers behind them, and then set up tanks. So hammer is pretty much that, but with a lot less damage.
 
Only played SC1 as a kid no idea what I'm doing but I watched a bit of SC2 esports where when I watched the prevalent Terran strategy were lifting and dropping siege tanks with medivacs. Obnoxious af, imagine Hammer stutter stepping in siege mode.
 
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Hots still needs streamers raking in the numbers for regular play.
 

Kioshen

Member
Pro OW was hard to watch at the beginning and during S2. I don't know if it is better now. Glad HGC is working out for HoTS though.
 

Kioshen

Member
Good god Mewnfare is a pile of talking salt. Did he go to the same school that Raynoodle went for streaming? It's always this: I'm a god. I'm so carrying this or my team is failing me. At least he's good to watch and stuff but that's the first time I've watched him for more than two matches and it can be grating.
 

Alur

Member
Good god Mewnfare is a pile of talking salt. Did he go to the same school that Raynoodle went for streaming? It's always this: I'm a god. I'm so carrying this or my team is failing me. At least he's good to watch and stuff but that's the first time I've watched him for more than two matches and it can be grating.

I'm not the biggest fan myself, but that is what sells it appears. You either have to be mega enthusiastic (think Trikslyr style), draw viewers (aka creeps) with your looks, or be a salt lord to a major degree. Hell, Lightknight used to draw like 100-150 viewers at times and it was just saltymcsaltface all stream long.
 

scoobs

Member
Not entirely true, chu and grubby are neither of those things. Chu is just funny, and grubby is a great analyzer while playing and has built up a huge loyal fan base
 

Alur

Member
For HOTS it's working, I'm talking Twitch in general. The truly successful streamers are either trolls or constant hype machines. I'd argue chu rolls pretty far into the troll category at times, he's just not personally salty. Everything is a meme, it's more or less the same thing even if he's not BMing in game. I would agree Grubby is an exception to most of the norms. He's the most like Lifecoach from HS to me.
 

Maledict

Member
So I've been playing Probius with the cannon build, and whilst I enjoy him and thing his effects are great I cannot figure out why you would ever pick him. His burst damage is good - but other mages feel stronger. His pylons feel like a weakness not a strength, especially as they don't *do* anything until 10 yet are needed for your cannon (and WHY don't pylons have charges???). The cannon seems not worth casting unless you take the talents for it, and tends to target minions over heroes.

Also, as a set up hero he is terrible. You need to be at the fight spot so early compared to anyone else, and if you don't have your heroic up you don't even have good area denial anyway. Whereas on Dragonshire Gazlowe is a right pain, as Probius I had to hug my gate and could never really set up to push a raynor out.

Also, he just seems to die to certain heroes. Zeratul, for example. Flat out explodes.
 
I don't like cannon build at all, his E is like a wisp to me just kinda there. Talenting all into W but he really needs either reduced CD for pylons or charges like you said. 15 seconds to set up for an ult that gets easily countered by range is ludicrous and the CD is fairly long to boot.
There should be a range increase on W somewhere along his talent tree, 3 charges are kind of pointless since you're restricted by Q detonating them anyways.

I like that he's kind of a mage but he needs a couple buffs to be truly viable. He's fun though.
 

Maledict

Member
My issue with the W build is that it really does make the cannon worthless, but also the range on it is so damn short. Any hero who has any form of engage is going to destroy him. I think that might be why his quick match win rate is fine, at around 50%, but his hero league win rate Is abysmal. Because if I see a probius in draft, I'm grabbing Varian / Zeratul or one of the many other heroes who can just destroy him when he tries to cast his rift and then explode it.
 

scoobs

Member
So I've been playing Probius with the cannon build, and whilst I enjoy him and thing his effects are great I cannot figure out why you would ever pick him. His burst damage is good - but other mages feel stronger. His pylons feel like a weakness not a strength, especially as they don't *do* anything until 10 yet are needed for your cannon (and WHY don't pylons have charges???). The cannon seems not worth casting unless you take the talents for it, and tends to target minions over heroes.

Also, as a set up hero he is terrible. You need to be at the fight spot so early compared to anyone else, and if you don't have your heroic up you don't even have good area denial anyway. Whereas on Dragonshire Gazlowe is a right pain, as Probius I had to hug my gate and could never really set up to push a raynor out.

Also, he just seems to die to certain heroes. Zeratul, for example. Flat out explodes.

E build bro, E build. The detection is a must against stealthies.
 
Yeah I can see that but that's where the setup comes in for me. Drop wargate in a choke on a shrine for instance, when they engage you can blow it up, if not it continues zoning them.
 

Maledict

Member
E build bro, E build. The detection is a must against stealthies.

That's what I've been going, but that quest is surprisingly hard to complete early on (he's so weak and vulnerable collecting minerals is tricky), and even when you have it the issue is Zeratul doesn't care you can see him particularly. I agree it's definitely the best option against that type of counter though (doesn't help versus ETC or Varian, who just murder you when you try to cast W).

And re the warp rift, I think it needs more range and more slow. 20% is very minor, and whilst it does great damage when you blow it up it's very unlikely you'll get another one off on someone, so you take a lot of damage back in trading (and he does have very low health).

I will try the W build tomorrow and see how it goes, but I do expect some changes. Just charges on the damn pylons would help a lot...
 
Sure but I'm usually only on at odd hours. I only come back home past midnight (CET) so it might be easier for you to look in one of the group finding chats.

Schreckstoff#2168 is the tag.
 

scoobs

Member
God Dehaka is so freaking good on Infernal Shrines. I can't believe they let me get him all the way down at 4th pick. Hero League placements 2-0 boys!
 

Altairre

Member
For HOTS it's working, I'm talking Twitch in general. The truly successful streamers are either trolls or constant hype machines. I'd argue chu rolls pretty far into the troll category at times, he's just not personally salty. Everything is a meme, it's more or less the same thing even if he's not BMing in game. I would agree Grubby is an exception to most of the norms. He's the most like Lifecoach from HS to me.

Pretty much only watch Grubby at this point. His calm manner (at least most of the time) is the only one I can stomach over longer stretches, he never tires of answering questions and the replay analysis he started doing recently is pretty insightful. Seeing him play Vikings or Aba is usually a lot of fun as well. And he has a cute dawg.
 

scoobs

Member
Having a real rough time with melee assassins since the armor changes. The amount of damage I do against tanks is so pitiful now.

Well to be fair, melee assassins should be focusing on diving the backline, not smacking the warriors. Sounds like you need to re-evaluate your playstyle a bit :)
 

Alur

Member
He has a point. Easier said than done, I know, but still.

Also, like they were saying on the most recent THH, several of the melee assassins have slowly fallen out of favor and been replaced by bruisers/second warriors. They can still do work in the right spot, but if you're heading into a solo queue QM game it'll probably be a bit harder than your average ranged.
 
That's where I'm getting at, why go Kerri, or Thrall, whoever when I can go Zarya who does just as much damage if not more and has way more utility. Or to top that, even go dmg muradin who's an absolute beast.

There's almost no reason to pick a melee assassin atm. Other than Alarak who does provide some utility with his Q silence and displacement. Rag has his uses but he needs a good comp to back him up.
 

scoobs

Member
Rag, Thrall, Greymane & Zeratul are all very good and popular picks in the meta right now. Butcher, Sonya, Artanis, Kerrigan, and Samuro continue to be among the top win rate heroes across all leagues.

The only melee heroes who see no pro play are Illidan, Alarak, and Valeera. All 3 are situationaly strong in the right hands in Hero League.

I guess what I'm saying is, I completely disagree with you. The melee assassin/bruiser role has never been so well balanced or fun to play as it is right now.
 

zoukka

Member
That's where I'm getting at, why go Kerri, or Thrall, whoever when I can go Zarya who does just as much damage if not more and has way more utility. Or to top that, even go dmg muradin who's an absolute beast.

There's almost no reason to pick a melee assassin atm. Other than Alarak who does provide some utility with his Q silence and displacement. Rag has his uses but he needs a good comp to back him up.

Greymane still deletes anyone who wants to dance.
 

Maledict

Member
Valera sees pro play by the way. She was played in a few matches at the clash. As she's so new I think it will be a while until we see her a lot, but she does have a role as a counter melee melee.
 

Alur

Member
Rag, Thrall, Greymane & Zeratul are all very good and popular picks in the meta right now. Butcher, Sonya, Artanis, Kerrigan, and Samuro continue to be among the top win rate heroes across all leagues.

The only melee heroes who see no pro play are Illidan, Alarak, and Valeera. All 3 are situationaly strong in the right hands in Hero League.

I guess what I'm saying is, I completely disagree with you. The melee assassin/bruiser role has never been so well balanced or fun to play as it is right now.

Rag is the most popular hero in the game and for good reason. He's sort of his own entity, though, as is Samuro who is really more of a specialist who controls the map than he is anything else. Butcher has an insane winrate which is a bit of a mystery to me. I only ever see them feeding, but picked in the right spot that is clearly working. Kerrigan is either gangbusters or just a busta and it depends on a whole lot of things from skill to comp to the enemy team's awareness/comp, etc.

Thrall (15.6%), Greymane (18.7%), and Zeratul (9.8%) are so popular that when you double their combined pick/ban rates they are almost half as popular as Ragnaros (88.4%), aka, none of them are very popular. I would grant you Greymane and Zeratul certainly have their uses in drafts, but Thrall has fallen out of favor for some time now. His impact just seems far weaker, and I couldn't even tell you why to be honest.

The other two you mentioned, Sonya and Artanis are both bruisers and are part of why melee assassins are getting crowded out which is what the discussion was about.

If you look at the popularity for Hero League, Ragnaros is the only melee hero in the top 10 and he, Valeera, and Samuro are the only melee assassins in the top 25 pick/ban rate with Samuro sliding in at 24th. Considering 14 heroes are picked or banned in each game, to me that says a lot about how people feel about using second tanks and/or bruisers versus actual melee assassins for the job and echoes the sentiment put forth by Dunk/Bakery/Jake on the last THH about competitive viewpoints on them as well.

In those top 25 heroes, we have ETC, Artanis, Varian, Diablo, Dehaka, Muradin, Johanna, Anub'arak, Sonya. That's a whole lot of warriors and why not pick them over their melee counterparts? They are tankier, the often provide better or more reliable CC. Some specialize in destroying certain comps, others have huge sustain, and almost all of them do decent damage that can be buffed into pretty good or even great damage with talents. A few of the assassins have unique utility or matchups that make them OP for a scenario, but in general the philosophy in Hero League always seems to be to play the hero that fills the most holes in your comp while also generating the fewest drawbacks, which is kind of where Blizz has put the warrior role at this point in time. It's not so much the assassins are bad, just more that the warriors are plug-n-play and carry less risk.
 

zoukka

Member
Well said, assassin's are so much more vulnerable without reliable teamwork and that is a big factor in HL when solo queueing.
 

Celegus

Member
Tried the new Cho'Gall a few times and while the talents are more interesting, he seems horrible numbers wise. Gall used to easily top the charts, now he's been the same damage wise as Cho and we die so much faster. Got into a 1v1 with Artanis and had to run away screaming after a few seconds. Those numbers need some looking at.
 

Maledict

Member
My cho'gall playing friends have been utterly dominating quick match with the runic bomb build. The damage numbers on that, combined with co-ordination on the trait, get ridiculous later on.
 

scoobs

Member
They changed cho'gall a TON. I think you'll need a good 10-15 matches on him before you can really tell if he's better or worse. The trait changes alone mean he's automatically a better hero (he didn't have a trait before), I'll need to test out his new talents to see how his new builds are performing.

He's definitely more fun, that much I'm certain of.
 

brian!

Member
Want to echo the warrior instead of melee assassin thing, unless you are picking for particular purposes (stuff like alarak, kerri, zera, rag), it's quite good in the current meta to throw in a warrior instead (pref one that can solo)

Also i could have sworn i saw a decent amount of illi in hgc
 

Ketch

Member
They should move vulnerability talents off of ranged/tanks and put them on melee assassins to give them a niche. They've always been the most high risk/high reward, they could reinforce that by letting them be the ones who break armor.

Also, it's because the hero classification thing sucks.

Also, also, sera and greymane don't really count as melee assassins to me. In my mind they are damage from range.
 

brian!

Member
Yeah in the end i think the same tho you still have to account for their range, like both certainly max out their value at melee range

W/ lucio being released and tychus being a lot less safe it's a pretty good environment for warriors
 

patchday

Member
whew got Brawl done. I pretty much only mainly have time to Brawl. sometimes I grind coop AI to complete quests. I wonder if i should hop back unto ladder... This game has a lot of heroes I enjoy now esp with Valeera finally getting added. my friend has her at rank 10+ already which blows my mind.

All this time my highest level hero is rank 9 - Tyrande

Pretty much only watch Grubby at this point. His calm manner (at least most of the time) is the only one I can stomach over longer stretches, he never tires of answering questions and the replay analysis he started doing recently is pretty insightful. Seeing him play Vikings or Aba is usually a lot of fun as well. And he has a cute dawg.

grubby is an amzing streamer
 
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