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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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Petrarca

Banned
After delay, Fox's 'From Hell' is back on the menu for the blu-boys :D ...March 13th

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s..._Brings_From_Hell_Back_From_Blu-ray_Limbo/487


original.jpeg
 

Petrarca

Banned
lil' bit news about 300 on blu-ray

http://blog.wired.com/wiredphotos45/2007/02/match_game_300.html

Snyder scanned frames from Miller's graphic novel, using them to help him design not only individual shots, as when King Leonidas (Gerard Butler) shoves a Persian messenger into a bottomless well, but the entire set.

When the Blu-ray version of 300 is eventually released, you'll be able to watch the frames of the book pop up, and see how they correspond to the final scenes of the film.
 

madmook

Member
I remember one of the touted features of the next-gen disc formats was being able to have entire seasons of TV shows on a single disc. Has this come to fruition in either of the formats? And I am assuming they would only be in 480p (disappointing, but having a whole season on one disc is mighty handy).

Anyone have any information or heard anything regarding this?
 

Petrarca

Banned
madmook said:
I remember one of the touted features of the next-gen disc formats was being able to have entire seasons of TV shows on a single disc. Has this come to fruition in either of the formats? And I am assuming they would only be in 480p (disappointing, but having a whole season on one disc is mighty handy).

Anyone have any information or heard anything regarding this?

Well, let's wait till Fox releases Prison Break and 24 Season One this summer
 
madmook said:
I remember one of the touted features of the next-gen disc formats was being able to have entire seasons of TV shows on a single disc.

That will never happen! Whoever said that was a moron. The picture quality would be horrible unless they use 720p transfers. Using the 50gb disc, they can definately cut down on discs, but no one in their right mind is going to pay $59.99 for a single disc. The perceived value just isn't there.

The ultimate avengers collection is on a single 50gb disc.
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
Naked Snake said:
Wow, that must be some really good compression. What's considered a high bitrate for DVDs?

The maximum data bandwidth for the DVD Movie format is 9.6Megabits per/sec(Video+Audio+Data)...


HD-DVD has a 36.55 Megabit per/sec limit...the absolute ceiling for video on HD-DVD is 29.4 Megabits/sec....no more than this is allowed in the current HD-DVD spec......what this means is if you use the maximum video bandwidth allowed for HD-DVD, only 7.15 Mbit/sec is left for audio/data, meaning you only have enough bandwidth left over for Dolby Digital Plus (6.144 Mbit/sec), but not dts-HD Master audio lossless or Dolby TrueHD lossless audio (both have 18Mbit/sec max bandwidth)


Blu-ray, OTOH, has a 54 Megabit/sec maximum data rate and you can use a full 40 Megabit/sec for video alone!! :)D)....more than what HD-DVD allows for Video+Audio+Data!!!

Also note that if you used 30Mbit/sec for video on Blu-ray (exceeding the HD-DVD Video max by .6 Mbit/sec) you would also have enough bandwidth left over for 7.1 channels of max rate Dolby TrueHD, dts-HD Master Audio Lossless or uncompressed 7.1ch LPCM audio PLUS you would still have another 6 Mbit/sec bandwidth to spare!!!!

In other words, Blu Ray for the win :)
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
1170029091182.gif



mckmas8808 said:
300 on blu-ray FTW.

Some early details on the BR release:

http://blog.wired.com/wiredphotos45/2007/02/match_game_300.html
"Snyder scanned frames from Miller's graphic novel, using them to help him design not only individual shots, as when King Leonidas (Gerard Butler) shoves a Persian messenger into a bottomless well, but the entire set.

When the Blu-ray version of 300 is eventually released, you'll be able to watch the frames of the book pop up, and see how they correspond to the final scenes of the film."



:D :D :D


At any rate, Warner is releasing 300 so I am sure it will be on HD-DVD too......though it is very intresting wired magazine is only hyping up the Blu-ray version at this point *shrugs*



What I am REALLY intrested it, is if Warner is going to screw Blu-ray buyers with an inferior Dolby Digital soundtrack (compared to the Dolby TrueHD HD-DVD version)

OR

Perhaps their newest Blu-ray release of "The Departed" will signal a change for the better (Uncompressed LPCM audio)
 

Petrarca

Banned
Aussies get Casino Royale too!!! ......the first 20,000 PS3

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6166227.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;3

Casino Royale, GT HD to come free with Aussie PS3s
Latest James Bond movie to come free for first 20,000 Aussie PlayStation 3 owners; PS3 accessories priced.
By Randolph Ramsay, GameSpot AU
Posted Feb 21, 2007 8:05 pm PT

Keen Aussie PlayStation 3 purchasers will be receiving the same movie freebie as their UK counterparts come March, with confirmation today that the Blu-ray version of Casino Royale will be given free to the first 20,000 Australians who register on the PlayStation network.

The announcement was made today at Sony Computer Entertainment Australia's (SCEA) official media launch for the PS3 held in The Sydney Theatre, Sydney, which was attended by more than 350 journalists and game industry professionals. Casino Royale has earned more than US$560 million at the box office worldwide and will debut on a 50GB dual-layer Blu-ray Disc encoded in MPEG-4 AVC.

SCEA also confirmed that Gran Turismo HD Concept would be a free download for Australians from the PlayStation Network. The game will feature one full track and 10 playable cars.

Only the 60GB version of the PS3 will be made available in Australia when the console launches on 23 March. The console itself will cost A$999.95 ($791). SCEA also used today's event to unveil pricing for PS3 accessories. Additional Sixaxis wireless controllers will retail for A$79.95 ($63), the Blu-ray disc remote control will cost A$49.95 ($39), a PS3 component cable will cost A$39.95 ($31), and a PS3 S Video cable will set gamers back A$29.95 ($23). First-party PS3 games such as Resistance: Fall of Man, MotorStorm, Genji: Days of the Blade, Formula One Championship Edition, and Ridge Racer 7 will retail for A$99.95 ($79).
 
Kleegamefan said:
The maximum data bandwidth for the DVD Movie format is 9.6Megabits per/sec(Video+Audio+Data)...


HD-DVD has a 36.55 Megabit per/sec limit...the absolute ceiling for video on HD-DVD is 29.4 Megabits/sec....no more than this is allowed in the current HD-DVD spec......what this means is if you use the maximum video bandwidth allowed for HD-DVD, only 7.15 Mbit/sec is left for audio/data, meaning you only have enough bandwidth left over for Dolby Digital Plus (6.144 Mbit/sec), but not dts-HD Master audio lossless or Dolby TrueHD lossless audio (both have 18Mbit/sec max bandwidth)


Blu-ray, OTOH, has a 54 Megabit/sec maximum data rate and you can use a full 40 Megabit/sec for video alone!! :)D)....more than what HD-DVD allows for Video+Audio+Data!!!

Also note that if you used 30Mbit/sec for video on Blu-ray (exceeding the HD-DVD Video max by .6 Mbit/sec) you would also have enough bandwidth left over for 7.1 channels of max rate Dolby TrueHD, dts-HD Master Audio Lossless or uncompressed 7.1ch LPCM audio PLUS you would still have another 6 Mbit/sec bandwidth to spare!!!!

In other words, Blu Ray for the win :)

Yup. So which would you rather have for long term (10+ years)? It's also why so few HD DVDs have Lossless audio and the ones that do have low VC-1 bitrates.
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
It should also be noted that Sony's new implementation of AVC encoding is much better than VC1.

Not sure what (if any) titles are using or slated to be using it at this point though (it was just announced a few months back).

Think about it though. BluRay has more video bandwidth to begin with ... but now it isn't apples to apples ... that bandwidth is actually better.



More bandwidth + better compression = awesomeness!!!!! :D
 

TAJ

Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Kleegamefan said:
HD-DVD has a 36.55 Megabit per/sec limit...the absolute ceiling for video on HD-DVD is 29.4 Megabits/sec....no more than this is allowed in the current HD-DVD spec......what this means is if you use the maximum video bandwidth allowed for HD-DVD, only 7.15 Mbit/sec is left for audio/data, meaning you only have enough bandwidth left over for Dolby Digital Plus (6.144 Mbit/sec), but not dts-HD Master audio lossless or Dolby TrueHD lossless audio (both have 18Mbit/sec max bandwidth)

The real world called and says that Dolby TrueHD 5.1 tracks tend to peak around 2.3 Mbps, and are as low as 1.5 Mbps a lot of the time. Also, the highest bitrate I've seen for Dolby Digital Plus is 1.5 Mbps from a bunch of Universal discs.

Also, it's bizarre that they're mentioning BRD specifically, since this is the sort of thing that has been done on HDDVD already, and 300 is from Warner Bros., which is neutral.
 
Onix said:
It should also be noted that Sony's new implementation of AVC encoding is much better than VC1.

Not sure what (if any) titles are using or slated to be using it at this point though (it was just announced a few months back).

Think about it though. BluRay has more video bandwidth to begin with ... but now it isn't apples to apples ... that bandwidth is actually better.



More bandwidth + better compression = awesomeness!!!!! :D

The thing is, if you look at the VC-1 transfers of Superman Returns, and Lady in the Water, they both show examples of lacking the proper bitrate. It's unfortunate that Warner used the same transfer made for HD DVD on the Blu-ray versions. I've seen HD DVD fans on AVS defend it saying: "Well, they reached transparency to the master". I say bullshit! Watching both these discs on my PS3, the bitrates are terrible. Lady in the Water at one point goes down to 8mbps. That's nearing DVD bitrates for God's sake! There is no way they're nearing transparency with the softness and noise.

Since VC-1 was designed as a high compression/low bitrate codec, it's seems like it's really inefficient at high bitrates in its development at the moment. This is where AVC kicks its ass, and why I prefer AVC over VC-1.
 

Captain N

Junior Member
what movie has the best case? I happen to think that The Prestige does just because it's a dual sides cover..or well they have the Scene Selections on the inside of the case right through the blue case.
 

Petrarca

Banned
Captain N said:
what movie has the best case? I happen to think that The Prestige does just because it's a dual sides cover..or well they have the Scene Selections on the inside of the case right through the blue case.

in honesty I despise blu-ray/HD-DVD cheap plastic cases. If there's third party vendor making customed tin-cases, I'd be happy to pay $5-$7 extra
 

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Petrarca said:
in honesty I despise blu-ray/HD-DVD cheap plastic cases. If there's third party vendor making customed tin-cases, I'd be happy to pay $5-$7 extra

The transparency just comes of cheesy IMO ... plus they feel a bit flimsy.


However, I do much prefer the form-factor versus DVD. DVD cases just seem unnecessarily large now.
 
There's 3 kinds of Blu-ray cases. Ones with circular flattened feet, with rounded corners, and others with more of a boxy corner. There's also 2 shades of Blue. For example, my Kingdom of Heaven is a light blue color that is very transparent, and my Flyboys is a dark blue color that isn't all that transparent. I wish all Blu-rays would have the darker color.
 

Petrarca

Banned
DarkJediKnight said:

Not surprising, but a milesone nonetheless. And looks like blu-studios re-affirmed their commitments

The scales tipped in favor of Blu-ray Disc the week ended Feb. 18, according to preliminary data.

...

““Game over. We see that the consumer is voting with their dollars with a clear preference for Blu-ray,” Chapek said. “This clear, objective measure shows the writing is on the wall.”

...

“Seeing HD DVD in our rear-view mirror is no surprise to us,” added David Bishop, worldwide home entertainment president, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment.

...

“As we noted at CES, the format war is in its final phase,” said Steven Feldstein, SVP of marketing communications at 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment. “It’s never been a question of if Blu-ray will pass HD DVD, but a matter of when.”
 

Petrarca

Banned
Pristine_Condition said:
Video Guru Joe Kane and Sony's Don Eklund talk about codecs and Blu-ray specs here:

http://www.avguide.com/the-perfect-vision/76/bluray.php

Interesting article.

In summary, while HD-DVD had achieved its peak performance, Blu-ray has much more potential and surpassing HD-DVD performance

Kane points out that Blu-ray has the potential to be even better than HD DVD for a number of reasons. Chief among them is the fact that Blu-ray players have twice the buffer memory of their HD DVD counterparts, which allows the peak data rate to extend much higher on variable bit-rate (VBR) titles, improving the picture quality of complex scenes. Also, Blu-ray titles are flagged for 1080p/24 playback, which results in much smoother motion on a display that can show frames at multiples of 24fps. By contrast, HD DVD defaults to 1080p/60, adding judder (jerkiness in the moving image), though it is possible to output 1080p/24.
 

joshcryer

it's ok, you're all right now
Am I the only one here who feels geniunely bad for the HD-DVD guys? I really feel bad for them. And it's not like I was rooting for a next gen format (other than the fact that PS3 is something I was going to get regardless). It's just a crappy situation created by evil evil corporations. It'll be a good day when this crap is over.

But until then I'll just feel sorry for the relative loser.
 

Petrarca

Banned
joshcryer said:
Am I the only one here who feels geniunely bad for the HD-DVD guys? I really feel bad for them. And it's not like I was rooting for a next gen format (other than the fact that PS3 is something I was going to get regardless). It's just a crappy situation created by evil evil corporations. It'll be a good day when this crap is over.

But until then I'll just feel sorry for the relative loser.

They knew what they were getting into. They knew that there is little studio support, they knew that PS3 was coming, and yet they still wasted their money on it. So no, I don't feel sorry for their conscious decision
 

Alcibiades

Member
are you serious? feeling bad?

Blu-ray owners may have more studio support, but that doesn't mean HD DVD isn't getting anything. The 4 major studios supporting HD DVD aren't going to stop making movies for HD DVD, and Dreamworks is set to announce titles for both formats soon (starting with Dreamgirls and Flags of our Fathers).

While I would prefer a wider library (heck, even counting both formats I'd prefer a better library), there are already a ton of releases for people that chose HD DVD, and a ton more to come.

Comparing the "major studio" situation:

HD DVD
Warner Bros.
New Line
HBO
Paramount
Dreamworks
Universal
Weinstein Co.

Blu-ray
Warner Bros.
New Line
HBO
Paramount
Dreamworks
Sony
Fox
MGM
Disney
Lion's Gate


Unless studios stop producing HD DVDs (and no sign that will happen anytime soon), it's basically a matter of both formats getting a lot of content, and some of it being exclusive to one side or the other. While I envy that Blu-ray will be getting Day After Tomorrow (one of my favorite movies) pretty soon, I'm sure some Blu-ray owners envy King Kong and Batman Begins on HD DVD. Goes both ways.
 

Kleegamefan

K. LEE GAIDEN
TAJ said:
The real world called and says that Dolby TrueHD 5.1 tracks tend to peak around 2.3 Mbps, and are as low as 1.5 Mbps a lot of the time. Also, the highest bitrate I've seen for Dolby Digital Plus is 1.5 Mbps from a bunch of Universal discs.

Also, it's bizarre that they're mentioning BRD specifically, since this is the sort of thing that has been done on HDDVD already, and 300 is from Warner Bros., which is neutral.



Yeah, and why do you think that is???


DTHD soundtracks on HD-DVD are encoded at a relatively low rate why?

Because they have to be!!!


True lossless quality audio is transparent to an LPCM master and can you really tell me the DTHD audio tracks on HD-DVD are at that level?:lol
 

Alcibiades

Member
Dolby TrueHD is just a form of compression.

Depending on the players, sound equipment, receiver, cables, etc... is SHOULD sound identical to an LCPM master. There is no reason they shouldn't. The only difference you'll be hearing have to do with the quality of the sound equipment or sound levels. TrueHD is lossless.

Does a Microsoft Word file lose quality when it's compressed in a zip file? It's a direct copy and that's what TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are supposed to do.
 

teiresias

Member
Alcibiades said:
Dolby TrueHD is just a form of compression.

Depending on the players, sound equipment, receiver, cables, etc... is SHOULD sound identical to an LCPM master. There is no reason they shouldn't. The only difference you'll be hearing have to do with the quality of the sound equipment or sound levels. TrueHD is lossless.

Does a Microsoft Word file lose quality when it's compressed in a zip file? It's a direct copy and that's what TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are supposed to do.

Well, some reviews have pointed out audible differences between HD-DVD lossless tracks and Blu-Ray uncompressed PCM tracks in the Blu-Ray's favor on at least one release (Departed maybe? I can't remember which disc it was now).

In any case, I believe Amirm at AVS theorized the differences were because of some post-processing being done to the HD-DVD audio to facilitate the on-the-fly mixing of the sound if you were to engage the commentary track or other "on-the-fly" audio stuff that would have to be mixed in with the audio. This is one reason I'm not too amazed with some of these iHD and BD-J features that some people go gaga over, because they are possibly being detrimental to the presentation of the actual feature just to give us some "wiz bang" "ooo aaaaa" extras that I couldn't really care less about.
 
Kleegamefan said:
The maximum data bandwidth for the DVD Movie format is 9.6Megabits per/sec(Video+Audio+Data)...


HD-DVD has a 36.55 Megabit per/sec limit...the absolute ceiling for video on HD-DVD is 29.4 Megabits/sec....no more than this is allowed in the current HD-DVD spec......what this means is if you use the maximum video bandwidth allowed for HD-DVD, only 7.15 Mbit/sec is left for audio/data, meaning you only have enough bandwidth left over for Dolby Digital Plus (6.144 Mbit/sec), but not dts-HD Master audio lossless or Dolby TrueHD lossless audio (both have 18Mbit/sec max bandwidth)


Blu-ray, OTOH, has a 54 Megabit/sec maximum data rate and you can use a full 40 Megabit/sec for video alone!! :)D)....more than what HD-DVD allows for Video+Audio+Data!!!

Also note that if you used 30Mbit/sec for video on Blu-ray (exceeding the HD-DVD Video max by .6 Mbit/sec) you would also have enough bandwidth left over for 7.1 channels of max rate Dolby TrueHD, dts-HD Master Audio Lossless or uncompressed 7.1ch LPCM audio PLUS you would still have another 6 Mbit/sec bandwidth to spare!!!!

In other words, Blu Ray for the win :)

Awesome. Thanks for the detailed breakdown.
 

djkimothy

Member
Alcibiades said:
Unless studios stop producing HD DVDs (and no sign that will happen anytime soon), it's basically a matter of both formats getting a lot of content, and some of it being exclusive to one side or the other. While I envy that Blu-ray will be getting Day After Tomorrow (one of my favorite movies) pretty soon, I'm sure some Blu-ray owners envy King Kong and Batman Begins on HD DVD. Goes both ways.

But isn't Batman Begins slated for a Blu-Ray release?

And who cares for King Kong?
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
djkimothy said:
But isn't Batman Begins slated for a Blu-Ray release?

Not until BD-J can completely copy the HDi features on the BB HD-DVD. Right now, it can't (Descent just put two versions of the movie on the disc, it wasn't true PnP like HD-DVD uses). Until BD-J can support separate video streams, the HDi Warner titles (Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, Constantine, Dukes of Hazzard, Terminator 3, Troy, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, etc.) will remain HD-DVD exclusive as Warner doesn't want to waste money to have to make a dumbed-down and inferior versions by removing the HDi special features.
 

djkimothy

Member
ManaByte said:
Not until BD-J can completely copy the HDi features on the BB HD-DVD. Right now, it can't (Descent just put two versions of the movie on the disc, it wasn't true PnP like HD-DVD uses). Until BD-J can support separate video streams, the HDi Warner titles (Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, Constantine, Dukes of Hazzard, Terminator 3, Troy, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, etc.) will remain HD-DVD exclusive as Warner doesn't want to waste money to have to make a dumbed-down and inferior versions by removing the HDi special features.

But it will be released right? It's inevitable.
 

Petrarca

Banned
Analysts: European HD market will be painted blu

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/105929/playstation-3-the-key-to-bluray-format-triumph-research.html

PlayStation 3 the key to Blu-ray format triumph - research 2:51PM, Friday 23rd February 2007
The PlayStation 3 looks set to drive Sony's Blu-ray high-definition format into pole position, according to research.

Understanding & Solutions says it has identified a huge gap in the numbers of homes in Western Europe which have HD-ready screens and the number of those that have the means to play HD content or receive HD content.

The research group predicts that by 2010, some 115m HD-ready screens will be installed in European homes, but only 17m homes will be located within reach of HD broadcast signals.

This, the company claims, will create demand for HD content that will make the PS3's Blu-ray capabilities one of the main reasons to buy one, rather than being viewed simply as an extra.

So successful will the PS3 be - believes Understanding & Solutions - it is expected to make up 52 per cent of all HD players by 2010, with sales in excess of 28 million.

A spokesperson told us that having to go out and buy the HD DVD player separately for the Xbox 360 may turn out to be HD DVD's Achilles' heel: making it less robust in competing against Blu-ray which the evidence points towards being favoured by the movie industry.

In the US last year, 90 per cent of the top selling movies were available in Blu-ray, compared with just 20 per cent on HD DVD.

This is backed up by the fact that seven out of eight studios support the Blu-ray format, and five of these do so on an exclusive basis.

With home video sales and rentals making up half of their revenues, movie studios will be looking to HD to sustain those revenue levels.

'In Western Europe, we forecast the total installed base of Blu-ray players and recorders, including PS3 and PC Drives, to have grown to over 45 million by 2010,' said Jim Bottoms, Managing Director, Understanding & Solutions. 'And with Blu-ray accounting for upwards of 75 per cent of all player sales each year, our analysis leads us to conclude that Blu-ray will be the clear winner.'

Sony's PS3 will launch in Europe on 23 March.
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
djkimothy said:
But it will be released right? It's inevitable.

If they are eventually able to match HDi on BRD then it will. Aside from a lot of FUD, there really isn't anything concrete as to when BRD will be able to match the dual video streams HDi uses for the PnP video.
 

Woo-Fu

Banned
madmook said:
I remember one of the touted features of the next-gen disc formats was being able to have entire seasons of TV shows on a single disc.

They could've done that with DVD if they really wanted to. They'll just use the extra space to go from 480i + dpl to fullon HD and couple 7.1 or better surround tracks.

They don't want you buying just one disc when they can charge you for 4 or 5.
 

djkimothy

Member
ManaByte said:
If they are eventually able to match HDi on BRD then it will. Aside from a lot of FUD, there really isn't anything concrete as to when BRD will be able to match the dual video streams HDi uses for the PnP video.

Pfft, then no big deal.

I think there are plenty of titles to enjoy until BB arrives. The only HDDVD film I'm waiting on. :D
 
Fox announced yesterday that the Johnny Depp vehicle "From Hell" that was previously delayed will release March 13. (See Petrarca's post above.) It will have BD-J features. BD-J rollout begins...
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Pristine_Condition said:
Fox announced yesterday that the Johnny Depp vehicle "From Hell" that was previously delayed will release March 13. (See Petrarca's post above.) It will have BD-J features. BD-J rollout begins...

BD-J features isn't the same as dual video stream HDi PnP. Descent did have BD-J features, but BD-J can't yet duplicate the dual video stream HDi uses for its PnP (which those exclusive Warner titles use very heavily). From Hell just uses BD-J for a trivia track.

Even both Pirates discs don't mention anything about the PnP use. Their BD-J features are a pop-up trivia track on Black Pearl and a Java-based FMV game on Dead Man's Chest.

Again, until BD-J can do dual video stream PnP; you won't see Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, or any of the other HD-DVD Warner titles be ported over unless they strip all the special features from them and release a gimped version; which Warner says they don't want to do with any HD release (although stuff like The Departed have already suffered due to being on both formats since they couldn't do any fancy special features).
 

wasting

Banned
Pristine_Condition said:
Fox announced yesterday that the Johnny Depp vehicle "From Hell" that was previously delayed will release March 13. (See Petrarca's post above.) It will have BD-J features. BD-J rollout begins...

what are the BD-J features? Pop-up trivia track is the only one listed
 
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