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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
DarkJediKnight said:
Umm, what I was saying was: give credit where credit is due. Regardless of format. This is something HDD is incapable of, it seems.

No you didnt. Your entire post was examples of why BRD is better in your opinion, and the fact that they didnt see it that way is proof that they are biased towards HDDVD. There have been few discs on either format that got 5/5 in both Audio and Video. POTC and Matrix (along with the HDDVD of Happy Feet) are the only ones AFAIK.

Heck, this ultra biased site was the one running the erroneous story that universal movies werent playing at all on 360 add ons... and the same one that said lossless PCM sounds slightly better than TrueHD.
 
rubso said:
I demand you pickup Matrix and PoTC ASAP! and start Comparing, Matrix PQ is *jaw dropping* even on my 1080i Sammy HDTV!

You have a 1080i tv, I have a 1080p Projector with a 120" screen. I think I would be able to tell the difference of 1080p transfers easier than you can. I own both Pirates and Matrix. Anyone who says that Matrix looks more impressive than Pirates is full of shit. Matrix looks excellent and I am not dissapointed in the least. The 1st movie is also nearly 10 years old, and to compare it to Pirates films 1-3 years old isn't fair either.

Please links to their PoTC and Matrix Reviews, Thanks in advance.

I was refering to their reviews in general. I've read 2 reviews that claim Dead Man's Chest is the best HD ever. But that means nothing to me now that I've seen it and can make my own judgement on it.

When it comes to buying HD-DVD/Bluray movies, I make decisions based on their reviews, I find them the most reliable source till now.

You can base your purchases on whomever you want. I base my purchases on people who are fair and have the proper equipment to judge. Finally, I use my own eyes and ears since my equipment is for the most part better than the majority of the reviewers.

Reasons I don't trust HighDefDigest:
- The inability to distinguish Film style from quality of transfer, thus influencing video scores.
- Giving 480p extras discs the same ratings as discs with 1080p extras, even if contents are largely similar.
- Wildly inconsistent audio scores
 

rubso

Banned
DarkJediKnight said:
You have a 1080i tv, I have a 1080p Projector with a 120" screen. I think I would be able to tell the difference of 1080p transfers easier than you can. I own both Pirates and Matrix. Anyone who says that Matrix looks more impressive than Pirates is full of shit. Matrix looks excellent and I am not dissapointed in the least. The 1st movie is also nearly 10 years old, and to compare it to Pirates films 1-3 years old isn't fair either.
I can't tell the "HUGE" difference then, since I'm using the PS3 as a Blu-ray Player and an 1080i HDTV.
how old is the movie, isn't a problem.
I've read somewhere that a standard 35mm film has a 3x to 5x more resolution than 1080p, That's why Casablanca (1942) has a GREAT PQ in VC-1/HD-DVD.
 
rubso said:
how old is the movie, isn't a problem.

Ugh, dude, I'm not going to get into a discussion about this. It's been dealt with before. The transfer is heavily dependent on the film master. As a movie ages, the master deteriorates. Depending on the restoration or preservation, it can come out looking great.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
DarkJediKnight said:
Ugh, dude, I'm not going to get into a discussion about this. It's been dealt with before. The transfer is heavily dependent on the film master. As a movie ages, the master deteriorates. Depending on the restoration or preservation, it can come out looking great.

Exactly.

99% of the time the master is going to have more to do with the films quality than the quality of the transfer at this point. Obviously there are exceptions, but a good looking master (or new master) generally turns into a good BRD/HDDVD. Which is why the Matrix sequals look much better than the original. They are newer and in better shape (plus, they probably struck a digital master off the film, which happens right away for most movies since about 2001).

Casablanca is just in great shape and had been remastered. Compare that to Bullit which is in terrible shape and is full of grain.

Also, movies from the 70's are generally going to look bad because the color pallette they used back then looks flat and oversaturated.

Digital Movies (Crank, Planet Earth) are also going to look more 3d than movies shot on film. The tradeoff here is they will look grainy during dark scenes.

Ive been preaching this since day 1 of this format war. "Its the master stupid." Most of the time the quality of the master is going to have alot more to do with picture than anything else (unless the transfer is just completely messed up like Fifth Element or Army of Darkness)
 

rubso

Banned
Ignatz Mouse said:
Bluray/HD-DVD Takeover Watch Thread warmly welcomes Rubso back the thread.

Can't wait for the next gif.
Party at 9 PM!
Ugh, dude, I'm not going to get into a discussion about this. It's been dealt with before. The transfer is heavily dependent on the film master. As a movie ages, the master deteriorates. Depending on the restoration or preservation, it can come out looking great.
I wasn't going to open a discussion about 35mm and HD movies, just a quick info to prove that you can still "compare" between HD movies PQ despite of how old it is, right?
P.S: and Matrix isn't that old, btw!
Edit: totally agree with Stooge
 
final-fantasy-spirits-within.jpg


Final Fantasy hits Blu-ray.

Sony Pictures Home Entertainment has announced that they will bring 'Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within' on August 7th; it will be presented in 1.85:1 1080p video and PCM 5.1 audio, and will feature most of the extras from the DVD.

Not much of a fan of this film but I was one of the 10 people who went to see it in the theaters. It looked and sounded good. Some people really loved it, despite it not being all that faithful to the games.
 
So, still loving my 360 HD DVD add-on *ducks*

However, where the hell are the hybrid players and why are they still above $1,000!?!?!?!?! There going to be a price drop anytime soon?
 

teiresias

Member
DarkJediKnight said:
final-fantasy-spirits-within.jpg


Final Fantasy hits Blu-ray.

Sony Pictures Home Entertainment has announced that they will bring 'Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within' on August 7th; it will be presented in 1.85:1 1080p video and PCM 5.1 audio, and will feature most of the extras from the DVD.

Not much of a fan of this film but I was one of the 10 people who went to see it in the theaters. It looked and sounded good. Some people really loved it, despite it not being all that faithful to the games.

It was also one of the first CG movie transfers to DVD that "featured" the infamous "artistic grain" where they added grain to the transfer to give it that "cinematic" look. Such practices need to die.

In other news, I switched the PS3 over to HDMI to try out the 1080/24p on my PT-AE900 projector. Holy crap!! Once you see it you can't go back - not to mention the colors seem to pop alot more over HDMI than via Component. I really need to buy an HDMI switch or bite the bullet and take the Oppo out of the loop.
 
teiresias said:
It was also one of the first CG movie transfers to DVD that "featured" the infamous "artistic grain" where they added grain to the transfer to give it that "cinematic" look. Such practices need to die.

In other news, I switched the PS3 over to HDMI to try out the 1080/24p on my PT-AE900 projector. Holy crap!! Once you see it you can't go back - not to mention the colors seem to pop alot more over HDMI than via Component. I really need to buy an HDMI switch or bite the bullet and take the Oppo out of the loop.


Is that just setting the PS3 to 1080i out and letting the projector do the rest?
 

jet1911

Member
AgentOtaku said:
Final_Fantasy_TSW_DVD.jpg


....well I for one am looking forward to Spirits Within

...one of the 4 people on earth that really like it alot

Hey I liked it too. :D

Can't wait to see it in HD, it should look amazing.
 

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I love that movie and will buy it on Blu-ray. I think more people like this movie that person understand.
 

teiresias

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
Is that just setting the PS3 to 1080i out and letting the projector do the rest?

Do you have a AE900? You need to make sure your display supports it and be using HDMI. It seems you don't even need to have any of the 1080 modes selected in 'Display Settings' on the PS3. I just have 720p selected and the 1080/24p setting set to "Automatic" (it's under the PS3's BD/DVD Settings menu) and it outputs 1080/24p to the AE900.

Unlike running 1080/60 or 720/60 though, there are alot of "bluescreen" flicks as the resolution changes, since apparently not all the memos and copyright law warnings are in 1080/24p and the PS3 has to switch back and forth more than when in running one of the other modes. Shouldn't bother you at all once the movie is actually running.

I didn't realize how noticeable the 60 cadence was until I watched some POTC1 and Silent Hill using the 1080/24p option. I believe the AE900 changes it to 48Hz though for display, not sure though, but I think it just doubles each frame. I'd have to do a search on avs or somewhere to get the specifics.
 
burnfout said:
How about the sales of the players, how much Bluray VS HDDVD players have been sold, and how are they selling right now?

Short answer-- it's really hard to tell, becuase not everybody who buys a PS3 is interested in BluRay movies, and far, far more PS3s have been sold than any standalone.
 
teiresias said:
Do you have a AE900? You need to make sure your display supports it and be using HDMI. It seems you don't even need to have any of the 1080 modes selected in 'Display Settings' on the PS3. I just have 720p selected and the 1080/24p setting set to "Automatic" (it's under the PS3's BD/DVD Settings menu) and it outputs 1080/24p to the AE900.

Unlike running 1080/60 or 720/60 though, there are alot of "bluescreen" flicks as the resolution changes, since apparently not all the memos and copyright law warnings are in 1080/24p and the PS3 has to switch back and forth more than when in running one of the other modes. Shouldn't bother you at all once the movie is actually running.

I didn't realize how noticeable the 60 cadence was until I watched some POTC1 and Silent Hill using the 1080/24p option. I believe the AE900 changes it to 48Hz though for display, not sure though, but I think it just doubles each frame. I'd have to do a search on avs or somewhere to get the specifics.

I have the PT-AE900U, which is the one you're talking about, I assume. I will have to try it out. Since the native resolution of the player is 720p, I just recently switched to that once the PS3 supported BluRay at that resolution. I'm interested to see the difference.
 

teiresias

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
I have the PT-AE900U, which is the one you're talking about, I assume. I will have to try it out. Since the native resolution of the player is 720p, I just recently switched to that once the PS3 supported BluRay at that resolution. I'm interested to see the difference.


The PT-AE900 automatically scales the 1080/24p properly - to 720/48p I'd assume by what I remember reading - but I'd have to do a search again to make sure I'm getting the specifics correct. In any case, you just set everything up in the PS3, I didn't have to make any setting changes on the AE900.

Note though, if you're passing your HDMI signal through some secondary source (ie. going through a receiver or HDMI switch before getting to the projector), some people have had issues with some receivers not properly passing the 1080/24p signal. I'd hope these issues would be cleared up in the forthcoming HDMI 1.3 receivers.
 

djkimothy

Member
Wow, so I saw the last have of Dead Man's chest last night and I was blown away by the clarity. The kickass and seemless special effects really make the picture convincing.

I know I'm already a High Def snob, but now I'm an even more of a snob with such picture clarity.

I also saw Crank. WOW is all I have to say for this MPEG-2 transfer. Why aren't all movies filmed this way?
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
We will never have a good idea of player sales.

Sony will count all PS3's as sold players. Toshiba will only compare stand alone players in comparisons (it includes the 360 add on as a standalone in these numbers, which I guess makes sense).

So unless you think every PS3 owners is buying BRD or no PS3 owner is buying BRD than the numbers we get are useless.

Oh, and Spirits Within really isnt a bad movie. The story isnt great, but its not horrid either. I think it got alot of critical hate, but people that have played a FF game since FF6 sorta new what to expect going in.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
djkimothy said:
I also saw Crank. WOW is all I have to say for this MPEG-2 transfer. Why aren't all movies filmed this way?

More movies are being filmed this way (Robert Rodriguez is a huge fan of it).. the technology is still pretty new and alot of directors prefer film and probably allways will. Not only does it give you more of a "looking through a window" feeling than film, its a heck of alot cheaper to shoot a movie digitally.

The only real downside of the technology is heavy grain in dimly lit scenes. Not a huge issue in crank, but you can really see it on Planet Earth in some of the dark scenes.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
I took my sister to the movies for Final Fantasy. She still hates me for it. :(

I thought the movie was decent. I never bothered with the dvd, though.

On another note, Universal is on fire!!! Damn, they are really firing on all cylinders now. They just announced 4 more catalog titles for August: Erin Brockovich, Meet the Fockers, Mercury Rising, and What Dreams May Come.

HD DVD is certainly Uni-land. :lol
 

djkimothy

Member
StoOgE said:
More movies are being filmed this way (Robert Rodriguez is a huge fan of it).. the technology is still pretty new and alot of directors prefer film and probably allways will. Not only does it give you more of a "looking through a window" feeling than film, its a heck of alot cheaper to shoot a movie digitally.

The only real downside of the technology is heavy grain in dimly lit scenes. Not a huge issue in crank, but you can really see it on Planet Earth in some of the dark scenes.

I see. It's too bad about the drawback of noise in dark scenes, it's very apparent in Planet Earth, but I don't mind it in the documentary context. Hopefully more people will adopt this way of filming, cause it looks nice! :D
 

wasting

Banned
Universals Ken Graffeo answers some questions.
http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/20070530_Jonathan_Takiff___Universals_gamble__Will_consumer_win_.html

THE GIZMO: Universal Home Entertainment holds the HD-DVD fort . . . and maybe the keys.
In what's shaping up as an electronics industry trial of the century - between two incompatible, high-definition video-disc formats - the holdout juror is Ken Graffeo, Universal Home Video executive vice president of HD strategic marketing. And he may very well upset the whole case.

Every other Hollywood studio (that would be Sony, Fox and Disney) is either backing the Blu-Ray high-def disc format exclusively or maintaining a Swiss-like neutrality.

In the latter camp are the likes of Warner Bros. and Paramount, issuing titles on both Blu-Ray and its close but incompatible rival, HD-DVD, and calling on other studios to do the same.

But then there's Graffeo's company. Universal Home Entertainment is the one and only "major" exclusively backing the other combatant in this trial, putting out content only on HD-DVD.

That means that if you crave a high-definition disc version of, say, "The 40 Year Old Virgin" or the futuristic thriller "Children of Men," the first season of "Heroes" (out Aug. 28), or any of the other 100-plus HD titles that Universal will deliver this year, then you've gotta accept his vision and buy an HD-DVD player.

What is this man thinking? We had to ask.

Q: I imagine the pressure on you is pretty intense when you talk with your studio peers. Having two rival formats keeps most consumers on the sidelines waiting for a winner. How do you respond to that?

A: I'd argue that this format war is actually beneficial to the consumer. A little over a year ago, the least expensive HD-DVD player was $799. Now, with Toshiba's current rebate promotion (good through June 16), you can get an HD-DVD player for as little as $299.

On the Blu-Ray side, the players started at $1,000 to $1,800 at the end of [2006] and this summer will be down to $599 with new models from Sony and Panasonic. It's the format war that's driving pricing down at such a dramatic, accelerated rate.

Q: Why did Universal opt for HD-DVD?

A: Several years ago, we looked at the technology and decided that this format would offer the better set of mandatory specifications.

From day one, every HD-DVD player made has to have an Ethernet port for online connectivity. And every player had software to support unique, interactive viewing experiences either programmed onto a disc or available online. We're exploiting this on many Universal releases.

In Blu-Ray, the interactive specs are still just an option. The only Blu-Ray player now sold with an Ethernet port is the PlayStation 3.

A lot of their players can't even support the interactive BD-Java software that's running the two new (Blu-Ray-exclusive) "Pirates of the Caribbean" titles.

[Editor's note: The balking Samsung, Philips and Sony players will eventually show the "Pirates" discs but only after a firmware upgrade.]

In fact, the Ethernet and Java specs for Blu-Ray won't be fully firmed up until Oct. 31.

That's why Warner Bros. is putting out a more sophisticated, online-connected version of "Blood Diamond" on HD-DVD, and also why they've put out "Batman Begins" and the new "Matrix" box sets first on HD-DVD.

Q: How about the manufacturing costs?

A: Also very important - and lower for HD-DVD discs and players.

When you can get below $300 for hardware, you open up the mass market. Now people are willing to jump in and buy a player.

Even if the other format were to eventually win, there's no risk. Because that HD-DVD player you buy will still play your regular DVDs and, by upconverting, will actually make the discs look better.

I can't imagine Blu-Ray getting even close to a $300 player this year. I expect their lead dog, PlayStation 3 [now $599], to drop $100, but that's it.

Q: Sales figures for Blu-Ray movie discs are significantly higher this year than for HD-DVD. How do you counter the argument that the tide has turned in Blu-Ray's favor?

A: We didn't have many hot releases in the first quarter, or many releases at all. They had some real biggies, like "Casino Royale." The fourth quarter will be telling. Our releases will be stronger, and we're looking for a big attach rate [that's disc sales per player] when people jump for an inexpensive HD-DVD machine to show off their new high-def TV set.

To that end, we're doing a lot to educate the retailers and the consumers. You know, there are now HD sets in probably 25 million households. But more than half of those owners still believe, incorrectly, that anything they plug in - including basic cable and standard-definition DVD - is going to be in "high definition" on those sets. We've got to show them what they're missing. *

ahh, that bluray support is right around the corner right guys?? :lol
 
wasting said:
ahh, that bluray support is right around the corner right guys?? :lol

Well, I've been saying that we won;t see Universal releases on BluRay this year, so I'm not sure who you're talking to.

But I will say-- Universal movies on BluRay a loooooooong time before Sony Pictures (or even Disney/Pixar) on HD-DVD! :lol
 

Mrbob

Member
Doesn't matter, really. HD movies still in their infancy, and Universal just keeps on delaying the inevitable.

In fact, from a business perspective it may not be that bad of choice to be the only major studio backing HD DVD right now. All the HD DVD fanboys love them for being the last holdout, and they get a bigger piece of the pie as they are really the only ones flooding the format with a vast amount of titles. They make some money now, and after Blu Ray penetration becomes big enough to where they can't resist anymore they'll make money again.
 

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
Mrbob said:
Doesn't matter, really. HD movies still in their infancy, and Universal just keeps on delaying the inevitable.

In fact, from a business perspective it may not be that bad of choice to be the only major studio backing HD DVD right now. All the HD DVD fanboys love them for being the last holdout, and they get a bigger piece of the pie as they are really the only ones flooding the format with a vast amount of titles. They make some money now, and after Blu Ray penetration becomes big enough to where they can't resist anymore they'll make money again.

Double dipping is a pretty clever strategy. But as a consumer, I respect it about as much as I respect Total HD.

That is to say, not at all.

Screw you Ken Graffeo, stop screwing those tardy HD-DVD fanboys and unite HD media properly; you're screwing over the rest of the market you greedy chimp.
 
VanMardigan said:
I took my sister to the movies for Final Fantasy. She still hates me for it. :(

I thought the movie was decent. I never bothered with the dvd, though.

On another note, Universal is on fire!!! Damn, they are really firing on all cylinders now. They just announced 4 more catalog titles for August: Erin Brockovich, Meet the Fockers, Mercury Rising, and What Dreams May Come.

HD DVD is certainly Uni-land
. :lol

yeah its pretty funny...even my wife gets a laugh when pretty much every HDDVD we watch starts out with the Universal logo

we hum the theme together and everything :lol
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Crayon Shinchan said:
Screw you Ken Graffeo, stop screwing those tardy HD-DVD fanboys and unite HD media properly; you're screwing over the rest of the market you greedy chimp.

How is that not ban worthy?
 

Crayon Shinchan

Aquafina Fanboy
StoOgE said:
How is that not ban worthy?

Because HD-DVD fans refuse to let the format go away quickly, even though ultimately, it will have to go! And when it does, they'll be the ones that suffer that fact?

Well... at least those flipper discs will help soothe the pain some what.
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
yep, we got another one. Every time we've made progress in this thread..................... *shakes head*

edit:

Toshiba Reports Strong Sales For HD DVD Player Promo

A week into Toshiba's month-long HD DVD player rebate offer, the manufacturer is reporting a five- to ten-fold increase in sales at some retail outlets.

As we recently reported, Toshiba is offering a $100 rebate on their HD-A2 model player through June 12, dropping the entry-level price for an HD DVD player to an all-time low of $299. Amazon.com has added its own discount to the mix, offering the player at the bottom-line price of $238. As a result, the player jumped to the top of Amazon's best-selling DVD players list over the weekend, where it still remains today, even though Amazon itself is now out of stock, and is offering the player through its Crutchfield (at $299).

In an interview with Video Business, Jodi Sally, VP of marketing for Toshiba said "We’re thrilled to see that consumers are, by far, choosing Toshiba’s HD DVD players as their source for high-definition."

The second phase of Toshiba's HD DVD player promo runs June 10-16th, when the $100 rebate will be extended to all Toshiba HD DVD players.

from highdefdigest.com
 

Oni Jazar

Member
Hats off to Universal and Toshiba for putting up such a strong fight.

They've played the perfect pawns for Microsoft to muddy the format war enough for digital distribution to take over.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Toshiba isnt dumb..

Matrix + 240 dollar standalone player with 5 free movies = big sales.

If I didnt allready have two HDDVD player I would be all over that (though I think its only a 720p player)
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
StoOgE said:
Toshiba isnt dumb..

Matrix + 240 dollar standalone player with 5 free movies = big sales.

If I didnt allready have two HDDVD player I would be all over that (though I think its only a 720p player)

It's the A2 which is 1080i

The AX2 is the 1080p one.
 

wasting

Banned
teiresias said:
I'd rather be waiting on Universal support than waiting on Disney support right about now.

Okay :lol :lol


May 29, 2007
Dragonheart (Universal)
The Frighteners: Director's Cut (Universal)
Lost in Translation (Universal)
Midnight Run (Universal)
The River (Universal)

June 05, 2007
Breach (Universal)

June 12, 2007
Born on the Fourth of July (Universal)
Bruce Almighty (Universal)
Daylight (Universal)
Liar Liar (Universal)
Monty Python's The Meaning of Life (Universal)
Sneakers (Universal)

June 26, 2007
American Me (Universal)
Army of Darkness (Re-issue) (Universal)
Being John Malkovich (Universal)
The Big Lebowski (Universal)
Bulletproof (Universal)
Dead Silence (Universal)
Mallrats (Universal)
Meet Joe Black (Universal)
Mystery Men (Universal)
Unleashed (Re-issue) (Universal)
The Watcher (Universal)

July 03, 2007

July 10, 2007
Billy Madison (Universal)
Dante's Peak (Universal)
The War (Universal)
The Wedding Date (Universal)

July 24, 2007
The Bourne Identity (Universal)
Hot Fuzz (Universal)
In Good Company (Universal)
The Nutty Professor 2: The Klumps (Universal)
Scent of a Woman (Universal)
Streets of Fire (Universal)

July 31, 2007
Darkman (Universal)
Sea of Love (Universal)
Shaun of the Dead (Universal)

August 07, 2007

August 14, 2007
Erin Brockovich (Universal)
Meet the Fockers (Universal)
Mercury Rising (Universal)
What Dreams May Come (Universal)

August 15, 2007

August 28, 2007
Heroes: Season One (Universal)

September 04, 2007

September 18, 2007
Elizabeth (Universal)

42


-----------------------------------------------------------
May 29, 2007

June 05, 2007

June 12, 2007
Primeval (Buena Vista)

June 19, 2007
Bridge to Terebithia (Buena Vista)

June 26, 2007

July 03, 2007

July 10, 2007

July 17, 2007

July 24, 2007

July 31, 2007
IMAX: Roving Mars (Disney)

August 07, 2007

August 14, 2007
The Lookout (Disney)
Wild Hogs (Buena Vista)

August 15, 2007

August 28, 2007

September 04, 2007

September 18, 2007

November 20, 2007
Badder Santa: The Unrated Version (Disney)
The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause (Buena Vista)

7


i'll wait and actually "watch" the movies
 

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
As much as I love Disney, it's Universal that's delivering the goods this year. And as cheap as the HD DVD players are going to be getting this year (and already are), there's no excuse to miss out on the HD DVD lineup. Fanboys are excused, of course.

If you have a 360, you have a sub $200 option. And if you don't (or are an audiophile), the options are dropping in price at alarming rates.
 
wasting said:
Okay :lol :lol


i'll wait and actually "watch" the movies

what are you laughing at? From the movies you listed the only ones I'm remotely interested in are Hot Fuzz, Shaun of the Dead, Heroes and Scent of a Woman. Check the list yourself. Just because it's a big list doesn't mean it's a good one.
 

wasting

Banned
fortified_concept said:
what are you laughing at? From the movies you listed the only ones I'm remotely interested in are Hot Fuzz, Shaun of the Dead, Heroes and Scent of a Woman. Check the list yourself. Just because it's a big list doesn't mean it's a good one.

Yeah, sorry, Disneys "small list" has alot better choices.
:lol
 

Mrbob

Member
So when is the X360 stand alone HD DVD drive going to be discontinued? You can get a standalone player for 40 bucks more than the add on drive.

Drop that add on player price in half to 99 bucks and I'll go buy one tommorrow.
 
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