How would you design a Sonic game NeoGaf?

Birdo said:
Turn based RPG.

I'm not joking. I think there are enough characters and lore to have a Sonic RPG.
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This exists. It was developed by Bioware.

JRitGAx.jpg
 
i wouldn't make one. i don't think sonic has any place in todays gaming world. it's a stupid blue hedgehog with shoes. i'm being serious. i tried thinking of a way to make a good sonic game but at the end of the day it still has to be a game about a bloody blue hedgehog with shoes and that's just silly no matter how you try to spin it.

not hating on sonic. i loved playing the games as a kid and some of the earliest memories of video games i have were playing sonic but i think sonic needs to be killed off. if sonic is to stick around then just keep making 2d side scrollers cause that's sonic at his best. all the other games trying to live up to the early games just fall short and it's quite sad.
 
modern-leper said:
i wouldn't make one. i don't think sonic has any place in todays gaming world. it's a stupid blue hedgehog with shoes. i'm being serious. i tried thinking of a way to make a good sonic game but at the end of the day it still has to be a game about a bloody blue hedgehog with shoes and that's just silly no matter how you try to spin it.

not hating on sonic. i loved playing the games as a kid and some of the earliest memories of video games i have were playing sonic but i think sonic needs to be killed off. if sonic is to stick around then just keep making 2d side scrollers cause that's sonic at his best. all the other games trying to live up to the early games just fall short and it's quite sad.
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Come on, if an obese castrato plumber traipsing around a mushroom orchard in overalls and white servant gloves can still be one of gaming's biggest IPs, surely there is room for Sonic too.
 
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Secret Rings is basically what I wanted out of a Sonic title gameplay-wise. I loved tweaking loadouts to get faster times. It's just a shame they botched the follow-up so badly.
 
If 3D i would use Sonic Colors as a base.

Unleashed/generations are too fast, both feel more a racing game than a platformer game.

Sonic Colors has the perfect balance between speed and good platforming. The stages has great art style.

I mean you can go fast in Sonic Colors, but the priority is the platforming.

Story wise, all sonic have bad story telling (the same as mario) so it doesnt matter. I dont know if now Shadow is a good guy in the lore, but i would start the game with a (fair play) sparring between Sonic and Shadow, as a gameplay tutorial.

Make something like Capcom made with dmc 4 dante vs nero tutorial, something like that but with Sonic and Shadow. with great cutscenes here and there.
You can combine some fights and running sections in that part.
 
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modern-leper said:
all the other games trying to live up to the early games just fall short and it's quite sad.
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I think that about Mario.

Aside mario 1,3 and mario 64 (because of the revolution it was) later games are toooooo easy or without the spark of those three i mentioned.

But everyone has a different opinion
 
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remove anything interesting to look at or explore whatsoever and completely kill all difficulty to the point that even baby would be insulted by baby's first videogame. If it could also run and look like ass that would also help. It's what lamefreak did with pokeshit sword and it sold millions.
 
I know there's a saturation of the genre but wouldn't a lush metroidvania-Ori-approach on a 2D plane work for Sonic?
 
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If you want a make a good Sonic game you have axe the speed thing. This aspect left Sonic morphologically damned from the start compared with Mario who on the other hand can wear many hats with his more controllable pace. So I would look at games like Ratchet and Clank, Sly Cooper, A Hat in Time for inspiration.
 
sonic invades the dc universe, kills barry allen and fucks up the timeline so bad it removes him and mario from the collective minds of people. he then needs to go back and un-kill barry allen just to be faced the alternative timeline that ...
 
The pillar of Sonic is in its level design. Speed is just something extra to come with but its not 100% mandatory during the progress of the level because its a god damn plataform game.

No wonder the old titles are aways the top ones. There are speed sections but its doesn't mean you can't stop and explore for goodies. Take Hydro city speed sections, go with the flow or stop and explore, its your call.

Also I think Sonic fairs much better on 2D, but wheter is pixel or not is actually not a must. I could see a Sonic game at some insane level of visuals like Dragons Crown. But the thing they must nail first is the physics. Without it, Sonic games are nothing.
 
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If it's 2D:
  • Classic Universe and Designs, plot would be about Robotnik being Missing after the events of Mania Plus and you would fight the Hard Boiled Heavies and Metal Sonic instead, besides that the plot would adapt those Classic Sonic Comics written by Tyson Hesse for Archie. with Sonic collecting Ancient Gears instead of Emeralds
  • it would be a mix between Mania, Advance 2, Knuckles' Chaotix and a foreground-background switching mechanic, the overall aesthetic would be 2.5D like the Classic stages from Generations and Forces
  • Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Mighty and Ray playable, you only start with the main duo but unlock more as you play. eaxch have their moves from the classic and advance games and Mania.
  • Amy however woudn't be able to speed up instantly, instead he can twirl with her hammer, working exactly like the roll from the Donkey Kong Country Games, mid-air jumps and everything.
  • full fledged Co-Op with controls, you can grab and throw other players arround, it would be splitscreen, there's also Time Trials and 2P Races
  • Encore Mode like in Mania Plus, but you unlock it after getting the good ending,
  • Chao Garden, wich is able to be connected to other Sonic games or even other SEGA games aswell as a Mobile App, would be fully 3D, and the style would be a lot more Modern compared to the rest of the game.
  • Tricks would be a major part of gameplay, like in SA2, Advance 2, and the Rush games, there would also be Rails like in the newer games.
  • Fully Animated Cutscenes, akin to the Megaman PS1 Games, oozing with that classic 90's anime style and writting, and even animate them by an actual Anime studio like TMS, MadHouse, or even Trigger just with actually good voice acting, bring back Martin Burke as Sonic, and use some of the newer cast for Tails, Amy and Robotnik, and new actors entirely for Knuckles, Mighty and Ray
  • and Finally a good old rock-pop Soundtrack by Jun Senoue and Tee Lopes, imitating the style of Michael Jackson and his associates in Sonic 3 & Knuckles.
if it's 3D:
  • Takes place in the Modern universe with Modern characters and designs, would be more graphically impressive
  • Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Cream, Shadow, Rouge, Omega, and a new character would be playable there would be overall 4 gameplay styles occupied by Traditional (Sonic, Shadow, New Character), Shooting (Tails, Cream), Treasure Hunting (Knuckles, Rouge) and Brawling (Amy, Omega), characters would be chosen by Teams, Team Sonic, Team Rose or Team Dark representing the Hero, Neutral and Dark alignments.
  • as usual, beating all stories grants you the Final Story, a final stage and a final boss, and the credits.
  • Treasure Hunting stages would have the SA1 radar, Shooting characters would play less like the mechs and more like Gamma in SA1, but a little faster, Brawling stages would be a lot like the Werehog in Unleashed, Shooting and Brawling stages would be jduged by Combos while Traditional and Treasure Hunting Stages would be judged by performing Tricks.
  • there would be Adventure Fields like in SA1, 06 or Unleahsed, you can also find upgrades and do optional side missions.
  • The Plot would have a darker tone akin to SA2, but actually executed well unlike Forces, and no cutscenes are unskippable because fuck you guys.
  • would also have a Chao Garden that can also connect to the other games
  • Tricks as "Traditional" Characters like Sonic or Shadow would also be important for scoring good points, Shooting characters would be judged by combos
  • Current Voice actors, i would love to have the Adventure or 4Kids cast back but it sadly isn't possible.
  • another rucking pop-rock soundtrack by Jun Senoue and Tee Lopes, this time with vocal themes performed by Various artists, more importantly Crush 40.
 
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Birdo said:
Turn based RPG.

I'm not joking. I think there are enough characters and lore to have a Sonic RPG.
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Swear I came to suggest this too. Glad I'm not alone.

I'd try a turn-based RPG for a change and see how it goes. I think it'd do great.

Or an open world, a very big one with vast plains so Sonic can comfortable roam with high speed.
 
Super Sonic Odyssey- you travel in giant shoe, and you toss shoes at enemies that you then take on their unique abilities. You also visit classic Sonic stages and switch between 2d and 3D. In each stage you collect quills that you can use to unlock outfits.
 
Purely 3D levels, "sonic generations" style roller coaster levels. No customization, a few staple characters sonic, knuckles, tails, amy, and nothing too crazy. An overworld map like super mario world. Characters must have similar gameplay to sonic, thats it perfect sonic game.

Oh and high production value not unlike the newest ratchet and clank or crash game.
 
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Controls sort of like the running on the beach style feel of sonic adventure But with a bit more solidity and precision to the controls. The physics engine almost completely the same as tony hawk skating with more momentum based speed and no top speed to sonic' s movement, restrict his speed with smart level design and have secrets only reachable to good players. Controls should feel almost like playing as Mario but with no top running speed. Let sonic run if he hits a wall obliquely make him bounce off and lose some momentum to slow the player down. If he hits a wall straight on its dead stop but have the ability to time a button press which will make sonic jump off the wall back the other way and maintain most of his momentum (not all but most).

Level design like the thps 2 long corridor type levels interperesed with open areas with lots of different paths and places to go and places that are difficult to reach without skilful use of momentum and physics to reach them. Less thin corridors like the sonic adventure games which puts you on rails, those are boring.

Sonic needs to be able to run on walls if the momentum is there however he will slowly curve down over time if the wall doesn't flatten out, thus physics.

Level design is absolutely key. A lot more focus on platforming and less focus on just going fast fast fast all the time. The speed should be a consequence of skilful play not the absolute emphasis for the entire level designs and game.

I'm going to say this and no one will agree with me but the sonic games need to slow down in order to go faster. They need to make the general slow speed controls precise and fun to use In the way it's fun to just run around as Mario, the key factor is then that Sonic CAN get really fast if you're good enough and can maintain momentum.

Physics physics physics it's all about the physics. Stop putting us on rails. Open the field a bit. Change things up completely.
 
I wouldn't make one because it isn't possible to make a good Sonic game. The 2D games require stage memorization to ever stay up to speed and the 3D games amount to what is essentially a bunch of quicktime events or digital Whack-a-Mole. Neither of which is actually fun but the folks from the 90s that have fond memories of Sonic can't see past any of this. They don't remeber having to play the game over and over before you could "gotta go fast" as they say.

There is a reason why a Mario games still sells millions and Sonic sees one critical and commercial flop after another. Mario is actually fun to play.

It's a shame because Sonic's character and world designs are good, great in some aspects. The base premise of Sonic's gameplay is cool in theory, sadly it just isn't good in practice.

Insert your butt hurt LOL icons below.
 
Exclusive Sonic open world game on PS5, only PS5 SSD able to catch up with DAT SPEED.
Run Away GIF
 
By keeping it the fuck away from Sega/Sonic Team.
 
2D style MUCH wider field of view.

MUCH faster character running and platforming speed.

And... Fast sekiro-esk combat.

Basically the ultimate twitchfest experience.

I've think of this every now and then.

I'm just tired of the old run faster than your eyes can see and jump formula.
 
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SinDelta said:
I would place an emphasis on speed, level design and good controls. ...
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There always has been an emphasis on speed. That's probably the Sonic franchise's defining quality. As for the other two, I think most games, including Sonic, strive for that.

For me, I think they could do well by going back and looking at the original Mirror's Edge, where the player is purposely punished by breaking the flow. They seemed to have lost that along the way, especially as it pertains to their attempts at 3D Sonic games.
 
I don't think you can have an emphasis on speed AND exploration. It's one or the other.

To be honest, speed in a platforming game kinda sucks. It's the main issue with the character and has been since sonic one in my option.

"This level looks fun but I'm past that bit now, and that bit and ... Oh it's the end of the level and all I did was spam jump."
 
A perfect Sonic would be something like a fast and more accessible Mirror's Edge without those complex controls but not with the autopilot like the usual 3D Sonic in the past 15 years.
I need speed but not a Sonic that controls itself.
 


I'd take the Sonic Team approach to development, ignore anything that worked elsewhere the double down on all the shit people hate.
 
If going for quality: 2D, 4k @ 120hz

If going for mass appeal: 74 friends, literally no Sonic at all, and a camera that's aimed at the ground the entire time.
 
I would try to make a very accomplished Sonic Adventure style game. The characters would have essentially the same base running speed with some different movement mechanics attached to make the levels play differently for each. The story would centre around Sonic and his buddies saving animal villages from Eggman, with an explanation of each of his attack plans carried out in cutscene and how the player can best foil those plans. My hope with doing that would be to show up SEGA so much that I just take over 3D Sonic. The biggest strategic point for ensuring I do it better than SEGA is making all the characters play relatively similarly.
 
I would love an action adventure title with the darker narrative of SatAM, with all those characters.

Realistically I'd probably swing for a Mania 2.
 
I would make a Sonic Nightmare, where you play as the Hedgehog in a sleep paralysis situation.

Sonic would be slow, constantly fighting quicksand mechanics. The stages would all be blacked out and oozing with monster faces, lots of teeth, loud distorted music.

The next stages would be Sonic waking up to find that he was captured, half dissected alive, and turned into a Robot that needs to kill Tails and all his friends against his will. After killing them all, he figures out how to kill Robotnik, and how to commit robot suicide.

The final stage and boss will be dead Sonic, in hell, running and never catching up with an invincible Satan. The game will become about high scores while fighting the devil for hours or days, until you lose and get a game over. If you game over with a high enough score, you get an ending... a small scene of Shadow waking up in bed and saying "Ow the Edge."

Afterwards, the game will overwrite your console's save data with inappropriate shit like "DOLLFUCKER" as the file name.


That's what I would do.
Hey, Sega. Call me. I'm not doing anything at the moment, since your new Virtua Fighter net code is pure trash.

5616.jpg
 
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Pachi72 said:
I want a Sonic game with a vast open world.
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this is close to my vision also. More density in the levels and more modern graphics and assets but yes this is very close. These large areas interspersed with more racing down hill corridors full of half pipes and momentum build zones.

but overall this looks pretty darn good.
 
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mcjmetroid said:
I don't think the emphasises should be on speed anymore. I think that's where they keep going wrong.

Mario's gameplay doesn't revolve around plumber activities as much anymore. It evolved beyond his original concept. Sonic should evolve beyond the fastest thing Alive Shtick.

Here is some challenges for the developer:

1: Limit boosting gameplay. It sucks.. plain and simple. Do these for special bonus stages or something.

2 And lose the homing attack
Give sonic a better combat system

Sonic needs to be quick yes but not have speed be the primary focus of the game.
Level design and tight controls need to be first.

I think the adventure games despite me shitting on them in the other thread got this the most correct. Not perfect, it still has that silly homing attack but close.
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Have you ever considered Sonics games including the stage design only differentiate because of speed?

With out it you get Games like Sonic Boom. If you mix then you get Bubsy 2 or Rocket Knight. Both terrible.
 
MvCSpiderman said:
Have you ever considered Sonics games including the stage design only differentiate because of speed?

With out it you get Games like Sonic Boom. If you mix then you get Bubsy 2 or Rocket Knight. Both terrible.
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Rocket Knight wasn't that bad, it felt more like an Arcade Beat Em' Up mixed with the Jet and Sword abilities from Kirby.
 
As a vector graphic, into the screen dash game where you chose left middle right jump.

This must be on a 3d tomy tronic, be in sega blue and have bleep blop sounds aswell as a 8bit rendition of green hill zone.
 
MvCSpiderman said:
Have you ever considered Sonics games including the stage design only differentiate because of speed?

With out it you get Games like Sonic Boom. If you mix then you get Bubsy 2 or Rocket Knight. Both terrible.
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Ya well people with more imagination can come up with better ideas and certainly better games than Sonic Boom.

They've worn out the speed/boost concept.
 
mcjmetroid said:
Ya well people with more imagination can come up with better ideas and certainly better games than Sonic Boom.

They've worn out the speed/boost concept.
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Have they? It's literally unique in the genre for the type of games it makes. Even the bad Sonics play differently and have different stage designs retaining the speed factor. Without it there's literally nothing differentiating Sonic from generic platformer 654785. I mean you can't really decouple speed from Sonic and it still retains Sonics unique gameplay traits the series is known for.

The only solution is to find an evolution that works and improve it over time.
 
MvCSpiderman said:
Have they? It's literally unique in the genre for the type of games it makes. Even the bad Sonics play differently and have different stage designs retaining the speed factor. Without it there's literally nothing differentiating Sonic from generic platformer 654785. I mean you can't really decouple speed from Sonic and it still retains Sonics unique gameplay traits the series is known for.

The only solution is to find an evolution that works and improve it over time.
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You're only saying that because you haven't really seen Sonic Team try anything else in a long time.

Mario games since becoming 3D have ditched almost everything that made mario a game in 2D. They had to.

I'm not going to design a sonic game for them. The focus cannot be on speed though.

Also boosting is not really even unique really. When Sonic goes full boost gameplay .. It becomes like an FZero/Fast RMX style racing game with even less control over your character than those games. Is it unique for a platformer? Sure.. but it's also his like 10th or more game using this concept and well it's been done.. Sonic forces looked like it was creatively bankrupt.

This style of gameplay will hold sonic games back if you ever want to see him reach Mario's level again.

I mean even Sonic Team knows the gameplay is a problem because they always have to shove something else into their games to be break up the monotony of the boosting gameplay sections.

I think if theyre stuck they should at least look at Sonic adventure and look at what worked and expand on this. This was the closest they got to getting it right.
I'm thinking large levels with plenty of exploring. Not glorified racing tracks.
 
mcjmetroid said:
Mario games since becoming 3D have ditched almost everything that made mario a game in 2D.
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Sonic did the same thing, arguably more so. Are you serious?

mcjmetroid said:
Also boosting is not really even unique really. When Sonic goes full boost gameplay .. It becomes like an FZero/Fast RMX style racing game with even less control over your character than those games. Is it unique for a platformer? Sure.. but it's also his like 10th or more game using this concept and well it's been done.. Sonic forces looked like it was creatively bankrupt.
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4 games out of 11 3D sonic games used the boost. 4 out of 13 if you include the storybook games. I feel like you're just repeating common myths. You are making yourself believe 3D Sonic has been boosting in it's entirely from the looks of it.
 
mcjmetroid said:
I don't think the emphasises should be on speed anymore. I think that's where they keep going wrong.

Mario's gameplay doesn't revolve around plumber activities as much anymore. It evolved beyond his original concept. Sonic should evolve beyond the fastest thing Alive Shtick.

Here is some challenges for the developer:

1: Limit boosting gameplay. It sucks.. plain and simple. Do these for special bonus stages or something.

2 And lose the homing attack
Give sonic a better combat system

Sonic needs to be quick yes but not have speed be the primary focus of the game.
Level design and tight controls need to be first.

I think the adventure games despite me shitting on them in the other thread got this the most correct. Not perfect, it still has that silly homing attack but close.
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Been saying this for years, Sonic needs to slow the fuck down. It's a huge limiter on the game design, He's too unwieldy for platforming gameplay. There are ways to make him appear as though he's moving fast without making him uncontrollable. The game literally takes control out of the players hands much too often.

And no Humans.
 
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