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[Suzushiiro]

I think it's fair to say that a big reason why Metriod Prime looked so good and ran at a steady 60fps was that the game/level design was made to keep the amount of shit it had to render at once to a minimum. That doesn't mean it "doesn't count," but I don't think it's fair to compare it graphically against a game with a design that doesn't lend itself to the "tricks" MP could get away with doing, such as GTA.

And I'm pretty sure the reason why 60fps was so common in 6th-gen games compared to 7th/8th is that the games never had to worry about rendering at a resolution higher than 480p due to HDTVs not really being a thing back then. This meant both that trading framerate for resolution wasn't on the table and that there was diminishing returns to trading it for texture quality/polycount/etc. since at such a low resolution you wouldn't always notice the increased detail. Once the resolution cap went up, you could gain a lot more for going from 60 to 30fps.

 

[Dehnus]

I mean wow, im assuming prime 2 and 3 were also atleast targetting 60 fps.
How can such a graphically intensive game(for the gamecube) have such a framerate, especially prime 2. Thats like if the last of us managed to pull off 60 fps on PS3 or halo 4 for that matter.

Because Nintendo knows how to get shit done?

 

[Sothpaw]

60 fps is the first thing a dev should do and sacrifice graphics from there. Basically, the complete opposite of TLOU. Metroid Prime absolutely looks better than some ps360 games as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Suzushiiro]

Also, the game takes forever to load room to room.

It occasionally took a while to load the next room (usually for bigger ones,) but 95% of the time doors opened quickly enough.

 

[Branduil]

Metroid Prime was impressive, but significantly less graphically impressive than 30fps games like Halo CE, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, or Riddick.

The superior art direction more than makes up for the lack of normal mapping.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

It'd be an exaggeration to say that rooms take forever to load, but there are frequent instances of doors not opening right after you shot them that seem to be related to loading times.

F-Zero X was a very glaring exception to the rule, though. Nintendo's games generally had stable framerates, but they weren't very high. And even then, Nintendo still had some really uneven games when it came to framerates for the Gamecube, particularly Super Mario Sunshine.

Yeah, wasn't OoT something like 15-17fps with the occasional drop?

 

[Refreshment.01]

Would have prefered 30 with better lighting since the atmosphere would be enhanced that way. The game is not twitchy anyways.

 

[BigTnaples]

The superior art direction more than makes up for the lack of normal mapping.

That's not what this thread is about, nor is it factually superior.

 

[MisterHero]

That's not what this thread is about, nor is it factually superior.

You're right, but this thread is about Metroid Prime's framerate. I don't know why you're comparing Metroid Prime 1 to Splinter Cell 3 though.

lol Halo 1

 

[Ridley327]

It'd be an exaggeration to say that rooms take forever to load, but there are frequent instances of doors not opening right after you shot them that seem to be related to loading times.



Yeah, wasn't OoT something like 15-17fps with the occasional drop?

The game had a hard cap of 20 fps.

 

[Lathentar]

That's not what this thread is about, nor is it factually superior.

Well, the thread is kinda about that. High quality art design and talent combined with high quality tech.

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

As someone who has never played the Prime series and isn't a fan of waggle controls; am I better off with GC versions or should I still spring for the Wii trilogy?

 

[Ridley327]

As someone who has never played the Prime series and isn't a fan of waggle controls; am I better off with GC versions or should I still spring for the Wii trilogy?

Depends on what you consider to be waggle, really. The Trilogy version uses the Wiimote primarily as a pointer, though there are certainly waggle elements in Prime 3, so it's mainly just having a much more accurate shooting experience. That being said, the first two games don't really need it since they're designed around lock-on and there's really no weaknesses to exploit by aiming elsewhere, which is one of the big things they added to Prime 3. The one big advantage that the Trilogy has over the originals is the proper widescreen modes for the first two games, which is also something to consider.

 

[fredrancour]

As someone who has never played the Prime series and isn't a fan of waggle controls; am I better off with GC versions or should I still spring for the Wii trilogy?

Does waggle mean "any form of motion control" to you, or just "random shaking?" Cause IR pointer aiming with the wiimote is pretty amazing and not just mindless spasming.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

As someone who has never played the Prime series and isn't a fan of waggle controls; am I better off with GC versions or should I still spring for the Wii trilogy?

I prefer the GC versions. The games were designed around those control schemes, and being able to use the pointer on the Wiimote kinda throws off the balance. The games are also missing some visual effects in the Trilogy version, and they dumbed down the difficulty of MP2.

 

[Reluctant-Hero]

Depends on what you consider to be waggle, really. The Trilogy version uses the Wiimote primarily as a pointer, though there are certainly waggle elements in Prime 3, so it's mainly just having a much more accurate shooting experience. That being said, the first two games don't really need it since they're designed around lock-on and there's really no weaknesses to exploit by aiming elsewhere, which is one of the big things they added to Prime 3. The one big advantage that the Trilogy has over the originals is the proper widescreen modes for the first two games, which is also something to consider.

Does waggle mean "any form of motion control" to you, or just "random shaking?" Cause IR pointer aiming with the wiimote is pretty amazing and not just mindless spasming.

For me "waggle" is definitely mindless, random, shaking. I basically skipped the entire Wii generation of Nintendo games due to hating how Twilight Princess played on launch day in 2006.

Beside widescreen, do Prime 1 &2 have any other graphical improvements over GC?

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

The entire game is basically all in small corridors & rooms.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

60FPS really impressed me coming from that little cube that was sitting on the floor way back when the game came out. It took some shortcuts to get there but the art style and places where they did apply fancier effects made it hard to really notice.

 

[Neo Child]

That F-Zero GX clip just reminds me of how crazy the transition from one gen:

to another was:

f-zero gx came out over a decade ago too. get the same developers on the wii u pls.

 

[Ridley327]

That F-Zero GX clip just reminds me of how crazy the transition from one gen:

to another was:

f-zero gx came out over a decade ago too. get the same developers on the wii u pls.

Amusement Vision isn't ever getting back together again. Nagoshi is too entrenched with Yakuza for anything comparable to pop back up.

 

[Persona7]

Leave it to Nintendo to get the best out of their own machine.

F-Zero GX is also very impressive on GC and had a butter smooth 60fps framerate

Do you mean leave it to Sega to get the best out of a Nintendo machine?

 

[Novocaine]

that was a very good game.

Was?

Still is.

As someone who has never played the Prime series and isn't a fan of waggle controls; am I better off with GC versions or should I still spring for the Wii trilogy?

I much rather the Gamecube controls myself. I hate waggle a ton. The GC controls are kind of clunky, at least at first. But I think it positively adds to the tension of the game, kind of like pre 4 Resident Evil.

 

[sonikokaruto]

i'd love me some fzero gx 3d or some fzero gx hd ...


NINTENDO, DO THIS AND I WILL BUY ANOTHER WIIU ... and a couple more 3ds's

Spoiler

I'm a consumer whore :'(

 

[TVC 15]

Some of the shit Japanese devs where doing was wizard. I think secretly, its bullshit that the west has better devs, F-Zero GX is firstborn pact with the devil magic.

Nagoshi please

 

[Gold_Loot]

The game used smaller spaces and also used very very little real time lighting....

Games on the Dreamcast used the same effect, such as, the House of the Dead games, Crazy Taxi, Dynamite Cop and so on.

 

[jaypah]

Some of the shit Japanese devs where doing was wizard. I think secretly, its bullshit that the west has better devs, F-Zero GX is firstborn pact with the devil magic.

Nagoshi please

Video games are a "what have you done for me lately" type of thing. Western devs have been doing some nice shit technically but I do feel that some Japanese devs have achieved great things and get overlooked because of the whole "lol Japanese devs fell off, hold that L" thing.

 

[Nocturno999]

Game Cube was a beast.

 

[HoodWinked]

fzero gx was a game that was two generations ahead of its time. amusement vision plucked this game out of the future and bestowed the world a great gift and the world ignored it except for the select chosen few which recognized its greatness immediately.

the gamecube imo had the most capable graphics chip during that era. based ATi.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

One of my favourite things is jumping out of water and seeing it sluice off Samus's helmet. Also, blasting something at short range with a charged shot and seeing the reflection of her face. The details are amazing in a game over 10 years old.

 

[cascardian]

No it didn't. Not even a little actually.

It's not always bad, yes, but there is actually one door transition in particular that is extremely bad. AGDQ had a developer on Skype during Miles' run of it and he explains it all (sorry for not picking out the timestamp of the door in question!). I encourage everyone interested in some design talk to also give it a listen. I'm loving the little tidbits of knowledge he drops about the development process here and there.

 

[grimlock442]

Metroid Prime was amazing. Very atmospheric and matched with superb gameplay.

It's truly a pity Nintendo appears to be lost at sea right now. If they had released a ps4 class machine with a normal controller as default (that dual sticks one) and full 3rd party support, I'd be knee deep in their new system.

Instead, the Wii U they made is something I'll pick up at the firesale, as a novelty.

But yeah, loved the Gamecube, probably loved it most out of xbox, ps2, and itself. And Metroid Prime is on my top 3 list for that gen.

 

[jaypah]

Game Cube was a beast.

That it was. Mine was the only one that I personally knew of that bit the dust and I fully put that on some sort of power surge or something because it ran without a hitch until it just lost power one day.

 

[DrDrizzay101]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCPikWlGU5g

I thought it was interesting that Greg Kasavin mentioned in his GameSpot review from its original release that there were "no loading screens." I don't know if he didn't realize what the elevator transitions were for or just didn't consider it a loading screen, but Prime was definitely a technological marvel and still is impressive today.

 

[The Xtortionist]

Leave it to Nintendo to get the best out of their own machine.

F-Zero GX is also very impressive on GC and had a butter smooth 60fps framerate

Quoting this...just because. You know my thoughts.

And yes, Gamecube was a beast. But Retro should also be commended for their unwavering commitment to 60fps.

 

[Madao]

That F-Zero GX clip just reminds me of how crazy the transition from one gen:

to another was:

f-zero gx came out over a decade ago too. get the same developers on the wii u pls.

the FZX gif doesn't make it justice since it can look as smooth as GX.

 

[OmegaSmash]

The comic book thing was in the SNES game. The thing it emphasized in X was the feeling that F-Zero was a dangerous underground sport.

God I just love that art style. Hardcore, over the top face melting metal! I think I even own the F-Zero X Guitar Arrange somewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH3kSXYV8wE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8Suw71kA-8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40xP9cTq9EY

If Nintendo ever decided to revisit X (which, in my opinion, is the best way to bring back the franchise), they cannot mess with the presentation. For me, it's what make X really stand out among Nintendo games, and a good way to make it seem unique to a new audience.

 

[Naked Snake]

Progressive scan!

I remember MP was the first time I stated really reading about the virtues of progressive scan, and it was also the first console game I experienced in 480p

It was like a mythical creature you needed all the planets to align (display, cables, and settings) to witness.

 

[cafemomo]

The GameCube was the last time Nintendo put some thought into their home console.

That console was absolute top notch

 

[EatinOlives]

Why do people keep bringing up the "room loading" thing to minimize the fact that the MP series runs at 60 FPS?

The game was still very graphically advanced for its time, and yes it happened to be highly optimized to sustain a consistent 60 FPS. That's actually a good thing. They easily could've tanked the framerate to 30 and make each individual room extra pretty, but that's not what happened. They still managed to maintain high graphical fidelity for its time and optimized smartly to get good performance. Every game does this on some level or another. MP loaded one room at a time. All FPSs draw only what the player sees. Things behind large objects or walls, or out of the peripheral vision of the character aren't rendered. Are we too going to dismiss any good performance out of all of these titles?

 

[KennyLinder]

There was an interview at the time of release and they said they had to decide over 60fps or bump mapping but decided upon the higher framerate for gameplay reasons. Might have been on IGN.

 

[Gambit61]

Leave it to Nintendo to get the best out of their own machine.

F-Zero GX is also very impressive on GC and had a butter smooth 60fps framerate

Can't wait to upgrade to Devil's Canyon for some 4K DS 60fps GX

 

[TVC 15]

Video games are a "what have you done for me lately" type of thing. Western devs have been doing some nice shit technically but I do feel that some Japanese devs have achieved great things and get overlooked because of the whole "lol Japanese devs fell off, hold that L" thing.

I think a lot of devs are in the lap of middleware companies with ballooning software development costs. A lot of Japanese devs fell in to the trap of bespoke engines for each game. Western devs have been incredibly effective at capitalizing from the PC revolution in the 90's, Japan's whole unique OS/Software ecosystem died off with Windows 95/98 introducing 'good-enough' software with kanji support and a market flooded with cheap IBM compatible PC clones. Japan never had its Silicon Valley.

People give props to Carmack et al in the 90's but what about dudes like Yu Suzuki and his team at AM2, they used to test all that unique 3D hardware from Lockheed Martin and have to write there own compilers and debuggers for the exotic DSP's and CPU's used back then, shit, Yu Suzuki's team wrote the improved 3D graphics library for the Sega Saturn after dev's complained how it sucked developing for the Saturn in it early days. Japan doesn't get nearly enough props, even though I've singled out Sega. Such a shame there is a knowledge gap growing in Japan, most game programming seems targeted at cute smart phone apps rather than trailblazing high end graphics like back in the 90's.

Rant over...

 

[ThatRandomCliff]

I loved MP 1 and 2. The hidden loading times were amazing, except for one room in MP1. It was the hall way that lead to the room where you would (eventually) fight Ridely. I remember that door taking 24 seconds to load (open) once.

 

[Phediuk]

Why do people keep bringing up the "room loading" thing to minimize the fact that the MP series runs at 60 FPS?

The game was still very graphically advanced for its time, and yes it happened to be highly optimized to sustain a consistent 60 FPS. That's actually a good thing. They easily could've tanked the framerate to 30 and make each individual room extra pretty, but that's not what happened. They still managed to maintain high graphical fidelity for its time and optimized smartly to get good performance. Every game does this on some level or another. MP loaded one room at a time. All FPSs draw only what the player sees. Things behind large objects or walls, or out of the peripheral vision of the character aren't rendered. Are we too going to dismiss any good performance out of all of these titles?

It's not a dismissal, it's an explanation for how they got it to 60fps. You want higher performance, then something's gotta give, and Retro got it by shrinking down room size and onscreen objects to the bare minimum. Doesn't make it any worse necessarily. It worked fine for the kind of game they made.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Metroid Prime was impressive, but significantly less graphically impressive than 30fps games like Halo CE, Splinter Cell Chaos Theory, or Riddick.

Unless perhaps you are a person who considers frame rate an important part of graphics.

 

[Leatherface]

This thread has really brought home something for me. I would cut off a pinky for a new retro made Metroid and at the very least, a remake of Fzero GX. Want Ssssssooooo bad!!

 

[Treechopper]

Woah, I had no idea such a thing was possible on Dolphin. Is there a video illustrating this somewhere?

Third screen under utility. I decided to use Metroid Prime to toy around with it. Was in Magmoor Workstation and I looked behind me but there was no floor!

 

[Volotaire]

For me "waggle" is definitely mindless, random, shaking. I basically skipped the entire Wii generation of Nintendo games due to hating how Twilight Princess played on launch day in 2006.

Beside widescreen, do Prime 1 &2 have any other graphical improvements over GC?

I think Prime 2 has easier bosses (because they were apparently hard in the original). Doors open faster in Prime 1 and 2, higher texture quality, bloom lighting, reworked HUD's for the wii controls. But prime 1 does have less cannon reaction effects when fired at water.

I would recommend going back to some of these Wii Nintendo games. A large proportion used pointer controls instead of waggle, and some just used traditional controls.

 

[Nilaul]

Leave it to Nintendo to get the best out of their own machine.

F-Zero GX is also very impressive on GC and had a butter smooth 60fps framerate

Dammm... looks so good.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Whatever it takes to get to 60 fps is one of the traits most commonly shared among the elite developers. It's certainly served Nintendo and Retro well in the past.

GameCube was quite a beast in its time.