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I don’t like female protagonists.
- Thread starter DoubleClutch
- Start date
DoubleClutch
Gold Member
No need to wait, here are academic papers:
“Males tend to choose characters that fit traditional masculine traits, such as strength and aggression…”
Gendered design bias: Gender differences of in-game character choice and playing style in League of Legends
Though video games have become increasingly popular among female players, competitive game genres are still dominated by male players. Research has explored the factors influencing male and female participation in competitive games, but little has
www.academia.edu
Feel free to look up more yourself and/or find others showing the contrary.
It’s akin to boys like guns, girls like dolls. You don’t need to be a PhD to know this.
Homosexual men might like dressing up and playing as girls though. That’s why I said straight men.
tmlDan
Member
so every dude who played a female character in WoW is gay? damn thats like 50% of them..../sNo need to wait, here are academic papers:
“Males tend to choose characters that fit traditional masculine traits, such as strength and aggression…”
Gendered design bias: Gender differences of in-game character choice and playing style in League of Legends
Though video games have become increasingly popular among female players, competitive game genres are still dominated by male players. Research has explored the factors influencing male and female participation in competitive games, but little haswww.academia.edu
Feel free to look up more yourself and/or find others showing the contrary.
It’s akin to boys like guns, girls like dolls. You don’t need to be a PhD to know this.
Homosexual men might like dressing up and playing as girls though. That’s why I said straight men.
Goalus
Member
Ultima: The First Age of Darkness?I've never cared who I'm playing as. One of the first games I ever really gotten into, my character looked like this:
I would've quit gaming 35+ years ago if I had to relate to that.
Wait a sec, thought people didn't like playing as the stereotype strong independent lesbian woman with bad attitude who needs no man, now something like 2B, Eve, Fem-V, Jill Valentine, Claire Redfield, Ada Wong, those are fucking cool and sexy characters I don't mind playing at all...
DoubleClutch
Gold Member
Key being on average. I’m sure there are outliers but no legit dude is typically role-playing as a female.
Imagine if on Halloween a guy has the option of dressing up as Indiana Jones or Cinderella. If the guy dresses up as Cinderella it would be reasonable to think he’s a homosexual.
Humdinger
Gold Member
When given a choice, I prefer playing a male. For instance, in an RPG, that's generally what I'll go with. I think the stats show about 80% of men do that, too (maybe it's higher; I can't remember). I think that's natural. I went with FemShep back when I played the original ME, though, and really enjoyed it. After Jennifer Hale, the male voice actor just sounded flat to me.
I have enjoyed plenty of games where the protagonist is female (e.g, Horizon, Hellblade, Gravity Rush, Tomb Raider, Gris). Otoh, I've also been turned off some games because the female protagonist seems unlikeable or unrelatable. I think that is more of a recent problem and something confined to Western games (girlbosses et al).
I have enjoyed plenty of games where the protagonist is female (e.g, Horizon, Hellblade, Gravity Rush, Tomb Raider, Gris). Otoh, I've also been turned off some games because the female protagonist seems unlikeable or unrelatable. I think that is more of a recent problem and something confined to Western games (girlbosses et al).
tmlDan
Member
thats a terrible example, playing a female avatar or protagonist is not even close to dressing as one in real life, thats legitimately an insane comparison
Calico345
Gold Member
No need to wait, here are academic papers:
“Males tend to choose characters that fit traditional masculine traits, such as strength and aggression…”
Gendered design bias: Gender differences of in-game character choice and playing style in League of Legends
Though video games have become increasingly popular among female players, competitive game genres are still dominated by male players. Research has explored the factors influencing male and female participation in competitive games, but little haswww.academia.edu
Feel free to look up more yourself and/or find others showing the contrary.
It’s akin to boys like guns, girls like dolls. You don’t need to be a PhD to know this.
Homosexual men might like dressing up and playing as girls though. That’s why I said straight men.
It says it is about League of Legends, and it wants me to sign up for something.
I'm not talking about League of Legends. That is one video game. And I will not sign up for something just to read a cherrypicked article that supports your specific bias. You said "most straight men" hold this view. Find the data for "most straight men" across the entire demographics of gamers. I'll wait.
Or maybe you can just accept that you presented YOUR opinion and had you simply stopped there, your own ignorance would have been largely tolerated and ignored. You have instead chosen to speak for entire groups of people that you simply cannot establish a baseline or precedent for. Good luck with your "topic!"
ByWatterson
Member
*laughs in Aloy and Ellie*
Red Scarlet
Member
It was fewer colors in that, but Ultima 3/4 on Amiga were the first rpg's I really got into and that's about what the sprite looked like.
TheUndeadGamer
Member
I think games should have both genders and people can choose. With exceptions like in Tomb Raider 
.
.DoubleClutch
Gold Member
League of Legends is a perfect example because there is abundant choice. It still shows men play as men. If there’s anywhere you’d expect the theory to not hold true it would be here.
I’m sorry if this offends you on a personal level, but it’s reality. Not sure what you’re looking for exactly but I gave you your academic papers you asked for. Like I said, if it’s wrong, feel free to prove otherwise.
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
I don't particularly care. I can play as a female lead or a male lead as long as the game is enjoyable and I don't feel like I'm being preached to.
DoubleClutch
Gold Member
Dressing yourself up in the real world, or in game is not that much different. Why would an avatar even matter otherwise? It’s an extension of yourself.
YOU PC BRO?!
Gold Member
I’m largely with you OP…
Considering the addressable market for all of these games is majority male. It doesn’t make sense in alienating the largest contingent of your audience. It’s funny, the developers are clearly aware of that fact. It’s why there are typically no real love interests in games that feature a female protagonist. Men would find it weird to get hit on by a guy whilst playing as a girl. That’s actually gay as fuck!
Another problem I have with the portrayal of women in gaming is the masculinisation. The women we see talk, act and behave just like men. They have no sensuality, sexuality or femininity. They rarely display empathy, compassion or any of the key feminine character traits. The insinuation being, that only in the adoption of masculine character traits can a woman be considered formidable. What an absurd and offensive notion indeed. It’s irksome, any genuinely interesting possibilities that may naturally exist when playing as a female character are never present. It’s just the same macho man power fantasy you would expect with a male player character. Such a waste.
Most female protagonists are designed to be the most non sexually threatening representation of a woman possible. Designed to appease the insecurities of the unflattering. No cleavage, small bust, broader than normal shoulders, torso like a drainpipe, elongated facial structure with a large jutting masculine jawline. Almost like a barely passable trans woman. Why women, particularly feminists, don’t find that shit offensive, I’ll never know.
Like others have mentioned, this immersion breaking trope of the small petite woman overpowering multiple large men in combat is utterly played out. It can work if handled appropriately but it just falls flat in games that are more serious and grounded.
Honestly, all of us, male and female, deserve so much better than what we are getting.
Considering the addressable market for all of these games is majority male. It doesn’t make sense in alienating the largest contingent of your audience. It’s funny, the developers are clearly aware of that fact. It’s why there are typically no real love interests in games that feature a female protagonist. Men would find it weird to get hit on by a guy whilst playing as a girl. That’s actually gay as fuck!
Another problem I have with the portrayal of women in gaming is the masculinisation. The women we see talk, act and behave just like men. They have no sensuality, sexuality or femininity. They rarely display empathy, compassion or any of the key feminine character traits. The insinuation being, that only in the adoption of masculine character traits can a woman be considered formidable. What an absurd and offensive notion indeed. It’s irksome, any genuinely interesting possibilities that may naturally exist when playing as a female character are never present. It’s just the same macho man power fantasy you would expect with a male player character. Such a waste.
Most female protagonists are designed to be the most non sexually threatening representation of a woman possible. Designed to appease the insecurities of the unflattering. No cleavage, small bust, broader than normal shoulders, torso like a drainpipe, elongated facial structure with a large jutting masculine jawline. Almost like a barely passable trans woman. Why women, particularly feminists, don’t find that shit offensive, I’ll never know.
Like others have mentioned, this immersion breaking trope of the small petite woman overpowering multiple large men in combat is utterly played out. It can work if handled appropriately but it just falls flat in games that are more serious and grounded.
Honestly, all of us, male and female, deserve so much better than what we are getting.
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Guilty_AI
Member
I was refering to twilight, with a girl MC and a pair of men vampire/werewolf. You get the idea..... close enough. Behold, tsukihime
In fact, VNs like the one you posted have very clear divide between the publics, with literally genre names for whether the VN targets the male or female public.
And look, i'm not saying you cant have universal stories and games that can appeal to everyone. I'm saying that there definitely exists stories and games with specific male or female target audiences and that they're common enough.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
In those games like Monster Hunter with character creation I dont play as "me".
Most of the time I try make the character look like other characters from other video game that I liked.
DoubleClutch
Gold Member
This is a great post and adds a lot to the conversation.
It’s a good point you bring up. Devs are hedging their bets. Make a female to bring in women, but give her manly features to retain men. What you end up with is the old adage, “when you try to please everybody…”
And I agree with you, playing as a female and pursuing male love interests in game is definitely homoerotic at the least. That’s also why they refrain from it and draw the line at having men play as women.
DoubleClutch
Gold Member
In those games like Monster Hunter with character creation I dont play as "me".
Most of the time I try make the character look like other characters from other video game that I liked.
Are they typically men?
Reizo Ryuu
Member
It's even funnier because Riot themselves have said a couple years ago that the split between male and female champions for male players is literally 50/50.
Red Scarlet
Member
I only use demons in my party in SMT that I identify with, like this:
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Hold up right there, chief.
2024 Essential Facts About the U.S. Video Game Industry
The 2024 report details America’s relationship with video games and the reasons why games continue to inspire and delight us all. Play is a universal need for kids as well as adults. Video games build community, keep our minds sharp and bring us closer to others. Embracing the power of games...
www.theesa.com
53 to 46 is not a 'majorly' difference.
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Danjin44
The nicest person on this forum
Some games I play make them male and some games I make them female.
In Monster Hunter I usually like to make them female because I like female armor set more
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balls of snow
Member
Lol Valerie is my canon V in Cyberpunk.
So was femshep in Mass Effect and Kassandra in Ac Odyssey. I love them just as much as Geralt, Kratos and Arthur Morgan. None of them have 'women issues' as you put it.
So was femshep in Mass Effect and Kassandra in Ac Odyssey. I love them just as much as Geralt, Kratos and Arthur Morgan. None of them have 'women issues' as you put it.
Johnny Concrete
Member
I used to play a female character whenever there was a choice, because there were so many male protagonist games.
Nowadays I only make male characters, because every damn game has a female lead.
Nowadays I only make male characters, because every damn game has a female lead.
Pegasus Actual
Member
MiguelItUp
Member
I just like well written protagonists, and in my experience they've been male or female. Personally, I don't have a preference. In a game where characters matter, I just want good/great ones with good/great writing.
clarky
Gold Member
My Mrs is more confused than me right now....Bruh..Clarky gifting gold here is the least surprising thing I’ve seen this year.
Hollowpoint5557
A Fucking Idiot
I wish I could like this post twice. My Ignore list just grew by leaps and bounds by my blocking of all the white knight simps. If you're a Democrat or feminist in disguise please do us both a favor and block me back. I want no interaction with you.
I actively skip games with female protagonists now. It's not like it used to be with Metroid, OG Tomb Raider, and such. Now a days it's all about the message and girl power fagshennanigans and I vote with my wallet every time.
I actively skip games with female protagonists now. It's not like it used to be with Metroid, OG Tomb Raider, and such. Now a days it's all about the message and girl power fagshennanigans and I vote with my wallet every time.
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The Gamer Triple H
Gold Member
IDENTIFYHold up right there, chief.
2024 Essential Facts About the U.S. Video Game Industry
The 2024 report details America’s relationship with video games and the reasons why games continue to inspire and delight us all. Play is a universal need for kids as well as adults. Video games build community, keep our minds sharp and bring us closer to others. Embracing the power of games...
53 to 46 is not a 'majorly' difference.
lmao. Key word there.Theres quite a few gamers out there that "identify" as women.
The anime fgc community is filled with "women". They definitely didn't identify as women 10 years ago.
Red Scarlet
Member
That's kinda funny since I think the Amiga version sprite had a lighter skin tone for the head and arms than that picture.
edit: yeah, has hair too
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EDMIX
Writes a lot, says very little
In those games like Monster Hunter with character creation I dont play as "me".
Most of the time I try make the character look like other characters from other video game that I liked.
I'm saying! Its crazy cause you have to remind them its a fake video game.
I'm me for majority of the day, why the fuck would I want to play a game as me as if I don't fucking get to play me in a real life sim on a daily basis? lol
Thats like someone saying they can't play Tomb Raider cause they can't see themselves with big boobs jumping thru a cave as if any of that shits is required to play a fake game lol Even in Elder Scrolls, Fallout or Starfield, if I make a character with my features, I still alter a fuck ton and get I'm playing a fake game.
edit. OP can't play Okami cause he can't identify as a dog lol
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YOU PC BRO?!
Gold Member
Hold up right there, chief.
2024 Essential Facts About the U.S. Video Game Industry
The 2024 report details America’s relationship with video games and the reasons why games continue to inspire and delight us all. Play is a universal need for kids as well as adults. Video games build community, keep our minds sharp and bring us closer to others. Embracing the power of games...
53 to 46 is not a 'majorly' difference.
Hold on their chief…
Check out the genres. Specifically Fantasy or Sci-Fi. You may be surprised…
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
ok ..
I hope you identify better with this.
Women Continue To Represent More Of The Gaming Audience, Especially On Switch
More women play video games than you might think.
www.gamespot.com
The ESA or the Circana (linked above) doesn't seem to specify by genre, but they do break it down by console and PC level stats and 47% of total console owners is a pretty even divide.
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Ugh... No?
I feel like stuff like this gives fuel to arguments that say ideology agenda pushing doesnt exist (it does) and gamers are bad (truth is its just the majority of humans).. because this is a poor argument.
Playing as anything can be cool if done well, I'll be a damn broom with googly eyes if its a cool video game experience. Also Im fine with any attractiveness level for character's as it really isnt that important to making a cool/good character design. However if a creator wants to make things one way or another I'm down since I believe in being incredibly open with creative vision. I'm only against blatant agenda pushing (the stuffing it down your throat against the characters, story or common sense), trying to control creative visions (censorship to societal norms) and disrespecting established IP (be my guest in creating your own vision for you own IP, dont corrupt established loved franchises). Video games are about stepping into other worlds, only picking something directly relatable as playable would be incredibly creatively limiting, its called imagination :S
I feel like stuff like this gives fuel to arguments that say ideology agenda pushing doesnt exist (it does) and gamers are bad (truth is its just the majority of humans).. because this is a poor argument.
Playing as anything can be cool if done well, I'll be a damn broom with googly eyes if its a cool video game experience. Also Im fine with any attractiveness level for character's as it really isnt that important to making a cool/good character design. However if a creator wants to make things one way or another I'm down since I believe in being incredibly open with creative vision. I'm only against blatant agenda pushing (the stuffing it down your throat against the characters, story or common sense), trying to control creative visions (censorship to societal norms) and disrespecting established IP (be my guest in creating your own vision for you own IP, dont corrupt established loved franchises). Video games are about stepping into other worlds, only picking something directly relatable as playable would be incredibly creatively limiting, its called imagination :S
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Singular7
Member
If the female protagonist has a genuine hero arc and isn't just automatically good at everything to make up for ... human history (?)
Then OK great.
Show me someone struggling and then determining to be righteous, and I don't care what the gender is.
But yes, female protagonists suck, generally, because a bunch of jackboots don't know (or can't face) history / logic / philosophy / reality and need to make a snarky girl boss anti-hero loser.
Then OK great.
Show me someone struggling and then determining to be righteous, and I don't care what the gender is.
But yes, female protagonists suck, generally, because a bunch of jackboots don't know (or can't face) history / logic / philosophy / reality and need to make a snarky girl boss anti-hero loser.
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You are conflating a push for more diversity of perspectives with lack of capacity to empathize with people who have different perspectives. These are not remotely the same thing. Female gamers (or really any gamers) can, on the one hand, desire more diversity of characters and, on the other, still imagine themselves in the shoes of another sex, race, religion, nationality, age, etc. And there is nothing wrong with more closely identifying with the familiar--that is only human. Inability to put yourself in the shoes of others is a personal deficiency, however, on the spectrum of sociopathy.
No, "empathy" is the correct word. It is quite literally what art is. Art is a technology for exploring empathy, i.e. for putting yourself in the minds of others; to see what they see. Flex that emotional imagination of yours.
clarky
Gold Member
This is the bullshit why modern games are failing. Take a look at yourself because you are the problem.
IFireflyl
Gold Member
ok ..
I hope you identify better with this.
Women Continue To Represent More Of The Gaming Audience, Especially On Switch
More women play video games than you might think.
The ESA or the Circana (linked above) doesn't seem to specify by genre, but they do break it down by console and PC level stats and 47% of total console owners is a pretty even divide.
To be fair, the first article you linked did not differentiate between mobile games and console/PC games. My wife would be considered a gamer according to that, and all she plays are mobile puzzle games, Freecell, and Bingo. I also don't know what criteria was used to get these stats.
The second article is only taking the U.S. into consideration. Additionally, genres are not taken into account. I know several women who are "gamers" according to this, and the only console/PC game they is play Animal Crossing on the Nintendo Switch. Those types of games aren't what these guys are referring to.
Oh? How so?
I come across a majority of men who think their personal opinions represent the majority. They will scour the internet to prove it. And I come across a majority of women who think their opinions represent a unique minority. They too would scour the internet to prove it. No real factual basis for either. I’m currently so sure that I’ve seen a majority of men and women to even make this claim. I guess that makes me a man after all?
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Zannegan
Member
I don't like bad protagonists. There are cool, believable female protags and lame ones that make me roll my eyes. Same for guys.
There may be more lame female main characters at the moment (debatable), but that would only be because the talentless hack writers are following the herd. They don't make classic Croft or Jade or Samus retroactively awful.
There may be more lame female main characters at the moment (debatable), but that would only be because the talentless hack writers are following the herd. They don't make classic Croft or Jade or Samus retroactively awful.
clarky
Gold Member
Remove yourself from your own arse and we'll talk.
After a knee jerk reaction from myself and some self reflection if you read the op i think he has some valid points.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
TBF those guys aren't exactly referring to much, it's mostly the same 'women aren't sensual enough or too masculine' kind of stuff that permeates many similar topics here. The OP doesn't have a single sentence about the genres of games.
Regardless, dismissing 50% of the audience is kinda terrible. Doesn't really matter if that 50% doesn't play all genres of games or only plays selective kinds of games (which is kinda baseless in itself).
I don't like playing SRPG's either but that doesn't make me think of those people who do as non-gamers or not 'real gamers'
Finkle is Einhorn
Cloud is Lightning
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Radical_3d
Member
This thread is the most fertile ground a psychologist would ever encounter. They would be like this reading some opinions here:
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