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[cpp_is_king]

They are in the OP right?

The lot of boutique PC builders have different options, pricing points, cases, and support.
Obviously I'd say put together a machine yourself.

Thanks, I didn't even notice that. I configured an identical machine via AVADirect and Falcon NW, with the only noticeable difference being the case, and Falcon NW is about $1,000 more expensive. Actually I lied, the AVADirect machine has 2400MHz RAM, and the Falcon NW machine has 1866. WTF

 

[Belgand]

Buy 8GB of RAM. If you ever see yourself going near 8GB used, buy 8GB more.

I didn't think you could get away with that anymore. Everything always has tons of warnings that you should never mix sticks. I mean, OK, for dual channel I understand completely, but I was thinking it also applied to filling the other two slots.

 

[AndyBNV]

I didn't think you could get away with that anymore. Everything always has tons of warnings that you should never mix sticks. I mean, OK, for dual channel I understand completely, but I was thinking it also applied to filling the other two slots.

That could be a problem, yes. In my opinion, you should buy the full 16GB now unless you're absolutely certain you'll never need or want more than 8GB. Prices are climbing at present, so upgrading with another 8 (or an all-new set of 16) could be quite expensive in the future.

 

[Hazaro]

I didn't think you could get away with that anymore. Everything always has tons of warnings that you should never mix sticks. I mean, OK, for dual channel I understand completely, but I was thinking it also applied to filling the other two slots.

If you buy a popular model it shouldn't be a problem buying the same sticks again. And I meant as in you would know after using your computer for everything you are currently doing (Not waiting 2 years).
4 sticks vs 2 puts a bit more strain on your NB (possibility limiting high overclocks), but last I checked was around 4 years ago on an overclocking forum!

I agree with going 16GB, but you seemed to want to cut in every place you can, so I'm sure you can wait 1-3 months and decide if you need the extra RAM or not!

 

[AndyBNV]

If you buy a popular model it shouldn't be a problem buying the same sticks again. And I meant as in you would know after using your computer for everything you are currently doing (Not waiting 2 years).
4 sticks vs 2 puts a bit more strain on your NB (possibility limiting high overclocks), but last I checked was around 4 years ago on an overclocking forum!

I agree with going 16GB, but you seemed to want to cut in every place you can, so I'm sure you can wait 1-3 months and decide if you need the extra RAM or not!

Even some of the popular models come and go. I just wouldn't risk it, personally. Refrain from buying an expensive coffee each day for a couple of weeks and you'll have enough extra saved

RE: 2 sticks vs. 4 - yea, 2 is better, but not a lot better.

 

[Monado Blade]

Hi guys!

I just bought a Sapphire Radeon HD 7870 XT to replace the GT640 I got with my brand new PC. I'm not a noob when it comes to building and upgrading PCs, but my experience only goes as far as ancient Athlon XPs so these newfangled PCs with their Windows 8 and PCI expresses confuzzle me somewhat.

What's the best way to go about installing my new card?

Should it be:

1) Uninstall nvidia drivers using the uninstall app with their drivers
2) Shutdown Windows 8 and switch off PC
3) Take out GT640, replace with HD7870 XT
4) Start up Windows 8 and install Catalyst drivers

Is Driver Sweeper still relevant? Does it even still exist? I googled it and it seemed to have been renamed... but the newly renamed app looks iffy and malware-y. Also does Windows 8 even have a safe mode anymore?

Thanks in advance, GAF!

 

[Belgand]

Refrain from buying an expensive coffee each day for a couple of weeks and you'll have enough extra saved

Eww... coffee. How vile. Plus, that would require leaving my house.

I agree with going 16GB, but you seemed to want to cut in every place you can, so I'm sure you can wait 1-3 months and decide if you need the extra RAM or not!

Sort of. It's more an issue about hitting the sweet spot of price/performance. Spending $15 extra where it won't be used is expensive while $35 in the right area can be cheap.

I guess the real question is: at present what is going to reasonably require that much memory and, based on recent trends, at what point would I likely find that I'm feeling constrained by that much memory. If I can safely manage for the next 4 years unless I'm multitasking video editing or massive Photoshop files then it's probably not reasonable. If it provides a notable improvement to game performance and games have been getting hungrier for memory at a rapid rate then it would be foolish to pinch pennies.

The problem is that I've built systems frequently in the past, but I've been out of the loop for the past four or five years and I'm no longer up on where to find those balance points.

Either way, I've also been giving greater thought to the H77 chipset motherboards. Overclocking isn't even remotely under consideration and it seems like that and splitting the PCI-E slot for SLI is the only real difference. Any good suggestions on H77 boards?

 

[Katoki]

I've run into a bit of a snag and don't have additional hardware to troubleshoot so I'm looking for ideas. There is no on-board speaker/pins for one and I don't have a spare 1155 board nor CPU.

ASRock Z77E-ITX
i5-2500k

This is from going from an H60 to a CM Geminii S524 to intel stock cooler.

I'm not quite sure if it's the motherboard or CPU that is shot right now or if I'm too frustrated to notice that I've plugged something in wrong. With just the 24-pin power and 8-pin CPU plugs in, the ethernet port stays orange. Adding in only the power on switch and attempting to turn it on causes the ethernet port to show both orange and green this time for a second and then die out. When I had the S524 on it, the fan would make an attempt to move and then revert back to original position. I figured maybe it was the paper washers I was using for the bolts on the back so I switched to the intel stock cooler. Now with that, nothing happens when I hit the power besides for the ethernet port lights going green and orange for a second.

Any ideas? More questions for context? I don't want to buy another CPU or mobo to troubleshoot or unless I end up having to replace both due to poor handling. There's also the chance of ESD but I'm not sure to what extent that would affect a board/CPU.

Thanks to anyone that took the time to read it. The sad part is that I had turned it on right before deciding that today would be the day to switch coolers and shut it off to do so. Reason for H60 to S524 is to make use of the SG08's AP181 fan, just to clarify that.

 

[Hazaro]

Hi guys!

I just bought a Sapphire Radeon HD 7870 XT to replace the GT640 I got with my brand new PC. I'm not a noob when it comes to building and upgrading PCs, but my experience only goes as far as ancient Athlon XPs so these newfangled PCs with their Windows 8 and PCI expresses confuzzle me somewhat.

What's the best way to go about installing my new card?

Should it be:

1) Uninstall nvidia drivers using the uninstall app with their drivers
2) Shutdown Windows 8 and switch off PC
3) Take out GT640, replace with HD7870 XT
4) Start up Windows 8 and install Catalyst drivers

Is Driver Sweeper still relevant? Does it even still exist? I googled it and it seemed to have been renamed... but the newly renamed app looks iffy and malware-y. Also does Windows 8 even have a safe mode anymore?

Thanks in advance, GAF!

Sounds good to me, I always have to double check when I swap GPU vendors.
mkenyon wrote up a good guide somewhere here too, but I can't seem to find it.

Sort of. It's more an issue about hitting the sweet spot of price/performance. Spending $15 extra where it won't be used is expensive while $35 in the right area can be cheap.

I guess the real question is: at present what is going to reasonably require that much memory and, based on recent trends, at what point would I likely find that I'm feeling constrained by that much memory. If I can safely manage for the next 4 years unless I'm multitasking video editing or massive Photoshop files then it's probably not reasonable. If it provides a notable improvement to game performance and games have been getting hungrier for memory at a rapid rate then it would be foolish to pinch pennies.

The problem is that I've built systems frequently in the past, but I've been out of the loop for the past four or five years and I'm no longer up on where to find those balance points.

Either way, I've also been giving greater thought to the H77 chipset motherboards. Overclocking isn't even remotely under consideration and it seems like that and splitting the PCI-E slot for SLI is the only real difference. Any good suggestions on H77 boards?

RAM: You can get 8GB. Use your computer. If you hit near 8GB used, buy more. Nothing of gaming or average use hits that cap (I've had 8 for a long time). I've only come close while leaving Firefox open taking 1.5GB and streaming or doing video rendering.
As I don't code I couldn't tell you how RAM intensive it is or what you might expect. More RAM won't speed up games. More RAM usage will probably be expected for GPUs, but not system memory. (See if Andy has a better answer )
I'm getting 16GB since I'm doing streaming and have come close to hitting 8GB. Some people like having a program like Photoshop open with 6 things, or not having to worry about RAM at all, and they can get 16GB as well. Some people will never use more than 6GB at a time.

H77: Most cheaper boards use the 'non enthusiast' chipset, and also try to bring the price down in other ways. Main thing that I can discern from a consumer level is to make sure
1. Board doesn't have a lot of issues
2. How many VRM/Mosfets it has (e.g. 4+1 or 6+1 or 12+3). Usually this is lower and can be cause for failures over time for people driving the system beyond normal use. Shouldn't be a problem, especially since you are buying a lower power CPU. Personally I wouldn't like having a 4+1 board for a long period of time, but it's probably totally fine since we've moved away from those fat caps.

I've run into a bit of a snag and don't have additional hardware to troubleshoot so I'm looking for ideas. There is no on-board speaker/pins for one and I don't have a spare 1155 board nor CPU.

ASRock Z77E-ITX
i5-2500k

This is from going from an H60 to a CM Geminii S524 to intel stock cooler.

I'm not quite sure if it's the motherboard or CPU that is shot right now or if I'm too frustrated to notice that I've plugged something in wrong. With just the 24-pin power and 8-pin CPU plugs in, the ethernet port stays orange. Adding in only the power on switch and attempting to turn it on causes the ethernet port to show both orange and green this time for a second and then die out. When I had the S524 on it, the fan would make an attempt to move and then revert back to original position. I figured maybe it was the paper washers I was using for the bolts on the back so I switched to the intel stock cooler. Now with that, nothing happens when I hit the power besides for the ethernet port lights going green and orange for a second.

I don't know your original problem. Why did you swap coolers? Was it working before?

Remove everything extra other than 1 stick of RAM and try to boot.

 

[DeathIsTheEnd]

This is my first time building a PC, so any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor (£89.94 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: ASRock B75 PRO3 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£57.32 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£45.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£53.39 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 560 Ti 1GB Video Card (£148.99 @ Amazon UK)
Wireless Network Adapter: Asus PCE-N15 802.11b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter (£20.48 @ Amazon UK)
Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (£39.95 @ Aria PC)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHOS104-06 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Drive (£27.98 @ Novatech)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) (£67.19 @ Aria PC)
Mouse: Gigabyte GM-M6900 Wired Optical Mouse (£11.99 @ Ebuyer)
Speakers: Logitech X-140 4W 2ch Speakers (£15.86 @ Dabs)
Other: Asus VS228H (£115.49)
Other: Antec VP450P (£41.99)
Other: Logitech K200 Keyboard (£13.99)
Total: £750.55
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-18 11:51 GMT+0000)

I intend to mainly use it for watching 1080p video and gaming, particularly strategy/simulation. As long as it runs above 30fps and at decent settings I'm happy. I may upgrade in the future, but it's not something I'll bother with for quite a while at least.

I was aiming for £750 and can push it to £800 if necessary.

 

[Vestal]

I don't know your original problem. Why did you swap coolers? Was it working before?

Remove everything extra other than 1 stick of RAM and try to boot.

This.. Not to mention try different mem sticks, and maybe different ram slots as well.. Remove the CMOS battery to reset the bios as well.

 

[Vestal]

This is my first time building a PC, so any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor (£89.94 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: ASRock B75 PRO3 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£57.32 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£45.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£53.39 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 560 Ti 1GB Video Card (£148.99 @ Amazon UK)
Wireless Network Adapter: Asus PCE-N15 802.11b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter (£20.48 @ Amazon UK)
Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (£39.95 @ Aria PC)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHOS104-06 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Drive (£27.98 @ Novatech)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) (£67.19 @ Aria PC)
Mouse: Gigabyte GM-M6900 Wired Optical Mouse (£11.99 @ Ebuyer)
Speakers: Logitech X-140 4W 2ch Speakers (£15.86 @ Dabs)
Other: Asus VS228H (£115.49)
Other: Antec VP450P (£41.99)
Other: Logitech K200 Keyboard (£13.99)
Total: £750.55
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-18 11:51 GMT+0000)

I intend to mainly use it for watching 1080p video and gaming, particularly strategy/simulation. As long as it runs above 30fps and at decent settings I'm happy. I may upgrade in the future, but it's not something I'll bother with for quite a while at least.

I was aiming for £750 and can push it to £800 if necessary.

Just doing a quick reading over it I would grab the
3570 processor.

 

[kharma45]

This is my first time building a PC, so any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor (£89.94 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: ASRock B75 PRO3 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard (£57.32 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£45.99 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (£53.39 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 560 Ti 1GB Video Card (£148.99 @ Amazon UK)
Wireless Network Adapter: Asus PCE-N15 802.11b/g/n PCI-Express x1 Wi-Fi Adapter (£20.48 @ Amazon UK)
Case: NZXT Source 210 Elite (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case (£39.95 @ Aria PC)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHOS104-06 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Drive (£27.98 @ Novatech)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) (£67.19 @ Aria PC)
Mouse: Gigabyte GM-M6900 Wired Optical Mouse (£11.99 @ Ebuyer)
Speakers: Logitech X-140 4W 2ch Speakers (£15.86 @ Dabs)
Other: Asus VS228H (£115.49)
Other: Antec VP450P (£41.99)
Other: Logitech K200 Keyboard (£13.99)
Total: £750.55
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-03-18 11:51 GMT+0000)

I intend to mainly use it for watching 1080p video and gaming, particularly strategy/simulation. As long as it runs above 30fps and at decent settings I'm happy. I may upgrade in the future, but it's not something I'll bother with for quite a while at least.

I was aiming for £750 and can push it to £800 if necessary.

Change the PSU to this XFX 450w http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/components/powersupplies/p1-450s-x2b9.html

Change your GPU to a 7850 as it's faster, uses less power, overclocks well and you get two free games. One like this http://www.dabs.com/products/asus-a...-3-0-hdmi-directcu-ii-87VF.html?q=7850&src=16 or this http://www.ebuyer.com/390921-sapphi...-displayport-pci-e-graphics-card-11200-14-20g

Just doing a quick reading over it I would grab the
3570 processor.

That'd put it well over budget, only CPU you could change to bar an i3 would be the AMD FX 6300 in that price range.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

So my PSU just failed out the blue on my HTPC. I have decided the components are old and it is time for a upgrade.

Current specs are E5200 dual core Intel, 4GB DDR2 800 OCZ, Gigabyte G31 mATX and the failed PSU is a Antec 380W EarthWatts Green.

The PC is only used for general/basic stuff and streaming my Flac files over USB to my DAC. I'll reuse my case (Antec NSK-2480) and just need recommendations for a MOBO/CPU/RAM/PSU.

Just the modern equivalent of my current budget spec stuff will do. Cheers.

 

[kharma45]

So my PSU just failed out the blue on my HTPC. I have decided the components are old and it is time for a upgrade.

Current specs are E5200 dual core Intel, 4GB DDR2 800 OCZ, Gigabyte G31 mATX and the failed PSU is a Antec 380W EarthWatts Green.

The PC is only used for general/basic stuff and streaming my Flac files over USB to my DAC. I'll reuse my case (Antec NSK-2480) and just need recommendations for a MOBO/CPU/RAM/PSU.

Just the modern equivalent of my current budget spec stuff will do. Cheers.

Something like a MATX B75 board, Pentium G2120, 8GB DDR3 RAM and an XFX Pro 450w would be what I'd look at, although spending a bit more and going modular could be an option as your case looks tight for space.

Where are you from? UK, I'll look now and do something up for you.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Something like a MATX B75 board, Pentium G2120, 8GB DDR3 RAM and an XFX Pro 450w would be what I'd look at, although spending a bit more and going modular could be an option as your case looks tight for space.

Where are you from? UK, I'll look now and do something up for you.

Thanks a lot. I don't mind going a bit higher on components if it is better bang for buck. I'm just out of the loop on what the current best buy brands are ATM!

 

[kharma45]

Thanks a lot. I don't mind going a bit higher on components if it is better bang for buck. I'm just out of the loop on what the current best buy brands are ATM!

Right I've two options for you, one Intel and one AMD. First up the Intel

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/KvMh

This is the AMD build http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/KvNm

Out of the two I'd probably go for the AMD myself. CPU isn't as strong for single threaded stuff but it's got a much better GPU and the CPU will be good enough for anything you're throwing at it. Although if you can afford it I'd upgrade the APU to the A8 5600K but that takes the price to £220 although arguably if it's just the basics like browsing etc. you'd be fine with the A6.

 

[brentech]

The CPU fan should be on the other side and blowing at your case rear exhaust unless you have something funky setup.

Maybe shouldn't have trusted a mistaken ridden walk through on that install. Either way, I'm taking care of it. Thank you.
Got it dismounted and removed paste already. Really should have checked how the fan blades were curved.
About to reapply and remount.

edit: turns out the fan can mount to the heatsink on either side, but I didn't like the way I had the heatsink on to begin with. It wasn't perfectly perpendicular and the thermal paste could have been done better. It's all for the better in the end.

 

[chickdigger802]

Was originally planning on building a brand new pc, but I realized that outside of mobo CPU and ram, everything else is pretty new. So I feel like upgrading those would be cheaper alternative. A few questions.

8 v 16 GB ram? Running 3 monitors and like to have many programs open and 4 GB is getting me low memory errors a lot these days. Also... Any good guide on ram? So many options with some truly awful names lol.

CPU... Pc will mostly be for gaming and I'm not too interested in over clocking. Something decent and can last me a bit. Also Should stock fan be ok modern CPUs are pretty power efficient right?

What's a decent full size atx mobo that I don't really need all the extra gizmos, but USB 3.0 would be nice ( and a lot of USB ports!) and sturdy build quality?

Would I need to reinstall windows if I swap out mobo and memory and CPU?

Mobo+CPU+ram. I think $500 would be the max, but less would always be nice

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Right I've two options for you, one Intel and one AMD. First up the Intel

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/KvMh



This is the AMD build http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/KvNm



Out of the two I'd probably go for the AMD myself. CPU isn't as strong for single threaded stuff but it's got a much better GPU and the CPU will be good enough for anything you're throwing at it. Although if you can afford it I'd upgrade the APU to the A8 5600K but that takes the price to £220 although arguably if it's just the basics like browsing etc. you'd be fine with the A6.

Thanks for doing that for me Kharma. I'll update when everything is sorted.

 

[Smokey]

Was originally planning on building a brand new pc, but I realized that outside of mobo CPU and ram, everything else is pretty new. So I feel like upgrading those would be cheaper alternative. A few questions.

8 v 16 GB ram? Running 3 monitors and like to have many programs open and 4 GB is getting me low memory errors a lot these days. Also... Any good guide on ram? So many options with some truly awful names lol.

CPU... Pc will mostly be for gaming and I'm not too interested in over clocking. Something decent and can last me a bit. Also Should stock fan be ok modern CPUs are pretty power efficient right?

What's a decent full size atx mobo that I don't really need all the extra gizmos, but USB 3.0 would be nice ( and a lot of USB ports!) and sturdy build quality?

Would I need to reinstall windows if I swap out mobo and memory and CPU?

Mobo+CPU+ram. I think $500 would be the max, but less would always be nice

8gb would most likely be fine unless you are doing intensive multimedia work.

Since this is a gaming machines a nice z77 board and a 3570k will do you good. Overclocking is literally changing two values in the bios and you are in the 4.3ghz range in less than 30 secs. Some mobo and coolers are recommended in op.

You should reinstall windows.

Also do you plan to game on the 3 monitors? If so you'll need a pretty decent gpu to do that.

 

[Vestal]

Was originally planning on building a brand new pc, but I realized that outside of mobo CPU and ram, everything else is pretty new. So I feel like upgrading those would be cheaper alternative. A few questions.

8 v 16 GB ram? Running 3 monitors and like to have many programs open and 4 GB is getting me low memory errors a lot these days. Also... Any good guide on ram? So many options with some truly awful names lol.

CPU... Pc will mostly be for gaming and I'm not too interested in over clocking. Something decent and can last me a bit. Also Should stock fan be ok modern CPUs are pretty power efficient right?

What's a decent full size atx mobo that I don't really need all the extra gizmos, but USB 3.0 would be nice ( and a lot of USB ports!) and sturdy build quality?

Would I need to reinstall windows if I swap out mobo and memory and CPU?

Mobo+CPU+ram. I think $500 would be the max, but less would always be nice

between a 3750k an ASRock Z77 and 16gb G.Skill ram you can get to about 400 and change.. I say 16gb Gskill since they are running a promotion on Newegg buy Asus/AsRock board and get 1 8gb stick for free, thus just buy another stick and you have dualchannel.

3570 is 189.99 on Microcenter right now.

 

[longdi]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-performance,3461-8.html

Haswell i7 4770k preview! as fast as ivy bridge is to sandy bridge in most cases. in cases with avx2 and fp heavy, it is much faster. could be a killer cpu for next gen games.

some disappointments :
-GT3 igp with 128mb of edram is only for notebooks and such
-k versions do not come with TSX! now thats a real W.T.F.
-haswell lga1150 is a last of its breed upgradeable socket? another W.T.F?

We know from our talks with motherboard vendors at this year’s CES that you’ll be able to buy Haswell in LGA 1150 trim, but that its successor, Broadwell, is going to be BGA-only (meaning it’ll ship soldered onto motherboards). Now, it’s possible that Skylake, the architecture to follow Broadwell, will see Intel re-introduce an upgradeable interface. However, Core i7-4770K is going to get a lot of attention, if only because of its position as the last flagship before we’re subject to less flexibility.

 

[Vestal]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-performance,3461-8.html

Haswell i7 4770k preview! as fast as ivy bridge is to sandy bridge in most cases. in cases with avx2 and fp heavy, it is much faster. could be a killer cpu for next gen games.

some disappointments :
-GT3 igp with 128mb of edram is only for notebooks and such
-k versions do not come with TSX! now thats a real W.T.F.
-haswell lga1150 is a last of its breed upgradeable socket? another W.T.F?

If intel trully goes this route it might make me pull the trigger and go back to AMD. I like my processors and Motherboards apart from each other..

 

[Xdrive05]

I'm hoping Haswell brings the 3770k down in pricing, but there's really no need for that from Intel's point of view.

Sure would love some market competition involving more than one company about now... :-/

 

[mkenyon]

If intel trully goes this route it might make me pull the trigger and go back to AMD. I like my processors and Motherboards apart from each other..

It's only for the consumer line, which makes so much sense it's not even funny. That'll be rad though, getting a gaming motherboard with a K socket already soldered in? Sounds like it will do nothing but make the buying process easier for regular consumers.

The motherboard/processor navigation is a minefield of mistakes with 1155/1150.

The -E line will remain LGA.

I'm hoping Haswell brings the 3770k down in pricing, but there's really no need for that from Intel's point of view.

Sure would love some market competition involving more than one company about now... :-/

Not gonna happen. Look at the price of 2700Ks.

 

[Rhyvven]

Was originally planning on building a brand new pc, but I realized that outside of mobo CPU and ram, everything else is pretty new. So I feel like upgrading those would be cheaper alternative. A few questions.

8 v 16 GB ram? Running 3 monitors and like to have many programs open and 4 GB is getting me low memory errors a lot these days. Also... Any good guide on ram? So many options with some truly awful names lol.

CPU... Pc will mostly be for gaming and I'm not too interested in over clocking. Something decent and can last me a bit. Also Should stock fan be ok modern CPUs are pretty power efficient right?

What's a decent full size atx mobo that I don't really need all the extra gizmos, but USB 3.0 would be nice ( and a lot of USB ports!) and sturdy build quality?

Would I need to reinstall windows if I swap out mobo and memory and CPU?

Mobo+CPU+ram. I think $500 would be the max, but less would always be nice

Since others have mentioned a Z77, I just put this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130643) in a "budget" gaming PC I just built. Based on some nice features on the MB, it doesn't seem too "budget". It also comes with 8GB RAM right now.

I'd also "second" the AMD 7850 choice. Nice GPU and as noted above, comes with two games. (as long is promotion is still on. I didn't check)

 

[kharma45]

Not gonna happen. Look at the price of 2700Ks.

Might do because of the socket change.

 

[mkenyon]

Might do because of the socket change.

Nah, the Q9xxx's remained the same MSRP until stock ran out. They just don't drop the prices at all.

Used CPUs, on the other hand. . .

 

[kharma45]

Nah, the Q9xxx's remained the same MSRP until stock ran out. They just don't drop the prices at all.

Used CPUs, on the other hand. . .

Orly? Used 3770K could tempt me then.

 

[scogoth]

Haswell seems like its shaping up to, well another Ivy Bridge. ~10% maximum gain on heavily threaded CPU tasks, probably not going to OC that much higher than the previous generation, better iGPU and yet another motherboard socket.

 

[Vestal]

It's only for the consumer line, which makes so much sense it's not even funny. That'll be rad though, getting a gaming motherboard with a K socket already soldered in? Sounds like it will do nothing but make the buying process easier for regular consumers.

The motherboard/processor navigation is a minefield of mistakes with 1155/1150.

The -E line will remain LGA.

Look at it from the other side of the equation though. It will limit the variation and supply of particular processors since MB manufacturers will have to limit their flavors to a small selection of processors. Not to mention that it will cause shortages since Manufacturers won't want to overstock certain boards in fear of loosing even more money if they don't sell.

Now my real gripe is the ability to upgrade. Being able to switch motherboards or processors to improve performance or get added features without having to drop cash for both a cpu and motherboard.

This just creates a worse single point of failure were if mobo goes bad well if you don't have good warranty hello price for mobo+cpu. Same other way around.

 

[mkenyon]

Look at it from the other side of the equation though. It will limit the variation and supply of particular processors since MB manufacturers will have to limit their flavors to a small selection of processors. Not to mention that it will cause shortages since Manufacturers won't want to overstock certain boards in fear of loosing even more money if they don't sell.

You really have no idea if this is true. This has never been the case with BGA boards though, so history says no. We're not talking about crazy expensive processors here, just the consumer ones.

Now my real gripe is the ability to upgrade. Being able to switch motherboards or processors to improve performance or get added features without having to drop cash for both a cpu and motherboard.

If anyone has upgraded from P67/Z68 to Z77, they didn't do it for any rational reason. There's never going to be a socket that remains alive long enough for a meaningful upgrade again. It's been this way since Nehalem.

If you want to be able to upgrade, buy an enthusiast board. They're not taking your option away, they just taking your option away on budget/consumer boards.

This just creates a worse single point of failure were if mobo goes bad well if you don't have good warranty hello price for mobo+cpu. Same other way around.

What bad warranties exist? Everything is 3 years now.

 

[longdi]

yes the soldered on cpu is Intel aim of shifting the logistics headache to their motherboard partners. makes some sense after all Intel is leaving the motherboard market shortly. i am afraid the costs for diy'ers may go up and pick your parts selections down.

agree on the single point of failure. you can buy a top of the line cpu but if you board sata ports go bad, you have to rma the whole thing and it may take weeks if not months. no longer can i buy another motherboard and resell the rma one.

 

[Oxn]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-performance,3461-8.html

Haswell i7 4770k preview! as fast as ivy bridge is to sandy bridge in most cases. in cases with avx2 and fp heavy, it is much faster. could be a killer cpu for next gen games.

some disappointments :
-GT3 igp with 128mb of edram is only for notebooks and such
-k versions do not come with TSX! now thats a real W.T.F.
-haswell lga1150 is a last of its breed upgradeable socket? another W.T.F?

Wtf

Notebooks will get a better igp than the desktop counterpart? The hell? Well that really screws up my htpc haswell build using an igp for low power consumption

Edit: read article and notebooks do not get gt3, only bga boards

 

[mkenyon]

yes the soldered on cpu is Intel aim of shifting the logistics headache to their motherboard partners. makes some sense after all Intel is leaving the motherboard market shortly. i am afraid the costs for diy'ers may go up and pick your parts selections down.

agree on the single point of failure. you can buy a top of the line cpu but if you board sata ports go bad, you have to rma the whole thing and it may take weeks if not months. no longer can i buy another motherboard and resell the rma one.

Now you're just making things up

But really, 1155 has been a disaster. Have an HXX board and want to get a 2500K to overclock? Too bad. Have a Z68 but need PCI-E 3.0? Too bad.

Most folks who have to RMA a motherboard aren't going to go out and buy a new one in the meantime.

But again, if you want to avoid this, buy an enthusiast board. The option isn't going away.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Looking for some feedback on this build from AVA Direct:

DESKTOP PC Core™ i7 X79 8-DIMM 3-way SLI® / CrossFireX™ Performance Custom Computer System
ANTEC Performance One P183 V3 Black Mid-Tower Case, ATX, No PSU
SILVERSTONE Strider Plus ST75-P 750W Power Supply w/ Modular Cables, 80 PLUS®, 24-pin ATX12V v2.3 2x EPS12V, 4x 6-pin + 2x 8/6-pin PCIe, Retail
ASUS P9X79 PRO, LGA2011, Intel® X79, DDR3-2400 (O.C.) 64GB /8, PCIe x16 SLI CF /2+2*, SATA 6Gb/s /4, 3Gb/s /4, USB 3.0 /6, HDA, BT, GbLAN, ATX, Retail
INTEL Core i7-3930K Six-Core, 3.2 - 3.8GHz TB, LGA2011, 12MB L3 Cache, HT EM64T EIST VT XD, 32nm, 130W, Retail w/o Fan
COOLER MASTER TPC 812 CPU Cooler, Socket 2011/1155/1156/1366/775/FM1/AM3/AM2, Copper/Aluminum
INTEL RTS2011LC CPU Liquid Cooling System, Socket LGA2011/1155/1156/1366, Retail
ANTEC Formula 7 Nano Diamond Thermal Compound
G SKILL 32GB (4 x 8GB) Trident X PC3-19200 DDR3 2400MHz CL10 (10-12-12-31) 1.65V SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC
XFX Radeon™ HD 7970 Double Dissipation 925MHz, 3GB GDDR5 5500MHz, PCIe x16 CrossFire, DVI + HDMI + 2x mini-DP, Retail
SEAGATE 1TB Barracuda®, SATA 6 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 64MB cache
CRUCIAL 512GB M4 SSD w/ Data Transfer Kit, MLC Marvell 88SS9174, 500/260 MB/s, 2.5-Inch, SATA 6 Gb/s, Retail
CRUCIAL 512GB M4 SSD w/ Data Transfer Kit, MLC Marvell 88SS9174, 500/260 MB/s, 2.5-Inch, SATA 6 Gb/s, Retail
RAID RAID 0 (striping), min 2 hard drives required
LITE-ON iHAS124 Black 24x DVD±RW Dual-Layer Burner, SATA, OEM
LOGITECH Z506 5.1 Surround Speaker System, 75W RMS (4x8W + 16W + 27W), Black, Retail
RAZER Lycosa™ Gaming Keyboard w/ 7 Function Keys, Black, USB, Retail
LOGITECH G600 MMO Gaming Mouse, Black, 8600 dpi, 20 Buttons, USB, Retail
MICROSOFT Windows 7 Professional 64-bit Edition w/ SP1, OEM
WARRANTY Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, 3 Year Labor Warranty)



This is going to be used for both gaming and work (Software development, lots of code compiling etc). For some of the components (hard drive, case, video card, keyboard, mouse, etc), there were about a billion different choices which all seemed identical, so I'm not sure if it makes a difference which one I chose, but in any case soliciting feedback.

 

[mkenyon]

Pretty legit, but a few things I'd look at swapping out.

1) The case, it's outdated and discontinued.

2) You have two coolers selected, the TPC 812 and the Intel liquid cooler. Those are both good choices, but you need one or the other.

3) XFX Radeon cards are loud and hot, worse than reference.

4) Razer/Logitech peripherals are poorly made and light on features for the price. Get a mouse and keyboard from the OP if possible.

5) The PSU is a quality one, but you could go down to a 550W/600W PSU to save a bit of scratch.

*edit*

Looks like they offer Fractal cases, get the Define R4.

 

[Goldrush]

It's been around four years since I build my computer. Just wondering if any standards changed that might prevent me from swapping out my nvidia 9800 gtx for a ati 7870 le?

 

[Vestal]

You really have no idea if this is true. This has never been the case with BGA boards though, so history says no. We're not talking about crazy expensive processors here, just the consumer ones.

We are talking about 150-400 or so MSRP processors. So lets take an easy one the 3570k right now and look at its price. Lets say in bulk a Manufacturer can buy them for 140 a pop(60 dollars under MSRP). So a 100 cost of material(for a board) for a sale now balloons to 240 dollars. Its a huge financial risk for any manufacturer.

If anyone has upgraded from P67/Z68 to Z77, they didn't do it for any rational reason. There's never going to be a socket that remains alive long enough for a meaningful upgrade again. It's been this way since Nehalem.

What about upgrading the processor. It sucks. Its a bad move from a consumer standpoint

If you want to be able to upgrade, buy an enthusiast board. They're not taking your option away, they just taking your option away on budget/consumer boards.

Buying an Enthusiast board means buying the E line processors, which means dropping a lot of dough for a processor.

What bad warranties exist? Everything is 3 years now.

Yeah but imagine the limits set on these warranties. Probably void it if you OC your processor, which right now is not the case. Sure the Processor warranty voids but you don't have to buy a board as well.

 

[Vestal]

It's been around four years since I build my computer. Just wondering if any standards changed that might prevent me from swapping out my nvidia 9800 gtx for a ati 7870 le?

Probably not.. You should be good.

 

[MrBig]

I welcome Haswell knocking it out of the park, but realistically I'm guessing 10-30% over Ivy. The real gains should be in the new GPUs coming out in Q3-Q4. 1.5 years will be a full Moore's law 2x, or so we can hope.

Toms posted some Haswell numbers. Very minimal CPU gains, big jump to the GPU again, yep.

 

[cpp_is_king]

Pretty legit, but a few things I'd look at swapping out.

1) The case, it's outdated and discontinued.

2) You have two coolers selected, the TPC 812 and the Intel liquid cooler. Those are both good choices, but you need one or the other.

3) XFX Radeon cards are loud and hot, worse than reference.

4) Razer/Logitech peripherals are poorly made and light on features for the price. Get a mouse and keyboard from the OP if possible.

5) The PSU is a quality one, but you could go down to a 550W/600W PSU to save a bit of scratch.

*edit*

Looks like they offer Fractal cases, get the Define R4.

Thanks, I made some changes and came up with this:

DESKTOP PC Core™ i7 X79 8-DIMM 3-way SLI® / CrossFireX™ Performance Custom Computer System
FRACTAL DESIGN Define R4 Black Pearl Silent Mid-Tower Case, ATX, No PSU, Plastic/Steel
SILVERSTONE Strider Plus ST60F-P 600W Power Supply w/ Modular Cables, 80 PLUS® Bronze, 24-pin ATX12V 2.3 EPS12V, 4x 6-pin + 1x 8-pin PCIe, Retail
ASUS P9X79 PRO, LGA2011, Intel® X79, DDR3-2400 (O.C.) 64GB /8, PCIe x16 SLI CF /2+2*, SATA 6Gb/s /4, 3Gb/s /4, USB 3.0 /6, HDA, BT, GbLAN, ATX, Retail
INTEL Core i7-3930K Six-Core, 3.2 - 3.8GHz TB, LGA2011, 12MB L3 Cache, HT EM64T EIST VT XD, 32nm, 130W, Retail w/o Fan
INTEL RTS2011LC CPU Liquid Cooling System, Socket LGA2011/1155/1156/1366, Retail
ANTEC Formula 7 Nano Diamond Thermal Compound
G SKILL 32GB (4 x 8GB) Trident X PC3-19200 DDR3 2400MHz CL10 (10-12-12-31) 1.65V SDRAM DIMM, Non-ECC
XFX Radeon™ HD 7970 Double Dissipation 925MHz, 3GB GDDR5 5500MHz, PCIe x16 CrossFire, DVI + HDMI + 2x mini-DP, Retail
SEAGATE 1TB Barracuda®, SATA 6 Gb/s, 7200 RPM, 64MB cache
CRUCIAL 512GB M4 SSD w/ Data Transfer Kit, MLC Marvell 88SS9174, 500/260 MB/s, 2.5-Inch, SATA 6 Gb/s, Retail
CRUCIAL 512GB M4 SSD w/ Data Transfer Kit, MLC Marvell 88SS9174, 500/260 MB/s, 2.5-Inch, SATA 6 Gb/s, Retail
RAID RAID 0 (striping), min 2 hard drives required
LITE-ON iHAS124 Black 24x DVD±RW Dual-Layer Burner, SATA, OEM
LOGITECH Z506 5.1 Surround Speaker System, 75W RMS (4x8W + 16W + 27W), Black, Retail
MICROSOFT Windows 7 Professional 64-bit Edition w/ SP1, OEM
WARRANTY Silver Warranty Package (3 Year Limited Parts, 3 Year Labor Warranty

I had to remove the mouse / keyboard because they don't offer any of the ones from the OP. I have had really bad experiences with wireless KB / Mouse in the past, so I'm looking to go wired.

I didn't change the video card yet, because I'm not sure which ones are recommended. Any suggestion there, or just "anything except for XFX"?

 

[mkenyon]

We are talking about 150-400 or so MSRP processors. So lets take an easy one the 3570k right now and look at its price. Lets say in bulk a Manufacturer can buy them for 140 a pop(60 dollars under MSRP). So a 100 cost of material(for a board) for a sale now balloons to 240 dollars. Its a huge financial risk for any manufacturer.

What about upgrading the processor. It sucks. Its a bad move from a consumer standpoint

Buying an Enthusiast board means buying the E line processors, which means dropping a lot of dough for a processor.

Yeah but imagine the limits set on these warranties. Probably void it if you OC your processor, which right now is not the case. Sure the Processor warranty voids but you don't have to buy a board as well.

The 3820 is less than the 3770K/2700K.

No sense in making things up or assuming the worst when we are years out and totally in the dark as to how the business model will work. The only thing we have to go on is the current set of BGA motherboards, and that makes me pretty hopeful. Streamlining the purchasing system for consumers on the consumer socket makes a lot of sense to me though.

I had to remove the mouse / keyboard because they don't offer any of the ones from the OP. I have had really bad experiences with wireless KB / Mouse in the past, so I'm looking to go wired.

I didn't change the video card yet, because I'm not sure which ones are recommended. Any suggestion there, or just "anything except for XFX"?

Is this the system you are configuring?

http://www.avadirect.com/quiet-gaming-pc-configurator.asp?PRID=22465

 

[cpp_is_king]

Is this the system you are configuring?

http://www.avadirect.com/quiet-gaming-pc-configurator.asp?PRID=22465

I actually went to Desktop PC / Custom Desktop / Socket 2011.

 

[Facism]

i'd like to thank they guys who took the time to help me out earlier. I'm going with a gtx 660.

As for a monitor, the LG that was recommended looks nice.

Anyone have any other suggestions for a monitor @ around £120? Would appreciate it dearly.

 

[Vestal]

i'd like to thank they guys who took the time to help me out earlier. I'm going with a gtx 660.

As for a monitor, the LG that was recommended looks nice.

Anyone have any other suggestions for a monitor @ around £120? Would appreciate it dearly.

If you can go with the 660ti.. think its a 70 dollar difference or so and it is well worth it.

I personally love this monitor(have one myself)
ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black 23.6" 2ms LED Backlight Widescreen LCD Monitor
159.99 after 15 dollar mail in rebate through newegg.

 

[mkenyon]

I actually went to Desktop PC / Custom Desktop / Socket 2011.

Okay, yeah, you'd want to swap in the Sapphire equivalent. Are you sure you won't need NVIDIA for Cuda support?

Before you hit purchase, I want you to know I just did a rough price comparison. You'd save around $500-700 by building it yourself. If there's any chance you are in the Pacific NW, I'd definitely do it for you as well.

 

[Facism]

If you can go with the 660ti.. think its a 70 dollar difference or so and it is well worth it.

I personally love this monitor(have one myself)
ASUS VS Series VS247H-P Black 23.6" 2ms LED Backlight Widescreen LCD Monitor
159.99 after 15 dollar mail in rebate through newegg.

I'm in the UK so we get douched with salt when it comes to prices

 

[mrklaw]

My overclockers order shipped already, should be here tomorrow

Ordered Friday evening, rang them Saturday morning to change the SSD and they had already built it! Managed to get them to switch it out to a 250GB SSD though so enough space for some games.