hemo memo
You can't die before your death
It was Burger King actually.
IGN: "Console Gaming is Too Damn Expensive, Something Has to Give."
Jsisto
Member
Buy less games. You don't need every hit game that comes out if you can't afford it. NES and SNES games were in the 50 dollar range in the 90s. If you haven't noticed, everything else has gotten way more expensive since then. I really don't want to be insensitive but I'm genuinely tired of the whining. Cancel your Netflix/hulu/max/disney+/bangbros/spotify/youtubepremium subscriptions or stop buying every newest iteration of the iPhone. Stop getting food from apps. Game development has gotten more expensive. I don't see the issue.
Raven77
Member
Sure but that's pointless to focus on because greed has been a factor in nearly EVERY price increase that has ever happened in every industry since they started trading grain in Mesopotamia.
IF the people running the games industry were truly greedy, games would have likely jumped to $80 a decade ago.
The fact is that game development costs at the AAA level have gone up 50 to 500x in some instances. Meanwhile games have been at the exact same price for 35 years. Yes, microtransactions, DLC, and other garbage are ways that developers and publishers have found to make more money off of gamers without raising the price of games. But we can't have it both ways. Wouls you prefer to go back in time and have games jump to $80 in 2010, $90 in 2020, and $100 dollars in 2025 - but DLC and other monetary systems didn't exist? I think that's a lot more interesting to discuss.
Unfortunately for us gamers, we're going to end up with both it seems. Games increasing in price and over-monetization will continue.
StreetsofBeige
Member
Even worse. The gaming industry is one where people go ape shit pre-ordering games, including digital downloads as if the bandwidth will run out.
Then repeat the cycle on other pre-orders and also stockpiling games on backlog. How many industries do you know where someone will buy 10, 20 or 100 products and never get around to using them. Not too many.
Toons
Member
Then when are you gonna play the video games lmao
NickFire
Member
Didn't read the article but the headline premise doesn't sound crazy. I'm not particularly worried. I do get annoyed of course, just not worried about price. But there's always people who have less disposable income and if you start losing too much volume it might become an issue at some point. Don't forget everything is getting more expensive which is more risky to non necessities
Plies
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
Knucklepux
Member
I get that greed, to some extent, has always existed. But with the outside influence of investors, as well as the incredibly high salaries of executives, it's definitely become much more greedy.
"The rising cost of AAA". I'm curious what most people think that means exactly. How do you quantify that?
I would think spending $80 on a game is much more palatable to people if they know they aren't just essentially buying a store front. If $80-$90 got you a complete package, and that was a well known standard. I think it wouldn't be such a big deal
Most people seem to have an issue with the cost of games because it's usually that a AAA game launches half broken and jam packed with microtransactions.
It's all about perceived value. Exactly why people will spend so much going out to a restaurant, to the movies, buying clothes, etc…
Developers/publishers would make games $150 today if they could, but they can't because they wouldn't sell any lol. So by nature, the consumer keeps the greed in check
Exactly why we continue to hear rumors of GTA VI launching at a higher price. And for my money, why they delayed it. They want to see how the market responds to Switch 2 and now Xbox game pricing.
That's greed. They don't need to launch their game at $100 to be significantly profitable. In fact they make even more money from GTA Online
TKOFromTokyo
Member
For those complaining about greed, do you offer to work for less than you can get from your employers? The purpose of companies is to maximize the value of the company for ownership/stakeholders. If you look at gross margins and operating margins at these companies, items not egregious. If they were greedy and asking for too much, market demand would correct it.
ArtHands
Banned
Earlier on the thread someone actually tried to justify why console has insane value compared to PC because a console can also play blu ray. Something quickly losing its relevant as people switch to Netflix and streaming services.
Despite that a PC can do much more common tasks like emails, typing work documents, making music, twitch streaming, 3D modelling, video conferencing, video/photo editing, etc
Felessan
Member
If you typical PC crowd who likes f2p, old and indies - for sure. For current slate of release it significantly more expensive than consoles.
Modern portable laptop will net you 25 fps on all low at fullHD in Obscur. Perfect way to play games.
Otherwise its a perfect notebook - lightweight and powerfull enough to run browser and excel.
Guilty_AI
Member
I've seen people content playing cyberpunk at 15 fps, besides tons of popular games dont need to run on a 'proper' gaming device to be playable. You certainly dont need a rtx 4070 to play Stardew Valley properly and my god that game is popular.
iQuasarLV
Member
/Rant on - -
Inflation caught up with all the cost cutting that has gone on over the last 25 years. They are not passing the buck to the consumer and the backlash is starting. Nothing grandiose about it.
They removed physical media (profit)
They removed retail logistics (profit)
They increased team sizes, then lay them off when product releases (profit)
They increased labor crunch to everything minus 5-7 hours of sleep and commute times (profit)
They added micro transactions beyond game sales (profit)
They added season passes to games (profit)
They turned single-player games into live services requiring a race of player engagement to reap personal data, shop, season pass sales (profit)
Now two things have happened.
1) inflation leaped majorly in the last 5 years shrinking the profit margins
2) Interest rates jumped from 0.1% to 7% for business loans.
Gaming corporations can no long show their investors never ending profits because the buying market has adjusted away from yearly CoD, Madden, FIFA type releases and the live service market has maxed out burning out the potential customer to new IPs. The maximum players are now showing and there is no longer an unending growth market of customers like there was in 2005-2010
Now with no more money coming from the back door via banks; investors increasingly calling out these companies practices because they are finding out publicly with the news threatening to pull their investment portfolios (ie mutual funds worth 100s of millions); and sales maxing out in the current market per product release. These companies are now aiming for upfront cost via the initial price of purchase. Because if you can at $10 or 20$ to 3,000,000 copies sold you just improved your ROI by 33% per copy.
This is why we're seeing this!
Nothing to do with external market influences pushing poor old Sony / Nintendo / Microsoft to pay more to make a product because what physical investment is there in making the product? The only pressures they are seeing is the bottom line is disappearing. The people signing the checks are drying up. The free money is disappearing. The government incentive programs handing out grants or 0.03% loans for injecting government ideals into their product (ie DEI enhanced loans). Now they have to make tough choices on how to make next quarter's profits show. So we see:
1)Massive Layoffs reducing labor cost
2)Cancellation of games that were projected to cost $75-$500 million to put onto market
3)Increasing upfront asking prices of the customers.
These companies are gouging every fucking wall trying to keep what money flowing they can for as long as they can. This is the corporate version of flinging shit on a wall and seeing what sticks. Obviously, the loans won't stick, the grants won't stick, the investors are sliding down the wall slowly, and so we see them throwing the shit labelled increases product prices at sale being tossed onto the wall because Sony's seems to be sticking so lets follow that!
/Rant off - -
Felessan
Member
For publisher it's probably a loss, as physical media management, store cut included, iirc are a bit cheaper than digital stores cut
That's a loss for sure. Increased teams even if they cut afterwise is a higher cost. Besides contract workers usually a bit more expensive than permanent stuff to compensate temporary status of work
These are true and helped compensate both inflation and increase in scope (bigger teams/budgets)
Market still grow rather fast, it's just that AAA SP games are stagnant.
There are obliged to do so.
Unlike common misconception investors doesn't require "growth" of a company, it's good if company grow, it's fine if it's not IF it provide stable profits. No one really expect Activision (and Blizzard and King not much better) as it's a company of one game that mostly reached it peak of what it can do. Doesn't make it a bad company as it constantly generate ROE above industry average so investors just fine with cashflows.
And if a company doesn't comply - investors can take actions up to management removal or even company dissolution and companies doesn't want it, so they are struggling to meet investors ROI targets.
Liopleurodon
Member
I just found this.
Search didn't work, but I don't recall seeing this posted yet today.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/29/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm
Activision is going to raise prices next year by $3 to $5. Other companies haven't said anything yet, but analysts apparently want them to raise prices. Including one in the article who wants it done this fall, so consumers can be conditioned to higher prices for next year.
This can't be good.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/09/29/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm
Activision is going to raise prices next year by $3 to $5. Other companies haven't said anything yet, but analysts apparently want them to raise prices. Including one in the article who wants it done this fall, so consumers can be conditioned to higher prices for next year.
This can't be good.
PlayStaytion
Member
Deals will happen more than ever, I don't care.
awwr999999
Member
The world's watching sub-4k content (games, streaming, TV, etc.) that's been 'upscaled' (stretched) just so it can watch 4k UHD Blu-ray content in perfect clarity.
4k Blu-ray and 4k TVs have been prioritized at the detriment of PlayStation and gaming as a whole.
Without UHD Blu-ray there's no obvious reason to own a 4k TV.
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yep 3 $80 games instead of 4 $60 games.
MALpractice311
Member
Or wait 6 to 8 weeks after the release date and get all 4 games on sale for anywhere from 20% to 50% off. It's not difficult. I simply don't understand why gamers have such a huge problem with impulse control. Don't buy games on release date. Don't pre-order games. It's that's simple. You'll save a ton of money that way.
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BlackTron
Member
This guy can't let this concept go that we need to bring back SNES/PS2 to save gaming itself from collapsing. Like every time I see him it's something about it.
Actually, seems he toned down the SNES rhetoric slightly, so maybe he's getting therapy.
The phenomenon of pre-ordering is one of the most enduring mysteries in all of gaming to me.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
I think we all need to adjust our spending to get used to this as it may pass sooner than later.
I think when you have an economic shift happening, it's also a little premature to call this particular thread as well.
Makes for good discussion but wait to see how his things shake down and see if some of these bikes are here to stay.
Microsoft's model isn't particularly impressive as you subsidize gamepass with price hikes and then you start hearing about things that were once included being potentially hidden behind a kind of monrhyl subscription.
Here's an example
Fallout 76 - a friend convinced me to get it and since I have GP, great, installed. Mind you it's 8~USD pending on where you look but I digress. I want to do a fully co op run and see you need Fallout One, or whatever that monthly services is called, just to have proper story progression. And this was noted when we had a hell of a time with missions and having to juggle the already bad UI and map/mission system with seeing if we can both track the same missions manually instead of how proper and basic co op has worked for years now.
If anything, you may like GP for now but it's things like this which makes the bloom come off the rose real fast.
Sony and Nintendo are two separate arguments so to the first comment going in the same cheap Sony/Nintendo too point, wrong.
I think when you have an economic shift happening, it's also a little premature to call this particular thread as well.
Makes for good discussion but wait to see how his things shake down and see if some of these bikes are here to stay.
Microsoft's model isn't particularly impressive as you subsidize gamepass with price hikes and then you start hearing about things that were once included being potentially hidden behind a kind of monrhyl subscription.
Here's an example
Fallout 76 - a friend convinced me to get it and since I have GP, great, installed. Mind you it's 8~USD pending on where you look but I digress. I want to do a fully co op run and see you need Fallout One, or whatever that monthly services is called, just to have proper story progression. And this was noted when we had a hell of a time with missions and having to juggle the already bad UI and map/mission system with seeing if we can both track the same missions manually instead of how proper and basic co op has worked for years now.
If anything, you may like GP for now but it's things like this which makes the bloom come off the rose real fast.
Sony and Nintendo are two separate arguments so to the first comment going in the same cheap Sony/Nintendo too point, wrong.
ArtHands
Banned
A console isn't as expensive as owning a house or a car there
Sinfulgore
Member
That comment was in response to you saying you could get 300 hours out of $25 and why should Mario Kart World be $80. This is a pretty silly statement to make since video games aren't priced based on how many hours of enjoyment you get out of them, just like cars aren't priced based on how many miles you can get out of them.
How you think the game looks is irrelevant to anyone but you, because like I said, everyone has their own value system. If you don't think Mario Kart World is worth $80 that's fine then dont buy it for $80.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That's that waste of money trash build, yes.
You don't get into PC gaming just to barely match the Pro at a more premium price for subpar non-future proof kit.
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How long til the govt decides we are getting "ripped off" with gaming?
Trump just announced tariffs on movies. Can games really be that far behind.
It's just one price increase after another, consoles prices, game prices, battle passes, pc parts, we really don't need anything else.
Trump just announced tariffs on movies. Can games really be that far behind.
It's just one price increase after another, consoles prices, game prices, battle passes, pc parts, we really don't need anything else.
You're right about the working for less thing. But complaining or boycotting is the consumer answer to the "offering to work for less" argument. People in here are kinda saying no, we won't pay more for less. It goes both ways right. The complaints get to a point where the industry realizes they can't go higher. Or else they just keep going
YeulEmeralda
Linux User
THE RENT IS TOO DAMN HIGH
Word Steam sale is the gift that keeps on giving.
kiphalfton
Member
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iQuasarLV
Member
Yea, funny how 51% of USA has been at 61-63k/year for the last 25 years (AFI). Says something about the whole ask for a raise argument, innit?
TKOFromTokyo
Member
I've looked at the historical gross margins and operating margins. Nintendo is up, has been since the success of the Switch, especially COVID, but they need to reinvest this earnings in R&D and games. Also, they have history of flopped hardware and need to give themselves cushion. Sony is trying to maintain peak PS4 margins, and MS is trying to make up for lower console sales and get a return on their recent acquisitions. None of these companies have sky rocketing margins. People need to understand that.
iQuasarLV
Member
Their NET margin is still 10% beyond 2016. That is after all bills are paid and interest met for their earnings. That is all divisions combined music / movies / games / financial services / TVs / etc. I would love to have 10% of my pay extra after every paycheck for the last 9 years.
But hey, maybe I can go into businesses and say, times are tough I think I need a 33% discount on what I am buying with my utilities, mortgage taxes, car insurance, food.
*edit*
Microsoft is 30-35% net margin since 2018
Nintendo is 37% since 2017.
None of them are losing money and margines are steady for more than 5 years, so why the shift to find more avenues of revenue?
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diffusionx
Gold Member
you can play Stardew Valley on your phone
Zacfoldor
Member
I will just say one thing to the PC champions.
Let's say that everyone sees the light, agrees with you and buys a PC.
Where is the money that is required to run the industry going to come from then?
I'll tell you. PC gamers. If you won, and we all got on PC gaming, PC gaming would change. The money has to come from somewhere. It's only a matter of time before Microsoft makes you pay to play. They have only been courting PC so far, we've seen how they behave and based on past behavior we can assume a sterner hand is coming as soon as one runs out of options. MS could snuff out any PC behavior that hurts their bottom line thru lateral pressure. This is them pandering to you, but you don't want to see them trying to earn money off you. SOMEBODY has got to keep the industry afloat and gamepass nor any other rental service is going to pay for all these games being made. If the dog catches the bus and console gaming does die, your precious PC gaming will be over too. It won't be dead, but it will be changed and I also promise that we will hate almost every change. The good old days of PC gaming are right now. PC gamers better hope console gaming continues because they don't want that smoke. When everyone is a "PC Master Race" no one is, and also you will be treated like the console peasants that PC gamers so despise.
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Guilty_AI
Member
But not Factorio, Dota 2, CS, Truck Sim, TF2, V Rising or whatever other dozens of popular games are out there that dont necessarily require super powerful hardware. Stardew Valley is just one in a sea of many one could try to play on whatever random PC/Laptop they have at home.
Plague Doctor
Member
Forget the hardware. The software special sales on consoles is balls. I understand why there is a weird cult to Gamepass (but still think its all mostly slop and not worth it).
Yeah I am not going to spend $60 during a "Special Sale" on the console game storefront that's full priced is $70 and act like they are doing me a favor.
Nah...
I have a huge backlog cause I (not satire but sober self awareness) have incredibly poor self restraint during steam sales. I see 75% off and magically become interested in games. It's like "what?... a visual novel about running a bakery in Regency France that has rhythmic control mechanics? I don't like any of that shit but it's 3 dollars. I have bought really bad coffee for more than that. I can always refund it." Seriously, I need to talk to somebody about my self restraint during those fucking sales. But in my defense when I drop 70 bucks, I have a haul of 10+ games and the soundtracks and whatever kitchey bullshit they are including that I will never look at.
Lastly I can wait for console exclusives to eventually come to PC and then wait a few more years to have a believable price.
Yeah I am not going to spend $60 during a "Special Sale" on the console game storefront that's full priced is $70 and act like they are doing me a favor.
Nah...
I have a huge backlog cause I (not satire but sober self awareness) have incredibly poor self restraint during steam sales. I see 75% off and magically become interested in games. It's like "what?... a visual novel about running a bakery in Regency France that has rhythmic control mechanics? I don't like any of that shit but it's 3 dollars. I have bought really bad coffee for more than that. I can always refund it." Seriously, I need to talk to somebody about my self restraint during those fucking sales. But in my defense when I drop 70 bucks, I have a haul of 10+ games and the soundtracks and whatever kitchey bullshit they are including that I will never look at.
Lastly I can wait for console exclusives to eventually come to PC and then wait a few more years to have a believable price.
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Humdinger
Gold Member
I might consider rental services (e.g., Gamefly, GP, etc.) in the future. I haven't gone that route yet, but I'll consider it. In an ideal world, I would buy games to support the developers I like, but I can't see paying $80 for a game. I can afford it - that's not the issue. I just balk at spending $80 on a single game, unless I know I will spend months with it.
Btw, rising prices will mean continued bloat used to justify those prices ("80 hours of content!").
Btw, rising prices will mean continued bloat used to justify those prices ("80 hours of content!").
TKOFromTokyo
Member
Most financial analysts don't care about net income. They look at EBITDA, that will mostly help you understand the value of companies on a fairly standard basis. Net income also includes non-operating income and tax expense. Really, it's not the best metric. Even EPS for earnings releases typically focuses on Net Income adjusted for specifieds.
To answer your question, they're making these increases to offset rising costs to maintain margin.
kiphalfton
Member
Companies like to screw their employees. Contrary to what bootlickers say, loyalty doesn't pay. Hell job hopping barely helps when you get to a certain point.
ArtHands
Banned
Many console people will scream at you because "ownership".
Humdinger
Gold Member
I doubt it. Most people have better things to do than fret about whether I buy or rent games.
As a child of the 80's I will NEVER understand these articles. It's literally never been cheaper to be a gamer. New game prices have barely changed in 40 years. Growing up you were lucky to get a few games a year on birthdays and Christmas. Now a single subscription for the price of 1.5 games gets you thousands of games to last the year, with new ones constantly added. If even with that youre still finding it too expensive, then you really shouldn't be gaming and should be working out how to make money.
It is so hilarious that you made that argument and at thr same time mentioned every other type of media when they all have gotten cheaper.
Jsisto
Member
Every streaming service I listed has gone up in price steadily. Not familiar with bang bros though maybe your subscription went down recently? Happy for you.