Support NeoGAF

[DenchDeckard]

Most people aren't downplaying it's success. It's just that there are others trying to make it out like another Minecraft and that is absolutely not nor has ever been the case. The game had a rough start, and got better around the time it landed on Steam.

I mean 9.32 million is respectable but I'd also say that's a typical result for a game of SoT's caliber and history. It's a moderate success, but it's clearly not some GaaS heavyweight like certain fans have tried pushing over the years.



That's probably also including MTX & DLC content add-on sales tho; when I mentioned the sales discounts, I was just referring to the base game.

You heard it here, folks. 9.32 million units sold on one store front is simply a repectable number of sales.....

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Funny how everyone downplays its success at every turn.

No one downplays its successes.

We downplay how fun it is and it's meager player engagement metrics. (It's last 6 months have the lowest player population in the games history)

It's definitely a successful game for Rare.

 

[Senua]

You heard it here, folks. 9.32 million units sold on one store front is simply a repectable number of sales.....

Imagine if it was on his favourite box, the downplaying would be keelhauled

 

[Chukhopops]

All of that seems believable except Grounded at 2M, that’s a lot considering how much competition there is in that space on PC.

If true that seems to be some fairly healthy numbers considering all those MS games (except Diablo 4 I guess) are on a sub service « « cannibalizing » » it.

Also really sad for Minecraft Legends, it was good but flawed.

 

[ChoosableOne]

No, we don't. We just prefer certain games over others. Check top played Steam games and you'll see the pattern.

They released it late and at full price. No wonder nobody bought it. There are better plaformers on PC for way, way less.

PS-Timetracker

Time tracking for all PlayStation games - Want to know how long it took you to finish your favorite game or complete that super hard platinum? Just add the bot as a friend on PSN to see your stats in detail.

ps-timetracker.com

I don't know if it's a reliable site but this list is probably true. Other than Valve's games, and some strategy/mouse heavy games, they are almost identical. Rust, Gta, Cod, Fifa, Apex etc.

Fortnite, Minecraft, Rocket League, Genshin and Roblox are not on Steam and they are probably the most played games on Pc too.

I played a lot of 3d platformers on Pc and Sackboy is one of the best games of that genre, especially as a coop experience. It's price could be better though. I would be happy if you can name some better 3d platformers than Sackboy on Pc.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

You heard it here, folks. 9.32 million units sold on one store front is simply a repectable number of sales.....

Well first it depends on if the number's even correct; that's just a guess on OP's part. It could be right or close but it's nothing official.

Also we know on PC the vast majority of Sea of Thieve's sales are from Steam; it's not on EGS and Windows Store is a much smaller amount of the sales. Again I think they're good numbers, but they aren't "beasting" numbers. Not for a game that's meant as GaaS and been on Steam for 4 years.

Imagine if it was on his favourite box, the downplaying would be keelhauled

No I'd probably say the same thing: quite good/respectable sales, but nothing insane. Depends on the game though, and the install base of the platform at the time.

I'd say Forza Horizon 5's Steam sales are more impressive, assuming the estimate is correct or near being correct.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Well first it depends on if the number's even correct; that's just a guess on OP's part. It could be right or close but it's nothing official.

Also we know on PC the vast majority of Sea of Thieve's sales are from Steam; it's not on EGS and Windows Store is a much smaller amount of the sales. Again I think they're good numbers, but they aren't "beasting" numbers. Not for a game that's meant as GaaS and been on Steam for 4 years.



No I'd probably say the same thing: quite good/respectable sales, but nothing insane. Depends on the game though, and the install base of the platform at the time.

I'd say Forza Horizon 5's Steam sales are more impressive, assuming the estimate is correct or near being correct.

A brand new ip from rare about pirates selling potentially over 10 million sales is an incredible amount of sales.

If its 12 plus million with xbox and PC xbox store I consider that pretty damn impressive sales wise.

Shit even 5 or 6 million sales would be crazy good. How can 10 million sales only be respectable?

 

[SportsFan581]

“As Dusk Falls - 70k (fucking lol)“

The saddest part here is that this is genuinely one of the best games on that list.

I like it as well. But it was as much a choose your own adventure story as it was a game. I don't know about these figures, but I wouldn't expect it to have done that much better on Steam. Gameplay is king on PC.

 

[Kaleinc]

“As Dusk Falls - 70k (fucking lol)“

The saddest part here is that this is genuinely one of the best games on that list.

Never heard of this shit.

 

[CatLady]

Sony games are not a great match for the PC crowd. I don't think there's a single sandbox game in their catalogue, but I might be wrong.

It seems Sony games don't do well on PC. Maybe Sony should test out porting their games to Nintendo and Xbox with an eye towards going full 3rd party.

 

[Nikana]

Most people aren't downplaying it's success. It's just that there are others trying to make it out like another Minecraft and that is absolutely not nor has ever been the case. The game had a rough start, and got better around the time it landed on Steam.

I mean 9.32 million is respectable but I'd also say that's a typical result for a game of SoT's caliber and history. It's a moderate success, but it's clearly not some GaaS heavyweight like certain fans have tried pushing over the years.



That's probably also including MTX & DLC content add-on sales tho; when I mentioned the sales discounts, I was just referring to the base game.

 

[Alexios]

Eh, you can't extrapolate SteamSpy or anyone being in the right ballbark for some games to being spot on for every game & even apply the exact same ratio to all games, there's a reason they can have the potential sales have major differences like a game listed as between 10 & 20 million sales.

 

[tusharngf]

I paid around 100 dollars for Forza horizon plus dlc content on steam

 

[Senua]

It seems Sony games don't do well on PC. Maybe Sony should test out porting their games to Nintendo and Xbox with an eye towards going full 3rd party.

Full priced 2 year old ports tend to not sell the best, whoda thought!

 

[DeaDPo0L84]

Something has to be wrong here... I find it hard to believe that 4M+ people bought Starfield on PC outright. Being that it's on gamepass.

Unless I am missing something. And if it sold that much on PC alone... There is no way MS keeps that quiet and says nothing about it.

I bought 2x premium editions on PC, regretfully but still.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

A brand new ip from rare about pirates selling potentially over 10 million sales is an incredible amount of sales.

If its 12 plus million with xbox and PC xbox store I consider that pretty damn impressive sales wise.

Shit even 5 or 6 million sales would be crazy good. How can 10 million sales only be respectable?

I mean, again, it depends on the average selling price of those copies. Which isn't the launch MSRP, likely not even 60% of the launch MSRP. I'm saying revenue from the B2P sales is respectable; not amazing, but solid.

But it's a GaaS, so I'm sure the revenue off DLC and MTX makes up for any of the dampened revenue in B2P sales from the discounts the game regularly goes on sale at. Another reason I say it's respectable though (and hey, it's you all making that out like it's downplaying :/), is because for a GaaS it's on the low end. I don't see SoT as a GaaS the way, say, a Madden or MLB is. Those are annual B2P games with live-service/light GaaS components, but they don't live and breath online. They regularly replace the old version annually.

Sea of Thieves isn't really like that.

 

[SlimySnake]

Something has to be wrong here... I find it hard to believe that 4M+ people bought Starfield on PC outright. Being that it's on gamepass.

You can look at the steam numbers. PC gamers are weird like that. They dont like to use anything other than steam even if its free or cheap. Just look at the EGS store backlash.

Also, Starfield is one of those rare games that you buy. Its a PC focused studio making a PC centric game. Of course it was going to sell and sell well. No one is subscribing for a month to play a game that we were potentially going to play for years. Granted, the game didnt turn out too well but initial sales of 4 million on PC seem very accurate. I expected five million even with it being on gamepass. I bought it on steam myself instead of subbing for a month like I did for Star Wars and Avatar.

 

[Gaiff]

Full priced 2 year old ports tend to not sell the best, whoda thought!

They actually do well though. Horizon was over 3 years old by the time it came to PC and still managed to sell over 3.3M units by February 2023. It's likely much closer to 4M now. GOW is probably creeping up on 3M if it hasn't already reached that number.

Those are some solid sales.

 

[THE DUCK]

Even if these numbers are accurate they are basically useless without knowing how many were sold on the ms store and added gamepass revenue. Only then would you really know how well they did.

 

[Fess]

Let's say I am interested in a RPG I will be playing for the next 10 years. What is less expensive ? Buying the game or subscribing for GamePass for 10 years ?

That’s not it. It’s about Steam being popular and you know it’ll have better mod support.

 

[SportsFan581]

Even if these numbers are accurate they are basically useless without knowing how many were sold on the ms store and added gamepass revenue. Only then would you really know how well they did.

Exactly, plus the costs and expectations for everything. Expectations for something like Starfield is going to different then Grounded and so on.

 

[Senua]

They actually do well though. Horizon was over 3 years old by the time it came to PC and still managed to sell over 3.3M units by February 2023. It's likely much closer to 4M now. GOW is probably creeping up on 3M if it hasn't already reached that number.

Those are some solid sales.

Yea those are decent, but you get my point. They have the potential to sell a bit more than that!

 

[SirKicksalot]

There's no way AOE 3 DE sold that much.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Yea those are decent, but you get my point. They have the potential to sell a bit more than that!

Not at the expense of suppressing B2P sales on their own console, though. I dunno why some people keep ignoring that part. In that regard, Sony aren't in the same situation as Microsoft when it comes to generally dropping B2P console sales (if anything, PS's B2P sales revenue is growing), and their console install base isn't collapsing. As a platform holder, they wouldn't want to sabotage value proposition for their console in software sales by pushing Day 1 on PC, on storefronts they have no control or ownership of.

The only way Day 1 happens on PC for Sony games is when they have their own PS Storefront on the platform, which is still many years away I'd assume (because they'd have to convince 3P to support it with native versions to make it viable, which would take a lot of time).

 

[RavageX]

I suspect a lot of people that have game pass (like me) still bought Starfield on a different platform such as Steam (like I did). Only games Im not sure about, or plan to buy later I will just play on gamepass.

On a different note, As dusk falls seemed interesting. Wish it did better than that but to be honest even I only tried it a few times. The art/motion is weird to me and I dont think I like it fully.

 

[Senua]

Not at the expense of suppressing B2P sales on their own console, though. I dunno why some people keep ignoring that part. In that regard, Sony aren't in the same situation as Microsoft when it comes to generally dropping B2P console sales (if anything, PS's B2P sales revenue is growing), and their console install base isn't collapsing. As a platform holder, they wouldn't want to sabotage value proposition for their console in software sales by pushing Day 1 on PC, on storefronts they have no control or ownership of.

The only way Day 1 happens on PC for Sony games is when they have their own PS Storefront on the platform, which is still many years away I'd assume (because they'd have to convince 3P to support it with native versions to make it viable, which would take a lot of time).

Lowering the day one price wouldn't do any of that, but obviously they think it's worth having them sell less and having them seem like a premium item. I'm never buying an old port at full price myself. But we digress..

 

[U n i o n 0015]

Forza Motorsport - 155k

Oof.

 

[Nvzman]

I find it difficult to believe Starfield has sold 4 million copies on PC alone since september

Considering the endless modding capabilities (meaning 7+ months of gamepass becomes more expensive to play one game vs $70 outright), long single player RPG nature of the game that PC players tend to love, the fact that it's a Bethesda game (so it already has some hype behind it), and it didn't release on PlayStation (meaning most people with a PS5 and PC can only play on PC), 4 million actually sounds completely believable.

 

[Stuart360]

As usual a lot of console gamers that dont understand Steam.
Starfield has 140k user reviews, and was the no.1 wishlisted game on Steam for over a year.
Under normal circumstances you would actually expect higher sales for Starfield than 4mil with those numbers behind it, but i guess all the negativity and trolling around the games launch did have a negative effect on sales.

 

[XXL]

There's no way AOE 3 DE sold that much.

I just recently bought AOE2 DE for around $4 on Steam.

 

[PropellerEar]

i guess all the negativity and trolling around the games launch did have a negative effect on sales.

How bad the game is has nothing to do with the bad sales right?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Lowering the day one price wouldn't do any of that, but obviously they think it's worth having them sell less and having them seem like a premium item. I'm never buying an old port at full price myself. But we digress..

Well okay, depending on how late the ports came, yeah I can agree to a degree the price should be lower. Personally I think the window for the ports needs to be expanded to 4-6 years, but in return do one of the following:

1: Bring that game and any extra content, with QOL improvements etc. to PC at a reasonable reduced price (probably no higher than $40) or,

2: Add the game into a collection with a couple other games, do some QOL improvements etc., and bring it to PC for either a reduced price or (if warranted) $60/$70 (probably only for notable collection releases).

I think those are reasonable.

As usual a lot of console gamers that dont understand Steam.
Starfield has 140k user reviews, and was the no.1 wishlisted game on Steam for over a year.
Under normal circumstances you would actually expect higher sales for Starfield than 4mil with those numbers behind it, but i guess all the negativity and trolling around the games launch did have a negative effect on sales.

Well recently the game's been out of the Top 100 or near the bottom of that ranking for sold games on Steam. So a lot of the sales appear to have been severely frontloaded.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Phil called it right to get XBox games Day 1 on PC then.

Never doubt Big Dick Phil Spencer.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I mean, again, it depends on the average selling price of those copies. Which isn't the launch MSRP, likely not even 60% of the launch MSRP. I'm saying revenue from the B2P sales is respectable; not amazing, but solid.

But it's a GaaS, so I'm sure the revenue off DLC and MTX makes up for any of the dampened revenue in B2P sales from the discounts the game regularly goes on sale at. Another reason I say it's respectable though (and hey, it's you all making that out like it's downplaying :/), is because for a GaaS it's on the low end. I don't see SoT as a GaaS the way, say, a Madden or MLB is. Those are annual B2P games with live-service/light GaaS components, but they don't live and breath online. They regularly replace the old version annually.

Sea of Thieves isn't really like that.

Hey, as long as you share this same energy when we find out a playstation game sold 10 million units. 60% at launch msrp and that sales are respectable. Then all good.

Gaas doesn't mean a game sells more. It's the most competitive market to sell and secure users over time than any other game. A much harder sell than a story like movie experience that is a one and done and move on. Imo.

10 million units, and let's be honest it's more like plus 12 million is amazing for sea of thieves and puts it into the conversation with the biggest titles in the industry. Its probably at around 14 to 15 million including xbox.

If these numbers can be trusted at all, which I dunno.

 

[Moriarty1889]

With MS refusing to report console sales and game sales everything is pure speculation at best.

 

[PendekarRajawali]

Something has to be wrong here... I find it hard to believe that 4M+ people bought Starfield on PC outright. Being that it's on gamepass.

Unless I am missing something. And if it sold that much on PC alone... There is no way MS keeps that quiet and says nothing about it.

 

[simpatico]

Deathloop with 800,000 more sales than it deserved.

 

[Sentenza]

One (very approximative) rule of the thumb corroborated multiple times over the years by several developers to estimate sales on Steam is multiplying the number of reviews for a 30X factor AT MINIMUM up to a 60X factor (at maximum).

For context, going by this process, with a total of 91,367 reviews this would put Starfield anywhere between 2.741.000 copies and 5.482.000 copies sold on Steam. Which roughly matches the 4 millions range estimated here.

Age of Empire III is the redheaded stepchild of the series, but it's also FREE on Steam, so being above a million with its Steam re-release (with 39K reviews) is very believable.

Just for fun, I'll also point out that using the same criteria Baldur's Gate 3 with 477K reviews would be estimated to be anywhere between 14 and 28 millions copies sold on Steam.
Even picking just the conservative estimation and lowering it even more by a few percentage points, what a freaking mega-hit for Larian, a studio that up to this point was considered a minor player by pretty much anyone.

 

[TGO]

Sea of Thieves - 9,32 million

 

[Gavon West]

I don't think 4M is a lot for a game in development for 8 years and is the next from the studio that is still selling Skyrim over and over. Even if you account for the fact that people will be playing it on GamePass.

Really? 4 million isn't a lot for a new IP with no lore and no set fan base installed?

 

[Sentenza]

Really? 4 million isn't a lot for a new IP with no lore and no set fan base installed?

Not for the "brand new thing from the creators of Skyrim".
It's not even a disaster, to be clear, but it's a so-so performance given that they are supposed to be a powerhouse on the market.

 

[diffusionx]

Really? 4 million isn't a lot for a new IP with no lore and no set fan base installed?

Ah yes, Starfield, that totally unhyped and unannounced game that was made by unknown studio Bethesda, definitely a studio that has not sold tens of millions of games over the years.

 

[Gavon West]

Not for the "brand new thing from the creators of Skyrim".
It's not even a disaster, to be clear, but it's a so-so performance given that they are supposed to be a powerhouse on the market.

Those aren't total sales figures either. No doubt it's sold way more than that on Xbox, not including Gamepass. The game is a success no matter how you slice it.

 

[Gavon West]

Ah yes, Starfield, that totally unhyped and unannounced game that was made by unknown studio Bethesda, definitely a studio that has not sold tens of millions of games over the years.

You can't really compare Skyrim as it's been around for over a decade and has had multiple releases. And, Starfield has only been out a few months - recently out of the womb. No doubt things will look dramatically different in four or five years.

 

[diffusionx]

You can't really compare Skyrim as it's been around for over a decade and has had multiple releases. And, Starfield has only been out a few months - recently out of the womb. No doubt things will look dramatically different in four or five years.

Well, for one thing, I think you can compare, because Skyrim hit 10 million by the end of 2011 and is up to 60 now. But Skyrim also got a 90+ Metacritic that delivered on the hype. Starfield is in the low 80s with mixed reception on Steam. People have already moved on. I am not even sure it is going to have the legs of Fallout 4, let alone Skyrim.

Skyrim is the fastest-selling Steam game ever, 10 million retail copies shipped

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim has become the fastest selling title in Steam's history, and Bethesda has shipped 10 million retail copies.

www.theverge.com

As for whether or not it's a success, I dunno, 8 years in development, tons of delays, probably cost $250M to make if not more, kind of died after release, didn't really drive GamePass subs, Bethesda claiming that people who criticize don't know what they are talking about, I'm skeptical.

 

[Sentenza]

Those aren't total sales figures either. No doubt it's sold way more than that on Xbox, not including Gamepass. The game is a success no matter how you slice it.

I don't give a shit of what it sold on XBOX because we were comparing sales on PC and on Steam more specifically.

I also didn't try to argue that the game isn't "a success" (and in fact my first reply in this thread is on the contrary to contradict someone who attempted to claim he doesn't believe the game sold this much on Steam).

I'm just pointing that it's not the massive hit some expected it to be. One of these "year-defining" mega-hits like Elden Ring or BG3.

For context let me remind you that Larian changed BG3's release date specifically to avoid releasing in the same timeframe this was releasing.

 

[bender]

Those PS title sales seem largely underwhelming.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Grounded doing three times better than Gears 5, damn. The low numbers for Pentiment and Gears Tactics are also quite depressing. For me they're among the best games published by Microsoft in the recent years.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Grounded doing three times better than Gears 5, damn. The low numbers for Pentiment and Gears Tactics are also quite depressing. For me they're among the best games published by Microsoft in the recent years.

Disappointing but not all that surprising. Pentiment is pretty niche and Gears appeals more to an action crowd than strategy crowd. I reckon the next Gears will do better… been a bit of a break now and people will be keen to give the IP another go.

 

[Ozriel]

Like is it that unrealistic to think Sea of Thieves has sold 9 million copies after 6-7 years? And we know the vast majority of its base is on PC, not Xbox. Ultimately these numbers would just be speaking to unit sales, not necessarily revenue. After all, I've seen Sea of Thieves on some deep sales multiple times on Steam over the years.



It's done well on PC, but let's not go too far here. That's a little over 9 million after 6, going on 7 years, and with multiple rounds at notable sales discounts to boot. I'd say its sales numbers should be expected on the average end given the amount of time it's been out.

Given the game's not a major seller on Xbox consoles, total sales are probably a bit over 10 million with that platform included.

First off, the game was released on Steam in June 2020, so the numbers sold on Steam are at little over 3.5 years on the market. Quite contradictory of you to insist the bulk of the sales were on Steam and yet cling to the ‘6 - 7 years’ narrative.

March 2018 to date is approximately 6 years so I’m not sure how you calculated the ‘going on 7 years’ part.

It also definitely did quite well on console, becoming the second best selling game in March 2018 NPD, behind only Far Cry 5 and outdoing MLB The Show's launch.

Your point about steep discounts is also moot, since the price chart shows discounts aren’t that frequent and haven’t surpassed 50% off.

And even with infrequent discounts, it has shown up on ‘Best of Steam’ revenue awards charts for every year since it released in 2020.

Also we know on PC the vast majority of Sea of Thieve's sales are from Steam; it's not on EGS and Windows Store is a much smaller amount of the sales. Again I think they're good numbers, but they aren't "beasting" numbers. Not for a game that's meant as GaaS and been on Steam for 4 years.

No I'd probably say the same thing: quite good/respectable sales, but nothing insane. Depends on the game though, and the install base of the platform at the time.

Sales of this magnitude are MUCH better than 'quite good/respectable'. It's Rare's best selling game, fastest selling game and to sell those numbers with a game made on a relatively modest budget and a staff of around 200 people...that's an extremely good outcome.