ISIS declares creation of new "Islamic Caliphate"
- Thread starter dripdripsplash
- Start date
- Status
They are no threat to Iran. Zero.
Anyone listen to the new Dan Carlin podcast this week? It was about this entire situation, and I'm tempted to side with him.
Stay away for 20 years and when the dust settles, remake contact.
Of course, that would cripple the US economy, what with no oil. It'd closely resemble 1928.
Stay away for 20 years and when the dust settles, remake contact.
Of course, that would cripple the US economy, what with no oil. It'd closely resemble 1928.
maniac-kun
Member
China would buy all that oil because they need it.
Yeah it was a good episode of common sense. I tend to agree with him as well. Let them sort it out for themselves.
MisterFalcon
Member
The Dan Carlin solution is like something out of The Onion. He wants less Arab states and starts that process by creating new ones. Then Pan-Arabism will somehow make Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the new ISIStan come together into a new moderate superstate. He forgot to mention that Pan Arab hero Nasser was bombing Yemeni towns with poison gas in the 1960's in a proxy war against the Saudis.
He also completely ignores how a new Sunni state in Iraq will have a big piece of Syria attached to it, something the Syrians may not agree with. This new state will also not reach natural borders and then sit back in peace, it will agressively try to expand into Shi'ite territory, waging war on the unbelievers is central to the ultra radical Sunnis. You can see the roots of ISIS in the Ikhwan raids from the early 19th century until the crushing of the Ikhwan in the 1930's by those terrible colonial Brits.
He also completely ignores how a new Sunni state in Iraq will have a big piece of Syria attached to it, something the Syrians may not agree with. This new state will also not reach natural borders and then sit back in peace, it will agressively try to expand into Shi'ite territory, waging war on the unbelievers is central to the ultra radical Sunnis. You can see the roots of ISIS in the Ikhwan raids from the early 19th century until the crushing of the Ikhwan in the 1930's by those terrible colonial Brits.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
Better dust off a UN seat
block tower
Member
ISIS is something i don't fully understand but given the U.S.'s current attitude toward the region and the Iraq war, i really only see drones and select strikes being a matter of time.
That was a really interesting read! Thank you. It made some aspects of this conflict that seemed illogical actually make sense.
mercenar1e
Member
And in 20 years time they can afford it.
XT Vengeance
Member
I like this human. He understands.
Seriously though, I 100% agree with everything you just said.
speculawyer
Member
All your Muslim are belong to IS.
ISIS is Saudi Arabia's Taliban moment. Just like the CIA funded religious crazies to fuck with the USSR and then lost control over them so Saudi funds religious crazies to fuck with Shias and has now lost control over them.
Saudi is now trumpeting bullshit propaganda about ISIS being some bizarre Shia plot that only convinces people who already think Shias are the root of all evil.
Saudi is now trumpeting bullshit propaganda about ISIS being some bizarre Shia plot that only convinces people who already think Shias are the root of all evil.
speculawyer
Member
All we need is a breakthrough on EVs. If people switched to EVs then we could handle our remaining oil needs with domestic production.
That whole region is going to meltdown once the oil money stops flowing. Yemen is on the leading edge . . . they are running out of both oil and fresh water.
Lol The Mongols plus a few other things, are the reason the Middle East is as fucked as it is right now. Kinda happens when some of the most developed parts of the then known world are reduced to nothing but ashes. Throw in Al-Ghazali and *POOF*, there goes the Arab golden age.
They're trying but they haven't managed it yet. Wikipedia also has a handy map you can use to keep track.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Iraq_war_detailed_map
apparently the iraqi government forces are retaliating with atrocities of their own against the sunni population
There is nothing civil about civil war
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/30/world/meast/iraq-crisis/index.html?c=intl-homepage-t
There is nothing civil about civil war
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/30/world/meast/iraq-crisis/index.html?c=intl-homepage-t
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
That would still mean everyone buying new cars. Not going to happen with our income inequality.
You could subsidize the shit out of it, but how do you think that would go over with the "not poor if you own a refrigerator" crowd?
apparently the iraqi government forces are retaliating with atrocities of their own against the sunni population
There is nothing civil about civil war
http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/30/world/meast/iraq-crisis/index.html?c=intl-homepage-t
This stuff is definitely similar to the whole protestant vs Catholicism christian schism that happened in europe. Really brutal and really scary. I think the best thing we can hope for is that the sides get separated into their own territories.
They also did it in like a week. Plus they have about 400 million dollars, and have a bunch of US equipment we left for the Iraq army.I had to look up these ISIS people...
Lol, wtf? I didn't know they made such big gains.
Jon Armdog
Member
Both of these statements are ridiculous and not rooted in reality.
They do perfectly illustrate the dumb ass Suni-Shia dynamic that drives a lot of the shit in the Middle East though.
Wait.... so kids go to these ISIS people, say "Hey, we like the cut of your jib, we want to join you", and then ISIS says "Sure, we'd love to have you. First though, come over here and put your head on this block"?
That's not right.
We wouldn't have no oil. In fact, the primary importer of oil into the United States is actually Canada.
The US receives most of its oil from non-OPEC countries. We also produce enough oil in the US that we actually export it.
Would we take a hit? Yes, and it would hurt. But if we totally cut off contact with the OPEC nations, we would still have oil flowing in.
It's been going on for a while. Now it's just slightly more obvious.
Darkangel
Member
Oil sands expansion and the fracking revolution mean we'll be seeing a dramatic East-to-West shift when it comes to energy production. The United States is on course to becoming the largest oil producing nation in the world. OPEC can still manipulate prices while their supplies last, but the future of oil production is in the Americas.
Western energy independence (should it come about) could have a radical effect on world politics.
dapperbandit
Banned
One of the reasons I find it difficult to agree with the environmentalist stance on fracking.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
The basis for the breakthrough already exists. Graphene
Just need gov't funding and keep the oil companies away from sweeping it under the rug...
I'm ready to purchase an EV, just waiting for one to come out that will get 350+ miles to the charge while using the AC and radio and shit
I don't entirely disagree with their stance because my understanding is that we can do fracking much cleaner than we do it now. I just don't want it to continue being a shortsighted wild west and in a couple of decades we realize that the chemicals cause severe illnesses and water tables are completely damaged.
Well let's not go crazy here, it's somewhat demoractic. That said your point is basically right. The majority of the Middle East is just not yet ready for democracy, you can't jus drop democracy on people and think it will solve all the problems. The US has a democracy and it took a Civil War to eventually sort out all of our problems. In order to have a proper functioning democracy you need at the very least an educated populace who are caable of having a tolerance towards minorities and differing viewpoints and of course faith in the government that is elected. This foundation is simply not found in most Middle East countries where education is low and tolerance is equated with apostasy. Eygpt was a perfect represenation of this, everyone was fine with democracy until it resulted in the election of someone that some people didn't like.
Earthstrike
Member
Another Caliphate you say? Sounds like an assassination is in order.
I read two days ago on CNN.com that Obama announced a 500 million USD aid for...
rebels attacking Syria right now. The same party that gave birth to Al-Nusra and ISIS.
Jon Armdog
Member
Yeah, you're right on there. It's very frustrating to watch.
Its pretty obvious whats going on
speculawyer
Member
Yeah we only get trivial amounts from that region. However, if the oil stopped flowing from there then prices would skyrocket everywhere since it is a global fungible commodity.
And you know, that might actually be a good thing albeit painful. We are too addicted to an expensive dirty climate harming substance from volatile parts of the world.
(Avatar quote)
speculawyer
Member
This is sadly true. Some people will view such a sentiment as being racist. But it has little to do with race. It has more to do with fundamentalist religion and intolerance.
CHEEZMO
Obsidian fan
Given that said rebels are in a state of open warfare with IS it makes sense.
He's too focused on his iPhone's poker game.
Also, this is one of the worst case scenarios right now.
Exactly, although I would also add in "Time" as a final reason. What a mean is that we all live in the year "2014" but in reality many countries, especially third world countries are living in a different time period. They may have access to all the technological advances of the 21st century but they are stuck socially and culturally in the past. However, this is mostly the result of European meddling and the resulting collapse of the Ottoman Empire. It's why I'm not appalled so much when you hear about rampant corrpution in India or some other developing nation or why China is so bad when it comes to pollution.
One simply has to look back at US history for comparison, corruption was rampant in politics from our inception boiling over in the 19th Century (Tamany Hall). We also had tons of pollution as a result of the Industrial Revolution, sexism, racism, lack of government oversight in labor relations, virtually no workers rights, no public education, etc. Eventually we have fixed a majority of these problems but it took over a hundred years. Now, compare that to a country like India which gained independence less than 70 years ago, you can't expect them to be this shining beacon comparable to American values in a country that has only recently been in charge of its destiny.
The same is true with the Middle East, in time they will eventually develop and become accepting of modern societal values. But, it won't be overnight, and there will probably be a few wars and revolutions before it is all sorted out. Now, could the US intervene and make Iraq or a similar country a thriving democracy? Most likely yes but the cost and investment would be too high for many of us to stomach especially whenmnay consider it not our problem. Without the threat of nuclear war from the Soviets and the spread of communism the long term occupation and development of nations has lost its appeal in the US. No one really wants to have to occupy and protect Iraq for 50 years and beyond.
There's many workarounds for this. Some have suggested license fees, tag fees, sales fees on vehicles, tolls and so forth.
It's hardcore tribalism and intolerance far more than religion... Kurds and Sunnis have the same religion but that doesn't matter. Kurds are one tribe, Sunnis are another, Shias are a third. The Middle East really is the original Balkans, you have communities of different people scattered across in differing concentrations who historically just left each other alone but when the concept of nations were dropped onto the regions with little advance preparation suddenly one of the communities get overlord power over everyone else and the slow motion shit show and power struggle begins.
Sure Saudis play up the religion card and some of them believe it, but really their revulsion comes from the fact that they have a significant Shia population that just so happens to be living over their oil fields that they need to keep suppressed and religion is just a difference to play up to flame the hatred. Against Kurds ethnicity is used instead.
speculawyer
Member
Yes . . . tribalism is the word I should have used. But that said, it is drawn along various lines that can be ethic, religious, sectarian, etc. . . . Sunni/Shia split, Kurd ethnic split, various Sunni interpretations split, etc.
speculawyer
Member
That's a trivial problem . . . for now just charge a $100/year 'road use fee' for EVs that is paid during annual registration. Eventually, a more complex miles-driven system can be developed but right now such a system would cost more than it would bring in.
The gas tax itself is a problem right now . . . we have not raised it since 1993 and that means the gas tax has been effectively dropping for decades due to inflation. The Federal highway fund is pretty much bankrupt.
- Status