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It legit feels like we’re coming to the end of “Gaming” as it has existed the past 30+ years

Evil Calvin

Afraid of Boobs
It's going to reregulate itself. Indies have, and will, be more popular. There will be growth of the AA B-tier games and studios, Even publishers will scale back a bit (like Capcom with Kunitsu- Gami). There will still be blockbuster games but that won't be enough to carry the publishers. They need to ditch cloud based gaming as the go-to gaming option and put GAAS in the rear view mirror....or at lease make it a supplemental release and not an all-in release for a studio.
 
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Skelterz

Member
Case in point, I just logged onto PlayAsia and bought 2 physical Switch games for the price of one over hyped, under developed, and overpriced AAA game. I bought Mameda no Bakeru, a Ganbare Goemon/Mystical Ninja spiritual successor from Good-Feel, and the sequel/remake of Shadow of the Ninja Reborn from Natsume Atari. I will also buy a digital version of this on Steam.

As a bonus note, I am a huge fan of the Japanese developed Rastan game by Taito, and I'll be buying Volgarr the Viking 2, and Abathor on Steam today.

There's too much goodness out there from all genres of games, from big and small publishers alike to even have time to play. OP needs to be awakened along with anybody else that agrees with him.

So simple so true we are as gods.
 

Humdinger

Member
OP, personally I find some relief in the AA/indies, but if you don't see anything there you like, I'd suggest returning to older AAA games. For instance, there is plenty in the PS1, 2, 3, and 4 catalog, and in the original Xbox and Xbox 360 catalog to enjoy.
 
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Laptop1991

Member
I don't think it's the end of gaming but i agree with the Op's point's, best game this year for me is Fallout London, a free mod conversion made in the way games use to be made which says it all imo, as for the AA or indies, if they can get to the quality and level of the late 2000's or the early 2010+ years of gaming, then i would be fine with that.
 

Hypereides

Gold Member
I kind of share the same opinion although I am still disappointed in the gaming this generation. It kind of started when Japan Studios was shut down and made me realize people in general don't seek out more niche games with great quality. Despite supporting these games for over a decade, I have always felt like most of the gaming discussions fell towards the most mainstream AAA titles while they complained about how gaming is horrible. Anytime I would talk about AA or even smaller AAA titles, people would be quickly dismissive.

On the other hand, I think people are holding up every AA/indie game on a pedestal it doesn't necessarily deserve. A lot of the AA/indie space can fall into the same trend chasing and safe ideas of AAA games.
When talking about AAA games, people conveniently leave out well received ones. The whole gaming discourse is a mess.

I am really enjoying Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown. It is frustrating seeing all the hate towards the game despite the discourse about Ubisoft games being the same. It has a great developer with a great track record, has Gareth Choker (Ori composer) as one of the composers, is very gameplay oriented with a decently presented story, and has great reviews. I wonder how many gamers will buy something like Kunitsu Gami?

The general gamer is very apprehensive of new ideas. Everything is labeled under gimmick or strange.
I kinda get where you're coming from with the "putting AA/indie on a pedestal" notion. Sure, some AA and indies aren't exactly super original either or straight up derivative some times. However, they are still a leaps better alternative option compared to the current AAA output imo. AA and indie are in this developing phase where they're slowly making headway towards incrementally bigger budgets. AA is encroaching on the low end of AAA budgets which hopefully will give them more elbow room. I'd rather support promising studios like these and watch them grow while learning from the past mistakes and transgressions of AAA legacy studios.

Speaking of "Everything being labelled under a gimmick or strange"; That is funny. I think that's what used to be "driving" gameplay evolution forward imo. I'd argue that "gimmicks" had a critical role in pushing the boundaries of gameplay/tech advancements as we know it. Without "gimmicks" we wouldn't have some of the genres we see today.

I'm not really sure when this notion started, but, at some point, "gimmick" got this weird redefinition as some derogatory term (it may have emerged from the gaming press) for anything that diverged from the norm. Anything that tried something out of the ordinary, which required a bit of study, in the recent decade was written off as "gimmicky". I recall a time when the gaming community used to be more open minded towards new ideas that might've appeared "strange" or "gimmicky". This closed mindedness has consequently lead to stagnation of development in unique and interesting gameplay. Its pretty clear in AAA.
 
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MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Games from 10-15 years ago are better then most games being put out today. There are only a few games worth buying in the current era.

I am enjoying my replay of Bravely Default and Bravely Second very much.

And while Dragon's Dogma 2 felt empty and hollow. Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen is magical and timeless.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
The OP to an extent is right, games are not allowed to fail these days if they do it means curtains for that studio, the fact that we can't even get games like Blur/Split Second no competition in the soccer game scene (people seem to forget how Konami treated their loyal P.E.S fans like crap and gave the world e-football..) nobody willing to make an Outrun, Panzer Dragoon, Desert Strike, again with Konami trying to relive the glory days of 2004 with the new Metal Gear because they know they would struggle to make a part 6 as good as that game...you can't even get a decent 007 game today either...so the industry maybe "fine" but it's missing/neglecting some great genre's....(another title that comes to mind is Motorstorm)
 

Ozriel

M$FT
There is absolutely nothing wrong with gaming overall. Trends change, and people need to understand this.

There is something wrong with people not realizing they can simply play something else instead of wailing about how the upcoming Ubisoft or EA game doesn’t appeal to you.

Games from 10-15 years ago are better then most games being put out today. There are only a few games worth buying in the current era.

There were shite games 10-15 years ago too.
 

Ozriel

M$FT
The OP to an extent is right, games are not allowed to fail these days if they do it means curtains for that studio, the fact that we can't even get games like Blur/Split Second no competition in the soccer game scene (people seem to forget how Konami treated their loyal P.E.S fans like crap and gave the world e-football..) nobody willing to make an Outrun, Panzer Dragoon, Desert Strike, again with Konami trying to relive the glory days of 2004 with the new Metal Gear because they know they would struggle to make a part 6 as good as that game...you can't even get a decent 007 game today either...so the industry maybe "fine" but it's missing/neglecting some great genre's....(another title that comes to mind is Motorstorm)

Armored core was just last year. You complain about Desert Strike, but someone made Chorvs and Star Wars Squadrons.

There’s an 007 game in the works, an Indiana Jones game coming out relatively soon and tons of AA FPS games.

We’ve just had a new College Football game for the first time in ages, and there’s no shortage of platform games showing up in recent years, including a well received AA Prince of Persia game.

These games exist. You guys just skip them
 
Games from 10-15 years ago are better then most games being put out today. There are only a few games worth buying in the current era.

I am enjoying my replay of Bravely Default and Bravely Second very much.

And while Dragon's Dogma 2 felt empty and hollow. Dragon's Dogma Dark Arisen is magical and timeless.
agreed. & it's only been over the last half-dozen years or so that i've noticed the weird phenomenon of so many sequels to big games actually ending up being inferior to the originals. which's pretty miserable...

There were shite games 10-15 years ago too.
well, there've always been shite games. but, back in 2010, there was also mass effect 2, red dead redemption, super mario galaxy, god of war 3, & bayonetta. so, there's that...
 
For all corporate greed and their media allies, it’s the consumer who decides with their buying habits. Make your own mind up , don’t listen to media bloggers and influencers, they are purely self serving aiding the publishers.
 

KXVXII9X

Member
I kinda get where you're coming from with the "putting AA/indie on a pedestal" notion. Sure, some AA and indies aren't exactly super original either or straight up derivative some times. However, they are still a leaps better alternative option compared to the current AAA output imo. AA and indie are in this developing phase where they're slowly making headway towards incrementally bigger budgets. AA is encroaching on the low end of AAA budgets which hopefully will give them more elbow room. I'd rather support promising studios like these and watch them grow while learning from the past mistakes and transgressions of AAA legacy studios.

Speaking of "Everything being labelled under a gimmick or strange"; That is funny. I think that's what used to be "driving" gameplay evolution forward imo. I'd argue that "gimmicks" had a critical role in pushing the boundaries of gameplay/tech advancements as we know it. Without "gimmicks" we wouldn't have some of the genres we see today.

I'm not really sure when this notion started, but, at some point, "gimmick" got this weird redefinition as some derogatory term (it may have emerged from the gaming press) for anything that diverged from the norm. Anything that tried something out of the ordinary, which required a bit of study, in the recent decade was written off as "gimmicky". I recall a time when the gaming community used to be more open minded towards new ideas that might've appeared "strange" or "gimmicky". This closed mindedness has consequently lead to stagnation of development in unique and interesting gameplay. Its pretty clear in AAA.
I couldn't agree with every word of this more!

Despite my frustrations with Indies and AA, most of the games I buy are in this category and still look forward to seeing what's new even if it isn't exactly my thing. My favorite games this year are Unicorn Overlord, Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown, and Animal Well.

I also notice that people are less open about new ideas, and I agree with how these ideas were the driving force of gameplay evolution. I saw so many changes with just the controller like adding analog joysticks, 4 face buttons, triggers and bumpers, rumble, touch bar, motion control, touch screen, gyro, and so on. It is one reason I still appreciate Nintendo while having my fair share of issues with them. They still try to push out new ideas even if they don't always work out. Modern gaming for the most part has been similar since the PS3 era in terms of gameplay.
 

Gamerguy84

Member
I kind of agree with this. I'm sure it's just because my interest has went down increasingly over the last few years but there are other factors.

Mobile finally taking its toll, cloud coming on strong. I've only used psnow but it's been very impressive. The cost of making graphically impressive games, gaas gaining in popularity.

I do believe gaming will continue, just not how I grew up with it.
 
well, there've always been shite games. but, back in 2010, there was also mass effect 2, red dead redemption, super mario galaxy, god of war 3, & bayonetta. so, there's that...
speaking of which: what major titles released in 2024, other than maybe shadow of the erdtree (which is actually dlc), would anyone put in the same class as these 5 games? personally, i can't name 1...
 
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ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
As for 00s - it's a weird decade as at the start of it - 'AAA' didn't even exist - so it's a bit difficult to classify what was what until we get to 2004 or thereabouts.
Really dude? Lol. Lmao even.

AAA definitely existed; ie near to the top end of what the game industry could produce at the time.

You mentioned Ico. That was absolutely AAA.
 

MarkMe2525

Gold Member
The homogenization of gameplay mechanics greatly adds to this feeling. Games have become too big to take risks, and while I wouldn't describe it as "destroying" the industry, it for sure feels bland. There are products out there that are worth our while, but they become harder and harder to find with all the crap we have to sift through. I guess this is true for every medium that becomes mainstream.

Luckily, we have tens of thousands of games from the past that are easy to access. VR is also becoming more of a real platform to find new and interesting ideas. I probably spend 80% of my gaming time on these platforms because of this.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
AAA definitely existed; ie near to the top end of what the game industry could produce at the time.
If we want to be pedantic - the first real PR use of the term was back in June 2000 - but it certainly wasn't in 'active' use during that period.
Obviously - by the classification there were AAA projects prior to it (FF games in particular), but a lot of the 'top end that game industry could produce' in the 90ies was done on shoestring budgets, so it objectively doesn't belong in AAA, even if it was used earlier.

You mentioned Ico. That was absolutely AAA.
The game needed about 100k sales to make back its development budget - not unlike say - Dark Cloud or several other launch window titles.
If you bend over to make that fit - then this gen has had more 'AAA' releases in the last 3 years than all the generations before it - combined.

Seriously though - if ICO wasn't Sony published - people here would be labelling it a budget Indie game and half of the forum would refuse to even try it because it's 'low budget artstyle' or whatever other excuses are used nowadays if a game doesn't look like it cost 300M to produce.
 

RAIDEN1

Member
Armored core was just last year. You complain about Desert Strike, but someone made Chorvs and Star Wars Squadrons.

There’s an 007 game in the works, an Indiana Jones game coming out relatively soon and tons of AA FPS games.

We’ve just had a new College Football game for the first time in ages, and there’s no shortage of platform games showing up in recent years, including a well received AA Prince of Persia game.

These games exist. You guys just skip them
Yeah but at the the rate things are going we'll be lucky to get 007 by 2026, there is no alternative currently, even Bloodstone probably didn't take that long to develop...look at Alone in the Dark a classic franchise deserved better but back to being dormant, Deus Ex will take the fans to revive that franchise...there is no denying the lack of competition in the soccer scene, College football doesn't even come into it...there is no modern day Blur/Split Second/Motorstorm...where did games like Spec Ops: The line go? Chorvs sold poorly so that put paid to a sequel or spin off happening anytime soon...hell we don't even get games like Full Throttle anymore..
 

Stooky

Member
yeah another doom post, yes gaming has changed so much in the last 30 year, yet there are classics being made every year.
 

hyperbertha

Member
Rocksteady - fell to gaas
Arkane - fell to gaas
Bungie - fell to gaas
Epic - fell to gaas
Bethesda - fell to gaas
Naighty dog - almost fell to gaas
Rockstar - trying to be gaas
Ubisoft - feels like gaas
Insomniac - fell to Marvel ip
Eidos - fell to Marvel ip
Firaxis - fell to Marvel ip
Bioware - fell to woke
Blizzard - fell to woke
Volition - fell to woke

Hmm it's almost as if op has a point :unsure:
 

hyperbertha

Member
The industry is bigger than it ever was. Gaming is no longer something that only nerds, geeks or little boys enjoy. The average target audience has expanded a lot, mainly because gaming is something a lot of people simply do not let go as they grow up. It's not like G.I.Joe action figures where you stop playing once you hit puberty (or sooner). As a result, the audience expanded. And as the audience expanded, so did the industry. Dev teams became publishers, publishers became companies, companies became corporations. Budgets got higher, and the games multiplied.

Like ...

a LOT.

There are a LOT of games right now - old, new, niche, mainstream - it's very difficult for a publisher/developer to make their game stand out to the gamer / consumer in order to ensure they'll make a profit.

And that's where marketing stopped being an afterthought and became one of the most important aspects of a video game. Games are no longer made based on an idea a developer has - games are now made based on what the marketing teams say that will sell. As a result, a lot of games which are being made are not the games the devs want to make. And THAT is what is harming the industry, because when you take risks and create something new, you have a chance of creating a trendsetter.

You get Street Fighter II and the fighting game genre is established globally. You get Doom, which established the FPS on the western market. Final Fantasy VII made the West aware of JRPGs and even had a few western devs attempt to mimic it. You get King's Quest and graphic adventures become a thing and then you make Day of the Tentacle and point and click adventure games became a thing. You get Dune II - The Battle of Arakis and the Real Time Strategy games were created. You get Resident Evil and the Survival Horror genre is established, and then you got Resident Evil 4 and the shoulder-view shooter became a thing. Game after game after game after game would take risks, which would mean failure, but could also mean a new genre, a new trendsetter.

Which was the last trendsetter? Demon's Souls creating the Soulslikes, and Dark Souls making it a thing? And when was that? Almost fifteen years ago? Can you grasp the notion that the last time we had a game which established a genre was 15 years ago, and that was because (based on what I've heard online) the stars were aligned in the most bizarre way possible? When an AAA game costs 50-200 millions to make today, how many chances can you get? How much can you afford to risk being a failure instead of the next trendsetter?

The industry has become overbloated with content and overblown budgets which are hurting creativity. Developers are no longer allowed to take risks, and those who do create games which look like they were six gaming generations ago. And I don't see that changing anytime soon, because video games are right now the #1 entertainment industry on the planet, but I think that slowly the bubble is beginning to burst. AAA games are flooding the market, indie games are flooding the market, there's just too much content with barely anything interesting to someone who was gaming for years. It's just ... too much.

I think there's just too many games who look the same, play the same, feel the same. Story tropes have been overused, level design is almost identical, the industry is slowly eating itself by turning what was once an eccentric little restaurant into a soul-less fast food company which is not interested in giving you a meal you'll remember for days to come, but just wants to take your money by giving you something which barely resembles food. 'Cause otherwise they'll be out of business.

But I am someone who has been gaming since '87. Younger people are probably a lot less cynical than me.
Good post. People thinking the gaming industry is healthier than ever are just put of their minds. Yes Japan exists, and minus the fall of square enix and konami, they still seem to be going strong. But op absolutely is right atleast as far as western landscape is concerned. Indie games are fine, but too much of them are pixel art style games and not like the aa games of old. When was the last indie game that looked like vagrant story? They can't even seem to achieve GTA 3 levels of production quality.
 

nemiroff

Gold Member
No Way Commando GIF by 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment


It's on the contrary a great time to be interested in games. Been doing this for more than four decades and the current diversity and flexibility of this hobby is utterly astonishing to me.
 
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StueyDuck

Member
There's definitely a reason why I stare at a screen of new games on steam, browse for a second and then just turn on some tv.

I know it's sacrilege to some on here to even think that gaming now isn't really all that exciting, it's become a rather corporate stale husk of reused ideas.

I will say console gaming at least tends to lock you in, I don't know why but I feel more compelled to complete a game on console than I do on PC even though I enjoy the PC experience more due to the higher framerate and fidelity.
 

justiceiro

Marlboro: Other M
Yeah, good. Gaming has been shackled by gamers for way to long. Let me paint you a picture of what gaming will be like in 10-20 years:
  • No more physical media. Only collectors edition are physical, but they only have a code
  • Games either launch with a price tag of $100+ special edition and play one year earlier (yes, early access costs more), or a free2play. No in between.
  • Indie releases exist... In subscription services. Btw...
  • All publishers has competing subscription services for it's games and most games are exclusive to it's services.
  • Studios don't release multiple games anymore. They release one game, if it's successful, they will release endless updates (season passes really) to it and to it alone, no sequels. If the game fails, the studio closes.
  • Cutscenes don't exist anymore... Because games history only happens in cross media stuff, games only have it's multiplayer components. Small games that want to do history can't really afford to. They do comic panels at best.
  • All games are playable on mobile. Either through cloud or a port, but the mobile port always receives more support than the other ports.
  • Traditional journalism still exist... as PR agents for the publishers. They are the only ones to do long form interviews. All independent media is on TikTok and only does one question per video, I'm the lines of "what kind of sex is better than your game?"
  • You can bring your avatar to all games, but all avatars are only available through some kind of subscription
  • I have no idea what Nintendo will do, I admit that, but I bet half is theirs stuff by this time will only be available in Japan.
That's it. Remind me in 20 years, pls, ty.
 

Dacvak

No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
The gaming industry isn’t dying, but frankly I wouldn’t care if it did. There are still more 9/10 games I’ve never played than I could feasibly get through for the rest of my life.

Plus, once we see AI really take over the industry, we’re gonna see an explosion of what I’m calling “AAAI” (or Triple-A I) indie games made by really small studios.
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I will say console gaming at least tends to lock you in, I don't know why but I feel more compelled to complete a game on console than I do on PC even though I enjoy the PC experience more due to the higher framerate and fidelity.
This is a genuine detriment to PC gaming I do not see a lot of people mention here. Gaming fights for your attention amongst all the other stuff you can do on a PC and I end up watching Youtube and browsing the Internet a lot more than playing games typically because it's just attractive more to me.

whenever I turn on my Steam Deck though it's just game time
 
And I’m sorry, but I just don’t think indie studios are prepared to take up the mantle of making “professional-quality games”. I would love to believe there is space for “AA studios”, but nobody seems to really be competing in that space.
I understand this sentiment but they [indies] will because it's necessary. There's nobody else who can fill that void. Without getting too deep here, I think we're at the end of a cycle and the signs are everywhere. The money and suits are gonna dip, and when they do all this focus-tested, risk-averse, AAA slop will stop getting made.
 

Ozzie666

Member
Gaming is in a strange place right now, game development is expensive, production time is lengthy and people have expectations now for AAA/AAAA experiences. Share holders have even higher expectations on returns on their investment and upper management pay levels are completely bonkers, especially in America. This is why upscaling and AI are seen as profit saviours, the actual game and gamer are now secondary. All about maximizing profits. Lets not even discuss business decisions based on agendas and messaging which ignore your main customer base.

Is this all new? not really. It's just been magnified and becoming unsustainable in the time of Gaas and subscriptions everywhere.

Time to get back to Twisted Tales of Spike Mcfang.
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
You could throw helldivers 2 and soon to be released astrobot on there. Weird sentiment from some people on here. Feel like this year has been a return to what some people have been wanting in smaller titles, yet still complaints.
That’s internet for you, complain is all they do. They enjoy that more than actually playing games.
 

ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
If we want to be pedantic - the first real PR use of the term was back in June 2000 - but it certainly wasn't in 'active' use during that period.
Obviously - by the classification there were AAA projects prior to it (FF games in particular), but a lot of the 'top end that game industry could produce' in the 90ies was done on shoestring budgets, so it objectively doesn't belong in AAA, even if it was used earlier.
AAA today doesn't mean AAA tomorrow and vice versa. Back then, the FFs, Ray Mans and Okamis were "big budget". There was a point when Mega Man and Super Mario were AAA. All of the game's that you think were AA/mid-budget in the early 2009s were AAA at the time. The fact that they're still remembered as such indicates that.

Whether or not the word is in use, the meaning is the same: Contemporary games that are at the higher end of what the industry can produced that are poised to be commercially successful. And being commercially successful back did and could've meant low or mid 6-figure sales instead of the high 7s or low 8s we talk about today.

The game needed about 100k sales to make back its development budget - not unlike say - Dark Cloud or several other launch window titles.
If you bend over to make that fit - then this gen has had more 'AAA' releases in the last 3 years than all the generations before it - combined.
The ceiling for game sales was way lower, and so budgets and expectations were lower. Were. In the year 2000.

Seriously though - if ICO wasn't Sony published - people here would be labelling it a budget Indie game and half of the forum would refuse to even try it because it's 'low budget artstyle' or whatever other excuses are used nowadays if a game doesn't look like it cost 300M to produce.
What, in 2001? They'd be ridiculously foolish to do so. If if released as is today, different story.
 
There's more games to play than ever.

Most of it is shit.

The bangers will always be bangers, though... GTA, Zelda, Mario, RE, COD, Fallout, Elderscrolls, FF.

GAAS gets a bad rap but Fortnite is brilliant, I play it more than anything else, lately.
 

Gambit2483

Member
Nah, It's just Western gaming that has turned into crap, once it got infested with corporate greed and political feminists.

Eastern gaming is (mostly) doing just fine.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
I think I the thing that does slightly annoy me a bit about generalized complaint threads is the lack of action. If you don't like something, it's still ultimately up to you to find the fix for it. I like reading genuine harsh critical takes sometimes, but it can't just devolve into a woe is me, the industry is doomed nostalgia rant, because I think that really just means a lack of effort on your part. I like reading harsh takes from people as long as they're honest.

I'm very critical of things in the industry at times, but the difference is I don't wait for someone to fix it for me. I don't overly romanticize the past with nostalgic takes. I don't stick to one ecosystem if I don't agree with the direction its going.

I think a lot of people here don't put in any effort to experiment and find new things on their own. They play what they're told to play, and they don't like it. In a way, I do have some sympathy for that point of view because if I played what GAF and Geoff Keighley told me I should be playing, I'd be utterly miserable. You have to think for yourself and play stuff you like. You have to ignore what people insist you have to like.

P.S. I do think a lot of people are really missing the mark saying that all western games suck and only Japanese games are good. Virtually all indie games are western at this point. Japan barely has a viable indie games scene. They're dominating right now.
 

ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
I understand this sentiment but they [indies] will because it's necessary. There's nobody else who can fill that void. Without getting too deep here, I think we're at the end of a cycle and the signs are everywhere. The money and suits are gonna dip, and when they do all this focus-tested, risk-averse, AAA slop will stop getting made.
Never going to happen.
 

ByWatterson

Member
This reminds me of hearing a coworker say a few days ago, "I read 1984 this summer and I thought - oh my gawrd! This is HAPPENING."

🙄
 
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