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It legit feels like we’re coming to the end of “Gaming” as it has existed the past 30+ years

amigastar

Member
Yeah... no. This isn't true at all. Besides, a lot of what people call "indie" these days are AA sized studios with AA budgeted games.
Thats true, one example is Pithead Studios former known as Piranha Bytes. They call themselves an Indie Studio but their next game for sure wont be Meat Boy or Braid type game but rather AA Gaming.
 
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Hugare

Member
We are in August and the only AAA singleplayer game that I actually enjoyed this year was FF VII Rebirth. And I havent even finished it.

I bought an Android portable device (Odin 2) and have been revisiting "old" games on the go. Bioshock, Dishonored, Mirror's Edge, Dead Space trilogy, Assasins Creed II and etc.

And man, they dont make them like they used to. Thats not even counting games from the PS2/GC/Wii era that I'm also playing on the side, while my PS5 collects dust.

The industry is a mess right now. But life finds a way. The pendulum will swing the other side eventually.
 

Toons

Member
Rocksteady - fell to gaas
Arkane - fell to gaas
Bungie - fell to gaas
Epic - fell to gaas
Bethesda - fell to gaas
Naighty dog - almost fell to gaas
Rockstar - trying to be gaas
Ubisoft - feels like gaas
Insomniac - fell to Marvel ip
Eidos - fell to Marvel ip
Firaxis - fell to Marvel ip
Bioware - fell to woke
Blizzard - fell to woke
Volition - fell to woke

Hmm it's almost as if op has a point :unsure:

Not a single comment about whether the games have good gameplay, graphics, stories, anything... just gaas=bad game and woke = [insert personal grievance/nonsense] = bad game?

No, he doesn't have a point and this doesn't reinforce it. It completely ifnored the things that actually make games good, for starters
 

Nickolaidas

Member
This doomsaying also lost its luster ages ago but it keeps popping up.
Yeah, paying 120 bucks upfront to play what is basically unfinished beta versions of bland games which will be completed by the devs after 12-18 months (or maybe never) just proves how utterly spoiled and pessimistic those gamers have become. "Just eat the slop and sftu, you chuds!" Seriously, can't they appreciate the pinnacle of gaming that we have been witnessing for the last eight years?
 
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I agree wholeheartedly. I was born in 1987 and witnessed much of the Golden years of gaming. Nothing in the past 5+ years compares to what came before. This isn't just limited to games though, all media is coming to an end. Quality is down across the board, and too much of a change of culture and background of those behind new content has me feeling like an 80 year old man
None of this shit is good and I can't understand the people who are okay with it. Genuinely, it all sucks and is soulless. It's been a good run and I'm sure as fuck glad I got to enjoy the best years we had, but the ride is unquestionably over.
 

ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
Can you grasp the notion that the last time we had a game which established a genre was 15 years ago, and that was because (based on what I've heard online) the stars were aligned in the most bizarre way possible?
Don't you think this is entirely because there's not as much/nearly no new ground to break now compared to when you started gaming almost 40 years ago?
 

Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
Starting your post with this is some 🤡 show shit. Listen…if you are trying to make a point about something, trying to justify what you are doing with your first line will lose readers’ respect every time. Truthfully, I didn’t even read past that. If you have to put a disclaimer on your thoughts in the first sentence, maybe you should think harder to yourself if it’s worth it, before you consider sharing your thoughts?? Idk, maybe I’m wrong 🤷‍♂️. But “I don’t want to be a negative Nancy”, but here I am being a negative Nancy, is just fucking weird to me.

Your opening line here is far shittier though, to be fair.
 
Good post. People thinking the gaming industry is healthier than ever are just put of their minds. Yes Japan exists, and minus the fall of square enix and konami, they still seem to be going strong. But op absolutely is right atleast as far as western landscape is concerned. Indie games are fine, but too much of them are pixel art style games and not like the aa games of old. When was the last indie game that looked like vagrant story? They can't even seem to achieve GTA 3 levels of production quality.
Yet. Give it time.
 

Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
If you don't think indie can take the mantle, you should play more indies

and if you think indie don't look "professional" because of lack of production values, then you are part of the problem
I think there's some truth here. The ballooning costs for games seem to mostly be about graphics, not ideas or gameplay.

Really, if people* did put more money into indie/smaller productions it could genuinely change the gaming landscape for the better.

*By people I meant customers
 
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Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Capcom recently released new unique AA game.....but no AA games are gone for good /s
share-gl.png
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Flintlock, Dungeons of Hinterberg, Kunitsu-Gami, CYGNI all dropped just within the last 30 days. All new IP, all great AA games, all priced less than full price. And that's not even counting the numerous cheaper indies, and this is just 4 weeks.
WTF are you talking about!!? Video games are DOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

/s
 
I think there's some truth here. They ballooning costs for games seem to mostly be about graphics, not ideas or gameplay.

Really, if people did put more money into indie/smaller productions it could genuinely change the gaming landscape for the better.

I dont buy that because graphics have stagnated this generation. This is the first gen in 35 years where there was no leap in visuals. Why? Publishers got greedy this gen, extending cross gen out far too long and now we're 4 years into it with very little progress to show.

People aren't ditching the ps4 ...i wonder why? Sony hasn't released a true next gen game even wtf is up with that? Maybe costs have skyrocketed because theyre trying to develop games for ps4, ps5 and a million PC configurations? Maybe mismanagement and DEI hiring is costing extra money too?
 

hyperbertha

Member
Not a single comment about whether the games have good gameplay, graphics, stories, anything... just gaas=bad game and woke = [insert personal grievance/nonsense] = bad game?

No, he doesn't have a point and this doesn't reinforce it. It completely ifnored the things that actually make games good, for starters
Gaas - usually makes games shallow, repetitive, barebones and grindy

Woke - makes the stories vomit inducing.

These two things absolutely cause a decline in the industry. Let's not pretend otherwise.
 
The type of games you are asking for are 3D action adventure/RPG games, preferably with high level production values. It's true that a lot of the studios producing those could not keep up as budgets got higher and higher and they were shut down. I have no doubt that as indie studios mature and expand their manpower, you will see more of these games. But it is inherently an expensive genre to produce, even with indie production values. You also run the risk of being compared to AAA games and people asking why they should play a game that's similar but looks worse.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
The type of games you are asking for are 3D action adventure/RPG games, preferably with high level production values. It's true that a lot of the studios producing those could not keep up as budgets got higher and higher and they were shut down. I have no doubt that as indie studios mature and expand their manpower, you will see more of these games. But it is inherently an expensive genre to produce, even with indie production values. You also run the risk of being compared to AAA games and people asking why they should play a game that's similar but looks worse.
We're supposedly getting Hyper Light Breaker this year.

images


We definitely are well into the era of 3D indies on par with PS3 / PS4 stuff. Their last game from 2021 is fantastic, Solar Ash.

JNqLJHb.gif


This is western gaming, American indie team putting out stuff that looks like Gravity Rush.
 
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Nickolaidas

Member
Don't you think this is entirely because there's not as much/nearly no new ground to break now compared to when you started gaming almost 40 years ago?
Perhaps. But I find it really hard to believe that the industry was making new genres left and right in the 90s and basically covered everything.

Don't you think the more probably scenario is that games are so much expensive to make nowadays (AAA, anyway), to the point that a single title failing means the abolition of the dev team which made it, causing them to make games which are as safe and risk-averse as possible?
 

64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Yeah, paying 120 bucks upfront to play what is basically unfinished beta versions of bland games which will be completed by the devs after 12-18 months (or maybe never) just proves how utterly spoiled and pessimistic those gamers have become. "Just eat the slop and sftu, you chuds!" Seriously, can't they appreciate the pinnacle of gaming that we have been witnessing for the last eight years?
"Wow, this restraunt chain I ate at a while ago used to be real nice but now it's pretty mediocre. I guess that means all restraunts suck and food is terrible now!"

Nah, let me do you one better

"Gee, many of these big chain restraunts have low quality ingredients and food, and what they make just doesn't taste good at all. I guess all restraunts suck and we are in a terrible time for food!"
 
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BlackTron

Member
Even if things aren't completely doom and gloom, there are still many changes from the old gaming landscape that in aggregate make it less fun than in the past. It's not that gaming is dying -just changing, and we liked it better the old way. Some changes were inevitable, like diminishing returns. Others, not so much.
 

ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
Perhaps. But I find it really hard to believe that the industry was making new genres left and right in the 90s and basically covered everything.
Moore's Law of game design. In the 90s we transitioned from 2D to 3D. That alone would trigger the rapid creation of new genres. That type of quantum leap isn't happening again.

Don't you think the more probably scenario is that games are so much expensive to make nowadays (AAA, anyway), to the point that a single title failing means the abolition of the dev team which made it, causing them to make games which are as safe and risk-averse as possible?
I do not. Because the other side, the supposedly innovative and creative "indie" scene where there's (again, supposedly) far less at risk is not producing new things either.

Most of the stuff that gets made there is some variety of farming sim ripping off Animal Crossing or Stardew Valley (which was a ripoff of Harvest Moon), nostalgia-bait 2D platformers trying to recreate the vibe of 90s mascots, narrative adventure games aping 90s classics, action-adventure games aping 90s-2000s cult-hits at a somehow smaller scale and budget-artstyle, or smaller scale versions of more contemporary games with a budget-artstyle. Not accounting for the endless stream of roguelikes, puzzle games, and genuine walking simulators that hasn't stopped for more than 10 years.
 
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Nickolaidas

Member
Moore's Law of game design. In the 90s we transitioned from 2D to 3D. That alone would trigger the rapid creation of new genres. That type of quantum leap isn't happening again.


I do not. Because the other side, the supposedly innovative and creative "indie" scene where there's (again, supposedly) far less at risk is not producing new things either.

Most of the stuff that gets made there is some variety of farming sim ripping off Animal Crossing or Stardew Valley (which was a ripoff of Harvest Moon), nostalgia-bait 2D platformers trying to recreate the vibe of 90s mascots, narrative adventure games aping 90s classics, action-adventure games aping 90s-2000s cult-hits at a somehow smaller scale and budget-artstyle, or smaller scale versions of more contemporary games with a budget-artstyle. Not accounting for the endless stream of roguelikes, puzzle games, and genuine walking simulators that hasn't stopped for more than 10 years.
Fair points. Perhaps it's a tech issue and they need more tools to make a new concept. Perhaps A.I. will be able to make player/game interactions like never before, creating new genres. Or some other technology.

I still think it's a matter of ideas, though. Sometimes the trendsetter is made by slightly altering an already established formula. Alone in the Dark was an adventure/puzzle game and with just a few alterations to the concept, Resident Evil created the Survival Horror genre. Demon's Souls basically took the hack and slash concept and added a stamina bar, as well as a death/punish system. So it's not so much that the tech was evolving, as much as a visionary having an idea which became really catchy and effective.

We just need more visionaries.

Also, there is a solid chance that a lot of indies have original ideas but get buried under a tonne of crap/mediocre/stale games and no one notices them. Or, they are patient zero and need a visionary to take their idea and expand on it to create a trendsetter.
 

buenoblue

Member
I think gaming has never been better 🤷‍♂️. Between VR, steam deck, PS5 and PC I feel like I have never had so much choice. Plus I upgraded my TV to a 65 QD OLED and full Atmos sound system and playing games on PC at 120fps 4k is so good. Finally the fidelity of games is amazing

I've just got a racing sim setup last week as well and been having fun with that.

Yeah every game might not be to my exact taste but there is plenty out there for everyone.
 

Guilty_AI

Member
Which was the last trendsetter? Demon's Souls creating the Soulslikes, and Dark Souls making it a thing? And when was that? Almost fifteen years ago? Can you grasp the notion that the last time we had a game which established a genre was 15 years ago, and that was because (based on what I've heard online) the stars were aligned in the most bizarre way possible? When an AAA game costs 50-200 millions to make today, how many chances can you get? How much can you afford to risk being a failure instead of the next trendsetter?
I'd argue the last trendsetter was Factorio back in 2016 (with full release in 2020).

DUSK also kickstarted a huge wave of boomer shooters with modernized elements, but i'd argue that was more due to a growth in the DOOM/Quake modding community. I guess Prey also began a trend of re-imagining/modernization of immersive sims. I just don't consider either of these two much of trendsetters because they've been more about reviving old genres and remaking them with modern tech and game design knowledge. So Factorio it is.
 
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I realize these types of games are generally not what people who make these threads are looking for, so I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. But I was interested to get an overview of what indie games have launched this year and been positively received by the gaming community. So here is a list of some of them. I didn't include early access games but there were some heavy hitters like Hades 2 and No Rest For The Wicked.

 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
Most of the stuff that gets made there is some variety of farming sim ripping off Animal Crossing or Stardew Valley (which was a ripoff of Harvest Moon),
Stardew Valley is the one game you can properly think of ripping off that genre lol


nostalgia-bait 2D platformers trying to recreate the vibe of 90s mascots, narrative adventure games aping 90s classics, action-adventure games aping 90s-2000s cult-hits at a somehow smaller scale and budget-artstyle, or smaller scale versions of more contemporary games with a budget-artstyle. Not accounting for the endless stream of roguelikes, puzzle games, and genuine walking simulators that hasn't stopped for more than 10 years.
I think you need to realize that compared to the AAA space.... that is creativity. None of the genres you have listed have been properly represented in AAA for 15-20 years. When's the last time Ubisoft published a 3D Platformer or Stealth game?
Have any of these big publishers ever even made an adventure game or a visual novel at all? An RTS? Rhythm game not trying to be exactly like dead and buried guitar hero?

You say you know the indie scene and don't think it's that innovative then cite ONE "ripoff" game that has basically surpassed it's predecessor in popularity and polish- WAY more people know about Stardew Valley than Harvest Moon. Such a ripoff amirite?

Indies will give you the genres that typically show up in AAA and then proceed to give you more stuff. It's way more diverse than AAA, and this is a fact.
 
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Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Whether or not the word is in use, the meaning is the same: Contemporary games that are at the higher end of what the industry can produced that are poised to be commercially successful.
Ok let's get this out of the way first - that's not what 'AAA' ever stood for (and it certainly isn't what company PR ever used it for). It represented high-production values / blockbuster budgets (in large part, a reflection of industry's continued obsession with hollywood, but admittedly, it grew beyond that since term's inception).
Which is also a reason the terminology only really becomes relevant when such productions started being made in mid 90ies (or became common place in the 00s when the term was actually coined).
Now sure - you can head-canonize this however you like - but in terms of production values - a 'big' game like Super Mario was not differentiated from an 'indie' production in anything other than marketing in the early 90ies. Yes of course there are objective quality differences - but that wasn't because one team had 100x the $ to spend - they were simply much better at spending roughly the same amount.
That is in stark contrast to R* spending 500M - 1B on their next game while the average indie competitor is quite literally working with 100x+ less. And this delta was just as pronounced in the 00s - a 10M$ AAA was relative to 100k$ budget productions on the other end of the scale. The absolute numbers grew - but the relative deltas were already there.

Which brings me to the point
What, in 2001? They'd be ridiculously foolish to do so. If if released as is today, different story.
Yes in 2001. ICO was built on that sub 1M budget - like many similar scoped games of the time. I didn't compare it to Dark Cloud by accident - both were new IPs backed by major publishers, both had a core team of about 5-10 people, and both made their money back at 100k sales, so they never needed to compete with 'AAA's of the time for mindshare.
Of course the modern equivalents have shifted a bit - but it's more of a spectrum now. We get things like Dave The Diver or TMNT Reshelled, but also original Senua or Plague's tale (which are real 'AAs' of the past decade) but I know that'll trigger a bunch of people.

All of the game's that you think were AA/mid-budget in the early 2009s were AAA at the time.
Early 00s had multi-million sales ambitions for big IPs (with top end going towards 10M). AAs simply didn't aim for that, just like they don't aim for 10-100M range today. Doesn't mean it never happens though (see Helldivers 2).
 

AmuroChan

Member
I think maybe something else is going on in your life that’s causing this doom and gloom view you’re trying to project onto the gaming industry. If you have access to all the major gaming platforms, I don’t see how you can objectively say there are no great games being made these days. As for games journalism, they still exist. Perhaps just not in the legacy spaces that you used to go to years ago.
 

wolffy66

Member
If you've been gaming for a long time it definitely starts to feel like you're not seeing anything really new. But I think some of that is just that's there's soo many games out there. It's impossible to experience all of them. I'm not sure there's really a solution other than just trial and error.
 

wolffy66

Member
Starting your post with this is some 🤡 show shit. Listen…if you are trying to make a point about something, trying to justify what you are doing with your first line will lose readers’ respect every time. Truthfully, I didn’t even read past that. If you have to put a disclaimer on your thoughts in the first sentence, maybe you should think harder to yourself if it’s worth it, before you consider sharing your thoughts?? Idk, maybe I’m wrong 🤷‍♂️. But “I don’t want to be a negative Nancy”, but here I am being a negative Nancy, is just fucking weird to me.
Toxic and lame
 

Yoda

Member
The aging gamers (probably most of this forum) aren't being replaced by younger gamers at the rate they used to. The economics of the AAA space most likely will break down within the next decade if something doesn't change (hard to imagine games being MORE monetized than they already are). I think the only thing that can keep it going (not fix mind you) is if genAI tools allow for smaller teams to make games with less capital. That'd allow the games we've come to expect to continue being profitable for a time. The harsh reality is that if the younger gen doesn't want to buy console games in the same volume the older gen did, than game companies are going to adapt to that change... by investing more in mobile.
 
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ProtoByte

Weeb Underling
Demon's Souls basically took the hack and slash concept and added a stamina bar, as well as a death/punish system. So it's not so much that the tech was evolving, as much as a visionary having an idea which became really catchy and effective.
Well, I don't think Demon’s Souls is a new genre, or that Miyazaki is a visionary.

I mean, the fact that you're equating Resident Evil (and I never played AITD, so I don't know how big the distinction is or whether RE actually made survival horror) creating a genre and adding a previously and long established mechanic being put into a previously and long established genre that usually wasn't there would suggest that there is a plateau on doing "new" things.

Or, they are patient zero and need a visionary to take their idea and expand on it to create a trendsetter.
I'd argue the last trendsetter was Factorio back in 2016 (with full release in 2020).
Why not Overwatch? PUBG/Fortnite? Breath of The Wild? Baldur's Gate

None of these are games I either like or think do new things, but they set trends or at least made a design splash in the proposed conversation of it.
Being a trendsetter and doing something new are not synonymous.

I think you need to realize that compared to the AAA space.... that is creativity.
No, it isn't. It's just stuff that appeals to your biases, and you get to hide behind the word "creativity" because people think low budget/not currently main of mainstream is "creative". That word does not have a relative meaning.
 
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