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[pasterpl]

Correspondingly, the XO generation sold 2/3 of the 360, and the Series generation will be lucky to sell 2/3 of the XO generation.

BIG LOL at this. They are already around 1/2 of XO sales with series consoles.

As of August 2024, lifetime unit sales of Xbox One consoles in North America reached nearly 33 million, while in Europe, lifetime unit sales surpassed 12.8 million. In total, nearly 58 million Xbox One units have been sold worldwide as of August 2024.

Xbox One lifetime unit sales worldwide 2024 | Statista

As of August 2024, lifetime unit sales of Xbox One consoles in North America reached nearly 33 million, while in Europe, lifetime unit sales surpassed 12.8 million.

www.statista.com

Microsoft's best-selling Xbox video game console is the Xbox 360, with almost 86 million units shipped. The company's newest consoles, the Xbox Series X and S, have sold a combined 27.7 million units as of February 2024

Microsoft Xbox lifetime sales worldwide 2023 | Statista

Microsoft's best-selling Xbox video game console is the Xbox 360, with almost 86 million units shipped.

www.statista.com

 

[RetroGamingUK]

None of those are exclusives, therefore they do not drive new customers to Xbox. Being multi-platform, they only cater to the existing customers who've already bought an Xbox, and that group is consistently shrinking.

The core of Nintendo's success has been very successful first party exclusive games. The core of PlayStation's success has been very successful first party exclusive games. Xbox has not had very successful first party exclusive games for the last 10+ years. Correspondingly, the XO generation sold 2/3 of the 360, and the Series generation will be lucky to sell 2/3 of the XO generation.

Just having good multi-platform games and a reliable console is not enough to compete in the current market. They have to have a steady flow of highly rated and exciting exclusive games to have a successful console. Given the last ten years, there's no reason to think that's in their future. In fact, there's every reason to think Xbox as a brand will continue to move towards the third party publisher business model, and the Xbox hardware will become a side business that MS no longer subsidizes.

Yeah I don’t think the mainstream consumer looking to buy a console will choose Xbox because the parent company just happens to own COD.

They’ll just see COD available in the shop for both platforms and notice one platform has a lot more quality titles than the other.

There’s literally no reason for anyone who’s buying a console for the first time to choose Xbox Series over PS5. The Series consoles only really appeal to people already ingrained in the Xbox ecosystem…

…this has really held them back this generation, but conversely it’s probably the main reason Xbox is still going at all.

 

[rm082e]

BIG LOL at this. They are already around 1/2 of XO sales with series consoles.

Xbox One lifetime unit sales worldwide 2024 | Statista

As of August 2024, lifetime unit sales of Xbox One consoles in North America reached nearly 33 million, while in Europe, lifetime unit sales surpassed 12.8 million.

www.statista.com

Microsoft Xbox lifetime sales worldwide 2023 | Statista

Microsoft's best-selling Xbox video game console is the Xbox 360, with almost 86 million units shipped.

www.statista.com

Yep. XO sold close to 60m in 7 years. We're 4 years into the Series and it's around 30m.

X360 = 86+ million units lifetime. 2/3 of 86 million = 57.3 million
XO = 58 million units lifetime. 2/3 of 58 million = 38.6 million
Series S/X = Around 30 million units? It was reported as 27.7 back in April. So if this generation goes 7-8 years, they would be lucky to hit that 38.6 million number.

Obviously, to hit that 38.6m, they're going to need multiple price drops and not launching a new generation sooner. If they can't get the MSRP down, or if they actually launch new hardware in 2026 (I am very skeptical of this), then that would cut Series console sales even shorter.

Assuming the software strategy stays on autopilot, I'm not sure why anyone would expect the trend to change. Is Microsoft really going to launch a walled-garden console/handheld with the prospect of selling 19-25 million units lifetime (half to two thirds of the Series total sales)? I don't think that math can be justified in any way.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Assuming the software strategy stays on autopilot, I'm not sure why anyone would expect the trend to change. Is Microsoft really going to launch a walled-garden console/handheld with the prospect of selling 19-25 million units lifetime (half to two thirds of the Series total sales)? I don't think that math can be justified in any way.

Makes sense

There sales trajectory for the first half of this gen isn’t that far behind last-gen.

However the difference with this gen has been a big change to releasing games on PS5 at the mid point. Which will drastically change the trajectory during the second half.

I don’t think releasing Xbox games on PC had the impact that people on here like to make out (you’re either a PC guy or a console guy), but when people see more and more Xbox games on PS5 that’s severely going to impact their console sales.

Imagine an iconic Xbox IP like Halo, Gears or Fable releasing on PS5, even casual gamers are going to notice that.

 

[chromhound]

They need to make a clean-up in the management department

 

[digoutyoursoul]

They need to make a clean-up in the management department

The time for that was years ago but the majority of people instead cheered them on or in the media refused to look at that team and what they were doing with any scrutiny and anyone who did received the predictable shame tactic routine. Horrible.

It’s too late anyway, they have already set the standard by releasing major titles on PlayStation and probably the next Switch. more consumers will simply hold off buying from them hardware wise and invest more into other eco systems who have their own exclusive content and now Microsoft’s.

 

[mayham2199]

The time for that was years ago but the majority of people instead cheered them on or in the media refused to look at that team and what they were doing with any scrutiny and anyone who did received the predictable shame tactic routine. Horrible.

It’s too late anyway, they have already set the standard by releasing major titles on PlayStation and probably the next Switch. more consumers will simply hold off buying from them hardware wise and invest more into other eco systems who have their own exclusive content and now Microsoft’s.

It honestly made me feel like a crazy person when I would go online and see people cheering on Xbox time after time when they continued to deliver nothing. Listening to Phil say for the 500th time we need to deliver more games, etc.

I loved Xbox during the 360 generation but I'm so glad I didn't try to force myself to stay with them even though I didn't want to leave my achievements\account behind. I ended up doing just that.

 

[Woopah]

People are still hyperfixated with console sales numbers. Remember when Sony were blindsided by the ipod and the Walkman quickly became irrelevant?

Doesn't that example show the importance of hardware sales? Surely Sony would have prefered the Walkman to outsell the iPod.

I've yet to see a take on Xbox recently that wasn't just FUD or console warring.

What would your take be?

Microsoft could have released 10 console exclusive bangers each year since 2020 and Sony could have released only PS4 Remasters and it wouldn't have changed much. Exclusives are just a nice to have if you are not Nintendo.

It would have been extremely difficult, but if Nintendo can drive adoption with exclusives then Microsoft can too.

 

[BlackTron]

 

[m14]

Doesn't that example show the importance of hardware sales? Surely Sony would have prefered the Walkman to outsell the iPod.

That's true but this example was to illustrate how Sony as the market leader were quickly overtaken by a company who took a radically different approach to hardware and content distribution.

Yeah I don’t think the mainstream consumer looking to buy a console will choose Xbox because the parent company just happens to own COD.

They’ll just see COD available in the shop for both platforms and notice one platform has a lot more quality titles than the other.

There’s literally no reason for anyone who’s buying a console for the first time to choose Xbox Series over PS5. The Series consoles only really appeal to people already ingrained in the Xbox ecosystem…

…this has really held them back this generation, but conversely it’s probably the main reason Xbox is still going at all.

I'm not sure a mainstream customer would perceive that PS5 has a lot more quality titles, although based on name recognition Spider-Man would surely be a draw. Sony enthusiasts tend to overestimate the appeal of their first party games when the reality is that a PS5 is mostly a COD/ Madden-EAFC-2K / GTA machine for the majority. Sony's real advantage is being the current market leader in consoles with a larger install base. It doesn't matter how much a lad wants to play Starfield or Forza Horizon, when his bros have gone with PS5 he will have to fall in line.

 

[demigod]

I see Mr Funsocks or whatever his name was has made a new account lol

2007 alt account. I was thinking it was meirl but he’s probably the same person, mr fun socks.

 

[onQ123]

2007 alt account. I was thinking it was meirl but he’s probably the same person, mr fun socks.

Lol never checked the join date but he post a lot like him

 

[Topher]

2007 alt account. I was thinking it was meirl but he’s probably the same person, mr fun socks.

If this picture triggers him then we will know...

 

[indigoSociety]

idk they seemed pretty together at that summer showcase. I honestly like their current trajectory. Theyve seemed strategic in what theyre making multiplatform and you have to imagine with all these huge investments theyre going to go all in on their next machine with Sarah Bond saying it will be their biggest leap yet. Can obviously just be marketing talk but idk it adds up to me i have a good feeling about Xbox. They clearly seem to know they need exclusives to pull people into the ecosystem based on their last few summer showcases especially the last one. Been way too long but they have a lot of games coming that interest me. Not to mention this handheld. Sony needs competition its good for gaming. Hope thie isnt true.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

If they are going down I just hope they try some crazy shit with consoles as a hail mary, which sounds like they are. The idea of an open console that I can play games from different launchers as has been specualted sounds pretty cool.

Also they seem to have some promising-looking games coming up with new Gears, Perfect Dark and Doom. Indy might be good too, I do like slower adventure style games so will be keen to give it a crack.

I know it's a bit of a meme at this point to hate on them but it'd be a bit sad if they pulled out altogether, same way it was sad to see Sony go.

Anyway, time will tell.

 

[VAVA Mk2]

My iPhone autocorreced Peter Moor to Phil Spencer

God I miss that era of Xbox, distant memory now…

Xbox needs him back now more than ever.

 

[NickFire]

BIG LOL at this. They are already around 1/2 of XO sales with series consoles.

Xbox One lifetime unit sales worldwide 2024 | Statista

As of August 2024, lifetime unit sales of Xbox One consoles in North America reached nearly 33 million, while in Europe, lifetime unit sales surpassed 12.8 million.

www.statista.com

Microsoft Xbox lifetime sales worldwide 2023 | Statista

Microsoft's best-selling Xbox video game console is the Xbox 360, with almost 86 million units shipped.

www.statista.com

Are you sure the quotes you posted didn’t support the claim that was lol’d.

 

[pasterpl]

Are you sure the quotes you posted didn’t support the claim that was lol’d.

You might be right actually I have originally misread the post I was quoting.

 

[awwr999999]

Did you ever hear Sony's reasons for entering the video game industry?

According to Shawn Layden, "Kutaragi’s vision was to create a machine that brought the cutting-edge experience of arcades into the homes of regular people."

 

[m14]

According to Shawn Layden, "Kutaragi’s vision was to create a machine that brought the cutting-edge experience of arcades into the homes of regular people."

But weren't they also hugely motivated by Nintendo's betrayal?

 

[Woopah]

That's true but this example was to illustrate how Sony as the market leader were quickly overtaken by a company who took a radically different approach to hardware and content distribution.

It's certainly possible that Sony's and Nintendo's business model could be disrupted in the future. But so far there's little sign that MS will be the one to do it.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm not sure a mainstream customer would perceive that PS5 has a lot more quality titles, although based on name recognition Spider-Man would surely be a draw. Sony enthusiasts tend to overestimate the appeal of their first party games when the reality is that a PS5 is mostly a COD/ Madden-EAFC-2K / GTA machine for the majority. Sony's real advantage is being the current market leader in consoles with a larger install base. It doesn't matter how much a lad wants to play Starfield or Forza Horizon, when his bros have gone with PS5 he will have to fall in line.

The bolded is an INSANE thing to think. I'm sorry. WOW!

 

[awwr999999]

But weren't they also hugely motivated by Nintendo's betrayal?

Kutaragi was motivated by the great idea that Nintendo had abandoned.
He only got his boss to approve it by pointing out that by not doing it they were doing exactly what Nintendo wanted.

 

[FalconPunch]

BIG LOL at this. They are already around 1/2 of XO sales with series consoles.

Xbox One lifetime unit sales worldwide 2024 | Statista

As of August 2024, lifetime unit sales of Xbox One consoles in North America reached nearly 33 million, while in Europe, lifetime unit sales surpassed 12.8 million.

www.statista.com

Microsoft Xbox lifetime sales worldwide 2023 | Statista

Microsoft's best-selling Xbox video game console is the Xbox 360, with almost 86 million units shipped.

www.statista.com

Xbox Series will not match Xbox One in sales. The trajectory of the Xbox Series sales have fallen off a cliff especially in europe. Once the Switch 2 comes out, it's over.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

Xbox Series will not match Xbox One in sales. The trajectory of the Xbox Series sales have fallen off a cliff especially in europe. Once the Switch 2 comes out, it's over.

How much did Xbox One X affect overall sales? They won’t have an equivalent this time.

Second half gen console sales will really be affected by how many games they put out on PS5. People will really sit up and notice if something like Halo goes to PlayStation.

 

[bitbydeath]

Halo has had its problems but then we remember that the best FPS game on PS5 is PowerWash simulator...

Did PowerWash simulator not release on Xbox?

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Things look pretty chill AF at MS right now

Dunno what Jason is talking about

 

[YeulEmeralda]

OG Xbox had games like Morrowind, Halo, KOTOR, Ninja Gaiden and Shenmue 2 which couldn't have been done on the PS2 hardware.
It made the console stand out.

 

[m14]

Did PowerWash simulator not release on Xbox?

It did. I don't really think PowerWash Simulator is an FPS. The best FPS available on PS5 is probably Titanfall 2, although that's also on Xbox. Racing games and FPS are the two genres where MS have a definite advantage over Sony.

 

[Radical_3d]

OG Xbox had games like Morrowind, Halo, KOTOR, Ninja Gaiden and Shenmue 2 which couldn't have been done on the PS2 hardware.
It made the console stand out.

 

[Kurotri]

Seems like there's no real plan whatsoever

 

[RPCGamer]

So xbox are now the dog that caught the mud flap...both xbox and Sony are in such a weird place it's unreal. We have xbox doing everything and anything, we have Sony living off it's legacy while coasting in the default position. Next gen and the audience reaction is going to be very interesting.

 

[clarky]

Racing games and FPS are the two genres where MS have a definite advantage over Sony.

Not anymore. Forza Motorsport is shite and Halo is a spent force.

 

[clarky]

Seems like there's no real plan whatsoever

Please stop quoting this guy as a source. Hes about as anti xbox as you can get.

 

[Kurotri]

Please stop quoting this guy as a source. Hes about as anti xbox as you can get.

You mean Jason or the twitter guy? Don't know him

 

[Det]

Seems like there's no real plan whatsoever

I thought that the fantasy of "xbox savior, xbox the good guy fighting against evil" was rhetoric to fool stupid fanboys, but it seems that it resonates within the industry.

Any "Playstation fanboy" knows that all of Phill's stuff is pure fanboy theater, just personality worship, but it seems to fool a lot of people within the industry as well.

 

[clarky]

You mean Jason or the twitter guy? Don't know him

The twitter guy, one of the worst there is.

 

[m14]

Not anymore. Forza Motorsport is shite and Halo is a spent force.

It's true that Forza Motorsport has fallen off but the Forza Horizon series remains critically acclaimed and has no equivalent on PS5.

Yes Halo is struggling but Infinite has very solid core gameplay and again there is no equivalent on the PS4/5. As much as Infinite failed to revive the franchise and as a system seller, it's still odd for Sony fans to criticise it so much when their FPS cupboard is completely bare. They currently have nothing close to the MCC either. And even older FPS titles like GoldenEye 007 and Black are available to play on Xbox.

 

[PurePlatinum]

idk they seemed pretty together at that summer showcase. I honestly like their current trajectory. Theyve seemed strategic in what theyre making multiplatform and you have to imagine with all these huge investments theyre going to go all in on their next machine with Sarah Bond saying it will be their biggest leap yet. Can obviously just be marketing talk but idk it adds up to me i have a good feeling about Xbox. They clearly seem to know they need exclusives to pull people into the ecosystem based on their last few summer showcases especially the last one. Been way too long but they have a lot of games coming that interest me. Not to mention this handheld. Sony needs competition its good for gaming. Hope thie isnt true.

They always seem like they have their shit together at showcases and then they never deliver. Bosman has said something to this affect, but many of their games are more valuable to Xbox marketing before they are released than afterwards, because the end product is so routinely disappointing.

Redfall, Starfield, and Hellblade were all much more valuable as trailers in E3 shows.

I've been watching Xbox have great showcases since at least 2018. It's been six years and still they don't have the kinds of exclusives that ignite a platform base.

 

[semiconscious]

So xbox are now the dog that caught the mud flap...both xbox and Sony are in such a weird place it's unreal. We have xbox doing everything and anything, we have Sony living off it's legacy while coasting in the default position. Next gen and the audience reaction is going to be very interesting.

agreed. sony's in the more advantageous place, console-wise, obviously, but, yeah: both places are definitely equally weird...

 

[PurePlatinum]

Feel like Xbox banked too much on Game Pass and just stopped making games. Not all of them would have been a hit, but if you created enough titles of various sizes and their own uniqueness, it would have grabbed enough people's attention to look into buying the console. It's definitely what grabbed me with the 360.

It's two pronged - You need to have experiences that you cannot get elsewhere (Either via 1st party development or by making deals) AND you need to have the support of major 3rd party games. GamePass isn't as big of a factor as people make it out to be, because people are capable of doing math and figuring out it doesn't save most customers money.

Xbox routinely has missed the boat on major 3rd party games from the developers that matter. Nobody cares that the NEW Yakuza is launching on GamePass when Yakuza just simply wasn't available on your platform for the first fifteen years of the franchise. Same with Persona/Metaphor. Same with Nier.

AND they miss the boat on giant new franchises too because they don't have deep institutional knowledge about gaming. This year AND last year they missed the biggest games of the year (Wukong/Baldurs Gate) for reasons that are COMPLETELY their fault.

 

[Astray]

Seems like there's no real plan whatsoever

You mean Jason or the twitter guy? Don't know him

The twitter guy, one of the worst there is.

Here's the source podcast episode, The discussion about Xbox and Blizzard starts around 1:20:00ish I'd say? Hard to tell because the twitter video skips around a bit.

 

[clarky]

Here's the source podcast episode, The discussion about Xbox and Blizzard starts around 1:20:00ish I'd say? Hard to tell because the twitter video skips around a bit.

Skillup's alright tbf. Although i don't listen to his podcasts.

 

[clarky]

It's true that Forza Motorsport has fallen off but the Forza Horizon series remains critically acclaimed and has no equivalent on PS5.

Yes Halo is struggling but Infinite has very solid core gameplay and again there is no equivalent on the PS4/5. As much as Infinite failed to revive the franchise and as a system seller, it's still odd for Sony fans to criticise it so much when their FPS cupboard is completely bare. They currently have nothing close to the MCC either. And even older FPS titles like GoldenEye 007 and Black are available to play on Xbox.

GT7 is a much better racer and has COD, the most popular fps on the market so im not sure what you mean by completely bare?

Edit: Just checked PS folks have loads of FPS and racers to choose from so im not sure whereabouts you are coming from.

 

[Astray]

Skillup's alright tbf. Although i don't listen to his podcasts.

The Friend Per Second podcasts can honestly be boring tbh so I don't blame you.

GT7 is a much better racer and has COD, the most popular fps on the market so im not sure what you mean by completely bare?

Edit: Just checked PS folks have loads of FPS and racers to choose from so im not sure whereabouts you are coming from.

Sometimes I wonder if Halo's real problem is just 343 being supposedly bad (never played much of the series to judge properly, going purely by what I hear on here), or if the FPS market has expanded so much on PC/PS and taken significant marketshare from the Halo franchise overall?

COD in particular feels like it took a LOT of mindshare from Halo.

 

[RPCGamer]

It's two pronged - You need to have experiences that you cannot get elsewhere (Either via 1st party development or by making deals) AND you need to have the support of major 3rd party games. GamePass isn't as big of a factor as people make it out to be, because people are capable of doing math and figuring out it doesn't save most customers money.

Xbox routinely has missed the boat on major 3rd party games from the developers that matter. Nobody cares that the NEW Yakuza is launching on GamePass when Yakuza just simply wasn't available on your platform for the first fifteen years of the franchise. Same with Persona/Metaphor. Same with Nier.

AND they miss the boat on giant new franchises too because they don't have deep institutional knowledge about gaming. This year AND last year they missed the biggest games of the year (Wukong/Baldurs Gate) for reasons that are COMPLETELY their fault.

Looking forward, I think xbox could end this gen quite strong. They have the lineup and Sony seemed to have gotten lost under Jim Ryan and his idea of everything being GaaS. It could lead into a good next gen for xbox as a result.

 

[Astray]

Looking forward, I think xbox could end this gen quite strong. They have the lineup and Sony seemed to have gotten lost under Jim Ryan and his idea of everything being GaaS. It could lead into a good next gen for xbox as a result.

ngl, this feels like wishful thinking at this point.

2024 was a relatively weak 1st party year for Sony, and they still managed to dominate the console conversation every month of the year almost.

2025 already starts off with DS2, Ghost of Yotei and the PS5 Pro push, they're not gonna give the Xbox team a moment's rest.

 

[PurePlatinum]

Looking forward, I think xbox could end this gen quite strong. They have the lineup and Sony seemed to have gotten lost under Jim Ryan and his idea of everything being GaaS. It could lead into a good next gen for xbox as a result.

I felt this way going into THIS gen and they completely mangled it again. I have zero faith in them to deliver.

 

[RPCGamer]

ngl, this feels like wishful thinking at this point.

2024 was a relatively weak 1st party year for Sony, and they still managed to dominate the console conversation every month of the year almost.

2025 already starts off with DS2, Ghost of Yotei and the PS5 Pro push, they're not gonna give the Xbox team a moment's rest.

true. Though, xbox didn't have much to change the narrative.

 

[clarky]

The Friend Per Second podcasts can honestly be boring tbh so I don't blame you.


Sometimes I wonder if Halo's real problem is just 343 being supposedly bad (never played much of the series to judge properly, going purely by what I hear on here), or if the FPS market has expanded so much on PC/PS and taken significant marketshare from the Halo franchise overall?

COD in particular feels like it took a LOT of mindshare from Halo.

To be honest I think Infinite plays a pretty decent game of Halo, but its just dated at this point. They are not getting any significant player base back.

They should focus on an absolute banger of a campaign if they want relevance again if you ask me.