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Jonathan Hickman’s New Avengers / Avengers |OT| Thanos is in this (Spoilers)

M

Mudcrab

Member
thetrin said:
I still think the incursions were caused by (spoilers for Fantastic Four #605.1)
Nazi Reed losing control of the Infinity Gauntlet.
I could be wildly wrong, but after rereading Hickman's Fantastic Four, it made me think. In addition,
the place he forms the council of Reeds also looked similar to a Black Swan library. I wonder if that's related...
Click to expand...

Yeah I love that theory. Reposting for those who missed it:

DrTraveler from CBR said:
I think that we have our answer now. Fantastic Four 605.1 has us witness the destruction of an Earth, and a whole Universe, when a Reed/Doom hybrid loses control of an Infinity Gauntlet while under assault by that world's Avengers. That would probably be the destroyed Earth.

On it's own, that wouldn't have caused the incursions, but it almost certainly would have shocked the hell out of the Ivory Kings. We've seen Earth at the center of events that could have resulted in the death of everything before (Marvel 1602, Age of Apocalypse, possibly Age of Ultron). The 616 Earth even beat the Beyonder (one of their child units). It is likely that the Ivory Kings decided to heck with this. They decided to tear down the multiverse and build something better using the Map Makers to ensure they get everything.

Doom in Fantastic Four 611 finds a gauntlet and creates a Universe in his image in the place of the destroyed universe. As the Multiverse had already contracted, the forced in Universe could have caused the first Incursions by pushing together Earths "close" to each other. Thus starts the Incursions thanks to Doom.

Meanwhile, during Time Runs Out, Owen Reese the Molecule Man hints to Doom that he has a bigger role in what is happening than even he realizes and takes Doom back "to the beginning." There Doom learns two important things: His role in what happened and the fact the Ivory Kings have started to work towards destroying it all.

Doom realizes that even with Owen to back him up, he can not take on the Ivory Kings alone. He barely survived alone against 4 mad Celestials and so Doom sees an opportunity with the Incursions. Using the Swans (who he recruits using the Library of Worlds built by the Ivory Kings), Doom starts the great Game. The Swans will find each Universes Manifold, use the Manifold to CONTINUE to ensure Incursions happen, and build up an army of heroes and villains as the Incursions play out. Each destroyed Earth will leave behind a small trace on the victor allowing them to pick up rements of each Universe as they travel through the Incursions. Doom can then build Battleword, and his army, using those remnants.

This is where Val and Franklin come in. Franklin will do the actual building of Battleworld using the Rogue Planet he helps ensure goes back in time. Val is doing a lot of the planning behind the scenes to make this plan come to fruition. Once Doom, Val, Franklin, and Owen build the Battleworld, they can use the army of heroes and villains to take on the Ivory Kings.
Click to expand...
 
P

PhoncipleBone

Banned
Mudcrab said:
Yeah I love that theory. Reposting for those who missed it:
Click to expand...

hqdYTbh.gif
 
I

Ivan A Nguyen

Member
Has anyone explained why a bunch of universes seemed to disappear over night? At first I thought it was tied to Doc Ock cutting up the web of fate in spider verse, but no one seems to mention it.
 
J

J10

Banned
Ivan A Nguyen said:
Has anyone explained why a bunch of universes seemed to disappear over night? At first I thought it was tied to Doc Ock cutting up the web of fate in spider verse, but no one seems to mention it.
Click to expand...

I think it was said that the majority of universes weren't doing anything to stop the incursions, so it's at least two at a time going bye bye since this started.
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
J10 said:
I think it was said that the majority of universes weren't doing anything to stop the incursions, so it's at least two at a time going bye bye since this started.
Click to expand...

Combine that with the Beyonders finally finishing off the Living Tribunal and being able to start actively destroying worlds.
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
XAL said:
side question: is this shit worth reading? http://marvel.wikia.com/Brotherhood_of_the_Shield_(Earth-616)

I saw Tesla's and Newton's...outfits and I'm thinking maybe no...
Click to expand...
Fantastic book. I mean, it has brood in ancient Egypt, Celestials in medieval China, your favorite Renaissance guys and fucking Tesla. It's really the secret history ofEarth 616.
It has only two flaws: we've been waiting for these last two issues for years and so far it hasn't tied into the FF/Avengers mega-epic. The only remote tie so far has been in Avengers World where the Spear finally showed up.

Given that the Brotherhood's motto is "this is not how the world ends", I'm still surprised Hickman didn't make the connection.
 
T

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Mudcrab said:
Yeah I love that theory. Reposting for those who missed it:
Click to expand...

Considering that FF #611 is included in Secret Wars Prelude, it's likely the theory is true (kinda wish #605.1 was included too, because it's just a kickass issue in general)
 
J

J10

Banned
OK, thanks.

Going back through certain issues in both series, I remembered something that struck me as I was originally reading through all of it: a lack of splash pages. I can only remember seeing like two.
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
Coriolanus said:
Mahvel's site, bro.
Click to expand...
The site has been consistently wrong for the past few months, I guess they never update when a book slips.
Plus, there's some weird stuff going on: a CBR interview today confirms Deodato will do NA #33 while he was solicited for Avengers #44.

FWIW, Comixology has both books on preorder for the 29th.

Do we know when Secret Wars #1 releases? I hope there isn't more than 2 weeks between the last Avengers issue and SW.

Edit: the second part of the interview I mentioned confirms the following:
- NA 33 will have Deodato on art.
- Avengers 44 will have Caselli and Walker (no idea how they could blend)
- Secret Wars 1 is on May 6th.
- Secret Wars 2 hits a week later.

This is a great interview as it gives us a lot of insight on Hickman's views on characters and the overall creative/editorial process:
part 1.
part 2.
 
M

Mudcrab

Member
Palette Swap said:
The site has been consistently wrong for the past few months, I guess they never update when a book slips.
Plus, there's some weird stuff going on: a CBR interview today confirms Deodato will do NA #33 while he was solicited for Avengers #44.

FWIW, Comixology has both books on preorder for the 29th.

Do we know when Secret Wars #1 releases? I hope there isn't more than 2 weeks between the last Avengers issue and SW.

Edit: the second part of the interview I mentioned confirms the following:
- NA 33 will have Deodato on art.
- Avengers 44 will have Caselli and Walker (no idea how they could blend)
- Secret Wars 1 is on May 6th.
- Secret Wars 2 hits a week later.

This is a great interview as it gives us a lot of insight on Hickman's views on characters and the overall creative/editorial process:
part 1.
part 2.
Click to expand...

Great interview.

Choice quote:

Hickman said:
When [editor] Tom Brevoort and I first started talking about doing this years ago, the original concept for what I wanted to do was kind of like "Exiles" meets "Strikeforce: Morituri." That was kind of the book I wanted to write.
Click to expand...

Also those wordless previews are hype.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
Palette Swap said:
The site has been consistently wrong for the past few months, I guess they never update when a book slips.
Plus, there's some weird stuff going on: a CBR interview today confirms Deodato will do NA #33 while he was solicited for Avengers #44[/url]
Click to expand...
Welp.
Thanks for crushing muh hopes and dreams.
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
PsychBat! said:
We are so close, people.

Time Runs Out
Everything Dies
The Secret Wars COMMENCE!
Click to expand...
Just to emphasize your point, here's how Hickman describes Secret Wars:
So I'll say this for what people can expect: Issue #1 is basically a cold open on the end of the world,
Click to expand...

Damn, less than three weeks to go until Avengers ends with two books on the same day. Counting Infinity, that's 81 issues down and 2 to go.
(I'm discounting side stuff like annuals, .1 issues and Avengers World)
 
S

Seibmoz

Member
Guys quick question but does Avengers World also tie into this, I want to make sure I'm reading everything I'm suppose to leading up to this. Thanks in advance!
 
J

J10

Banned
I haven't looked at very many of the solicitations for the Secret Wars stuff, but do we have some idea of who's going to still be alive when it starts?
 
M

Mudcrab

Member
J10 said:
I haven't looked at very many of the solicitations for the Secret Wars stuff, but do we have some idea of who's going to still be alive when it starts?
Click to expand...

If we trust covers and wordless previews, then we know the Illuminati and the Cabal make it through intact. The only Ultimate characters we've seen in SW stuff (after Ultimate End) so far is Miles and Ultimate Reed.
 
K

kswiston

Member
Mudcrab said:
If we trust covers and wordless previews, then we know the Illuminati and the Cabal make it through intact. The only Ultimate characters we've seen in SW stuff (after Ultimate End) so far is Miles and Ultimate Reed.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure Ultimate Thor was on that Thors cover.
 
P

Palette Swap

Member
And here we go. In anticipation of these last issues, I've started rereading the whole Avengers run from the start.
I started with NA and one thing hits me in retrospect: the art. Epting and their colorist are doing God's Rabum Alal's work here. It's a pity we didn't keep them throughout the series because they're perfect to convey the cosmic horror tone of Hickman's story. IIRC, Butch Guice and Mike Deodato work pretty well in that regard later on.
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
Palette Swap said:
And here we go. In anticipation of these last issues, I've started rereading the whole Avengers run from the start.
I started with NA and one thing hits me in retrospect: the art. Epting and their colorist are doing God's Rabum Alal's work here. It's a pity we didn't keep them throughout the series because they're perfect to convey the cosmic horror tone of Hickman's story. IIRC, Butch Guice and Mike Deodato work pretty well in that regard later on.
Click to expand...

That art throughout would have been amazing, because as good as the story's been there have been some stinkers on art. Unfortunately during pivotal parts and often mid-arc. I'm rarely critical about art, but here I feel the lesser artists did detract from some of the best moments.
 
K

kswiston

Member
Nils said:
That art throughout would have been amazing, because as good as the story's been there have been some stinkers on art. Unfortunately during pivotal parts and often mid-arc. I'm rarely critical about art, but here I feel the lesser artists did detract from some of the best moments.
Click to expand...

This is a problem with Marvel in general these past few years. Steve Epting went on to do creator-owned stuff at Image, so him leaving is understandable. However, I have no idea why Marvel feels the need to pull artists off a book after one arc, just to stick them on something else, Find 2 artists who compliment eachother, and stick with them if you want to ship 15-18 books a year.

New Avengers has had 33 issues in the last 28(?) months, and in that time it has had what? 5-6 different artists?
 
S

Spoit

Member
kswiston said:
This is a problem with Marvel in general these past few years. Steve Epting went on to do creator-owned stuff at Image, so him leaving is understandable. However, I have no idea why Marvel feels the need to pull artists off a book after one arc, just to stick them on something else, Find 2 artists who compliment eachother, and stick with them if you want to ship 15-18 books a year.

New Avengers has had 33 issues in the last 28(?) months, and in that time it has had what? 5-6 different artists?
Click to expand...

Because then you have things like Aja's hawkeye
 
K

kswiston

Member
Spoit said:
Because then you have things like Aja's hawkeye
Click to expand...

I think Matt Fraction contributed to that.

Also, Aja is particularly slow. Most of the guys who have worked on New Avengers can at least do 8-12 issues a year. Put two rotating artists on the book and have them work on alternating story arcs. I'm glad I don't read this stuff in trade format. Having to switch back and forth between artists every chapter or two is going to be jarring.
 
T

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I would've loved to see Daniel Acuna work on Hickman's Avengers, but I guess it would've been weird to see his art in three different Avengers titles.

kswiston said:
I think Matt Fraction contributed to that.

Also, Aja is particularly slow. Most of the guys who have worked on New Avengers can at least do 8-12 issues a year. Put two rotating artists on the book and have them work on alternating story arcs. I'm glad I don't read this stuff in trade format. Having to switch back and forth between artists every chapter or two is going to be jarring.
Click to expand...

This story is going to be a nightmare in trades.
 
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