Which is a terrible policy. Ban the gamertag until the game comes out at the most. The onus should be on MS to prove that it was a pirated copy, not swinging the banhammer around and catching legitimate copies. If they can't do that, they should not be banning people.
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Just got my console (and I assume my account) banned from Live for playing Halo 4.
- Thread starter Skel1ingt0n
- Start date
Which is a terrible policy. Ban the gamertag until the game comes out at the most. The onus should be on MS to prove that it was a pirated copy, not swinging the banhammer around and catching legitimate copies. If they can't do that, they should not be banning people.
Zoe
Member
Microsoft cares. Stores that break street dates are liable for fines and such.
onlyindreams
Banned
lol good one, there can't be anyone that stupid right?
EatinOlives
Member
OP bought another console? Seriously?
Ugh, I hope you realize that kind of response is exactly why MS is so shitty to their consumers, because of people like you.
Ugh, I hope you realize that kind of response is exactly why MS is so shitty to their consumers, because of people like you.
Baconsammy
Banned
They've been good to me. So has Nintendo. Only felt fucked by one company, and that was Sony with the YLOD. I got over it and bought another.
EatinOlives
Member
A console breaking isn't exactly the same as shitty customer "support" and ban-first-ask-questions-never stances that are only perpetuated because people keep buying into their horrible service.
I don't really have a problem with anyone buying into it if their experience is good so far, because to them nothing is wrong, but if you've been actively fucked over by the company why on earth would anyone want to spend several hundred dollars on a new console? Do they not realize what kind of message it sends to the company?
Ninja Scooter
Member
Why do you think they usually only ban consoles and not gamertags? They know they'll buy new systems.
Baconsammy
Banned
Banning users/consoles for playing a retail copy of any game that was legitimately purchased is complete bullshit, and I'm surprised they're allowed to get away with it legally.
phosphor112
Banned
This thread is just full of fun. The defense for such actions is just hilarious...
People calling this purchase not legitimate know that the OP has absolutely no business making sure that contracts between Microsoft and the reseller are okay, right? It's none of his business just like it wouldn't be his business if the reseller went down in flames and couldn't pay its bills due to that.
teacupcopter
Banned
Anyone defending Microsofts actions is just a blind corporate shill. These are the idiots who also defend bullshit like game companies pulling titles people have paid from from download servers as well. I just don't understand why people just lube up and bend over for this shit, it's like the workers rights erosions happening right now, we fight for years (decades, in workers rights cases centuries) to get basic fucking things in and now people defend companies abusing that.
Sue them.
out0v0rder
Member
if we all keep giving them money they will continue to think it's okay to do stuff like this.
Well I was ok with it until MS didn't reinstate his console. Now I'm against it. You can't just swing the ban hammer without an appropriate plan to re-instate legit copies that were purchased early. Getting caught in the first place was the OPs fault but now still being banned is bullshit and MS is clearly wrong here.
Skel1ingt0n
I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Like I said before in a previous post, I apologize for my absense; but I'm very busy with work this afternoon. That said, I'll try to clear things up real quick...
1) I've received a small handful of PMs from other users today, and I will try to reply back to those ASAP; but I appreciate all advice and support.
2) I am not, in any way, trying to call Stinkles out or pushing for a ban or anything like that. Stinkles was kind enough to offer his help, and I'm appreciative for that. It wasn't his job. With that said, I do feel, at this point, that it came off as pre-release damage control, Unfortunatley. It was easy to infer there was a simple solution on his end, and it would be taken care of in a timely fashion. If things do work out in the end, though - GREAT! - I'd love to update this thread with the good news. I do understand he could be busy, and so I'm trying to not jump to conclusions. It does suck not having "pressing" PMs replied to.
3) Stinkles asked fora picture of the receipt via PM; one dated on release day, I was told, would be fine. I was informed the lapse of certainty in such "proof" was not a problem, and I was assured no recourse would be taken against the store or those working there. I provided a picture of open game and a receipt on launch day. I was informed the appropriate people were notified and the ball was moving, but as time passed and I asked what kind of timetable I was looking at, messages back ceased. I believe private messages, in exact words, should be kept private. That said, I believe this is an accurate "gist" of our back and forth.
4) I haven't contacted MS support because until about mid-Thanksgiving, iwas under the impression Stinkles was working on it. I didn't want to step on his toes or call attention if he was doing me a favor behind the scenes. I'm patient, and don't want to trouble the person helping me. But at this point, I've worked withMS support in the past, and they're not very helpful. I'm near certain my case will be ignored and my uniqueness dismissed. That said, I will try later this week, I suppose. But for a long while, based ona post moments after my OP, I didn't feel it'd be necessary.
5) I have a ps3, a wii, a wiiu... I don't play favorites or stand by one brand. I like video games - plain and simple. A good game is a good game, and I don't want to miss out ona good game. Period. It sucks, but I don't want to have MS crappiness prevent me from enjoying my favorite hobby or supporting great games and great devs. Furthermore, I have 60+ 360 titles... I'm not just gonna dump em. It's a sucky situation, yes, and I know I'm forgiving something I shouldn't... But I'm locked In and want to be able to play with my friends.
Posting from my iPad; sorry for typos.
4)
1) I've received a small handful of PMs from other users today, and I will try to reply back to those ASAP; but I appreciate all advice and support.
2) I am not, in any way, trying to call Stinkles out or pushing for a ban or anything like that. Stinkles was kind enough to offer his help, and I'm appreciative for that. It wasn't his job. With that said, I do feel, at this point, that it came off as pre-release damage control, Unfortunatley. It was easy to infer there was a simple solution on his end, and it would be taken care of in a timely fashion. If things do work out in the end, though - GREAT! - I'd love to update this thread with the good news. I do understand he could be busy, and so I'm trying to not jump to conclusions. It does suck not having "pressing" PMs replied to.
3) Stinkles asked fora picture of the receipt via PM; one dated on release day, I was told, would be fine. I was informed the lapse of certainty in such "proof" was not a problem, and I was assured no recourse would be taken against the store or those working there. I provided a picture of open game and a receipt on launch day. I was informed the appropriate people were notified and the ball was moving, but as time passed and I asked what kind of timetable I was looking at, messages back ceased. I believe private messages, in exact words, should be kept private. That said, I believe this is an accurate "gist" of our back and forth.
4) I haven't contacted MS support because until about mid-Thanksgiving, iwas under the impression Stinkles was working on it. I didn't want to step on his toes or call attention if he was doing me a favor behind the scenes. I'm patient, and don't want to trouble the person helping me. But at this point, I've worked withMS support in the past, and they're not very helpful. I'm near certain my case will be ignored and my uniqueness dismissed. That said, I will try later this week, I suppose. But for a long while, based ona post moments after my OP, I didn't feel it'd be necessary.
5) I have a ps3, a wii, a wiiu... I don't play favorites or stand by one brand. I like video games - plain and simple. A good game is a good game, and I don't want to miss out ona good game. Period. It sucks, but I don't want to have MS crappiness prevent me from enjoying my favorite hobby or supporting great games and great devs. Furthermore, I have 60+ 360 titles... I'm not just gonna dump em. It's a sucky situation, yes, and I know I'm forgiving something I shouldn't... But I'm locked In and want to be able to play with my friends.
Posting from my iPad; sorry for typos.
4)
DangerousDave
Member
I just saw in my CrackDown retail box that we're not allowed to rent 360 games.
So maybe it should be ok if MS ban anyone that play too many different games in a short timeframe, because it will be indicative that this user is playing rented games, and then wait for the user to contact with user service and show a copy of the receipts of the game.
So maybe it should be ok if MS ban anyone that play too many different games in a short timeframe, because it will be indicative that this user is playing rented games, and then wait for the user to contact with user service and show a copy of the receipts of the game.
Calling people a shill for having other opinions about what went down and who's telling the truth about what is BULLSHIT.
Thanks for clearing some things up.
It just seems that the situation is out of Frank's hands now.
What? No. This is ridiculous. The last thing MS should do is ban you before even finding out how you got the game. It's not your fault a retailer sold it early. And you paid full price for the game. They are punishing you for being a loyal customer. What a load of crap. You buy another console before this is resolved and it ultimately only helps their cause, not yours. They should not be allowed to treat customers this way. They sent your account to the digital equivalent of Guantanamo Bay. They didn't even find out the cause, and only blacklisted your gamertag/console on the mere suspicion that you may have done something illegal in the name of supposedly thwarting theft. They have no proof nor did they ask you for any. This is lunacy.
smh
MS should be sued. This is a de facto example of why we need legislation or a high court ruling when it comes to what companies can and cannot do to customers in the digital era of commerce. This is just wrong on so many levels and goes against the principals of any westernized democracy.
Guilty until proven innocent for buying a game is completely asinine. The retailer, if anyone, should be at fault for not caring about the release date.
Guilty until proven innocent for buying a game is completely asinine. The retailer, if anyone, should be at fault for not caring about the release date.
polyh3dron
Banned
This.
And I agree, with an increasing amount of digital marketplace transactions, there needs to be some consumer protection stuff happening on the government end because with all those EULAs and such it makes it a potentially hostile environment for consumers.
The retailer is being absolved of retribution because skel1ingt0n won't provide his proof of purchase, ergo the onus of responsibility is being passed on to him.
He said a few posts above that he did provide a receipt.
Legally his sale wasn't rung through until launch date. The OP knew this and played his yet to be licensed copy early. I doubt any of your argument would hold up in court. What happened to the OP is wrong but legally I think there is zero grounds here.
BruiserBear
Banned
That is not how this works. The customer is under no obligation to help turn in whatever store sells a product early.
Why is he asking for this? He originally didn't need anything of the sort.
It does work like that, apparently. When engaging with an on going service rendered, like Live. The store is selling you the license to play the game as well as the game, and a receipt is proof of purchase.
I don't agree with bricking his entire console though.
I just saw that. I was following an outdated train of conversation. Apologies.
TBH, I'd have tried customer support before buying a new console. You should ring them up now. No need to mention wrinkles, it'll just get confusing. Say you were mistakenly banned and ask to be unbanned. You have a retail disc and proof so shouldn't be an issue.
Then either return your new 360, or sell one of them or something.
Uno Venova
Banned
They do seem like a shill when they put blame on the victim or assume they lied about the story to make MS seem like they are in the right.
teacupcopter
Banned
I assume you are referring to the BS proof of purchase shit going on in this thread. While idiocy regarding piracy is the norm for Neogaf, in the real world if the defense of Microsoft's actions is "because he pirated it" they'd need to prove it. It's innocent until proven guilty (unless a corporation decides you are guilty apparently) and thus shouldn't have to fucking pony up anything regarding proof of purchase. Plus there are plenty of times I forget to get receipts on things anyway, I shouldn't expect to be shut out of a paid service because of it.
That's bullshit. No customer should be obliged to help a company with their detective work.
The seller did something Microsoft didn't want him to. It's completely unacceptable that this leads to a punishment of the buyer. There's absolutely no reason why a consumer should give a fuck about a companys wishes in regard to a street date.
Of course, he can't expect everything to work before the street date. Microsoft doesn't have to offer support, online services or necessary patches before the game has been officially released. But the consumer at least has the right to buy the game and put it in his console as soon as he sees a legal copy on a store shelf. A punishment of the buyer can't possibly be justified in that case.
That shouldn't even matter. There should've never been a banning in the first place, since there was no proof he was playing a pirated copy.
GruntOfAction
Member
Seriously, he paid money for a game he's no longer able to play, as well as any future online enabled game due to his Xbox Live account AND console being banned.
At most they could've suspended his ability to play Halo 4 online until the game officially released, then removed the suspension.
Reading this thread and the fact that the OP has not been unbanned makes me not desire to buy anything Microsoft related in the future, console wise.
polyh3dron
Banned
You're wasting your time making sense in here. Certain people, for whatever reason, want to defend Microsoft on this matter and are blaming the victim.
Nealand Liquor
Member
lol
LQX
Member
Seems so odd they would not just make the servers to play online unavailable until launch. And I imagine there are so many that get banned over this and have no real recourse or knowledge how to get it lifted.
And what business do you have banning anyone if you cannot distinguish the pirates from the legitimate customers? Sucks there are thieves using your software but that is no fault of legitimate customers.
Fucking think Microsoft, think.
And what business do you have banning anyone if you cannot distinguish the pirates from the legitimate customers? Sucks there are thieves using your software but that is no fault of legitimate customers.
Fucking think Microsoft, think.
Baconsammy
Banned
Zoe
Member
Can't do class action anymore.
I'm on vacation, skeilington's case is VERY complicated and his own story didn't help him at all. As I am sure he would admit himself. The work we're doing to fix his case is outside of normal policy. I will send a reminder mail. He is still at the mercy of his own actions however, which again, while unfortunate, are not in any way normal or represntative of a typical case.
Damage control? Wat. Read the whole thread plz. It is by no means cut and dry.
I mean no disrespect, but I do think it is very cut and dry.
1)Is the copy he played an original copy, just like any other retail copy?
2)Does he have a valid LIVE Gold(with time on it) account?
3)Is his console modified in any way?
If this 3 questions are answered in a satisfactory manner, then he should not have been banned in the first placed, and definitely should have been unbanned in a timely manner.
If he stole the copy, or killed someone for it, that falls outside of the realm of the Xbox LIVE realm and if you believe this is the case then you follow the standard procedure for this. If he bought it from a store ,the burden of playing a game before release should not fall unto him but unto the store. Much less, should he be "forced" to oust the store with a receipt in order to be reinstated.
1)Is the copy he played an original copy, just like any other retail copy?
2)Does he have a valid LIVE Gold(with time on it) account?
3)Is his console modified in any way?
If this 3 questions are answered in a satisfactory manner, then he should not have been banned in the first placed, and definitely should have been unbanned in a timely manner.
If he stole the copy, or killed someone for it, that falls outside of the realm of the Xbox LIVE realm and if you believe this is the case then you follow the standard procedure for this. If he bought it from a store ,the burden of playing a game before release should not fall unto him but unto the store. Much less, should he be "forced" to oust the store with a receipt in order to be reinstated.
He paid $60 to play your video game. You guys responded by banning his console and account. You said "relax. I will take care of it. Your copy is not legitimate - the store efffed up. But you will be unbanned soon." One month later, his account and console are still banned. Sounds pretty cut and dry to me. "His own actions" were buying and playing a video game.