Kai Cole, Joss Whedon's Ex-Wife, calls him out as a 'Hypocrite Preaching Feminism'
- Thread starter Goodstyle
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He literally was a man in a position of power over women.
entremet
Member
Curious, what if the women enjoyed sleeping with him and wanted to fuck him?
My issue with this interpretation is that it removes sexual agency and is rather sex negative.
Im not saying exploitation doesnt happen. Of course it does. But has Joss been accused of it?
Umm... Whedon punishes everyone for anything & everything. He likes tragedy more than keeping a happy status quo, especially when it comes to relationships.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
If you're married? Yeah, that's kind of the idea. A person is capable of restraint.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Are you seriously shouting at women because they disagree with your understanding of feminism?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
The cheating doesn't strike me as anti-feminist.
But the abuse of producing power over young women working under him to get them in the sack certainly treads the hypocrite line.
But the abuse of producing power over young women working under him to get them in the sack certainly treads the hypocrite line.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Dunno why I was surprised that he was fucking his fans.
Uh, yes?
lightskintwin
Banned
Really?
True Savior
Member
I imagine this is basically everyone on hollywood with a little power (the banging).
Isn't it very possible that those other women did indeed pursue him? I'm not going to jump to a conclusion there with so little info.
From what I read in the OP she isn't accusing him of abusing his power, is she?
If he actually slept with his actresses, as their boss he's crossing a line. Especially as their is a clear and very weird power issue at play. He literally is a patriarchal figure to them.
Are there any accusations of violating bodily autonomy or consent, here?
Feminism, to me, means treating those of all genders with equal respect and consideration. Cheating is a deep personal blow, but it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with thinking women in general are less than people.
Not defending Whedon here, though...I find using a position of power to hurt someone intolerable. But it's an interesting debate to talk about how that specifically relates to the concept of feminism. I think you can be a shitty person and still be a feminist.
Does cheating on your husband make you a bad feminist though?
DING. He can't say he's a feminist if he's taking advantage of women from a position of power and influence.
entremet
Member
Even if consensual?
I think its morally wrong, to be fair. Just trying to understand the feminist angle.
LumpOfCole
Member
If judging by nothing else but his Wonder Woman script, I would argue that Joss Whedon is way more into fetishized versions of strong and independent women than realistic versions of strong and independent women.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Yes, really lol
Saying "STOP" in all caps at someone like that is ridiculous
Maybe sit down and listen to women talk about feminism instead of lecturing them about it
Pretty much yeah. People in an employment chain like that, there can be nasty drama interfering with work, so if the producers found out they'd probably get really upset.
If Joss was using his power over actresses to sleep with them, then yes. He's a bad feminist.
This is certainly disappointing to hear, though considering the way Hollywood works, it definitely can't be called a surprise that no one would ever consider.
Still, it ultimately doesn't detract from the fact that Buffy entertained and inspired many people. As did Firefly, and as did the Avengers. It does tarnish the artist a bit, but doesn't negate the positive feelings that the art created in people.
Still, it ultimately doesn't detract from the fact that Buffy entertained and inspired many people. As did Firefly, and as did the Avengers. It does tarnish the artist a bit, but doesn't negate the positive feelings that the art created in people.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Ex wife paints ex husband in bad light. I am shocked.
ffejeromdiks
Banned
Oh no, he cheated on his wife! How will I ever enjoy his work again!?
Err, it being consensual is what you'd obviously hope would be the case, but yes, the power issue won't magically go away just because they're the ones being pursued.
nickinerdface
Banned
sorry, i guess i meant to say, dude who pretended he was a lovable geek feminist who used his non-threatening persona to prey on young and impressionable women* is a scumbag, i'm so surprised!
also i love this part lol:
like this isn't making a statement in and of itself. "there's inaccuracies, we won't say what they are, but anyways..."
I agree. I was replying more to that specific hypothetical without the power play.
lightskintwin
Banned
Nobody's lecturing anybody. I disagree that infidelity has anything to do with advocating for woman's rights on the basis of equality of the sexes.
Yes.
Because the power imbalance means that he holds a warped control over them. And it goes against everything he ever said about empowered women battling patriarchal institutions.
A woman cheating on a man isn't inherently anti feminist. Depends on context I'd guess.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I uh...think you're reading her message wrong. Might wanna take another stab.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Yes, because of the power dynamic at play.
A Link to the Past
Banned
That's a valid take in a vacuum, but Joss has had other examples of dodgy behavior.
It's a quote from his ex-wife. She clearly has an axe to grind. Treat the whole blog with caution.
This is not the place to be having this convo but... no she didn't, Buffy season 6 was amazing, and that WRONG sentiment is why she says she'll ruin YOU in her twitter bio.
Escape Goat
Member
I don't know. It sounds pretty human. Day after day you encounter sexually attractive people who want you (or what you can give them). Who wouldn't be tempted? I'm in no way saying this excuses infidelity or lack of self restraint but I see how easily this story could be true.
Black Widow in Age of Ultron makes way more sense now.
It's the phrasing that is telling
It's the phrasing that is telling
Too many fans hitched to him as the nerd savior. Turns out he's human.
Oh God, was Joss writing himself as Banner again...
I don't fucking care about how you want to deal with your relationship messes.
Did I ever call Joss an awful feminist for this? I mentioned what cheating could have to do with feminism. A lot of people think a big part of feminism is focusing on people (particularly women but not exclusively) being able to make informed decisions about their bodies. You know what is the opposite of an informed decision? Have unprotected sex with someone who lies to you about not having sex with anyone else and not having any STDs.
BuggyDClown
Member
😂 I know at least two people who will hate to read this, and probably refuse to believe it.
Not too shocked personally, his preaching always felt contradicted by some of the things in his movies. Especially recently. Especially if you read the scripts.
cubicle47b
Member
Yeah, I'm not sure why anybody is surprised by this revelation.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
You don't go around talking about being a feminist and do this stuff though. That's the difference. Would anyone care if this was like, Tom Brady or some other celebrity who has no political opinions of positions?
Apparently people really cant believe that someone who makes things they like is a douche bag.
Most obvious shit in the world.