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Kameo Delayed Indefinately
- Thread starter Hitler Stole My Potato
- Start date
siamesedreamer
Banned
WTF was I thinking when I had this on my "games to get in 2002" list?
Prine said:
Well, personally, Rare could've sold me an Xbox, becuase I really liked their efforts on N64 and SNES. A Conker game that I've already played isn't going to do that, though. A game like Kameo had a decent shot at it, and I would've certainly bought an Xbox if Rare would've come up with a sequel to either Perfect Dark, Banjo-Kazooie, Blast-Corps, Jet Force Gemini or Killer Instinct. So yeah, I'm disappointed with Rare. Is there something wrong with that?
Hellraizah
Member
Yet Nintendrones believed they were the second coming of Christ until they weren't doing games for their console anymore.Cruel Bastard Mario said:Well, Rare always was a poor man's bootleg ripoff of Nintendo
soundwave05
Member
Rare went on an incredible tear between 1994 and 1997 with the DKC games, Killer Instinct, Blast Corps, and GoldenEye.
I don't think it was just Nintendo fans, many people at the time believed they were the best developer on the planet during that stretch.
Unfourunately, for whatever reason it seems like Rare has gone to sh-t ever since they moved to their new, posh HQ around 1998/99. They've also lost a lot of their talent, specifically Martin Hollis who was head of the software department in the mid-1990s. He left at some point mid-way through Perfect Dark development I believe.
I don't think it was just Nintendo fans, many people at the time believed they were the best developer on the planet during that stretch.
Unfourunately, for whatever reason it seems like Rare has gone to sh-t ever since they moved to their new, posh HQ around 1998/99. They've also lost a lot of their talent, specifically Martin Hollis who was head of the software department in the mid-1990s. He left at some point mid-way through Perfect Dark development I believe.
soundwave05 said:
Martin Hollis hasnt exactly showered himself in glory since leaving rare, i dont think any drop in quality can be attributed to him alone.
Rare are still going through a big transition, they are definitely up to speed with the platform (see conker for proof of that) but MS has shaken things up a lot (they were obviously unhappy with the way things went in the first year or so), seems to me that MS is determind to get Rare back to producing the quality of titles seen on the N64, which is why they keep throwing Kameo back at them with more time, its also why they threw conker back when Rare wanted to release it as a straight port.
F
Folder
Unconfirmed Member
$375Firest0rm said:Over $300 million
FitzOfRage
Member
Socreges said:
Well as has been mentioned, Nintendo didn't get all of that money. Rare paid Nintendo for the stake they held in the company, then Microsoft paid Rare the $375 million for the whole company.
Also, the $1 million is how much Nintendo paid for the remainder of Retro, though they had already sunk an undisclosed amount into the company prior to that.
Of course none of that changes the fact that Rare is not looking like a great deal for MS. I mean even taking Nintendo out of it. Just the fact that MS reportedly paid $50 million for Bungie makes the Rare deal look pretty bad right now.
I think it really underscores one problem with buying big name developers. You can buy the rights to hit games, but you can't really buy the people and the chemistry that enabled them to make hits in the first place.
Duckhuntdog
Member
I think MS only paid 10 million for Bungie. Which makes the Rare deal even worse.
Jibber Hack
Member
I remember when Nintendo fans were crying out in anger when they sold Rare. "They lost their best asset," "the Cube is missing out on all these great titles." Well, technically MS still has all these great titles! They're just not making a difference this gen. I feel sorry for Rare fans that thought they were going to own this gen. There's always next gen though.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
FitzOfRage said:
Nintendo also didn't make off into the sunset with all that money. They had to pay a massive 150+million dollar fine in the european region for unscrupulous business practice (collusion + price fixing) across regions. I reckon that's why Rare was sold. Might as well - 2 birds, 1 stone
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
TheGreenGiant said:
its not like that fine came out of nowhere.. they already had money set aside for it before the whole rare snafu . . it was already factored into their balance sheet long before.
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Bregor said:
not really. It happened at the same time; and Nintendo would have had to factor into their math how they were going to pay for the fine - I read an editorial at the time that suggested that it helped factor into Nintendo's decision to let Rare go.
and for those guys who aren't sure about this legal action - it was pending and then the announcement from the courts came during the RARE negotations. Nintendo had expect maybe 40 million but it was a very substantial amount of money they were slapped with. Like 4-5 times. They DIDn't factor that.
UltimateMarioMan
Member
Isn't Retro like one tenth Rare's size? What are they doing all the time at Rare? Sexy Parties?!
Date of Lies
Banned
Hellraizah said:
Or until StarFox Adventures turned to shit.
I wouldn't have touched any Rare game after that.
Jibber Hack
Member
Should have remembered that all they did was not gold. Goldeneye was great, but I had my regrets with an overpriced Jet Force Gemini. Bought Star Fox and just wondered where they went wrong along the way. Was looking forward to their games though, after Grabbed by the Ghoulies my interest had lessened.
When did Spong get such a god-awful redesign?Deepthroat said:
TheGreenGiant
Banned
Koshiro said:
you clicked? God just shed a tear
now that I think about it. The Kameo team may have postponed the game so they could work with the Conker team on getting their game out and making sure it's AAA. Conker is the more important game anyway(Xbox LIVE play and everything). So I doubt we'll get Kameo as a launch game xenon because there won't be anybody working on it for a minute. We'll get it within 6 months to a year after launch though which is cool with me.
I mean...put it in perspective.
MS bought Bungie for $10million, got Halo and Halo 2
Nintendo bought Retro for $1million, got Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2
Sony buys a peice of Square for $124 million and gets ALL Final Fantasy games and ALL new Dragon Quest games and of course ALL of Japan's gamers.
MS bought Rare for $300+million and got Grabbed by the Ghoulies and a Conker Remake
It's ok to make fun and point out contradictions of Nintendo fans who gloat, but still.... presented with the facts it's clear that maybe buying Rare for all that much WASN'T the greatest idea.
Now, if they come out with the next Goldeneye for Xbox 2? Then maybe it won't be such a bad deal. But then that's a big IF -- especially if you consider how much $$ it takes to keep that company going. (hint: which is why Nintendo sold their part of them off in the first place)
MS bought Bungie for $10million, got Halo and Halo 2
Nintendo bought Retro for $1million, got Metroid Prime and Metroid Prime 2
Sony buys a peice of Square for $124 million and gets ALL Final Fantasy games and ALL new Dragon Quest games and of course ALL of Japan's gamers.
MS bought Rare for $300+million and got Grabbed by the Ghoulies and a Conker Remake
It's ok to make fun and point out contradictions of Nintendo fans who gloat, but still.... presented with the facts it's clear that maybe buying Rare for all that much WASN'T the greatest idea.
Now, if they come out with the next Goldeneye for Xbox 2? Then maybe it won't be such a bad deal. But then that's a big IF -- especially if you consider how much $$ it takes to keep that company going. (hint: which is why Nintendo sold their part of them off in the first place)
See when Square has "other things in development", they mean the next 10million selling Final Fantasy gamebitwise said:
When Rockstar has "other things in development", they mean the next 10million selling GTA game
when Rare has "other things in development", they have...hrm...what they have...Perfect Dark maybe? Some game we never heard of? In development for 6-8 years?
So for me, putting $300 million into Rare....here is what I'd expect:
Rare puts out the next big series (ala Halo or GTA)
or
Rare releases 10+ good solid titles a generation
....yeah...
vitaflo said:
Who said that they have to make it back after on ONE game? They've already made a few million from their little GBA games, and a few million from Grabbed by the Ghoulies. RARE is just warming up to the Xbox hardware and with PD0 being a launch title for Xenon I think it was a pretty solid investment. Sure they may have paid a lot of money out, but they'll definitely make it back.
Tenguman said:
They have new IPs. Something MGS is lacking, with only a few quality IPs uner their belt. Plus Rare do not stick to one genre like Bungie, Square and Retro.
I have faith in them, but if they cannot produce quality titles within Xenons first 2 years then i'll be dissapointed and realize that they are no good. But atm, Conker multiplayer is enough for me, they're still rocking
MrparisSM said:
But how long will it take? 5, 10, 15 years? Does the money they made on GBTG even make back the cost of development?
I'm sure Rare can make some decent games if they really try, but making $375 million in profit on games to offset the cost of the acquisition is a huge hill to climb, especially given the small output of released games from Rare.
It seems to me at this point, MS's goal here was to get some Xbox (or Xenon now) exclusives, not to make money on the deal itself. Because that ain't gonna happen for a long time, if ever.
vitaflo said:
Yes that's exactly it. Exclusives help drive hardware sales. Which creates a bigger userbase and those more royalties can be made on third party games. I would guess within the next 2 to 3 years, Microsoft will have made the majority of that money back. You don't spend $375 on a company and think you'll make that money back immediately. Microsoft isn't stupid, it's going to take a little time, but it will happen. Halo 1 alone grossed $225 million at retail alone, and that's with a 15 million install base. PD0 I think could do even better.
Wow, what a really ignorant thing to say.Prine said:
Bungie only makes FPSs? Square only makes RPGs? Retro only makes FPAs?
Bungie has made FPS, adventure/action and (THE BEST) real time strategy games. (and they're tiny compared to Rare)
Square makes RPGs, fighting games, racing games, side scrolling shooters and beat em ups.
Retro so far has only made FPAs, but they were working on an RPG and sport titles before being canceled.
soundwave05
Member
I think we'll have to wait and see with XBox 2 to see how the investment pans out because Rare has been utterly useless this generation on both GCN and XBox.
For MS though, really, even if it doesn't pan out, I doubt they lose much sleep over it.
They tried to buy Nintendo and Square, so when Rare came out on the open market, it's not entirely surprising that they jumped at the chance to get something.
For MS though, really, even if it doesn't pan out, I doubt they lose much sleep over it.
They tried to buy Nintendo and Square, so when Rare came out on the open market, it's not entirely surprising that they jumped at the chance to get something.
WE'RE GONNA MAKE IT ALL RIGHT
FOR THE DREAM OF OURS WE MUST TRY
KEEP THIS HOPE OF OURS ALIVE
JUST DO IT!
JUST BURNING RANGERS!
I wonder: who has made more off sales of Rare games in this generation? Microsoft or THQ?
It's probably Microsoft, but it's also probably not that wide a margin.
DFS.
FOR THE DREAM OF OURS WE MUST TRY
KEEP THIS HOPE OF OURS ALIVE
JUST DO IT!
JUST BURNING RANGERS!
I wonder: who has made more off sales of Rare games in this generation? Microsoft or THQ?
It's probably Microsoft, but it's also probably not that wide a margin.
DFS.
F
Folder
Unconfirmed Member
"Have you seen this news?"Ghost said:
"Yep."
"Shall I fire up the Slam-O-Tron 4000?"
"Already on it."
Fuck them.