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Killscreen: The Perverse Ideology of The Division (you should read this)

Doubling down on your ignorance? You just keep proving you lack perception and critical analysis skills. I invite you to educate yourself.
Take this invitation Jackdog. Find euphoria.

Cool piece, like others have said nothing they point is particularly surprising in something with Tom Clancy's name on it, but it's still interesting.

Totally agree that we need more writers doing stuff like this. When I can go on YouTube and see all the footage of a game I want before buying, or rent it at a RedBox, or play a beta, or share play it, written reviews are basically worthless if all they aim to be is thumbs-up, thumbs-down for consumers. Stuff like this is worth my time.

Edit: and reading through a thread of people posting evidence of why the article is wrong-minded or explaining why they agree is a hell of a lot more interesting than watching people squabble over a review score.
 

Jintor

Member
For me, the article wasn't about whether or not the game had an anti-whatever message, which everyone seems to have taken to like a duck to biohazard-infected water. The article was more about how, despite apparently not trying to be about anything, the game was itself necessarily infused with themes and messages simply by virtue of the clothes it chose to mask its systems in. That's the far more interesting takeaway to me than whether or not the game itself is leftist or self-deprecating or whatever. Which is why the counter of "Well there's crazed Militia/PMCs in here too!" or "but there are non-violent looters!" doesn't really, like, mean much to me. You're right - but we're not even talking about a right/left spectrum here anymore so much as we are talking about what kinds of messages we get out of them being there in this space.

Of course, one conclusion is that systems necessarily force a message on the story they convey whether intended or not. One example I think is that character relationships in games (at least between the Player and NPCs) are very often reduced to a systemic level which often undermines other messages. The old "insert coin, get affection" message.

Food for thought.
 
Great article OP, thanks for sharing.

Its been a while since i have seen a thread read entirely by a mod (or more than one) that takes no bullshit whatsoever. I think i saw 6 bans. Good job mods, thumbs up.
 
D

Deleted member 126221

Unconfirmed Member
For me, the article wasn't about whether or not the game had an anti-whatever message, which everyone seems to have taken to like a duck to biohazard-infected water. The article was more about how, despite apparently not trying to be about anything, the game was itself necessarily infused with themes and messages simply by virtue of the clothes it chose to mask its systems in. That's the far more interesting takeaway to me than whether or not the game itself is leftist or self-deprecating or whatever. Which is why the counter of "Well there's crazed Militia/PMCs in here too!" or "but there are non-violent looters!" doesn't really, like, mean much to me. You're right - but we're not even talking about a right/left spectrum here anymore so much as we are talking about what kinds of messages we get out of them being there in this space.

Of course, one conclusion is that systems necessarily force a message on the story they convey whether intended or not. One example I think is that character relationships in games (at least between the Player and NPCs) are very often reduced to a systemic level which often undermines other messages. The old "insert coin, get affection" message.

Food for thought.
Couldn't have said it better.
 

Gator86

Member
Ubisoft and Ubisoft Massive need to be better at this. I literally cannot believe the associate director and no one at any meeting said those things in the interview:



How oblivious and ignorant can you be when these people are in charge of multi-million international project.



How can it easily be defended? The game is set in the US and implicitly carries with it a host of cultural references by virtue of the context it places itself in.

Big game companies are just as oblivious as every other big company. Once the wheels start moving, no one dev complaining is gonna reset the project. I mean, look at shit like Battlefield Hardline. Ubi is pretty hit or miss with their games too. Assassin's Creed can handle stuff well sometimes, but then you have dreck like Far Cry 3 and it's abominable white savior narrative bullshit.
 
I think a lot of the problem lies in the fact that your Agent is entirely silent. You're railroaded into following the orders of the Division with nary a protest, which creates a sense of implied approval of how the Division operates and conducts itself.

The mute nature of your agent plays into how you are effectively putting more of yourself into the role. I've seen people going around killing all the animals they come across when it never even crossed my mind. The extent they allow you to role play is really minimal but actually evoked a kind of Bioshock type situation in my mind.

The whole sleeper agent idea and the background on the whole Division they slowly unfold over the game is really well structured to always keep you slightly on edge about the details of what you did before the outbreak. These are people who completely up and leave their old lives behind, approval doesn't come into it. It's a binary choice. Follow orders or die doing so.

I'd prefer to see this undertaken in a more linear game as the ambient and co-op nature of it makes it much harder for them to go down the endgame paths that Bioshock/Spec Ops/MGS got to do. Although it's also really nice to see a shooter like this put some effort into creating a really interesting world to experience rather than just make it bland as fuck.
 
Great article OP, thanks for sharing.

Its been a while since i have seen a thread read entirely by a mod (or more than one) that takes no bullshit whatsoever. I think i saw 6 bans. Good job mods, thumbs up.

IwvXHSp.jpg
 

III-V

Member
"The Division" to me is quite clear the state of emergency in NY and around the country. "The Division" is order 51. It is the evacuation and protection of the haves and the abandonment of the have-nots. Remember united we stand and divided we fall? The game is seeing the fall and the player character literally enforces the divide. Of course its politically loaded but not necessarily in the way the author sees it.
 

kyser73

Member
the game does happen to tread a lot of landmines... the base concept is basically 9/11 times 10 and probably couldn't have been made over five years ago.

end of the day though there's really not much "ideology" under the hood, if one could ever be culled from an MMO shooter

Ok, not to single this poster out, but I've seen this repeated several times on the thread.

All media products of a given society reflect elements of an ideology, be that the dominant one or a counter-cultural one. Video games are, almost without exception, reflective of capitalism and militarism in a completely uncritical fashion.

This article is looking at some specific elements of how this game reproduces some aspects of a dominant ideology, and also some of the reinforcement mechanisms that accompany it.

It's strongest when talking about the power of the State to override rights based on a crisis situation, and weakest when talking about clothing-based stereotyping.

What it isn't is a conspiracy piece - but it does presuppose that anyone reading it will be familiar with Critical Theory and the notion of power critiques as some of the responses ITT suggest that it's use of CT concepts are going to be missed by many people.

IMO as a piece of critique it's about as good as the source will let it be, and the writer needs to stick to critique rather than making some kind of change demand at the end. Zizek or Habermas it certainly isn't!
 
A critical analysis of something that feels more like product than an actual piece of art feels weird to me.

That said, people wanting games to be taken seriously and then cry when they are will forever be confusing.

I may not agree with the article but, I find it important that we analyze games.
 

TheBear

Member
I like the game but man they've really stepped in a pile of shit here.

It's interesting when you walk down the street and see some poor people looking in a bag and the only cue you are given to know if you should murder them is whether the reticule turns red.
 

TheYanger

Member
It kinda bothered me the first enemies in the game were stereotypical gangbangers

But they're not. They're covered up rioters, they're not wearing do rags or chains or anything like that, they're wearing hoodies and hats and masks, the standard "Trying not to let people see who I am" look, which you might associate with gangbangers, but I assure you is not exclusive to them. It's the general look of someone who knows they're doing something wrong and doesn't want to be identified or seen.

In fact, look at the picture I posted above, most aren't even 'hoodies' they're just jackets with hoods, the kerchiefs are really the only distinguishing feature.

You're not going around mowing down everyone that is stealing stuff, it's videogamey so I know it might be hard to convey, but the 'rioter' faction are the people that are causing harm to others with their actions. The people that are breaking into cars and buildings to get supplies aren't the ones you can shoot, you see that happen all the time to 'friendly' npcs in the game. The rioters you shoot in missions are doing things like kidnapping people, murdering people for their supplies, etc. Yeah, again, it's videogamey so you might not see every single one you run accross doing something terrible at that moment, but that is the notion behind the group and why they are 'bad'. Most of them you see on the streets are either holding people up, killing them, or looting their freshly killed bodies. If you come accross one holding a gun to someone's head they'll have a conversation between them, and then the rioter will shoot them in the fucking head - these are people who are using a bad situation to become worse. Does that make killing them right? That's moral relativism that is probably beyond the game, but the game does (once again) address the idea of a government agency with this kind of power as being a pretty fucked up idea to begin with, and it never says you're a good guy, it always is pretty adamant that you're SUPPOSED to be a good guy, but very well are not entirely that.
 
But they're not. They're covered up rioters, they're not wearing do rags or chains or anything like that, they're wearing hoodies and hats and masks, the standard "Trying not to let people see who I am" look, which you might associate with gangbangers, but I assure you is not exclusive to them. It's the general look of someone who knows they're doing something wrong and doesn't want to be identified or seen.

In fact, look at the picture I posted above, most aren't even 'hoodies' they're just jackets with hoods, the kerchiefs are really the only distinguishing feature.

You're not going around mowing down everyone that is stealing stuff, it's videogamey so I know it might be hard to convey, but the 'rioter' faction are the people that are causing harm to others with their actions. The people that are breaking into cars and buildings to get supplies aren't the ones you can shoot, you see that happen all the time to 'friendly' npcs in the game. The rioters you shoot in missions are doing things like kidnapping people, murdering people for their supplies, etc.

Maybe I'm not far enough to the game. The association was the sideways shooting really
 

TheYanger

Member
Maybe I'm not far enough to the game. The association was the sideways shooting really

Only the one type among them shoots that way, which I think is a fair representation, they're certainly mostly not black enemies, and while I agree that the stereotypical gangbanger type look is like that, I think that's more that it's that way for the same reasons it would be in real life if this happened: Anonymity. Along with that, the videogame aspect comes in with them all looking similar - that's because it's a fucking game, you've got to be able to identify them at a glance, in reality I highly doubt EVERY rioter would wear a mask and a hood of some sort, god knows they wouldn't, but it sure helps with keeping things identifiable in a game that is about identifying multiple types and gangs of enemies at a glance. I highly doubt half of the prisoners on Riker's choose to look like Luchador Bane ripoffs either, but I accept it in the game because it's easier to tell them from the other Rikers more easily that way.
 

kyser73

Member
You compared analyzing a video game offering a rich narrative, a believable world and political statements to "analyzing" toys found in happy meals.

There isn't much discussion to have with you.



You're welcome!

Happy Meals & their licenced toys are a case-study in reinforcement :)

Not that it will stop me buying the kids their Maccas on Tuesday after school :)
 

ryseing

Member
While I welcome more intelligent discussion about video games this article does not fit that criteria. Really feels like it's reading far too much into something that I don't believe is there. As mentioned, the author simply misinterprets certain aspects of the game to fit his narrative.

Like this

it actually sends the player to turn the adverts of Times Square back on

The mission's about turning the power on for crying out loud. Between this and that complete crap "The Order is 2deep4u" article, KillScreen continues to earn a place as a site I will continue to avoid. I'm not a fan of pretentious, "you just don't understand!!!!" writing.
 
The mission's about turning the power on for crying out loud. Between this and that complete crap "The Order is 2deep4u" article, KillScreen continues to earn a place as a site I will continue to avoid. I'm not a fan of pretentious, "you just don't understand!!!!" writing.

I thought this article was interesting (though I haven't played the game) but yeah, not typically a fan of Killscreen.

I thought the game looked pretty dull but I'm interested to try it now.
 

Skux

Member
Well, as far as making up excuses to kill hundreds of people go, it's at least one that's been thought through.
 
So a cherry picked article used to cover a narrative without properly doing the researched into said game?

As long as the author makes the square holes for the "evidence".
 

Lo_Fi

Member
I find it hard to visually distinguish the rioters from ordinary citizens. Accordingly, I'm always responding to being shot at. I've not once shot a bloke for rummaging in bins or looting, so that aspect of the article doesn't resonate with me.

Something that often gets lost in a lot of these discussions is that it's a videogame. And by that I don't mean it shouldn't be analysed or critiqued, but that in a videogame the player needs things to do. Gameplay and narrative aren't always in full alignment. In a film or book the concept of a US government operative performing summary executions on hundreds of US citizens would certainly be more extreme from a narrative/political standpoint, but in a videogame the player needs something to do for dozens of hours of gameplay, and in this particular game that 'something' is shooting NPCs.

It's the same problem I have with the 'Nathan Drake is a mass murderer' argument that gets wheeled out every few months. In those games I personally see that aspect of the gameplay as separate and distinct from the main narrative.

Overall though was an interesting read and a good way to start my Friday, cheers for bringing it to my attention OP.

It's called ludonarrative dissonance and dismissing it as "just a thing games do" is lazy and do games a disservice. Games are pretty great but they can be way better.
 
I find it hard to visually distinguish the rioters from ordinary citizens. Accordingly, I'm always responding to being shot at. I've not once shot a bloke for rummaging in bins or looting, so that aspect of the article doesn't resonate with me.

Something that often gets lost in a lot of these discussions is that it's a videogame. And by that I don't mean it shouldn't be analysed or critiqued, but that in a videogame the player needs things to do. Gameplay and narrative aren't always in full alignment. In a film or book the concept of a US government operative performing summary executions on hundreds of US citizens would certainly be more extreme from a narrative/political standpoint, but in a videogame the player needs something to do for dozens of hours of gameplay, and in this particular game that 'something' is shooting NPCs.

It's the same problem I have with the 'Nathan Drake is a mass murderer' argument that gets wheeled out every few months. In those games I personally see that aspect of the gameplay as separate and distinct from the main narrative.

Overall though was an interesting read and a good way to start my Friday, cheers for bringing it to my attention OP.

I don't really think that the "it's a videogame" argument is a satisfactory excuse, or at the very least it's a lazy one (not lazy by you personally, but as a line of argument in general). The Division puts great emphasis on the realism of it's setting, and then expects people to massively suspend disbelief about all of the patently illogical things it does. In Uncharted it's very clear that it's essentially an Indiana Jones movie, and makes no real pretensions to being grounded in reality. The issues that the a title raises are a product of The Divisions assertions of realism in its narrative and presentation, and the dissonance between those elements and it's gameplay.

The key problem with The Division's setting/mechanics relationship is that despite its pretensions to being a serious, grounded RPG, it limits player interaction with the world to shooting and scanning people; seriously, why can't you talk to anyone outside of cutscenes? Why doesn't the player character even have a voice? If Massive had implemented some form of interaction mechanics other than shooting everyone, they could have avoided this whole ultimate macho power fantasy vibe (and the unsavoury implications that stem from it) and made a much more interesting game about negotiating ones way through an anarchic environment while still having the option to act like a sanctioned, law abiding federal agent or to give in to the chaos and go renegade; you know, player choice, that most basic of RPG elements?

In the Dark Zone, you can be a white hat or a black hat, so why not extend that to the rest of the game? Adding an element of morality to the players behaviour would make the campaign more interesting. Do you as the player choose to work to restore law and order in a manner that protects the constitutional rights of citizens (as much as possible, at least), or do you go fully "ends justify the means" vigilante style.

In terms of encounter mechanics, years ago the game Narc had arrest mechanics that were actually more rewarding than killing, so there is no reason that The Division could not have had some form of gameplay mechanic to deal with situations other than just shooting everything. Of course, this would have required Massive to make an actual RPG with choices that extend beyond shoot/don't shoot.

The Division just seems like a core concept with so much potential, and reducing it to shoot&loot seems such a waste. An actual RPG in The Division setting, with Witcher 3 style of storytelling woven though it could be an incredible game (possibly what we will get with Cyberpunk 2077). But I guess a lot of people just want to kill stuff...
 

BigDes

Member
So...you're saying you hope games mature by ceasing on self reflection and critical analysis, and instead continue to be nothing more than shiny toys. Huh.

This thread is fucking depressing. Even criticism of incredibly blatant themes such as those in the Division is met with such strong pushback. Did other forms of literary criticism have such a difficult time establishing itself?
Literaure iself, as in non fiction literature only became seen as something respectable and worthy of merit in the last couple hundred years. Before that having the knowledge of letters and usng it on something as base as stories was seen as a huge waste of time at best and downright herettical at worst.

For all that he lived in the 1500s, Shakespeare only really became a thing in the Victorian era. Note im taljing western culture only here.

Edit: if during the Victorian era I suggested that serialiizedl novels that Dickens wrote, or the gothic horror of Dracula or Frankenstein or The Monk were worthyof serious literary critcism id have been laughed out of the room. Afterall these books were mass market trash to read in the train.
 

213372bu

Banned
The section of the article in the OP was enough for me.

I couldn't say I've ever disagreed more.

It's like the natural evolution of over-analyzing a work to draw conclusions that you're expected from college.

Not only do I disagree that the game is trying to cast this political ideology that he "demonizing human lives" and puts looters "fight for survival" as bad, (lol what?,) but it completely ignores every ECHO and Journal entry you pick up.

The first ECHOs and journal entries I got actually praised human life and highlighted morality.

The game also expresses progressive characters and the viewpoint generally associated with progressiveness. I literally laughed to myself after it mentioned that the nature of the gameplay invokes ideologies enforced by the "right-wing". Felt like reading a red scare article.

In short, I think the criticisms are bollocks, relying on ignoring a large sum of the game and drawing conclusions from personal experience. Never would I thought the use of gangs during a time of civil breakdown would be criticized.
 

bomma_man

Member
For me, the article wasn't about whether or not the game had an anti-whatever message, which everyone seems to have taken to like a duck to biohazard-infected water. The article was more about how, despite apparently not trying to be about anything, the game was itself necessarily infused with themes and messages simply by virtue of the clothes it chose to mask its systems in. That's the far more interesting takeaway to me than whether or not the game itself is leftist or self-deprecating or whatever. Which is why the counter of "Well there's crazed Militia/PMCs in here too!" or "but there are non-violent looters!" doesn't really, like, mean much to me. You're right - but we're not even talking about a right/left spectrum here anymore so much as we are talking about what kinds of messages we get out of them being there in this space.

Of course, one conclusion is that systems necessarily force a message on the story they convey whether intended or not. One example I think is that character relationships in games (at least between the Player and NPCs) are very often reduced to a systemic level which often undermines other messages. The old "insert coin, get affection" message.

Food for thought.

Well said
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
For me, the article wasn't about whether or not the game had an anti-whatever message, which everyone seems to have taken to like a duck to biohazard-infected water. The article was more about how, despite apparently not trying to be about anything, the game was itself necessarily infused with themes and messages simply by virtue of the clothes it chose to mask its systems in. That's the far more interesting takeaway to me than whether or not the game itself is leftist or self-deprecating or whatever. Which is why the counter of "Well there's crazed Militia/PMCs in here too!" or "but there are non-violent looters!" doesn't really, like, mean much to me. You're right - but we're not even talking about a right/left spectrum here anymore so much as we are talking about what kinds of messages we get out of them being there in this space.

Of course, one conclusion is that systems necessarily force a message on the story they convey whether intended or not. One example I think is that character relationships in games (at least between the Player and NPCs) are very often reduced to a systemic level which often undermines other messages. The old "insert coin, get affection" message.

Food for thought.
This almost exactly. Its not about if the game was "intentionally" trying to do any of this, really
 

213372bu

Banned
This almost exactly. Its not about if the game was "intentionally" trying to do any of this, really

Yet what are you analyzing if you draw analysis from your own personal experience, ideologies, and slyly ignoring the realities of the game.

It's exactly like college analysis papers. Yeah you have to subvert critical points against you, but you still write out that analysis and make that triangle fit through the square peg.


To me, analysis worth my time is perspectives that conform to all the facts and draw out a recurring pattern, the missteps present etc. That's the type of analysis you get on lots of postmortems. Stuff that you actually gain knowledge from and learn.

I'm not gaining some magic insight because I see some author hide behind his political ideology and slants. Even in the article, which I unfortunately skimmed over to make sure, he never makes his point clear that he's forcing an analysis from a slant etc. It's actually a review.

Taking into actual consideration that the game pushes the "right-wing perverse" ideology is actually nonsense, and the entirety of the game disproves this.

In fact, I think student analysis, including this article/review, are the epitome of surface inspection. If you experience a moment where you turn on the lights of Time Square to help citizens, I don't want to hear that we're doing it to spread the conspiracy of corporate greed.

That shit isn't in the game, so mentioning it doesn't make you clever. Deeply analyzing a surface observation is juvenile.
 

T.O.P

Banned
While I welcome more intelligent discussion about video games this article does not fit that criteria. Really feels like it's reading far too much into something that I don't believe is there. As mentioned, the author simply misinterprets certain aspects of the game to fit his narrative.

Like this

The mission's about turning the power on for crying out loud. Between this and that complete crap "The Order is 2deep4u" article, KillScreen continues to earn a place as a site I will continue to avoid. I'm not a fan of pretentious, "you just don't understand!!!!" writing.

That litterally made me laugh out loud
 

T.O.P

Banned
Very interesting read. If only he had actually played the game through and realized his points were already being made...

Fun facts, this counts as a review on Metacritic

a review

Here's a great analysis on the FBI's Counter-Terrorism game by Super Bunnyhop that I'm watching.

In it he goes over the material and points out the hypocrisy, mixed messaging, propaganda etc. without having to hold strange perspectives on aspects of the game or throw flat-out misinformation to prove a point.

Cheers, i'll check it out when i'm from work, sounds like a proper one
 

Tomeru

Member
Great way to take a video game and turn it into a political incident. Why start a fire when there is none? The whole article, while is nice if not read in a video-game context, looks like it was designed from the top to anti video game prop. You can change the Division to Nathan Drake or any other game where we shoot and loot, and protest about why its ok for us the players to do that, and every npc is treated like the enemy, and how that makes us look moraly superior.

Or you can just play the fucking game. The state of vg journalism has worsen with the years. And its all because of politics.
 

Kyonashi

Member
Totally expected this to be a Slavoj Zizek thread with the talk of perversion and ideology.

Kill Screen is always a great read, looking forward to the magazine relaunch.
 

valkyre

Member
While I welcome more intelligent discussion about video games this article does not fit that criteria. Really feels like it's reading far too much into something that I don't believe is there. As mentioned, the author simply misinterprets certain aspects of the game to fit his narrative.

Like this



The mission's about turning the power on for crying out loud. Between this and that complete crap "The Order is 2deep4u" article, KillScreen continues to earn a place as a site I will continue to avoid. I'm not a fan of pretentious, "you just don't understand!!!!" writing.

My man... i called it myself in the early stages of this thread.

This article, is nothing but pretentious embarrassment, trying to use flashy words and nonsensical arguments, just so it can fit right into the author's agenda. (who by the way, we have to remind people, he obviously never finished the game based on the things he wrote)

I did not know about the "The Order is 2deep4u" thing, but after your mention, it doesnt even surprise me.

I guess Kill Screen is "2deep4me", so I will avoid their pretentious "analysis" for good...
 
I like the game but man they've really stepped in a pile of shit here.

It's interesting when you walk down the street and see some poor people looking in a bag and the only cue you are given to know if you should murder them is whether the reticule turns red.

That's true, but it's only confusing when there's a couple of "bad guys" doing the same - except looting a body. With that being the only difference, I usually have to check the reticule. I'll often ignore them, though.

On the other hand, when they're continuously bashing a person's head in with a bat, shooting at cops, executing civilians, or opening fire on me without provocation (you know, literally everything else but the example from the first paragraph), there's really no dillema. Is there?

I think the article missed some obvious cues and I'm certain they didn't listen to all the phone conversations and other stuff, which makes you less sympathetic to these "innocent bystanders". The protagnosits in cut scenes often speak of their connection to the people, not "assets" or "property", so I can't really agree with the article on that point either.

EDIT: I did notice some of the "bad guys' " intentions were noble enough, but their methods never were (haven't finished the story yet, so I may change my mind).
 

Mman235

Member
The state of vg journalism has worsen with the years. And its all because of politics.

Yes the problem with game journalism isn't that the shit conditions and pay have caused the best writers to move to other mediums, or the still blatant links to publishers, it's that they granted the medium enough respect to dare ask a question beyond "is it fun?"

Nevermind that games journalism has always been crap, and it's actually got better recently due to a rise in voices catering to more niche interests rather than just being all things for everybody.
 

Razgreez

Member
As many have pointed out it is as if the author has barely played the game and definitely not followed the actual story (listened to the voice recording, watched the echos etc.) The writing is poor and the conclusions which are lept towards are laughable.

While many have disproven just about every argument the author attempts to make I have to add this one. One of these "friendly looking passive idiotic citizens", as the author puts it, came up to me asking for some food, or water etc. I proceeded to simply ignore and got a "oh well F*&$ you too" in response as I was walking away. So very friendly and passive no? hahaha
 

Tomeru

Member
Yes the problem with game journalism isn't that the shit conditions and pay have caused the best writers to move to other mediums, or the still blatant links to publishers, it's that they granted the medium enough respect to dare ask a question beyond "is it fun?"

I'm not saying there is no place for that, I'm just stating my opinion. I would rather read and talk about games being games and not try to turn it into the reasons we all play vicious criminals with a license to kill in a modern capitalistic environment, while ignoring moral and civil rights to the utmost, only to get our hands at that elusive and epic loot.

Yes, the other option is much more stimulating and constructive to why we play video games, and it should be our focus from here on out.

/s

We can talk about work conditions and pay all day long. But does it have to do with The Division, or any other game?
 
As many have pointed out it is as if the author has barely played the game and definitely not followed the actually story (listened to the voice recording, watched the echos etc.) The writing is poor and the conclusions which are lept towards are laughable.

While many have disproven just about every argument the author attempts to make I have to add this one. One of these "friendly looking passive idiotic citizens", as the author puts it, came up to me asking for some food, or water etc. I proceeded to simply ignore and got a "oh well F*&$ you too" in response as I was walking away. So very friendly and passive no? hahaha

I've never actually ignored one, so this was interesting to me!

Also, don't ignore them, they give you cool stuff.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Literaure iself, as in non fiction literature only became seen as something respectable and worthy of merit in the last couple hundred years. Before that having the knowledge of letters and usng it on something as base as stories was seen as a huge waste of time at best and downright herettical at worst.

This is kind of ignoring the historical socio-economic realities that widespread literacy wasn't possible to even be a thing until after the invention of the printing press made mass ownership of reading matter possible.

Also as a side note, Shakespeare wasn't 'only a thing' in the Victorian era, he was popular in his original medium - the stage - pretty much continuously since his very first performances. The popularity in reading his works rather than just seeing them performed was similarly a result of the printing press contribution to societal culture.
 

Razgreez

Member
I've never actually ignored one, so this was interesting to me!

Also, don't ignore them, they give you cool stuff.

I don't normally ignore them but you sometimes hear the sound indicating a point of interest (in this case a citizen seeking help) and are too busy to stop for them. You either get gracious thanks (for stopping and helping) or an insult or sarcastic remark flung your way if you don't oblige.

I've also had multiple occasions where a civilian has approached me while in eye-shot of enemies and, while I've waited for them to dawdle towards me and away from danger, end up being shot dead in cold blood by a riker or rioter. Rikers are particularly brutal.

They also don't always give fashionable gear but often useless worn items as well though.
 
Oh, people are agreeing? I thought it was satire.

You wander around a big world picking up loot and shooting dudes. RELAX.

I'm pretty much this as well.

I just enjoy the gameplay and aesthetic of the game and pretty much ignore the context of the setting completely lol

I'm not a right leaning person, but if this game was about using legislation and government authority to resolve a crisis, I would probably die of boredom.

Just gimme a gun and let me shoot some dudes in the face with my friends.
 
I'm pretty much this as well.

I just enjoy the gameplay and aesthetic of the game and pretty much ignore the context of the setting completely lol

I'm not a right leaning person, but if this game was about using legislation and government authority to resolve a crisis, I would probably die of boredom.

Just gimme a gun and let me shoot some dudes in the face with my friends.
you're free to do that. but why do you want people to stop talking about games?
 
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