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[duckroll]

3D seems to have done away with that from what I played in the demo. Play haphazardly got me killed, playing with skill got me through without a scratch (except for the boss but, even then I only took a small amount of damage).

It's a Osaka Team game, so of course it punishes players heavily for randomly mashing buttons. Re:CoM and BbS both require proper approach to battles to win. The early parts of BbS are basically unbeatable unless the player actually understands how the game systems work.

Reward was poor word choice on my part, but the benefits you get for playing well can be overshadowed by the ease of just mashing attack and cure in KH1 and especially 2, depending on your playstyle. When they removed things like the bonus XP for narrowly dodging and perfect blocks from KH1, it made brute force more attractive to blow through the game if you were only playing it for the sake of completion like most of the people I know.

Yeah, I agree that they're generally poor balanced between challenge and reward. KH2 in particular had such poorly designed QTEs that it became easier to just mash the QTE button (which never changes!) whenever you expect one to happen, rather than to actually pay attention to timing and skill. Good thing BbS changed this too.

 

[kayos90]

It's a Osaka Team game, so of course it punishes players heavily for randomly mashing buttons. Re:CoM and BbS both require proper approach to battles to win. The early parts of BbS are basically unbeatable unless the player actually understands how the game systems work.

Honestly, the Osaka team reminds me heavily of Bungie in the way that they have the core concepts of what they want down and then execute the gameplay flawlessly based on those ideas while removing anything extraneous, stuff like Reaction commands.

 

[wrowa]

Is the camera zoomed in as closely as in the demo in the final game? I really disliked the demo because of it.

 

[branny]

I adore BBS and will be getting this ASAP. If it were even only half as good, it'd still be the second best KH game ever. Not really holding my breath, though.

 

[ZenaxPure]

BBS > Re:Coded > KH1 = Re:CoM > CoM > Days > KH2

What I've played of 3D puts it on par with BBS, but I've yet to go through the whole thing.

Man there is so much truth in this post, it's amazing, I wouldn't change a thing. Though, I would put about 20 more > between CoM and Days, KH2 and Days are just on some other level of terrible (in regards to gameplay).

I see that people have enjoyed the final mix version though, what's so special about it exactly? Were there gameplay changes that made it more than just spamming triangle a lot?

Also slightly more on topic, is there any core differences in gameplay between Riku and Sora, or are they fairly similar? It's something I've been curious about for a while, but there doesn't seem to be much info about it. I've been kinda wondering how I wanted to play them, after having so much fun with Aqua on my BBS critical play through I was pretty curious if one of them was effective with magic. Maybe focus on magic with Sora and melee with Riku, or something like that.

 

[Seda]

Also slightly more on topic, is there any core differences in gameplay between Riku and Sora, or are they fairly similar? It's something I've been curious about for a while, but there doesn't seem to be much info about it. I've been kinda wondering how I wanted to play them, after having so much fun with Aqua on my BBS critical play through I was pretty curious if one of them was effective with magic. Maybe focus on magic with Sora and melee with Riku, or something like that.

"Riku can form dream-eater-partnerships, he can assume a "command style" based on his dream eater partner. Sora has different combo (Limit) attacks he can do with his dream eaters."

 

[EloquentM]

So no one here ended up importing the JPN version of the game when it release? Not even you duckroll?

 

[storafötter]

Just got a mail today that my copy is shipped. Hopefully I get it earlier than the release date! Cant wait

 

[Seven Force]

I see that people have enjoyed the final mix version though, what's so special about it exactly? Were there gameplay changes that made it more than just spamming triangle a lot?

It was rebalanced a bit to make Sora a little less overpowered than he is in vanilla KH2. Has the best implementation of Critical Mode in the series to boot, too.

 

[ZenaxPure]

"Riku can form dream-eater-partnerships, he can assume a "command style" based on his dream eater partner. Sora has different combo (Limit) attacks he can do with his dream eaters."

That doesn't explain much

I assume limits are the things from the demo where you dance with your cat or whatever, felt really useless to me and messed with the flow of things. I was thinking more along the lines of different abilities (similar to how some magic/skills were tied to only Ven, Terra, or Aqua in BBS) or any key stat differences. Things of that ilk.

It was rebalanced a bit to make Sora a little less overpowered than he is in vanilla KH2. Has the best implementation of Critical Mode in the series to boot, too.

Interesting, I've watched a few videos from it in the past (mostly to see the fight with Terra) and it looked really similar to the vanilla version so I was never that interested in it.

 

[Seda]

That doesn't explain much

Seven Force, help me out, I haven't played the game or demo.

 

[Seven Force]

That doesn't explain much

I assume limits are the things from the demo where you dance with your cat or whatever, felt really useless to me and messed with the flow of things. I was thinking more along the lines of different abilities (similar to how some magic/skills were tied to only Ven, Terra, or Aqua in BBS) or any key stat differences. Things of that ilk.

The differences between the two aren't nearly as pronounced as the ones between the BBS trio. I don't think there's any major stat differences between the two, but both of them do have exclusive commands/abilities. Sora retains a lot of Ven's exclusive commands & abilities (i.e. Tornado, Faith, Glide etc.) while Riku gets some of Terra's exclusive attack commands (Meteor, Sacrifice), and some of Aqua's movement/defensive (Barrier, Doubleflight, etc.) maneuvers. Aside from that (and the aforementioned limits) there's not really any other major differences.

 

[ZenaxPure]

The differences between the two aren't nearly as pronounced as the ones between the BBS trio. I don't think there's any major stat differences between the two, but both of them do have exclusive commands/abilities. Sora retains a lot of Ven's exclusive commands & abilities (i.e. Tornado, Faith, Glide etc.) while Riku gets some of Terra's exclusive attack commands (Meteor, Sacrifice), and some of Aqua's movement/defensive (Barrier, Doubleflight, etc.) maneuvers. Aside from that (and the aforementioned limits) there's not really any other major differences.

I see! That seems like enough of a difference between the 2 for me. Can't wait to get my hands on the game, I've basically ran out of stuff to do in BBS ;-;. Haha

 

[Electivirus]

I'm still working on trying to get Ultima Weapon in BBS, but it's rather tedious. >.>

 

[duckroll]

Also slightly more on topic, is there any core differences in gameplay between Riku and Sora, or are they fairly similar? It's something I've been curious about for a while, but there doesn't seem to be much info about it. I've been kinda wondering how I wanted to play them, after having so much fun with Aqua on my BBS critical play through I was pretty curious if one of them was effective with magic. Maybe focus on magic with Sora and melee with Riku, or something like that.

The main difference is how they use their Dream Eater party members as special attacks. For Sora, when he uses the special bar to pull off special attacks, he usually "rides" that Dream Eater to do a special type of attack which lasts until the meter is drained. This would be similar to the summons in BbS I think. For Riku, he absorbs the Dream Eater instead and does different/stronger attacks based on the type of Dream Eater he absorbed. This also lasts until the meter is drained. This would be similar to the Command Styles in BbS I believe.

I haven't actually played the game yet, but that's my understanding of the systems so far.

 

[Ghost23]

Can someone who has played 3D rank the games?

 

[tkscz]

It's a Osaka Team game, so of course it punishes players heavily for randomly mashing buttons. Re:CoM and BbS both require proper approach to battles to win. The early parts of BbS are basically unbeatable unless the player actually understands how the game systems work.



Yeah, I agree that they're generally poor balanced between challenge and reward. KH2 in particular had such poorly designed QTEs that it became easier to just mash the QTE button (which never changes!) whenever you expect one to happen, rather than to actually pay attention to timing and skill. Good thing BbS changed this too.

I've never played Birth By Sleep, no PSP. Is it really that good? And is Days really that bad?

 

[WrenchNinja]

Yes and yes.

 

[ZenaxPure]

For Sora, when he uses the special bar to pull off special attacks, he usually "rides" that Dream Eater to do a special type of attack which lasts until the meter is drained. This would be similar to the summons in BbS I think. For Riku, he absorbs the Dream Eater instead and does different/stronger attacks based on the type of Dream Eater he absorbed. This also lasts until the meter is drained. This would be similar to the Command Styles in BbS I believe.

That's what I gathered based on what Seda quoted as well. It makes me a bit more excited for Riku. As funny as it was to watch Sora dance with a cat in the 3D demo I didn't really enjoy it that much, and similarly I didn't really enjoy stuff like D-linking in BBS. Command styles on the other hand I totally love how they change combat mechanics around.

I've never played Birth By Sleep, no PSP. Is it really that good? And is Days really that bad?

Yes and yes. Birth By Sleep is amazing for the reasons everyone has said before, but Days is really that bad because not only is the tutorial like 7 hours long (THERE IS 20 MINUTE TUTORIAL ABOUT HOW TO JUMP) instead of forcing you to learn mechanics and skillfully play it bumps up the "challenge" by giving enemies obscene amounts of HP which boils down to a lot of button mashing.

 

[Lijik]

Eh, could we please stop with this nonsense. Only Sora is Sora (and Roxas is his Nobody). That's hardly a superhard concept to grasp. The rest are completely separate good guys.

Its not that ridiculous when you consider Ven is inside Sora is inside Roxas but when Xion started siphoning Sora from Roxas, Ven was no longer inside Roxas but instead inside Xion.

 

[duckroll]

Days is fucking horrible. If you value your time and sanity, don't ever play it. That's all I can say.

 

[Perfect Cha0s]

I've never played Birth By Sleep, no PSP. Is it really that good? And is Days really that bad?

Days is simply.. mediocre, I would say. It was cool to get a full KH game on the DS, but it doesn't really hold up after the honeymoon period.

BBS is widely regarded as the best in the series, at least, in the combat department. If you have any way to get your hands on a PSP, it's a top-notch game, for sure.

 

[Seven Force]

Can someone who has played 3D rank the games?

Well, my rankings usually fluctuate a bit, but as it stands now for me:

Birth by Sleep
Kingdom Hearts II (+ Final Mix)
Kingdom Hearts
3D
Re:Coded
Re:Chain of Memories
358/2 Days

What bothers me about 3D is that it's kind of light on content compared to Birth by Sleep, and doesn't really retain a lot of the customization aspects that made BBS a joy to play. There's also a few technical issues that bug me, as well. (Namely, the frame rate.)

 

[Lijik]

Days is so depressing because I feel like they had a blueprint for a really great game in place and then they fucked it all up with a terrible tutorial, tedious mission design, a horrible flow of events between missions, and other problems. In the last 4 hours theres a few clever bosses but thats too little too late.

 

[duckroll]

Days is so depressing because I feel like they had a blueprint for a really great game in place and then they fucked it all up with a terrible tutorial, tedious mission design, a horrible flow of events between missions, and other problems. In the last 4 hours theres a few clever bosses but thats too little too late.

Sounds like they didn't have a blueprint for a really great game after all! Lolol.

 

[Levyne]

I liked the last ~8% of Days

 

[Lijik]

Sounds like they didn't have a blueprint for a really great game after all! Lolol.

Well the basic idea behind a mission based Kingdom Hearts game, and the game's general mechanics are both really appealing to me. I remember in an early mission theres the option to go off and fight a difficult heartless and you have to put a little strategy into dodging/attacking him and I thought "Wow this could be great"
But instead of expanding on that, 90% of the game is "Mash attack on these braindead guys" and investigation missions.

 

[MAtgS]

For comparison:

Sora's specialty is like the double team moves in KH2
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBEuU-Vw1Gs&feature=related#t=00m56s

Riku's is like the fighting style changes in BbS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9udhjGVShMY&feature=related

Edit: ugh, thread moves too fast

 

[Data West]

I know everyone's talking about Tron and TWEWY, but I really want to do that Three Musketeers stuff. I loved the 93 movie as a kid.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

KH>KH2FM>BBS/BBSFM>KH2>Re:COM>Com>Days

Have not played Coded or KH1FM :3. Days is the only truly bad game in the series imo. KH2 vanilla is kinda dissapointing but FM has just so much stuff and improvements its insane. KH1 while not having best battle system is imo most charming, well paced, best level design, good FF cameos, best enemy design, good endgame (tho not the best) and by faaaaar the best Disney worlds. Plus I guess there is most nostalgia value.

 

[Lijik]

I really should try out KH2 FM at some point.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

I really should try out KH2 FM at some point.

You really should, especially if you liked KH2. There is an english translation patch available too.

I was such a sucker on KH back in the day. I bought KH2 3 times. American, Pal platinum and FM versions.

 

[Famassu]

Its not that ridiculous when you consider Ven is inside Sora is inside Roxas but when Xion started siphoning Sora from Roxas, Ven was no longer inside Roxas but instead inside Xion.

Ven isn't inside Sora, Sora is only safe-keeping Ven's heart (just like he did Kairi's in I). That doesn't mean Ven = Sora. Xion also isn't Sora, she's a puppet of the Organization XIII which they tried to turn into a kind of artificial Sora (a puppet with the power of a keyblade) that they could control to complete their plans.

 

[branny]

I'd probably rate the series BBS>>>>>>>>>>>KH1>Re:CoM=KH2>CoM>>>>>Days from what I've played.

I haven't touched Re:coded yet. BBS is so good that it's probably a freak accident. I'd love to play the Final Mix versions of KH1 and KH2 that NA never got, but I don't really like the original versions enough to bother with their superior incarnations. I think the card battle system in CoM and Re:CoM is really underrated, but the surrounding game isn't the most engaging.

What bothers me about 3D is that it's kind of light on content compared to Birth by Sleep, and doesn't really retain a lot of the customization aspects that made BBS a joy to play. There's also a few technical issues that bug me, as well. (Namely, the frame rate.)

Wow, that sucks. The demo has my alarms beeping (finicky and possibly overpowered flowmotion stuff, claustrophobic viewing area, wonky camera, stupid dream eaters, mandatory touchscreen crap), but my love for BBS is still keeping me hopeful that I'll enjoy it. =\

 

[Seven Force]

Wow, that sucks. The demo has my alarms beeping (finicky and possibly overpowered flowmotion stuff, claustrophobic viewing area, wonky camera, stupid dream eaters, mandatory touchscreen crap), but my love for BBS is still keeping me hopeful that I'll enjoy it. =\

Well, in regards to flowmotion, using it for attacking gets more and more useless throughout to game to the point that it'll probably get you killed in the final world. Everything but the wall kicking can actually be disabled if you like, though.

 

[ZenaxPure]

Well, in regards to flowmotion, using it for attacking gets more and more useless throughout to game to the point that it'll probably get you killed in the final world. Everything but the wall kicking can actually be disabled if you like, though.

To be perfectly honest I thought it was underpowered in the demo myself. Normal combos did significantly more damage than the flowmotion and in much less time. The only times I found it useful was for doing AOE attacks, closing the distance to an enemy, and when everything else was on cooldown. I think that is how i will end up using it in the main game itself as well.

 

[Famassu]

Wow, that sucks. The demo has my alarms beeping (finicky and possibly overpowered flowmotion stuff

At first I wasn't so sure about the flowmotion stuff either, but now that I've played the demo several times, it's like second nature. It's only finicky in the beginning when you have a harder time controlling it, now that I've mastered it the flowmotion stuff is awesome. Also, I remember someone saying that the offensive flowmotion attacks are only overpowered in the beginning and get a lot less useful as you advance in the game.

claustrophobic viewing area

I noticed it's only too close to Sora when you are just running around. When you lock on to enemies or do flowmotion stuff, it pulls back a little, making it much less claustrophobic.

wonky camera

This is something that ever KH has and at least I've already learned to handle it & live with it.

mandatory touchscreen crap),

You don't have to do it if you don't want to.

From all I've read, 3D seems like BBS without command melding and less volume, but with some improvements to gameplay & level designs (closer to 1 than 2).

 

[Artemisia]

The game looks so great and the demo was a lot of fun.

However, I never played any KH game before so I'm not sure if I should pick this up or not.

 

[Seven Force]

You don't have to do it if you don't want to.

It's required in quite a few places, actually.

 

[Lijik]

Ven isn't inside Sora, Sora is only safe-keeping Ven's heart (just like he did Kairi's in I). That doesn't mean Ven = Sora. Xion also isn't Sora, she's a puppet of the Organization XIII which they tried to turn into a kind of artificial Sora (a puppet with the power of a keyblade) that they could control to complete their plans.

Okay you realize how that sounds even crazier and more nonsensical than "Everyone is Sora", right?

 

[branny]

Well, regarding my flowmotion comment, I meant overpowered in the sense that it seems like it's going to make other kinds of traditional endgame KH traversal rewards like gliding worthless once it's fully developed--I mean, you can literally infinity jump in the demo if you have a wall. While I certainly appreciate the extra freedom, how do you design interesting levels and fights around all that mobility? Are there entire areas without ground, like in Otogi 2?

"Finicky" was describing the context-sensitive nature of flowmotion attacks that I most certainly will not rely on in the full version of the game. I barely used them in the demo after trying them once, so I have no clue if they're weak or not. (I do like how they implemented a type of "triangle button" throwing with that one particular enemy, though.) I had trouble figuring out how to reliably go into the flowmotion dash versus the regular dodge roll, too. I haven't played the demo a million times, so I'm sure it's stuff I will eventually get used to. There is just a very measured and deliberate pace that I liked in BBS, so I'm slightly worried things might go a little too KH2 in KH3D based on how unwieldy some bits of the demo initially felt to me.

As for the camera, I think it's just an issue with the area in the demo. It's still close to your character like in BBS, but the 3DS's resolution hinders things a bit. Like, you can only see two deck commands on the UI in 3D's demo while you can see three in BBS. Stuff like that. I'm actually fine with camera in this series and have the patience to cope with annoying nonsense like KH1's Cave of Wonders guardian on Expert. It just seemed to be a little more wonky due to the flowmotion needing to interact with so much level geometry.

The touchscreen stuff is weird to me, too, because the reality shift or whatever has the option to use X+A to go into it (yay) but then requires you to use the touchscreen to shoot and aim the barrel thing (boo). It just seemed really underdeveloped and gimmicky in the demo. The last thing I wanted was to be given 100 Acre Wood minigame flashbacks.

I couldn't get shotlock working in the demo either. I refuse to believe it's gone.

I'm still extremely excited for the game, don't get me wrong.

 

[Ghost23]

8.5 from IGN

 

[Seda]

8.5 from IGN

Here's the summary for those too lazy to click/read.

Presentation 8
The story is silly, but hits the right notes and can be quite moving at times. The Memento system helps bridge the gap between new and old players.

Graphics 8.5
Gorgeous graphics that rank among the best on the system and really bring the familiar worlds/characters to life. Occasionally an environment doesn’t hold up, but overall it’s a great-looking package.

Sound 9
Lovely music from veteran KH composer Yoko Shimomura - “Dearly Beloved” will still bring you to tears with its haunting melody. The voice acting is spot-on and it’s a nice touch that much of the original cast has returned.

Gameplay 8.5
The Drop system and Flowmotion combat are great additions to the real-time RPG system KH innovated so many years ago.

Lasting Appeal 8.5
Even though there are only seven worlds, the parallel storylines, plethora of hidden treasure chests and multiple difficulty levels make for a pretty lengthy experience.

 

[Celine]

Why isn't OP Bebpo?
I click into KH OT only for him lol

 

[Seda]

Why isn't OP Bebpo?
I click into KH OT only for him lol

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36333208&postcount=1

 

[Sora_N]

8.5 from IGN

My body is ready for this game..

Spoiler

in my backlog

I haven't even finished 2 or touched CoM, ReCoded or BBS yet. Also don't have Days lol.

 

[The Last One]

Nice score from IGN.

 

[Coldsnap]

Gonna have to wait for the XL to purchase this one. I was my Tron world in the largest screen possible.

 

[Tyeforce]

This game isn't going to spoil The World Ends with You for me if I haven't finished it yet, is it?

 

[Thoraxes]

I've never played Birth By Sleep, no PSP. Is it really that good? And is Days really that bad?

BBS is the best, and Days wasn't great, but I liked the expansion of the O-XIII in it at any rate. Fleshing out the Nobodys was something I was interested in from a story-perspective (and no, i'm not one of those people with a raging Roxas hard-on).

This game isn't going to spoil The World Ends with You for me if I haven't finished it yet, is it?

Given the appearance of some characters i've seen in screenshots, it'll spoil some of it. I don't think it'll ruin the ending though. It really just depends on how far you are in the game.