Kotaku: SCEA's Koller on the state of PS Vita
- Thread starter Father_Brain
- Start date
That's some crazy shit.
Opus Angelorum
Member
That's...Sony.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
I was reading an article about the state of Sony. It mention Kaz taking over for the incumbent and that his first order of business would be the Vita as it the most recent major hardware launch. As such, Kaz is going to have vested interest in Vita succeeding. On that same note though, I feel with what we've seen from the Vita the rest of Sony are lukewarm to it at best.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
I'm brown and live in a city... I have a PS3 and a Vita(and 360/Wii/3DS/iPad). Awwwww, fuck.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
slightly off topic: did they ever expand the list of compatible psp games? I still have lbp and a few others just sitting in my PS3.
chickdigger802
Banned
On a side note, has nintendo ever released info about who 3ds is selling to the most? Outside of zelda concert, I haven't seen one anywhere.
Opus Angelorum
Member
And broadening this further, Sony need not have this attitude for the PS4 launch.
Kids, elementary through college.
They're fucking everywhere in Seattle and Bellevue, I can't go anywhere without getting at least a dozen hits.
I believe Iwata has mentioned it in one of their investor conferences. Those are archived on their investor relations site. I remember seeing a slide showing that the gender split for the 3ds tilts far more in favor of males than the ds does and that they are looking to change this with future titles.
AranhaHunter
Banned
The thing about Sony and its first parties is that they let the first parties do what they want, how they want it, and on the [sony] platform they want. Their two top tiers, AAA developers, ND and SSM, didn't support the Move and, so far, the Vita with internal developed games. Even though it might suck sometimes for fans, I like this way of doing business as it allows for creative freedom and allows for developers to do what they really want to do.
I think, at most, ND will develop a Vita app to support their PS3 game like LBP2 is doing; say, for example, developing a PSV app for TLOU where you can play using Vita as a controller and when you open the bag, the inventory is seen on the Vita screen. That said, I don't think ND even has Vita dev kits.
grimshawish
Banned
I've been saying for a while that they never had any strategy.
It was cobbled together and just 'thrown' out to the market. They didn't just let down customers but also developers imo - they pretended to have a plan for this thing.
In the end they had - zilch. They literally just made this thing - (it looks like a PSP ffs) and added wee bits - the touch pad etc. etc. and I doubt had any 'meaningful' conversation on costs.
Its most noticeable in the marketing which fails to promote the actual product and was living in fantasy land.
PS: When people use 'was' when discussing marketing for a product still on the market? This is BAD. I still think theres a big problem in who knows about the 'Vita' and do people seeing it just think its the PSP?
Rollo Lawson
Banned
I'm confused by it too. It's pretty hopeless.
famousmortimer
Banned
Koller's remarks, as usual, are incoherent, PR nonsense that contradicts itself.
Likewise, the We-Want-To-See-The-Vita-Fail contingent of gaf has kept up with him with their irrational beliefs that they pass off as facts.
Tretton hates the vita. Really?
Only Kaz likes the Vita, it's forced on everyone else. Really?
Sony has given up on the vita. ...
Are you guys serious? Or is this just blatant trolling? There's definitely a conversation to be had about why the Vita is struggling, but I don't feel like it's happening here. This is just a bunch of people shitting on something they don't like. And we get about three threads a week just like this.
Ugh.
Likewise, the We-Want-To-See-The-Vita-Fail contingent of gaf has kept up with him with their irrational beliefs that they pass off as facts.
Tretton hates the vita. Really?
Only Kaz likes the Vita, it's forced on everyone else. Really?
Sony has given up on the vita. ...
Are you guys serious? Or is this just blatant trolling? There's definitely a conversation to be had about why the Vita is struggling, but I don't feel like it's happening here. This is just a bunch of people shitting on something they don't like. And we get about three threads a week just like this.
Ugh.
They expected you to get a second job to pay for the PS3. They live in a dream world.
Releasing some system sellers would help but that's not happening anytime soon (Till CoD at least, and I don't have much hope that that'll help too much)
People were crying about the handhelds not having two analogs. Sony brought that. Cried that the PSP had no games during launch. Vita came with one of the strongest launch line-ups. And now they're talking about no games, but you bring up an original assassin's creed, but that's too console-esque. Then you talk about the games that are more 'handheld suitable' and all of a sudden those games are too niche.
I'm honestly sick of Sony's Interviews and I don't see the point in interviewing any person from Sony except Yoshida. Why give them a stage to repeat the same few PR lines over and over again?
Yes, we know everyone is satisfied with everything and the momentum is just incredible. We know that sales are and have always been through the roof.
Yes, we know everyone is satisfied with everything and the momentum is just incredible. We know that sales are and have always been through the roof.
Maybe they could, you know, release some games that you actually need a Vita to play? Why would people get excited about a release schedule full of PS3 ports?
famousmortimer
Banned
Exactly. There is little rationale discussion happening in this thread.
I love the vita but I think it's far from perfect. There is definitely a conversation to be had about how it can improve. But I get the feeling from thread after thread after thread just like this one that the people posting in here, in general, don't give two shits about how it can improve. They don't want to see it improve. They are cheering for its failure.
Which is fine... if you hate Sony or just the Vita or whatever - cool. But stop pretending like you are bringing rationale arguments to the table.
And the idea that the VITA HAS NO GAMES is completely a fallacy.
Looking at the first 4 months of every major console since 2004 (DS, 360, PSP, Wii, PS3, Vita) this is what you get (these numbers are from north america as per wikipedia and metacritic):
Wii: 60 games 15 with a Metacritic of 70% or higher.
Vita: 48 games 21 with a Metacritic of 70% or higher.
360: 46 games 33 with a Metacritic of 70% or higher
3DS: 40 games 11 with a Metacritic of 70% or higher (note that all three versions of Nintendogs were counted individually)
PS3: 34 games 20 with a Metacritic of 70% or higher
PSP: 29 games 17 with a Metacritic of 70% or higher
DS: 17 games 5 with a Metacritic of 70% or higher
So the vita has the 2nd most games and the 2nd most games with a metacritic of 70% or higher. Yet it has no games.
Right.
There's obviously a lot more to the success of a handheld than just pure numbers like these. There's how it's marketed, there's the idea of system sellers and killer apps. There's price point. I think Sony is way off the mark with almost everything I just listed. They clearly need to improve. But the meme that's been floating around here that the vita has no games is factually incorrect.
But i get the feeling that most people in these vita hate threads aren't all that concerned with being factual in any way.
I think there are a lot of good points being made, and some bad ones, and I know this sounds very dismissive, but I just don't think there is all that much Sony can do at this point.
Their best opportunity, especially in Japan, which was where PSP shined, was to launch earlier than Nintendo at an affordable price point. They did not do that and are now behind the 8-ball.
In the West the PSP did not sell enough software to justify the 3rd party publishers really jumping full on board.
I really don't think there is a solution, besides pulling every first party A-team off of consoles and onto Vita, which we know is not going to happen.
Their best opportunity, especially in Japan, which was where PSP shined, was to launch earlier than Nintendo at an affordable price point. They did not do that and are now behind the 8-ball.
In the West the PSP did not sell enough software to justify the 3rd party publishers really jumping full on board.
I really don't think there is a solution, besides pulling every first party A-team off of consoles and onto Vita, which we know is not going to happen.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Diablos54 said:
Its been out 4 months! If you think there's a small amount of unique software available on Vita at this point I can't wait until the next gen of home consoles arrive because I can safely predict there'll be less stuff on those platforms for longer.
The more complex the project and the hardware then the longer the lead-times get.
Rome wasn't built in a day. People should give new things a chance before throwing them under the bus, its so short-sighted and pointless.
What confuses me is what people exactly are getting out of all of this negativity? It strikes me that some folk just want to see Vita fail, and I'm truthfully at a loss to think of a single rational reason why. You don't have to be a Sony fan to lose out if it crashes and burns: It'll be a loss for gaming and gamers as a whole because nothing happens in a vacuum.
It will affect future investment, shape future products further towards a casual-centric vision, and cost jobs which could be applied not just to Vita products, but to titles on other platforms.
People are beshitting their own nest with all this hate. Its fucking madness.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
You mean I can play Gravity Rush on my PS3!? Or the new little big planet or AC3 liberation? Are you confirming Persona 4 remake is coming to PS3?
I can honestly say I have nothing against the Vita, I don't want it to fail. I am completely ambivalent.
But frankly it is doing terribly worldwide, and unlike with the 3DS Sony has announced zero guaranteed hardware movers.
Yes, it is only 4 months, but the trend line is dangerously bad and there are no easy fixes.
I think what he means is that there's only one single game experience on Vita (among the Top games, the green ones on MC) that's not available on consoles already. And that single experience is the most recent release.
He might want something that's only available and possible on Vita. Uncharted is an exclusive game, but it's just Uncharted, an experience he can get on consoles as well. Gravity Rush is not such an experience.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Cool so he must hate the 3DS as well.
Persona 4 is a PS2 game with a few bells on. Nobody cares about LBP Vita just like they didn't on PSP. Gravity Rush and AC Liberation are all well and good (although the real AC3 is far more attractive and available on other consoles) but they are just about the only decent looking Vita exclusives for the next 6 months.
The 3DS schedule for this year includes RE:Revelations, Kid Icarus, Paper Mario, Kingdom Hearts, NSMB2, Luigi's Mansion, Castlevania, and Epic Mickey. It takes a shit on the Vita from a great height. You can't play any of those on another platform.
Oppo
Member
well I'm buying LBP Vita. that system is good for platformers, I enjoyed Rayman and Mutant Blobs.
question: did we ever find out if Sony is making money on Vitas? per unit I mean?
So much truth in this post. The Vita's software library has been surprisingly strong considering how long the device has been out in the US; and, just like the PS3, once it finds its footing--and it will if enthusiasts quit spouting that it's all doom and gloom--the software will flow at a steady rate. I've had mine since launch, and I don't even have time to finish all the great launch software I have for it.
The people bitching about the Vita now will be the same people bitching about iOS killing portable gaming. So, ya' know what, do something about it: quit buying shitty iOS games b/c they're a dollar, and save your monies to get a Vita and Gravity Rush. Speak with your dollars, people.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
You're right no one cares about little big planet for the vita. Ok.
Father_Brain
Banned
Dalthien has already pointed out that Vita already is doing that poorly worldwide (and will likely continue doing so for some time), but do you really, honestly believe that third parties will just suddenly decide to give the system significantly improved support once the installed base crawls to some arbitrary level that's still a fraction of what exists on other platforms? Historically speaking, third parties tend to stick with the horses they bet on before the generation starts, and with a few exceptions, they seem to have bet that Vita ports of HD console titles aren't worth bothering with; this is very unlike PS3, which - far from "eventually" getting ports from other platforms - was established as part of the HD ecosystem long before it launched. Had PS3 ever been in the position Vita is now with third parties, it's likely that it would have driven Sony out of the gaming hardware business altogether.
The only example I can really think of of third-party support drastically improving midway through a generation is PSP in Japan, and that was the direct result of a miracle (MHP becoming a multimillion-seller on a platform with only a medium-sized userbase) that's not likely to repeat itself on any platform this gen.
2 main distinctions between the Vita and PS3
1- In Japan, PS3 was competing against the Wii. Vita is competing against the 3DS.
2-PS3 survived in those early years off the back of the 360, oddly enough. If not for the multiplats the software library would have looked a lot worse. That won't happen with the Vita.
1- In Japan, PS3 was competing against the Wii. Vita is competing against the 3DS.
2-PS3 survived in those early years off the back of the 360, oddly enough. If not for the multiplats the software library would have looked a lot worse. That won't happen with the Vita.
Opus Angelorum
Member
It's not a question if your or the wider consumer can, it's if Sony can.
From what little we know LBP on PSP actually sold pretty well.
thing is gonna die soon.
Ps3 had games coming and shown at pressers. Vita don't and didn't. totally different.
Ps3 had games coming and shown at pressers. Vita don't and didn't. totally different.
You're missing the point, I'm not saying that the Vita doesn't have good games or anything (It had one of the best launch line-ups I've seen for a long time), but it has nothing which will significantly drive sales to an acceptable level, that's the difference between the 2 handhelds at the moment. PS3 ports, spinoffs and niche games just won't be enough. Despite its slow start (Even though it was one of the fastest selling launch systems in history), the 3DS always had system sellers in the pipeline (Mario, Monster Hunter, Pokemon, Animal Crossing etc...), and it wasn't until a few of those were released did it really start to pick up traction. I just don't see anything of that level on the Vita, and the sales correspond with this, and the longer it goes on, the lower sales get, the more unlikely it is publishers are going to keep green-lighting big projects for it.
grimshawish
Banned
Vitas big difficulty in Japan is that 3DS has been the 'next PSP'. The sales show that this is not just the 'usual' Nintendo audience but new gamers craving for things like Fire Emblem and such. A lot has been made about how well the 3DS Mario games have sold - again; I think its mostly down to a new audience on a Nintendo system.
3DS has simply won that battle.
Interesting on your second point - is this the ENTIRE reason for this PS3/Vita strategy - reduce costs and multiplatform until the Vita price can be slowly brought down and more games come out? Creating the similar scenario (if wider) to the PS3/360 thing.
lowrider007
Licorice-flavoured booze?
I don't think people really *mean* 'release some games' as much as they mean 'announce some games'; for a fledgling system the rate of releases hasn't been *too* bad in the west. However, by this stage of the 3DS's life we'd got a clear picture of what was coming up through to the end of the year, and we knew there were some big sellers there.
For a four month old system, the Vita's lineup is pretty good. What'll the lineup be in eight months, in twelve? Should we regard Japan - just coming up to eight months now - as a benchmark, because that doesn't yet look brilliant. There's games I'll want - LBP Vita is a must-buy, given how much I liked the earlier titles, as is Persona 4 since I've not played it before - but while they're good, they don't set the pulses racing. Maybe CoD will do that for the mass market, although it's not to my general tastes.
What games do I put onto my Christmas list for Vita? Last year on my 3DS I bought SM3DL, Mario Kart and Tales of the Abyss, and I was looking forward to titles that I knew were coming next year; Resident Evil: Revelations, Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario. I saw a long-term plan. Vita? Maybe the AC3 title, depending on how well-executed it is. Next year? I have genuinely no idea.
I've just recently bought a Vita. I like the system, and there's enough games coming up that interest me. What I don't see is a long-term plan. Folks are adamant that there is one, and you guys are probably right - but they need to tell us. What am I looking forward to on Vita for next year?
E3's a significant part of the reason people are sceptical of the system in the long term; it's a *prime* time to announce games for western release. We heard about two games in Sony's conference; one of which we already knew about (I don't *think* we were definite that a Vita AC was on the way, but feel free to correct me on that). Then again, maybe that reflects on the E3 as a whole, given that there were very few games we weren't at least basically aware of.
For a four month old system, the Vita's lineup is pretty good. What'll the lineup be in eight months, in twelve? Should we regard Japan - just coming up to eight months now - as a benchmark, because that doesn't yet look brilliant. There's games I'll want - LBP Vita is a must-buy, given how much I liked the earlier titles, as is Persona 4 since I've not played it before - but while they're good, they don't set the pulses racing. Maybe CoD will do that for the mass market, although it's not to my general tastes.
What games do I put onto my Christmas list for Vita? Last year on my 3DS I bought SM3DL, Mario Kart and Tales of the Abyss, and I was looking forward to titles that I knew were coming next year; Resident Evil: Revelations, Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario. I saw a long-term plan. Vita? Maybe the AC3 title, depending on how well-executed it is. Next year? I have genuinely no idea.
I've just recently bought a Vita. I like the system, and there's enough games coming up that interest me. What I don't see is a long-term plan. Folks are adamant that there is one, and you guys are probably right - but they need to tell us. What am I looking forward to on Vita for next year?
E3's a significant part of the reason people are sceptical of the system in the long term; it's a *prime* time to announce games for western release. We heard about two games in Sony's conference; one of which we already knew about (I don't *think* we were definite that a Vita AC was on the way, but feel free to correct me on that). Then again, maybe that reflects on the E3 as a whole, given that there were very few games we weren't at least basically aware of.
AdventureRacing
Member
Do you people spouting this bullshit actually believe it? That a few people posting negative remarks about the vita is actually in anyway affecting its success.
Also the comparisons that continue to be made to the PS3 make no sense whatsoever. Firstly the PS3 was never selling this badly. Secondly the PS3 was guaranteed far more support than the vita for the simple fact it was the successor to the PS2 and not the PSP. That plus sonys big first party studios actually develops games for the PS3 unlike the vita.
The home console market also isn't being squeezed to death like the dedicated handheld market is by smartphones.
Edit: Also as mentioned the 3DS isn't about to die a slow horrible death like the wii allowing for a resergence of the vita (especially in Japan). Unlike the home console market 3rd parties actually developed for the DS and 3DS so the vita won't just be getting all 3rd party support by default.
If there is one thing that I'm 100% sure of is that Sony will support their platforms. In addition, there isn't a wide gap between the cost of creating the device versus retail price when compared to the PS3.
The bottom line is that they created a device that addressed a majority of the concerns folks had with PSP. As said multiple times in the this thread and 5 others like it, it's about creating exclusive content that you could only get on the Vita. I hope that Sony isn't 100% all-in on this Cross-Play strategy.
So you don't have Paper Mario on consoles? Kingdom Hearts? New Super Mario Brothers Wii? Luigi's Mansion on GameCube, Epic Mickey on Wii? Castlevania on several systems? People cry about the 'console experiences', but which of these games were not available on console? Don't forget those same people complaining are going to rush out to buy Smash Brothers if it came to 3ds and a new Mario Kart... The only one that doesn't have a recent console iteration is Kid Icarus.
Given the nature of Epic Mickey 3DS, I think it's entirely fair to state that that, too, doesn't have a 'recent console iteration'. For that matter:
Paper Mario: Closest parallel console title was released in 2004
Kingdom Hearts: Closest parallel console title was released in 2006
NSMBWii, I'll give you.
Luigi's Mansion: Closest parallel console title was released in 2001
Epic Mickey: Closest parallel console title was released in 1992. Ish.
Castlevania: Need to know more about the nature of the gameplay, but closest parallel console title was probably released in 1997.
Paper Mario Sticker Star is not available on any other console and the last Paper Mario RPG was in 2004 on the GameCube. The last Kingdom Hearts console game was 6 years ago. Luigi's Mansion was 11 years ago. Epic Mickey 3DS is a 2D game and nothing like Epic Mickey 2. Castlevania is also a 2D game and distinct from the console games. Games like LBP Vita and AC Liberation have near identical sister titles on current platforms.
To be fair, if they're intending to spin out the generation longer and compete toe-to-toe with Wii U functionality for as long as possible, this does strike me as a really good way to go about it.