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Leader of Oregon occupation Ammon Bundy, at least 8 others arrested

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They've been digging trenches with that backhoe all morning. Dude with the long hair has a string of shotgun shells draped around his neck.

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Its funny, for such knowledgeable survivalist/gun nuts, hes out in an open territory with plans of defending self with a shot gun lol
 

Macam

Banned
Its funny, for such knowledgeable survivalist/gun nuts, hes out in an open territory with plans of defending self with a shot gun lol

That and I'm not sure what the value of live streaming your activities is if you're expecting to be attacked by professional law enforcement, short of giving them plenty of insight as to what to expect.

Then again, I assume if you were half smart to begin with, you wouldn't be taking over a federal wildlife refuge and would have prepared better.
 
That and I'm not sure what the value of live streaming your activities is if you're expecting to be attacked by professional law enforcement, short of giving them plenty of insight as to what to expect.

Then again, I assume if you were half smart to begin with, you wouldn't be taking over a federal wildlife refuge and would have prepared better.

They want to start an uprising of like minded folks so they'd probably be pretty happy with broadcasting their "heroic last stand against tyranny".
 
These people want armed revolution, and they are using these live stream to recruit more followers. They have already completed an armed takeover of a federal building and federal lands. All diplomacy has failed.

It's time to take action. Cut off all supplies, cut off power and water. Surround them with snipers and machine gun nests in defensive positions and demand they surrender. No more bullshitting with these assholes. Surrender and be rightfully arrested, or go down in a hail of gunfire. Take your pick.
 
"Bad people deserve to die" is the same framework that justifies Wild West gun culture and racialized police escalation of violence to begin with. The only philosophy that leads to a world with less violence is one that believes that any use of violence is a bad thing--even if it sometimes also less bad than the alternative of not using violence.

The reasons why someone might get involved in a group like this are long and complicated and might involve mental illness or lack of opportunity (or if for some reason you believe in it, People Just Being Evil Very Bad People Who Are Bad) but irrespective of what brought us to this situation I hope we would all agree that for the sake of the deceased, his family and loved ones, the cop or cops who had to make the decision to shoot, their family and loved ones, and the broader community, it's regrettable that it got to this point.

It's fair to celebrate that relative to other outcomes, the number of casualties was low, but why celebrate casualties at all? The better outcome is if no one, including no Bad People, died. Relief is understandable, but a measure of sobriety when considering someone died costs nothing and makes us a kinder world.

Man, Stump, you are the best.
 

Vice

Member
Its funny, for such knowledgeable survivalist/gun nuts, hes out in an open territory with plans of defending self with a shot gun lol
Shotguns are fairly accurate and strong for about 100 yards. It's a pretty decent choice. Probably a better choice to just go home though.
 

Zaphod

Member
Shotguns are fairly accurate and strong for about 100 yards. It's a pretty decent choice. Probably a better choice to just go home though.

That must be one hell of a choke to be useful at 100 yards. A fully choked shotgun will give a 40" spread at 40 yards.
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
That and I'm not sure what the value of live streaming your activities is if you're expecting to be attacked by professional law enforcement, short of giving them plenty of insight as to what to expect.
I suppose the only thing that has going for them is that law enforcement wouldn't want to shoot people on live stream, so the stream does protect them in a weird way.

It's pretty clear that law enforcement doesn't want a bloodbath but these asshats keep on making it difficult to not have one.
 

eu pfhor ia

Neo Member
Homestead Act ended, so any remaining land defaulted to becoming federally owned land.

As it was, any settlement out west was massively subsidized, so amusingly anyone saying "the land should be ours!", it's only sustainable because the fed gov't pays you to be on it.

also, I think that map is including Reservations as federal land.

not to mention the Homestead act lasted until 1986 in some states,and the BLM (which holds a majority of lands in western states, especially the desert/high prairie stuff) didn't even exist until 1946. Ignoring that we're talking about lands that were properly those of the people who had been living in North America for the last ~15,000 years.

People also need to realize that the militia-men have plenty of support in this country, from the State rep. who tweeted whatever bullshit she tweeted, to Presidential candidate Rand Paul - I saw a video of Ryan Bundy speaking to Paul about these kind of issues a while back, can try to find it if anyone wants.

Piece from the Oregonian

and another from High Country News
 

besada

Banned
So was there no info or something?

The thread kind of died with the press conference starting.

It wasn't much of a press conference. They basically restated what we already knew, and then the local Sheriff made a heartfelt plea to the Militia to get the fuck out of Oregon already.
 

Tigress

Member
Hopefully it is proved that the terrorists fired first so they don't get a martyr.

They're trying to make one anyways. Let's be honest, they secretly were probably wanting something like this to happen so they could make martyrs of themselves. I mean they were trying to goad it into happening by carrying around guns really (I'm not anti gun but it's obvious when some one is brandishing guns like this it's a way of daring the other side, "come on, try me!"). They're already on their FB passing around a meme about how they were "peaceful patriots" and were "attacked while on a remote road while for supporting the constitution" (literally the words they used).

They're going to make the most of this they can cause I bet anything they were hoping for something like this (maybe not some one dieing but to be "attacked" by the government). Some one died, all the better for PR!
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Took a few brief listens to Limbaugh and Hannity. Did not hear anything about this. They seem to be avoiding the story like the plague. Which I take for a good thing, right wing media not making these guys out to be heroes
 

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Took a few brief listens to Limbaugh and Hannity. Did not hear anything about this. They seem to be avoiding the story like the plague. Which I take for a good thing, right wing media not making these guys out to be heroes

Yeah, it's interesting. I thought right-wing media would be lit up once we found out that one guy got killed, but everything's pretty muted. Which is very good.
 

jstripes

Banned
Yeah, it's interesting. I thought right-wing media would be lit up once we found out that one guy got killed, but everything's pretty muted. Which is very good.

Well, the mainstream right-wing media, with all their fancy big city lawyers, experts, and embedded interests, probably have somewhat of an understanding that these people are domestic terrorists, and don't want to associate themselves with the whole mess.

The fringe media, on the other hand...
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Well, the mainstream right-wing media, with all their fancy big city lawyers, experts, and embedded interests, probably have somewhat of an understanding that these people are domestic terrorists, and don't want to associate themselves with the whole mess.

The fringe media, on the other hand...

Anyone listen to Michael Savage or Mark Levin today? Those two make Hannity and Limbaugh sound totally reasonable.


Edit: oh man. We're getting ads.
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FelixOrion

Poet Centuriate
Anyone listen to Michael Savage or Mark Levin today? Those two make Hannity and Limbaugh sound totally reasonable.


Edit: oh man. We're getting ads.
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Driving home late at night I often have the misfortune of listening to Levin and I can assure everyone that he's just straight up nuts. I remember he tried to use Jerek Jeter's accomplishments in baseball as a way to criticize Obama. I kid you not.

That said, I regret not turning it on last night to hear his crazy, shrill, screaming antics hit gargantuan proportions.
 
Any mention of the weapon brandished by the deceased? People on the steam last night were saying that his weapon was still at the refuge.
 
Yeah, it's interesting. I thought right-wing media would be lit up once we found out that one guy got killed, but everything's pretty muted. Which is very good.
The Cliven Bundy situation backfired spectacularly on right-wing media so I'm sure they want nothing to do with this.
 

Paskil

Member
That must be one hell of a choke to be useful at 100 yards. A fully choked shotgun will give a 40" spread at 40 yards.

Shotguns can use either spread or slug ammo. Video games don't usually depict this.

Actually, wait. Does spread mean the place the bullet can land or the spread of the pellets. Hmm, should have kept my mouth shut, lol.
 

Piggus

Member
Shotguns can use either spread or slug ammo. Video games don't usually depict this.

Actually, wait. Does spread mean the place the bullet can land or the spread of the pellets. Hmm, should have kept my mouth shut, lol.

Spread = the spread of the pellets. Also referred to as the pattern (how the hits appear on the target).

Shot drops pretty fast, but slugs are brutal and can carry a lot of energy even out to several hundred yards.
 

Jackpot

Banned
Completely mishandled. People should be sacked.

And it's going to be funny watching the same people from AllLivesMatter try and reconcile their views. Are we going to be hearing cries of "his past shouldn't matter", "why couldn't the police use tasers", etc from them soon?
 
So I haven't had the opportunity to really dig into this yet.

I don't suppose anyone has a link with the entire sequence of events so I can summarize everything from the arrests? I don't want to ask for a recap.

Would it be more prudent for me to look for a video of the press conference?
 

besada

Banned
Any mention of the weapon brandished by the deceased? People on the steam last night were saying that his weapon was still at the refuge.

Two eyewitnesses, Including Mike McConnell, claim that Lavoy Finicum rushed the police officers when given a chance to surrender. No word on whether he was armed, but he apparently tried to run, crashed his truck into a snowbank, then got out and rushed the police.
I don't suppose anyone has a link with the entire sequence of events so I can summarize everything from the arrests? I don't want to ask for a recap.

Finicum, O'Shaughnessey, Payne, both Bundys, Mike McConnell, and others attempted to drive to John Day to participate in a county meeting where they had more support. The police pulled over the front car, with the Bundys in it, and Finicum attempted to avoid them by driving past, where he ran into a road block. While the others were getting arrested, Finicum rushed the police and was shot to death. In the process, Ryan Payne took a piece of shrapnel, but was released from the hospital within an hour or so. At around the same time in Burns, the local PD arrested another guy. And similarly, Ritzheimer turned himself in in Arizona, where he'd fled the day before (causing a lot of the militia folk to believe he's an informant). Pete Santilli was arrested outside of Malheur, when he tried to re-enter after the shooting.
 

TyrantII

Member
Completely mishandled. People should be sacked.

And it's going to be funny watching the same people from AllLivesMatter try and reconcile their views. Are we going to be hearing cries of "his past shouldn't matter", "why couldn't the police use tasers", etc from them soon?

The dude dead said he would die before being taken alive and this whole bozo group has threatened law enforcement with death while being heavily armed.

This is NOTHING comparable to BLM. If anything it shows the great lengths white middle aged crazy ass men need to go before getting shot. It takes a lot.
 

AxelFoley

Member
Gotta love how so many people on the internet readily believe the "Fed shot first"/"Fed shot an unarmed man" without "waiting for more information" when these same people are so quick to dismiss that same thing time and time again when it comes to black Americans interaction with local LEO.

Oh America.


Exactly.
 

Key2001

Member
Two eyewitnesses, Including Mike McConnell, claim that Lavoy Finicum rushed the police officers when given a chance to surrender. No word on whether he was armed, but he apparently tried to run, crashed his truck into a snowbank, then got out and rushed the police.

On his Facebook, Mike McConnell, states that he knows Lavoy Finicum was armed.
 
Thank you for the update, besada.

Still not convinced that letting them roam around doing what they wanted was the best course of action, especially considering that there are still people there. I guess we'll see where the dust settles.

Gotta love how so many people on the internet readily believe the "Fed shot first"/"Fed shot an unarmed man" without "waiting for more information" when these same people are so quick to dismiss that same thing time and time again when it comes to black Americans interaction with local LEO.

Oh America.

Always a double standard when it comes to black folks.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Gotta love how so many people on the internet readily believe the "Fed shot first"/"Fed shot an unarmed man" without "waiting for more information" when these same people are so quick to dismiss that same thing time and time again when it comes to black Americans interaction with local LEO.

Oh America.

I am open to the idea that the fed shot first, but that is not said in defense of Bundy or the other extremists. I mean that I would believe that the officers had reason to shoot first. These were armed men, who had been threatening Law Enforcement for a month. The idiot who got killed has been quoted as saying he would rather die than go to jail.

In this instance, I would totally believe the officers to have been fearful for their lives when dealing with these people.
 

AxelFoley

Member
Jesus Christ, do people think these folks are like Occupy Wall Street or Black Lives Matter?

You don't protest by making demands and occupying federal land with guns. These people are thugs that have assumed control of federal property (albeit small). Any system of government isn't going to take that, and nor should they.

The weaponry they toted implies that they're willing to use it. This isn't one guy driving a fucking tractor to the White House, these are armed occupants that are making actual demands that the constitution be interpreted in a way that most benefits them.

They're terrorists at worst, and armed thugs at best. They should all be arrested, and if they're stupid enough to go down in what they think is a blaze of glory, that's a damn shame for the loss of life to them and their families, but I'm not going to give even approaching a fuck about them in comparison to the lives that have been taken needlessly by law enforcement against straight up innocent people.

These occupiers deserve to be vilified.


Wish we had a "like" button, because I'd "like" the fuck outta this post.
 
I am open to the idea that the fed shot first, but that is not said in defense of Bundy or the other extremists. These were armed men, who had been threatening Law Enforcement for a month. The idiot who got killed has been quoted as saying he would rather die than go to jail.

In this instance, I would totally believe the officers to have been fearful for their lives when dealing with these people.

I would think that if he was armed it would be indicated in the statements. However, it's clear he charged at the officers. Nominally I would like police to take down an unarmed suspect non-lethally, but if that man has been publicly promising to kill law enforcement officers, I'm fine with assuming he has deadly intent and the means to achieve it and acting accordingly.
 

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Old? Ammon Bundy tells remaining extremists to go home.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-bundy-asks-supporters-abandon-refuge-n505536

Ammon Bundy asked his remaining followers occupying Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Oregon to stand down Wednesday and leave the property.

The message was delivered by an attorney for Bundy, who was arrested late Tuesday afternoon along with his brother Ryan and six of their followers.

"I'm asking the federal government to allow the people at the refuge to go home without being prosecuted," Bundy said in a statement read by his lawyer, Mike Arnold, outside court. "To those at the refuge, I love you. Let us take this fight from here. Please stand down. Please stand down. Go home and hug your families."

In a federal indictment unsealed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Portland, the FBI said Bundy intended for the refuge — which he and his followers occupied on Jan. 2 — to become a permanent headquarters for anti-government "patriots from all over the country."

According to the FBI, Bundy says in a video: "We're planning on staying here for several years."

Local and federal authorities arrested the suspects late Tuesday afternoon, most of them as they were driving to the town of John Day to attend a community meeting.

Oh man, he must be absolutely terrified and ready to play ball in any way he can.
 
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