Chie Satonaka
Member
I don't know if I'd go so far as dealing with the children like that, but every adult who took part in this farce needs to be thrown in jail.
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Leader of Oregon occupation Ammon Bundy, at least 8 others arrested
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I don't know if I'd go so far as dealing with the children like that, but every adult who took part in this farce needs to be thrown in jail.
I was being hyperbolic 
But this country is full of kids who have done less than participate in a terrorist act who have criminal records; and full of kids who cause just as much trouble who don't ever have a record because it's all handled by local police and not the criminal justice system.
I'd rather less children be in the criminal justice system in general; but this country is pretty fucked when it comes to how CERTAIN kids get treated.
Every single parent there should face serious charges though; bringing your children to that situation is completely and utterly fuckd.
But this country is full of kids who have done less than participate in a terrorist act who have criminal records; and full of kids who cause just as much trouble who don't ever have a record because it's all handled by local police and not the criminal justice system.
I'd rather less children be in the criminal justice system in general; but this country is pretty fucked when it comes to how CERTAIN kids get treated.
Every single parent there should face serious charges though; bringing your children to that situation is completely and utterly fuckd.
Yes; to be clear I feel a lot of compassion for these children and hope they find better role models than their parents.
I'd also like to see a huge overhaul to our criminal justice system and move towards rehabilitation particularly for younger people. In that sort of system it wouldn't be a bad thing for these kids to enter the criminal justice system; particularly considering how irresponsible their parents are.
aspiegamer
Member
Coincidentally, he's the only one of the arrested persons who has his own private attorney! If he wasn't already terrified, his lawyer probably told him that he needed to be.
Yup. But not by choice.
The idea that these people should be allowed to go home without being prosecuted is ridiculous. They tried that at the Bundy ranch, and many of the people who were involved in that incident ended up participating in an act of sedition, invading occupying and destroying federal land
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I have just been introduced to the phrase, "Walmartyr"
MSNBC says the charges they face only carry a 6 year max penalty.
MSNBC says the charges they face only carry a 6 year max penalty.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
This whole ordeal has expanded my vocabulary in terrific ways. Y'allQaeda, Yeehawd, and now Walmartyr.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
6 years? The shell?
Let me get this straight.
You can:
1. Threaten to murder federal officials
2. perform an armed invasion of a federal reservation
3. Steal and unlawfully use government property
4. Destroy government property
5. Illegally construct roads on federal land, without the proper permits or clearances.
6. Keep people from sustaining their livelihoods and working because you've holed yourselves up in their workplace.
7. Do all of this repeatedly, consciously, on multiple occasions, for weeks, with blatant disregard for the rule of law.
And the most you can get is 6 fucking years?
The fuck?
You can:
1. Threaten to murder federal officials
2. perform an armed invasion of a federal reservation
3. Steal and unlawfully use government property
4. Destroy government property
5. Illegally construct roads on federal land, without the proper permits or clearances.
6. Keep people from sustaining their livelihoods and working because you've holed yourselves up in their workplace.
7. Do all of this repeatedly, consciously, on multiple occasions, for weeks, with blatant disregard for the rule of law.
And the most you can get is 6 fucking years?
The fuck?
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
8. Looking up records on the computers. Records of people and their ss#
9. And using those records to find the employees home and intimate them
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Seeing that video of the heavy equipment being used has me wondering if any of these nutters have thought about going Full Granby
So, if they start a revolution and win, will they be compared to the founders of this country?
If NeoGaf existed at the time of the American revolution, would the posters on the board be British with the way most of the post slant?
Kinda makes you think about how many nutters started out as a few and grew from there, then with winning, got to write the history books.
If NeoGaf existed at the time of the American revolution, would the posters on the board be British with the way most of the post slant?
Kinda makes you think about how many nutters started out as a few and grew from there, then with winning, got to write the history books.
MHWilliams
Member
The winners always write history.
So do you think those who were holding the space were correct in their actions?
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
So, the daughter of the guy who was killed is parroting the line that Ammon Bundy said he was executed.
Bundy has already made statements via lawyer since being arrested. Has that been repeated by his lawyer?
Bundy has already made statements via lawyer since being arrested. Has that been repeated by his lawyer?
6 years would be a decent start, but i kinda doubt they'll get even that much.
can't we pull out a statute regarding TRAITORS AGAINST THE NATION or some shit? DOMESTIC TERRORISM? surely that carries more than a 6 year penalty
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
yes it's true that people do judge a democratic revolution taking place against an oppressive colonialist kingdom in the pre-democratic pre-human rights pre-automatic rifles world as different then some anti-government wingnuts bitching that the 92% discount they get on using things that aren't theirs isn't good enough and then getting sad because they get dildos
can't wait for cliven bundy's new federalist papers
I do not believe they were right.
I was just thinking of armed rebellion Eventually thoughts led me down the trail of the Revolution and then wondering what the post would have been like if Neogaf existed then.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Heh.
Only six years.
If even a third of them see even two years behind bars, I'll be legitimately surprised.
Only six years.
If even a third of them see even two years behind bars, I'll be legitimately surprised.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Six Years might not seem like much, but think about all the added time after they get out and these convicted felons are found to still have guns.
MHWilliams
Member
Ah, well newspapers at the time on both sides are well documented.
http://www.pbs.org/ktca/liberty/chronicle_boston1774.html
http://www.pbs.org/ktca/liberty/chronicle_yorktown1781.html
Mrs. Manky
Banned
If NeoGaf existed at the time of the American revolution, I wouldn't be able to post.
the more i think about this the more ridiculous it is.
there's no reason not to label these people as terrorists and charge them accordingly. there is no place in our society for terrorists. lock them up forever. we don't call them terrorists based on racial and political bullshit. this is bullshit.
there's no reason not to label these people as terrorists and charge them accordingly. there is no place in our society for terrorists. lock them up forever. we don't call them terrorists based on racial and political bullshit. this is bullshit.
Bornstellar
Member
Them not actually committing any violent crimes is a pretty good reason. Advocating life imprisonment for the crimes that were committed is ridiculous.
BattleMonkey
Member
Most of those things would not be applied to every person, such as threatening to murder officials, only a couple have actually said such a thing. And they would only be able to pin point and apply some of those other charges to some folks that they can prove did such things, and some of those things aren't even real charges that can be really applied or have any real jail time either. It's unlikely all would get charged exact same way.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
In the sense that I'm not confident he can count to 10, for sure.
King Tubby
Member
what if B.o.B. started a revolution and won and in the future they wrote flat earth theory into science books, neogaf would be like the catholic church tryin to silence galileo lol
Beer Monkey
Member
Once they get out, bust them with guns. Under the Armed Career Criminals Act give them another 15 years in prison.
You know these people cannot live without guns. They worship the gun.
You know these people cannot live without guns. They worship the gun.
That's the worry now that they have their maryter. Waco, Ruby Ridge, and other small confrontations led the way for Oklahoma City when a useful idiot in the movement decided to "strike back". It's part of the reason the FEDs have been so light handed here, and its ultimately what Bundy is trying to instigate.
John Marshall has a good read on how their tactics almost 100% worked.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/violence-tragedy-and-nonsense
I'm actually all for light, rehabilitative sentences like that six year max bandied about if our prison system actually worked in the name of rehabilitation instead of recidivism. When you add that to the fact that this whole situation likely would have been treated entirely differently in the media and by the law had this not been by white folk, it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
The founders and colonials beef was having zero representation in British parliament long after they should of.
These dolts have representatives, but no one takes their crazy ass insanity seriously and they can't find a constituency. So instead they turn to thuggery; might makes right.
There's no similarity beyond, yes, the winners write the history books.
Edit:
Check out the history of the whiskey rebellion:https: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion
Chie Satonaka
Member
I appreciate this article, and it's made me rethink my animus to the situation as it unfolded. Thanks.
As an aside, does anyone know where these weird anti-government beliefs spring from? I had a friend who was dabbling briefly within that sovereign citizen bullshit a few years back. Is there like, a primer?
hydragonwarrior
Member
If you find an answer, then it's the key to how the GOP stays in power.
They're propagated mostly through the internet these days, but for a long while they were propagated in zines you could get at the same sorts of places you got white power zines, and books from Palladin Press.
Now you just have to join a forum. Oath Keepers have their own. The SovCits have dozens, because they're super squirrley. Various Militia groups have their own, etc.
If you want to go sown the rabbit hole, might I recommend Quatloos.com, a site that tracks and debunks a lot of the SovCit arguments, and includes links back to their lairs? Don't blame me if, like me, you wind up with a Google personalized news filter that alerts you with SovCit stories.
Here's their thread on Cliven Bundy: http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=9958
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
American revolution. The stamp tax, the tea party. The articles of confederation (pre cursor to the constitution)
i understand this article saying that "the strategy of de-escalation almost worked 100%" .. it worked in the sense that the leaders were arrested without an epic shootout. i get it.
but the strategy worked 0% in conveying the notion that an armed takeover over federal property is not something that will be tolerated in America.
it did nothing to deter any groups from trying to do something like this elsewhere.
it made the government look limpwristed, racist, and ridiculous.
it sent the message that if you want to takeover a remote federal area with guns and destroy shit, you will be allowed to do so for at least a month.
from my point of view the strategy wasn't a good one at all.
but the strategy worked 0% in conveying the notion that an armed takeover over federal property is not something that will be tolerated in America.
it did nothing to deter any groups from trying to do something like this elsewhere.
it made the government look limpwristed, racist, and ridiculous.
it sent the message that if you want to takeover a remote federal area with guns and destroy shit, you will be allowed to do so for at least a month.
from my point of view the strategy wasn't a good one at all.
You write this as if from the future, where nary a public bathroom exists on federal land that isn't occupied.
Elaugaufein
Member
I'm more concerned about it sending the message that if you want to protest something you should be armed to the teeth if you want decent treatment. The last thing any country needs is all political disagreements to turn into militarized zones.
Cow Mengde
Banned
Eh, they'll be out in 6 months.
This. Bring guns and we will talk. Bring nothing and we will crush you.
tearsintherain
Member
afaik its up to states whether or not they allow convicted felons to keep possessing guns or not. In California for example nobody on parole or convicted of any felony can own a gun. In Oregon its allowed if you only have one felony conviction and its not homicide. The ACCA you mention just adds more penalties to a persons federal sentence if they keep committing crimes with guns involved.
I'd be fine with these guys getting off scot-free, while I don't really support the idea of lunatics taking over buildings as a form of protest, I do think the state and federal government needs to be reminded now and again that there are limits to their power. I'd be totally cool with armed BLM protesters staging rallies and anti-police demonstrations, although I wouldn't personally go anywhere near it (or any other armed protests).
Lol what.
Just a reminder that it is much cheaper to pay the government to let your cattle graze on their land then it is to pay private owners. This is not a case of the government sticking it to these idiots. And many of these phony militia types are not ranchers nor do they give a shit about facts.
I'd point out a grade school understanding of that history.
The debate over states vs federal rights is as old as America; it these sort of folk do not know their history and have some pretty fringe views on the debate, on history, and on law.
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