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[Kureransu]

I've a question for you all. How do you guys feel about targetable stuns. I may sound a bit whiny, but i feel like all stuns should be skill shots. It seems a bit much for someone to be able to lock you down for free damage, simple because you got in range. I don't mind it so much with an ult. but champs like Sion, Taric, and Panth (him especially because his is also a gap closer) just really unsettles me. It's like i'm being overly punished for being in a certain range of the champ. Now if the stuns did no damage, perhaps I would feel it was a bit more balanced. But their stuns have insane ap ratios (90%, 40-80% depending on health, and100% respectively), so that even building a little ap will greatly benefit them.

Sorry if i come off whiny, it's always been one of the things that i felt was unbalanced about LoL.

What do you guys think?

 

[Terbinator]

-> i quit, probably get banned.

You were losing your lane then you AFK? You're the bad guy here.

 

[Ken]

What do you guys think?

i feel the same way but it's something you just deal with or use to your advantage like baiting the stun and all in and have your jungler jump out from the bush like a thundercat

 

[PhillipCostigan]

You were losing your lane then you AFK? You're the bad guy here.

yep

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I've a question for you all. How do you guys feel about targetable stuns. I may sound a bit whiny, but i feel like all stuns should be skill shots. It seems a bit much for someone to be able to lock you down for free damage, simple because you got in range. I don't mind it so much with an ult. but champs like Sion, Taric, and Panth (him especially because his is also a gap closer) just really unsettles me. It's like i'm being overly punished for being in a certain range of the champ. Now if the stuns did no damage, perhaps I would feel it was a bit more balanced. But their stuns have insane ap ratios (90%, 40-80% depending on health, and100% respectively), so that even building a little ap will greatly benefit them.

Sorry if i come off whiny, it's always been one of the things that i felt was unbalanced about LoL.

What do you guys think?

I think they're bullshit.

Sion, Maokai, Panth, Taric. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit and bullshit. And the fact that Panth gets a no-skill, good-damage, low-cd Q to go with it is even weaker. But...the rest of their kits seem so weak, it feels like they need them to make themselves relevant after the first 10 minutes.

 

[Ken]

I think they're bullshit.

Sion, Maokai, Panth, Taric. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit and bullshit. And the fact that Panth gets a no-skill, good-damage, low-cd Q to go with it is even weaker. But...the rest of their kits seem so weak, it feels like they need them to make themselves relevant after the first 10 minutes.

maokai/panth are pretty unsafe stuns though, maokais especially

and no one plays sion

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I've a question for you all. How do you guys feel about targetable stuns. I may sound a bit whiny, but i feel like all stuns should be skill shots. It seems a bit much for someone to be able to lock you down for free damage, simple because you got in range. I don't mind it so much with an ult. but champs like Sion, Taric, and Panth (him especially because his is also a gap closer) just really unsettles me. It's like i'm being overly punished for being in a certain range of the champ. Now if the stuns did no damage, perhaps I would feel it was a bit more balanced. But their stuns have insane ap ratios (90%, 40-80% depending on health, and100% respectively), so that even building a little ap will greatly benefit them.

Sorry if i come off whiny, it's always been one of the things that i felt was unbalanced about LoL.

What do you guys think?

It's the one thing that makes Taric support fucking terrifying bot if they're working with a good Caitlyn or Varus, because they essentially just automatically control a big circle of the lane.

 

[Terbinator]

It's the one thing that makes Taric support fucking terrifying bot if they're working with a good Caitlyn or Varus, because they essentially just automatically control a big circle of the lane.

I literally only ever see Taric with Graves/Ez. The Cait/Varus combo sounds interesting though.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

maokai/panth are pretty unsafe stuns though, maokais especially

and no one plays sion

I don't disagree.

They're still bullshit. It's the principle of them. Skill-less stuns shouldn't be a part of the game unless they're attached to ultimates.

 

[forgrim]

It's the one thing that makes Taric support fucking terrifying bot if they're working with a good Caitlyn or Varus, because they essentially just automatically control a big circle of the lane.

my main adc is varus and i must admit, if i get a support taric, i almost always win lane simply because if he stuns the adc its aa q quick release aa e and then back to creep farming. do that twice and he has to b and u've just won ur lane. unless he has a support that sustains.

 

[DeadNames]

I don't disagree.

They're still bullshit. It's the principle of them. Skill-less stuns shouldn't be a part of the game unless they're attached to ultimates.

Yeah, point and click CC has literally zero counterplay.

Looking at you fiddlesticks.

 

[brian!]

u just punish them for stunning you with their million second cooldown and not someone else

 

[Leezard]

Yeah, skilless stuns are a plague. Luckily Sion and Taric aren't that good right now. Fiddle is the most common annoying one, since he is so popular as a support. That fear should be moved to a skill shot, it has so much range any way. Just buff his AP ratios instead.

I wish I had these kinds of friends. My modest goal of Gold would seem more realistic.

Doesn't NA Gaf have some decent people? Sometimes it's enough to queue with someone "worse" than yourself if that person is at least decent at two different roles. If you can get a decent cover for the different roles between the two of you, that's enough.

Duo queueing is only effective if the two of you are better than your mmr, though. If you're just as good as your mmr then duo queueing is probably going to drag you down since your mmr gets inflated when duo queueing.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

u just punish them for stunning you with their million second cooldown and not someone else

It's not a matter of whether or not they can be punished.

Doesn't NA Gaf have some decent people? Sometimes it's enough to queue with someone "worse" than yourself if that person is at least decent at two different roles. If you can get a decent cover for the different roles between the two of you, that's enough.

Duo queueing is only effective if the two of you are better than your mmr, though. If you're just as good as your mmr then duo queueing is probably going to drag you down since your mmr gets inflated when duo queueing.

I haven't even asked, to be honest. I'm pretty consistent with who I play regularly.

 

[brian!]

i dunno these stuns seem to work both ways range wise

ima go on record and say im ok with stuns that aren't skillshots
iz hard to keep these guys relevant tho, like its probably a pain in the ass to balance their kit

 

[Leezard]

i dunno these stuns seem to work both ways range wise

ima go on record and say im ok with stuns that aren't skillshots
iz hard to keep these guys relevant tho, like its probably a pain in the ass to balance their kit

Yeah, their targeted stuns make sure that the other parts of their kit can't be very strong.

 

[Diprosalic]

You were losing your lane then you AFK? You're the bad guy here.

i was winning or at worst even and i left out probably 100 of racist, homophobic slurs that everybody threw at each other. starting at champ select.

-> raging since champ select
-> trolling and bullying to get role they want
-> feeding and playing like morons, that by itself doesn't matter but refusing to try and blame others does.
-> racist and homophobic
-> go 2-20 after 10 min

-> i quit and i'm the bad guy? so be it.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Yeah, their targeted stuns make sure that the other parts of their kit can't be very strong.

Which I feel like only complicates the problem. Almost none of them are relevant in higher levels of competition on a consistent basis precisely because of their stupid kit design. If they didn't give them dumb abilities, they wouldn't have to make the rest of their kits so shitty.

With great respect to those who are big fans of these champs. It just seems like a bad solution: give them training wheels abilities, and compensate by making them useless if they can't snowball with said skills relatively early.

 

[Boken]

With a couple of weeks left before the end of S3, I decided to abandon my Diamond rewards in LAN and go back to NA. I'm done. Never looking back.

I strongly advise against low population servers. My diamond queues were filled with platinum players (sometimes gold). Yes, it's easier to rank in LAN (got to Diamond in no time), but this disparity of ranks in solo queue is jarring. As a main support, and usually first pick, I would go bot lane while the Plat V player in my team got matched against the first pick of the other team, usually a Diamond. I got tired of this.

The state of the LAN server is probably like this (low pop) because of people like me, that decide against transfer. In fact, as a Mexican player, I get better ping in NA, so Mexican players have no advantage transferring over. It's not like Oceania or LAS, servers where people really get a better experience. NA has more players, less queue, and better ping (also the quality of games at highish elo is superb). I honestly don't see LAN server ever getting good.

So I'm back to NA. Decay got me down to Gold 1, but I'm back to Plat 3 in a week. I can carry games now, since the teams are usually evenly matched and the support/vision control that I provide win games. I really regret moving over to LAN, now I shall see if I can get to Diamond in two weeks time.

Edit: Also the queue times are beautiful in NA. 30-40 sec is heaven.

Are your fast queues due to be lower ranked?

Is there going to be a spooky map skin this year?

Hell now we don't need none of that shiot here get your doto trash outta here

You think she's too powerful? Like she's no Lucian or Quinn, but she's certainly not Vayne or Caitlyn status.

Amusingly, Lucian is competitive viable already

 

[brian!]

even though I've never had a game that I had to leave to preserve myself
I'm totally sympathetic towards people that leave hostile environments at the expense of others
I mean in certain situations of course

 

[Leezard]

Which I feel like only complicates the problem. Almost none of them are relevant in higher levels of competition on a consistent basis precisely because of their stupid kit design. If they didn't give them dumb abilities, they wouldn't have to make the rest of their kits so shitty.

With great respect to those who are big fans of these champs. It just seems like a bad solution: give them training wheels abilities, and compensate by making them useless if they can't snowball with said skills relatively early.

Agreed. The design of some old champions are really terrible and unfit for current-day League.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Agreed. The design of some old champions are really terrible and unfit for current-day League.

Across the board, I might add. Look at all the busted (or just boring, like Ryze) kits from old champions, and look at how much better the art got over time. Sometimes it feels like League is two games sharing the same space.

 

[Moodmon]

Nearly did the same thing a few minutes ago. Lose lane to Lissandra, but overall fairly even. The one Teemo flames at Trynd for not taking out an Olaf. We get over 40 mins in, I am only one left standing and manage to get inhib turret. I then go to run away, then back, then run again as I have no idea whether to push or not.

Oh woe betide me, three of the guys on our team go balls deep on me. We won in end, but stuff like that really leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. Especially when I have about 50 wins, the Teemo has over 900, his buddies over a hundred and the opposing Lissandra over 700.

I love normal with premades. Even better I have to take it as still miles off even playing ranked yet.

 

[Terbinator]

-> i quit and i'm the bad guy? so be it.

Hah, i was jesting dude. I know you're not bad.

I was making fun about my own situation here.

I feel your pain, doge.

 

[Diprosalic]

Hah, i was jesting dude. I know you're not bad.

I was making fun about my own situation here.

I feel your pain, doge.

ah man, i was getting riled up.

this game is not good for me, i'm too old for this shit.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Across the board, I might add. Look at all the busted (or just boring, like Ryze) kits from old champions, and look at how much better the art got over time. Sometimes it feels like League is two games sharing the same space.

Every time I see Taric in a match, I feel like that. The weird marriage of 2005 graphics and 2013 graphics.

 

[Terbinator]

 

[brian!]

wait u mean you guys dont just see matrix numbers floating around whenever you play the game

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Every time I see Taric in a match, I feel like that. The weird marriage of 2005 graphics and 2013 graphics.

Malph/Cho'gath splash art.

 

[Sr Kitsune]

http://abload.de/img/fdffffdf9xzbw.png[IMG][/QUOTE]

Another day in League.

 

[Kenai]

That feel when there's someone really worth giving an honor to and you forget.

Laned as Zyra with a Jinx vs Leona and another Jinx. Their jungle came, so did ours. My Jinx ended up about 6/1 by the 15 minute mark and would have been higher if I didn't get a few of them myself.

Then at the end during chat, the other team didn't say anything like "shit Jinx on our team fed bot gg". They were like "bot lane was so good we lost, gg bot".

I wanted to Honor everyone! But only got one person due to brainfart. ~_~ Ppl like that cannot be honored enough.

I am not sure if Jinx needs a nerf, but in the theroetical scenario where Caitlyn/Vayne come up to the nerfbat she might need toned down. I still find a good Vayne way scarier late game no matter how poorly they do laning, and Caityn has the easiest laning phase in the game (except for mayyybe lasthitting).

 

[XANDER CAGE]

That feel when there's someone really worth giving an honor to and you forget.

Laned as Zyra with a Jinx vs Leona and another Jinx. Their jungle came, so did ours. My Jinx ended up about 6/1 by the 15 minute mark and would have been higher if I didn't get a few of them myself.

Then at the end during chat, the other team didn't say anything like "shit Jinx on our team fed bot gg". They were like "bot lane was so good we lost, gg bot".

I wanted to Honor everyone! But only got one person due to brainfart. ~_~ Ppl like that cannot be honored enough.

Does anyone actually give honor anymore? I haven't seen a ribbon in like three months.

 

[Pandaman]

You were losing your lane then you AFK? You're the bad guy here.

as much as you try, nothing justifies your being an asshole.

but please do try, it's amusing.

 

[Kenai]

Does anyone actually give honor anymore? I haven't seen a ribbon in like three months.

I still have my green one, although I admit it's far less common than it used to be. I rarely go a day without seeing other ribbons though (usually green or red).

I had yellow for like a week then it reverted to green. I still don't get how ribbon rating works. Maybe no one does.

In other news, is there a list of all the champion division names? I am looking at some of them on GAF chatlist and a lot of these names are as amusing as they are random

 

[DeadNames]

Zeds swashbucklers.

YARRR

 

[brian!]

i got honour in my last game but it was definitely a la ufo I beat u so I give you honor style

 

[Boken]

as much as you try, nothing justifies your being an asshole.

but please do try, it's amusing.

panda pls

just

get gold

Does anyone actually give honor anymore? I haven't seen a ribbon in like three months.

honor is exclusive to coop vs ai nowadays


RE: the current discussion - I think targeted stuns still have a place in the design space. Its similiar to the concept of the generic spear vs sword duel- spears being long ranged and immobile like skillshots and swords being shorter and agile.
To me its just a difficult balancing act - but not impossible - to create a dichotomy where skillshots and targeted cc can exist.

TBH, mid season3 had ryze among the ranks of all the skillshot mage middles in competitive. problem was he was so easy to play at lower levels and punished melee so badly

so i guess the problem is presented by adding melee champions into the equation

to revise my model - melee are the real swords and all mages are spears

is there no weapon that represents mid range-targeted mages?? hmm

 

[Nev]

Don't be fools guys, it's not targeted stuns that are The Evil, it's every targeted spell.

By recognizing targeted stuns are cancer you show you're on the right track though, just keep on opening your eyes.

 

[kiunchbb]

Yeah, point and click CC has literally zero counterplay.

Looking at you fiddlesticks.

Target stun is a necessary evil to counter all the mobility champions, especially those with burst and reset.

Target stun already has short range and very low skill ceiling. So someone that master a skillshot champion will always have better chance of winning. Not to mention target spell of any kind is very predictable, the only chance they can catch you on surprise is by combing with flash.

You counter play target stun by walking backward, or throw out a skill shot since they are walking straight to you.

 

[LCGeek]

Plenty, not including myself. Quite a few gaffers have helped themselves to gold or platinum be it 5v5 or 3v3. Am about to get gold myself and have been duoing with a few gaffers to get more skill stability in the queue.

 

[Boken]

Target stun is a necessary evil to counter all the mobility champions, especially those with burst and reset.

Target stun already has short range and very low skill ceiling. So someone that master a skillshot champion will always have better chance of winning. Not to mention target spell of any kind is very predictable, the only chance they can catch you on surprise is by combing with flash.

You counter play target stun by walking backward, or throw out a skill shot since they are walking straight to you.

sword 
         vs 
              spear

essentials right here


but ya kiunch brings up important point

its like fire emblem where spear > sword > axe > spear

theres the scissors paper rock of
mobility (assassin) > skillshot (mage) > targeted (bruiser mage) > mobility (assassin)


plus we have waifu, so i think this analogy is pretty good.

 

[Kenai]

Sometimes a champion's only redeeming feature is their targeted stun (and/or skin splashart).

Non-targeted stuns are usually better in many ways anyway. Whether it's Annie or Nami or Syndra or Riven or Veigar or whoever. Shorter CD/multiltarget/longer range ect.

 

[brian!]

ya im definitely more against mobility than targeted stunz at this point in herstory but I'm not actually really against it that much either

here are the targeted cc ppl I can think of atm

lissy
fiddy
annie
ryze (?)
ruru (?)

i dunno I have a really bad memory so I can't remember these things

 

[Einbroch]

So Assassins are water, casters are fire, bruisers are grass.

 

[Boken]

ya i actually think we need MORE targeted stuns (probably on supports) to answer da assassin meta. Cos tbh, a gragas or an orianna doesnt give a shit if a squishy support is running towards them to stun them, while an assassin diving in does.

it also makes roaming more certain too


in other news, victorious elise looks more steel like now.

So Assassins are water, casters are fire, bruisers are grass.

yeah except pokemon dont have waifu
unless we're talking about female pokemon breeder. she is a super QT. or beauty. oh and female pokemon ranger is quite cool.

 

[Pandaman]

panda pls

just

get gold

Boken pls

dont get demoted for inactivity.

 

[Ocho]

Are your fast queues due to be lower ranked?

All queue times suck in LAN (normal, ranked, 5s, etc). The twitch.tv pros in Diamond 1 usually queue faster than a D1 in LAN.

 

[Einbroch]

yeah except pokemon dont have waifu
unless we're talking about female pokemon breeder. she is a super QT. or beauty. oh and female pokemon ranger is quite cool.

Uh, Guardevoir.

Spoiler

And Lopunny.

 

[Boken]

Uh, Guardevoir.

Spoiler

And Lopunny.

"...."

 

[Pancakes]

yeah except pokemon dont have waifu
unless we're talking about female pokemon breeder. she is a super QT. or beauty. oh and female pokemon ranger is quite cool.

Pokemon ranger and

Uh, Guardevoir.

Spoiler

And Lopunny.

..........................