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[UncleSporky]

A traditional PC is not required for VR, and while high end experiences do require one today, that is not the end goal. It's a stopgap. There are already ways to run VR without a PC and tech is only going to get better. The end goal is not a giant box with wires running to the headset.

I could also argue that once VR is hooked up to a traditional PC, it's not really a "desktop computer" anymore. Certainly not in the traditional sense.

In any case, desktop computers remain the future for the foreseeable future.

Doomsaying is pretty ridiculous these days when it's been demonstrated to be wrong with such consistency. Windows was said to not be the future, Linux was the future. PCs were going to die and consoles were going to be the future. Then consoles were going to die and PCs were going to be the future. It's embarrassing, the circles people keep going in because they think they've got some unique insight into how things are going to change.

 

[LordRaptor]

Because, for most people's use cases, Linux has literally zero advantages over Windows (aside from being free, which is a moot point because most people buy PCs with Windows pre installed)? And it requires quite a bit of learning. And it doesn't support all the hardware/software that Windows does.

"Linux can kinda sorta do everything Windows can do, as long as you're fairly computer savvy and are willing to put in the time and effort to learn how it works and to learn how to use alternatives to your Windows programs!" is NOT a selling point for most people. That may sound like an exciting challenge for nerds, but for most people it's a completely unnecessary pain in the ass.

whatyearisit.jpeg

Android is a thing.
Android pretty definitively puts paid to claims that customers want anything other than a thing that works at the best price point.

 

[TharpDaddy]

I think what Linux needs (specifically Ubuntu is the only distro I have experience with) is a built in tutorial for learning how to use the OS, especially for people who only have experience with Windows. For example my first thought was "okay I need to get up-to-date graphics card drivers" and there ended up not being any super easy process that I could find. I don't think Linux will find much popularity with the casual crowd if someone doesn't come up with an easy way to ease people into it. If it ends up being more of a hassle to do something than it would be on another OS then they've already lost that person imo.

 

[shark sandwich]

I think the issue is that for a lot of people Windows is the only operating system they have any familiarity with, so the idea of other operating systems is almost alien. Linux isn't a cheap Windows knock off, it's a different operating system. If you don't see the value in different operating systems then that's on you. Linux has plenty of "advantages" that Windows doesn't have, most of those advantages come from the fact it does things differently. It's nothing to do with open vs. closed source or Windows being evil, or with Linux being for "nerds".

It's irrelevant who it's "on". The fact is that most people are not going to bother with Linux unless it offers substantial benefits beyond Windows/OSX that are relevant to their use cases, and that are compelling enough to warrant self-driven learning of new ways to do almost everything.

Failure to understand this is why "the year of Linux on the desktop!" has been a running joke for like 2 decades. Laypersons do not think like computer geeks.

 

[Morinaga]

I think Linux on Desktop PCs is not quite here, but its coming. If Microsoft find a big enough gun to aim at thier foot Im sure it will take off.

But as far gaming in general its already here, both the PS4 and PS3 (and the Vita I believe, but dont quote me) run flavours of linux.

Portability for code between PS4 and steam OS could be possible, and as such could help get more games onto steam OS. (It could also be the opposite, Im just saying there is the chance)

But generally I think gaming on a linux desktop is on the up and up

 

[protomouse]

Don't you still have to buy the game from their store? Or can you use Steam on it? Or any of the other stores?

No, you're not bound to their store. Anything that has an APK you can put on a USB stick and install. You can get games off Google Play, or even install Google Play itself.

Besides, the point I was trying to drive home is that Windows is only "open" if you ignore what the EULA says, and what the DMCA is trying to enforce. Android is an open source project, down to the Linux kernel. With enough expertise, you could build your own Android system image and distribute it. Whatever walled-garden nonsense gets implemented on top is because of platform holders, not Android itself.

 

[LordRaptor]

With enough expertise, you could build your own Android system image and distribute it.

This is literally what Amazon does for their Fire branded products

 

[dragonelite]

I think Linux on Desktop PCs is not quite here, but its coming. If Microsoft find a big enough gun to aim at thier foot Im sure it will take off.

But as far gaming in general its already here, both the PS4 and PS3 (and the Vita I believe, but dont quote me) run flavours of linux.

Portability for code between PS4 and steam OS could be possible, and as such could help get more games onto steam OS. (It could also be the opposite, Im just saying there is the chance)

But generally I think gaming on a linux desktop is on the up and up

They run BSD a flavor of unix if im not mistaken.
Porting is probably easier if ps4 uses the posix standard.

 

[shark sandwich]

whatyearisit.jpeg

Android is a thing.
Android pretty definitively puts paid to claims that customers want anything other than a thing that works at the best price point.

I was clearly talking about Linux as a desktop operating system/PC gaming/Windows replacement.

 

[LordRaptor]

I was clearly talking about Linux as a desktop operating system/PC gaming/Windows replacement.

But SteamOs in BPM is so far removed from "only nerds need apply, because this is some rocket surgery level hacking the matrix level shit here" as is possible to get.

Almost nobody cares what under the hood, they care about the UX of a product.
You're not a super nerd if you can figure out how to use an Android Phone. Or a Roku Box. Or a Smart TV. Or any of the thousands of different consumer electronics utilising a linux core.

If someone really wants 'console experience' PC gaming, right now SteamOS is actually a better choice from a UX perspective than Windows is.

 

[dragonelite]

But SteamOs in BPM is so far removed from "only nerds need apply, because this is some rocket surgery level hacking the matrix level shit here" as is possible to get.

Almost nobody cares what under the hood, they care about the UX of a product.
You're not a super nerd if you can figure out how to use an Android Phone. Or a Roku Box. Or a Smart TV. Or any of the thousands of different consumer electronics utilising a linux core.

If someone really wants 'console experience' PC gaming, right now SteamOS is actually a better choice from a UX perspective than Windows is.

But don't you still need to dual boot to game on steamos and then boot in a other linux
distro to some productivity related stuff or derp on the web?

 

[gamz]

No, you're not bound to their store. Anything that has an APK you can put on a USB stick and install. You can get games off Google Play, or even install Google Play itself.

Besides, the point I was trying to drive home is that Windows is only "open" if you ignore what the EULA says, and what the DMCA is trying to enforce. Android is an open source project, down to the Linux kernel. With enough expertise, you could build your own Android system image and distribute it. Whatever walled-garden nonsense gets implemented on top is because of platform holders, not Android itself.

Right, but who wants to do that? Windows is far easier to install games and/or storefronts to install games.

 

[socksfelloff]

I'm a Linux guy. The current state of Linux is at an all time high for new users. Every Ubuntu based Distro I've installed works out of the box. I grabbed a new xps 13 and immediately slapped lubuntu on it.

For gaming. It's better then ever but offers no benefit over windows and has 1% of the software.

 

[LordRaptor]

But don't you still need to dual boot to game on steamos and then boot in a other linux
distro to some productivity related stuff or derp on the web?

No, it has a built in Web browser with various gaming related sites pre-bookmarked, and you can access a barebones Debian desktop with some basic crap like a calculator preinstalled, and from there install any Debian packages you want.

Obviously Windows only applications or games you need to dual boot to access.

What's currently there is extremely user friendly.

e:

has 1% of the software.

This is the real sticking point for most users.

 

[ricki42]

For gaming. It's better then ever but offers no benefit over windows and has 1% of the software.

Let's not make it worse than it is. On Steam, Linux is at about 25% of games. On GOG it's similar, a bit higher maybe.
Origin, uplay, and Blizzard aren't on Linux at all, but that doesn't bring it down to 1%.

 

[Arkanius]

Let's not make it worse than it is. On Steam, Linux is at about 25% of games. On GOG it's similar, a bit higher maybe.
Origin, uplay, and Blizzard aren't on Linux at all, but that doesn't bring it down to 1%.

I wish Blizzard games were on Linux.
Ubisoft and Origin wouldn't make me move to be honest. If everyone was there they would follow.

 

[Nzyme32]

Let's not make it worse than it is. On Steam, Linux is at about 25% of games. On GOG it's similar, a bit higher maybe.
Origin, uplay, and Blizzard aren't on Linux at all, but that doesn't bring it down to 1%.

I wish Blizzard games were on Linux.
Ubisoft and Origin wouldn't make me move to be honest. If everyone was there they would follow.

EA (Frostbite) and Blizzard have been working on early Vulkan development and are even integrating it to their engines. That bodes well for eventually getting to Linux

 

[cHaOs667]

I'm a Linux guy. The current state of Linux is at an all time high for new users. Every Ubuntu based Distro I've installed works out of the box. I grabbed a new xps 13 and immediately slapped lubuntu on it.

Thank Dell for their great Sputnik project. They put an tremendous amount of work in the support of the XPS laptops in the past few years contributed many Kernel changes.

 

[mcrommert]

Less CPU and RAM overhead.
Ability to have the Kernel tailored for gaming purposes.
Stability.

LOL Stability

Another decade from now we will still be having this conversation After all the changes in computing its good to see this still going.

But SteamOs in BPM is so far removed from "only nerds need apply, because this is some rocket surgery level hacking the matrix level shit here" as is possible to get.

Almost nobody cares what under the hood, they care about the UX of a product.
You're not a super nerd if you can figure out how to use an Android Phone. Or a Roku Box. Or a Smart TV. Or any of the thousands of different consumer electronics utilising a linux core.

If someone really wants 'console experience' PC gaming, right now SteamOS is actually a better choice from a UX perspective than Windows is.

You do know it take five minutes to have windows boot exactly the same? Literally that easy to make windows boot big picture as ux and not load anything else

 

[Arkanius]

LOL Stability

Another decade from now we will still be having this conversation After all the changes in computing its good to see this still going.



You do know it take five minutes to have windows boot exactly the same? Literally that easy to make windows boot big picture as ux and not load anything else

It's still loading everything else. You are just not seeing it.

 

[Nzyme32]

I find it quite amusing that again the same supporters of UWP are here in this thread, having never entered any of the other PC related threads, almost as if they have a very particular axe to grind

 

[mcrommert]

It's still loading everything else. You are just not seeing it.

I'll agree that it loads more than a linux distro would...but you can definitely keep things like explorer and some of the windows 10 processes like cortana from using system resources.

I find it quite amusing that again the same supporters of UWP are here in this thread, having never entered any of the other PC related threads, almost as if they have a very particular axe to grind

Dude if you have something to say to me...say it...stop subtweeting me. I haven't been involved in pc gaming threads because most of what i play on the pc is older due to getting newer games on xbox. That is because most of the games i play are multiplayer and most of my friends are on xbox. Also i haven't had the money for a decent gaming rig until recently.

 

[Nzyme32]

Dude if you have something to say to me...say it...stop subtweeting me. I haven't been involved in pc gaming threads because most of what i play on the pc is older due to getting newer games on xbox. That is because most of the games i play are multiplayer and most of my friends are on xbox. Also i haven't had the money for a decent gaming rig until recently.

Brilliant! Didn't even mention you. Sure that's perfectly believable.

 

[mcrommert]

Brilliant! Didn't even mention you. Sure that's perfectly believable.

If you didn't mean me i apologize

Also i want to say i don't have any issues with Linux...run virtual machines at home for plex and other services on linux and use linux constantly at work. But for gaming or as a desktop replacement it isn't there and probably never will. I get the ideological issues linux users had with windows in the 90's and 2000's...they were hostile to open source and diametrically opposed to linux. That company no longer exists and it seems silly to keep having this fight.

 

[TheSeks]

They run BSD a flavor of unix if im not mistaken.
Porting is probably easier if ps4 uses the posix standard.

PS3 is Linux (Debian, IIRC?).
PS4 is FreeBSD.

Origin, uplay, and Blizzard aren't on Linux at all, but that doesn't bring it down to 1%.

Yes, it does. Just because "25% of games on Steam are Linux-enabled" doesn't discount the 75% on Steam that are Windows-focused. Throw those in with Origin/Uplay/Battle.net titles and you do get closer to 1%. Especially with GoG-level of backlog titles from Windows 9x, XP, etc.

 

[Arkanius]

PS3 is Linux (Debian, IIRC?).
PS4 is FreeBSD.

Wasn't the PS3 FreeBSD as well?

 

[TheSeks]

Wasn't the PS3 FreeBSD as well?

Not that I'm aware of, though I guess I could ask one of the maintainers of it.

Actually, a quick Google brings up: http://doc.dl.playstation.net/doc/ps3-oss/index.html

Weird, I guess them pushing Linux as a hobbiest option made me think the OS was completely Linux and not BSD.

 

[unapersson]

It's irrelevant who it's "on". The fact is that most people are not going to bother with Linux unless it offers substantial benefits beyond Windows/OSX that are relevant to their use cases, and that are compelling enough to warrant self-driven learning of new ways to do almost everything.

Failure to understand this is why "the year of Linux on the desktop!" has been a running joke for like 2 decades. Laypersons do not think like computer geeks.

It doesn't need to have a huge desktop presence to be successful, the "year of the desktop" thing always has been a running joke, while Linux has quietly moved in everywhere else (networking, servers, supercomputers, phones, tablets, mainframes). Fortunately it has a big enough market to support multiple distributions and desktop environments, so it can continue to offer something Windows will never be able to. It's just not as killable as BeOS or OS/2.

I don't see why Windows users need to worry about Linux getting games, as you say it's not a threat to Windows or OSX, just lets us Linux users have a bit of a stake in the success of PC gaming.

 

[c0de]

Not that I'm aware of, though I guess I could ask one of the maintainers of it.

Actually, a quick Google brings up: http://doc.dl.playstation.net/doc/ps3-oss/index.html

Weird, I guess them pushing Linux as a hobbiest option made me think the OS was completely Linux and not BSD.

They use BSD because of the license. You don't have to publish your modifications you do to the kernel and other crucial parts.

 

[ricki42]

Yes, it does. Just because "25% of games on Steam are Linux-enabled" doesn't discount the 75% on Steam that are Windows-focused. Throw those in with Origin/Uplay/Battle.net titles and you do get closer to 1%. Especially with GoG-level of backlog titles from Windows 9x, XP, etc.

I'm not discounting the 75% that are not on Linux. That's implied when I say 25% are on Linux. The current number are 1965/7796 = 25.2%
And from a quick look at GOG's store, they have about 9 pages of Linux games and 29 pages of Windows games, that's about 30%.
Origin has 246 games listed. A lot of those are double counting with Steam, and some are actually on Linux on Steam (e.g. Trine, Torchlight II...) But even assuming these were all Windows- and Origin-exclusive and ignoring GOG, that would bring Linux games to
1965/8042 = 24.4%.
Battle.net lists 6 games plus 3 'classic games', that's 1965/8051 = 24.4%.
I don't know how many games are uplay exclusive, but it would have to be more than 180.000 to bring the fraction of Linux games down to 1%.

 

[Aiustis]

I might switch with my new computer

 

[TheSeks]

I'm not discounting the 75% that are not on Linux. That's implied when I say 25% are on Linux. The current number are 1965/7796 = 25.2%
And from a quick look at GOG's store, they have about 9 pages of Linux games and 29 pages of Windows games, that's about 30%.
Origin has 246 games listed. A lot of those are double counting with Steam, and some are actually on Linux on Steam (e.g. Trine, Torchlight II...) But even assuming these were all Windows- and Origin-exclusive and ignoring GOG, that would bring Linux games to
1965/8042 = 24.4%.
Battle.net lists 6 games plus 3 'classic games', that's 1965/8051 = 24.4%.
I don't know how many games are uplay exclusive, but it would have to be more than 180.000 to bring the fraction of Linux games down to 1%.

You're going mathematical. Which isn't what we're getting at. The fundamental problem with getting people to uptake Linux is the huge backlog of Windows titles that are Windows only. You can't source-port all of those and most people don't want to WINE them. Hence, Linux has "1%" of the available Windows titles.

 

[Arkanius]

One thing that I always wanted to do is using a Linux host and a Windows child VM with GPU passthrough. I would game on Linux compatible games on the Host, and played Windows exclusive games on the VM.

But that would be a temporary solution that seemed permanent

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

It's never gonna happen.
Steam OS was it's only hope and that flopped.

Don't say that. I'm counting on SteamOS to be a success so I can justify moving back into the PC Gaming space.

 

[Beautiful Ninja]

Let's not make it worse than it is. On Steam, Linux is at about 25% of games. On GOG it's similar, a bit higher maybe.
Origin, uplay, and Blizzard aren't on Linux at all, but that doesn't bring it down to 1%.

A better thing to say would be 1% of the games that matter. Linux has seen a huge jump in indie games coming to the platform since things like Unity make it easier than ever to port to everything. It still suffers from having a microscopic amount of AAA games, which ultimately are the games that get people interested in investing in new hardware or platforms.

 

[CircleOfFire]

Well, I may have been wrong on that. I will admit that I've never used Java, so my opinion is based on trusted third-parties. I'll definitely look into it more, so thank you for the correction.

Thank you for being so pleasant fellow forum dweller!

 

[emag]

PS3 is Linux (Debian, IIRC?).
PS4 is FreeBSD.

The PS3 "CellOS" is not Linux-based, but was a fork of FreeBSD. The optional alternate OS mode that the PS3 offered at launch (but was later removed) was primary for user-installed Linux, but was not used for any XMB or game functionality.

PS4's "Orbis" is also a fork of FreeBSD.

 

[blu]

They have been saying this for 20 years. Is Linux on desktop even 1% yet?

Ive used Linux for years. Mint at home and Red Hat at work. They've come a long way but it's still no where near Windows or OSX.

'Nowhere near' doing what? Playing games - sure, Windows has the advantage (if you're not a console gamer or a mobile gamer). What else - ms office? Ok, if you cannot do by the online versions or the versions of their competitors. Some professional sw has only windows version, but the reverse is also true (and a good deal of specialized sw is OSX-only too). For a good deal of PC activities most linux distors (heck, ubuntu) are as-good or better than windows. So your statement surely needs elaboration.

 

[Arkanius]

Let's not forget that there is also specialized software that does not run on Windows or MacOSX

There is exclusivity everywhere, and every tool has it's purpose. Some tasks require Windows, some tasks require Linux, but what we are all arguing here, is that Gaming could have much more potential in the Linux side if users adhered to it. Chiken and Egg argument that has been used before.

This thread is making me install a new Linux distro again and do a trial run of it for some time. Undecided on Arch Linux (again because I love installing it) or testing OpenSUSE (Never tested it)

Tried Ubuntu and Fedora in the past.

 

[Durante]

'Nowhere near' doing what? Playing games - sure, Windows has the advantage (if you're not a console gamer or a mobile gamer). What else - ms office? Ok, if you cannot do by the online versions or the versions of their competitors. Some professional sw has only windows version, but the reverse is also true (and a good deal of specialized sw is OSX-only too). For a good deal of PC activities most linux distors (heck, ubuntu) are as-good or better than windows. So your statement surely needs elaboration.

Well, I hate to get back to the topic which makes people call me a Microsoft fanboy at work, but it would be nice if anyone could ever create a C++ IDE which works for large scale modern C++ projects half as well as Visual Studio (with VAX) does.

 

[LCGeek]

You're going mathematical. Which isn't what we're getting at. The fundamental problem with getting people to uptake Linux is the huge backlog of Windows titles that are Windows only. You can't source-port all of those and most people don't want to WINE them. Hence, Linux has "1%" of the available Windows titles.

MS could get involved but they see Linux as a enemy rather than an friend. They should do it considering a tweaked Linux kernel offers them a path to deal with stuttering and buffer bloat which gamers should care about but don't. All they would have to do is figure out the BC problem which easily could be charged for once they do. It's not a problem at this point it's an excuse while they are complacent with a shitty the Windows kernel gamers accept cause they don't know any better.

 

[c0de]

Let's not forget that there is also specialized software that does not run on Windows or MacOSX

There is exclusivity everywhere, and every tool has it's purpose. Some tasks require Windows, some tasks require Linux, but what we are all arguing here, is that Gaming could have much more potential in the Linux side if users adhered to it. Chiken and Egg argument that has been used before.

This thread is making me install a new Linux distro again and do a trial run of it for some time. Undecided on Arch Linux (again because I love installing it) or testing OpenSUSE (Never tested it)

Tried Ubuntu and Fedora in the past.

Don't use Suse. I am fine with Ubuntu and Debian but of course it depends on what you want to use it for. All require a decent knowledge to some degree when stuff breaks, though.

 

[mcrommert]

Well, I hate to get back to the topic which makes people call me a Microsoft fanboy at work, but it would be nice if anyone could ever create a C++ IDE which works for large scale modern C++ projects half as well as Visual Studio (with VAX) does.

Man Durante...you are such a Microsoft fanboy

 

[justsomeguy]

MS could get involved but they see Linux as a enemy rather than an friend.

SQL Server is coming to Linux.
You can use Linux in Azure

I know this is a desktop thread - just pointing out a couple of other bits of context.

 

[gamz]

Well, I hate to get back to the topic which makes people call me a Microsoft fanboy at work, but it would be nice if anyone could ever create a C++ IDE which works for large scale modern C++ projects half as well as Visual Studio (with VAX) does.

PLANT!

 

[c0de]

Well, I hate to get back to the topic which makes people call me a Microsoft fanboy at work, but it would be nice if anyone could ever create a C++ IDE which works for large scale modern C++ projects half as well as Visual Studio (with VAX) does.

Well, there isn't an equivalent available. Of course you have eclipse and even people using vi with the craziest extensions but it just isn't the same. Of course you could put Windows in a vm while using Linux as a host but yeah, this of course has some major drawbacks.

 

[LordRaptor]

A better thing to say would be 1% of the games that matter. Linux has seen a huge jump in indie games coming to the platform since things like Unity make it easier than ever to port to everything. It still suffers from having a microscopic amount of AAA games, which ultimately are the games that get people interested in investing in new hardware or platforms.

Take Two, Paradox, Sega and WB as publishers seem on board with Linux as a viable target platform.
Recent events with Tim Sweeney would have me betting UE4 is going to get increased Linux support rather than less, and Unity is already there, so thats the two largest middlewares.

EA seem currently fine with tanking their PC marketshare to try and push Origin, so they probably won't jump too soon. In reality, the only 'swing votes' Linux is waiting on is really ActiBlizzard and Ubisoft.

 

[The Albatross]

I would love if Linux was the future of gaming. I've long yearned for a PC that I can play games on and also develop on. As it is now, I dual boot a Mac & PC, but the hardware limitations of a Mac are frustrating for gaming. I hate owning a beastly Mac that can barely play the most basic games because the videocard is a shitty mobile one, and yet, I don't want to sacrifice that development environment.

 

[c0de]

MS could get involved but they see Linux as a enemy rather than an friend.

MS just recently announced a Debian based switch os.
http://m.theregister.co.uk/2016/03/09/microsoft_sonic_debian/

 

[Durante]

Well, there isn't an equivalent available. Of course you have eclipse and even people using vi with the craziest extensions but it just isn't the same. Of course you could put Windows in a vm while using Linux as a host but yeah, this of course has some major drawbacks.

I have some hope that CLion might eventually do the trick. It seems on the right track at least.