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Linux might be the future of gaming on PC, yet I'm not doing anything to help

Thank Dell for their great Sputnik project. They put an tremendous amount of work in the support of the XPS laptops in the past few years contributed many Kernel changes.

That fact combined with the xps13 being downright beautiful are what made me buy from Dell. I changed the wifi card for an open source friendly Intel and havnt had an issue yet. Battery life and performance is spectacular under lubuntu
 

Arkanius

Member
I have some hope that CLion might eventually do the trick. It seems on the right track at least.

I bet some hardcore Emacs and Vim users will say there are plenty extensions to do everything you want in a modern IDE.

Didn't Microsoft release Visual Studio Community recently to Linux as well? With the push they are doing to cross platform C# with Xamarin, they "might" end up releasing Visual Studio in Linux.

Might
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
The PS3 "CellOS" is not Linux-based, but was a fork of FreeBSD. The optional alternate OS mode that the PS3 offered at launch (but was later removed) was primary for user-installed Linux, but was not used for any XMB or game functionality.

PS4's "Orbis" is also a fork of FreeBSD.

Right, I corrected myself a few posts down.


MS could get involved but they see Linux as a enemy rather than an friend. They should do it considering a tweaked Linux kernel offers them a path to deal with stuttering and buffer bloat which gamers should care about but don't. All they would have to do is figure out the BC problem which easily could be charged for once they do. It's not a problem at this point it's an excuse while they are complacent with a shitty the Windows kernel gamers accept cause they don't know any better.

Honestly, I've been wanting Microsoft to embrace a *NIX/BSD kernal for Windows a la OS X's refresh for Apple years ago. But I doubt that'll ever happen.

Speaking of Microsoft working with other companies, what happened with Office for Mac? Did they drop that completely post-Intel switch for Office 365 or something?
 

Durante

Member
I bet some hardcore Emacs and Vim users will say there are plenty extensions to do everything you want in a modern IDE.
Right, we get those some times at work. But since they are generally smart people they usually end up switching to an actual IDE after a few weeks of spending minutes on navigation and/or lookup and/or refactoring tasks which take IDE users seconds.

Didn't Microsoft release Visual Studio Community recently to Linux as well?
AFAIK, they only released Visual Studio "Code", which is borderline useless for large-scale C++ development.
 

diaspora

Member
Right, we get those some times at work. But since they are generally smart people they usually end up switching to an actual IDE after a few weeks of spending minutes on navigation and/or lookup and/or refactoring tasks which take IDE users seconds.

AFAIK, they only released Visual Studio "Code", which is borderline useless for large-scale C++ development.
Lol, VS code is basically notepad.
 
A big problem with Linux as a destination platform for proprietary software (as in: most games) has to do with one of it's biggest strengths: it's customizability.

Different distributions use different package managers, window managers, graphics servers, etc. When you want to install software that is not from that distribution's own package repository you'd better hope that your distribution is one of the most used (Fedora, Ubuntu, SuSE) or close enough to one of those that the packages support it. Then you have to hope that two distribution upgrades later those same packages are compatible with the installed library versions.

This isn't really a big problem with the Steam client for Linux. Steam on Linux is a self contained package manager. It uses its own collection of open source dependencies called the Steam-Runtime which works independently from the operating system dependencies to insure that games won't have dependency issues on different distro's or different versions of the same OS. It kinda works like WINE in that respect. Steam is pretty independent from the operating system itself, for the most part when it comes to handling games.
 

NotBacon

Member
That's the thing. Linux needs an form of exe that just works. Saying "Yeah you use Linux, you should rely on the command line" isn't the solution.

1. Except it is. People have been scarred for so long by Windows CMD that they don't realize that there can be a good command line interface. The Linux terminal is so much better it's not even funny. And all you really need are maybe 5 essential commands, and everything else can be done via GUI.

2. There are .deb and .elf files.

Seriously, someone needs to come up with a distro that just works, like Windows or OSX. Even Ubuntu is still not there yet.

Ubuntu has been there for a while now actually. I used it to revive numerous dying computers for relatives with minor hiccups. Of course the power to seriously mess with things is there, but for normal use cases Ubuntu certainly just works.

It's a terrible non user friendly OS that is fast, sure, but is incompatible with even the most day to day applications out there.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were more programs compatible with Linux than Windows. And of course "day to day" is subjective on your tasks.

Install Ubuntu with wubi and you can dip your toes in whenever you feel like - just choose the OS from the bios.

Dear god never do this. Wubi is deprecated for a reason. Make a live USB instead.
 

Crayon

Member
Wow you guys are up all nite.

Oh...my...god.

I installed Steam...saw all my Windows titles available for download on Steam/Elementary OS...Xcom worked flawlessly even with the funky Nvidia drivers.

And then I fucking found the official Google Chrome Linux release...installed it...and Twitch, Neflix AND Hulu all work.

Now I'm pissed because my Linux partition isn't big enough. I take back everything I said.

This link made me a believer again.

^^ Feel good post of the day.


Let's not forget that there is also specialized software that does not run on Windows or MacOSX

There is exclusivity everywhere, and every tool has it's purpose. Some tasks require Windows, some tasks require Linux, but what we are all arguing here, is that Gaming could have much more potential in the Linux side if users adhered to it. Chiken and Egg argument that has been used before.

This thread is making me install a new Linux distro again and do a trial run of it for some time. Undecided on Arch Linux (again because I love installing it) or testing OpenSUSE (Never tested it)

Tried Ubuntu and Fedora in the past.

Have you tried gnome 3? It's my favorite. Great thread, btw. There's so much I want to replay to but I can't right now so I'll just throw out some recurring thoughts I have reading the thread:

On the subject of Linux replacing windows. On one hand, I don't think classical community-driven gnu+linux (including commercial efforts like Ubuntu) is even an appropriate replacement for windows. It could and should grow and have many more users than it does now, but maybe 10% of the 386 pc market or something like that.

Is Android Linux or not? Doesn't really matter. It's Linux and it's coming for windows hard or It's not Linux and It's coming for windows hard. Same outcome. I know some people can't conceive of this but it's happening from both sides. You can see Android and Windows on this collision course.


click image for write up

Linux actually works great for gaming right now despite having room for improvement. With an affordable ($100-$200) nvidia card, most pc towers can be turned into reasonable gaming machines with linux. It's free, it installs faster, it updates faster, and it will be far more resistant to virus/malware. The proprietary nvidia gpu drivers are even a gui install for cryin out loud. Better than windows? Probably not but lets not pretend it has no advantages or could not satisfy anyone.

I think it's obvious that more invested pc gamers would prefer windows. For a power gamer taking advantage of everything windows can do and investing in equipment that needs that kind of support... of course you'd be giving up a lot. New linux gamers will have to be primarily those who are less demanding of they gaming environment, until if/when usership has grown to a point where advanced features can be supported.

How are you guys getting all these dependency problems? Just... how?
 

Nzyme32

Member
A better thing to say would be 1% of the games that matter. Linux has seen a huge jump in indie games coming to the platform since things like Unity make it easier than ever to port to everything. It still suffers from having a microscopic amount of AAA games, which ultimately are the games that get people interested in investing in new hardware or platforms.

Actually looking at the top 100 most played Steam games right now, 39 are on Linux, which is hardly 1%. If you were to look at the top 1000, assuming hypothetically that (somehow) no other games were on Linux, that would still be 3.9%. Since we know that isn't the case, I'd say "1% of games that matter" is disingenuous, especially considering how subjective even this is.
 

Arkanius

Member
Have you tried gnome 3? It's my favorite. Great thread, btw. There's so much I want to replay to but I can't right now so I'll just throw out some recurring thoughts I have reading the thread:

Linux actually works great for gaming right now despite having room for improvement. With an affordable ($100-$200) nvidia card, most pc towers can be turned into reasonable gaming machines with linux. It's free, it installs faster, it updates faster, and it will be far more resistant to virus/malware. The proprietary nvidia gpu drivers are even a gui install for cryin out loud. Better than windows? Probably not but lets not pretend it has no advantages or could not satisfy anyone.

How are you guys getting all these dependency problems? Just... how?

Yeah I've used Gnome 3. Like it a lot, so smooth and it tries something different compared to all the other Window Managers :)
 

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Well, changing to Linux based on FUD about Microsoft and there plans just isn't beneficial right now. There's zero reason for most people to switch.

If MS does what the slippery slope callers say they are going to do, then the window to jump will still be there. I personally can wait.
 

Palculator

Unconfirmed Member
Right, we get those some times at work. But since they are generally smart people they usually end up switching to an actual IDE after a few weeks of spending minutes on navigation and/or lookup and/or refactoring tasks which take IDE users seconds.
I'm writing this post in Vim using Pentadactyl and its option to use an external editor for textareas, lol. I got BBcode syntax highlighting, tab completions and everyting. You got a problem, buddy?

But yes I still use an IDE (with Vim bindings) for code because it's the best of both worlds.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Well, I hate to get back to the topic which makes people call me a Microsoft fanboy at work, but it would be nice if anyone could ever create a C++ IDE which works for large scale modern C++ projects half as well as Visual Studio (with VAX) does.
Well, Durante, I'm glad you like VS. I used to like it back in the '90s, I think (though my colleagues have never called me an ms fanboy even when I liked it, I wonder why :) Nowadays I try to get as little time in VS as possible, as it drags down my productivity. Yes, I'm a vim & gdb user who started his career two decades ago in VS but has moved on. /shrug
 

c0de

Member
Well, Durante, I'm glad you like VS. I used to like it back in the '90s, I think (though my colleagues have never called me an ms fanboy even when I liked it, I wonder why :) Nowadays I try to get as little time in VS as possible, as it drags down my productivity. Yes, I'm a vim & gdb user who started his career two decades ago in VS but has moved on. /shrug

How did you move on by just using different tools now? Just because you are more productive now doesn't mean this will apply to everyone. Also an IDE has several advantages for many right from the start, for example easy refactoring of code at all places. Yes, you can do similar with vim but it's still cumbersome. Same applies to gdb.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
How did you move on by just using different tools now?
I moved on from being VS-bound for productivity. Excuse me if I did not express myself clearly.

Just because you are more productive now doesn't mean this will apply to everyone.
I never made such a claim. I see people making the opposite, though. 'IDE or bust!' I've been through *counts on fingers* half a dozen of IDEs (at least a year of use each) across two decades, and guess what - they all have made me jump to the next one, until I realized there's no such a thing as the one IDE. Today I'd rather use a collection of sate-of-the-art tools, than one single IDE that inevitably lacks something in some aspect.

Also an IDE has several advantages for many right from the start, for example easy refactoring of code at all places. Yes, you can do similar with vim but it's still cumbersome. Same applies to gdb.
Actually everything can be cumbersome in vim and gdb to a novice. Those tools have universally-recognized steep learning curves. The question is, what awaits at the plateau part of the curve.
 

Moonstone

Member
If ,I and we, never move, we will never get more optimization in the current games to cater to us. We won’t get the new releases in parity with Windows. We will never get a focus or the attention. And we will still be at mercy from Microsoft and the decision and vision of a few instead of the collective interest of the community. If we keep waiting for someone to do go first and be the “settlers” of the gaming community in Linux, that move might never happen. We are all waiting for each other…

If you want to play AAA games and aim for performance, Linux is no competition to Windows. However Linuxgaming is a better state than it ever was. Valves initiative has pushed it and maybe it also pushed Vulkan.

Anyhoo I think that dualbooting sucks. Doesn't work for me.

An easy alternative between the extremes would be virtualization. Linux works good with that. I guess indies should run in virtual box using linux. Not sure if gaming in virtualized environment works well or at all. Some games should run, but it will probably result in more issues. But you could buy or play those that work there to express your support for the platform.

You could also ignore gaming and do your usual tasks like web, mails and stuff in a virtual linux box. No virus issues and everything is encrypted and so on. And you can easily clone amd load an older image or use a box that is not connected to the web.

With enough RAM you could also run things it on a RAM disk. Using virtual installations is the future IMO. However it is similar to the UWP concept as everything is sandboxed - but in this case you have the controll over it and you decide what you do with it.

With my next PC update I'm gonna get at least 32 GB ram and then I will have dedicated virtual machines for special tasks/purposes. But not just linux boxes.

For everything else you have your main windows OS. Linux is great for servers and it might work for desktops, but it starts if you have to use MS office - which isn't even compatible on Windows in all cases if you have different versions.

Best of both worlds!
 

ChryZ

Member
When I first installed Steam on my Linux HTPC, 80 of my then 400 games were supported. Two years later it's 280 out of 600. I think it's pretty neat value add.
 

Chastten

Banned
Doubt Linux will ever happen for gaming. Back when I was in college studying for IT-admin, we had this one classmate who was completely convinced that Linux would 'soon' get viable for gaming and destroy the evil that is Windows. This was in 2001-2005. Needless to say, it didnt happen then and it hasn't happened in the 10+ years since.

Then again, we also had this one classmate who was convinced for years that Duke Nukem Forever would release 'somewhere next year' and that eventually did, so who knows?
 

Crayon

Member
When I first installed Steam on my Linux HTPC, 80 of my then 400 games were supported. Two years later it's 280 out of 600. I think it's pretty neat value add.

Steamos is a pretty nice alternative to the steam link. You can turn a small/old/low power machine into a nice game terminal for your windows pc, while having the huge bonus of being able to run many games independently or link in chrome kiosks, streaming clients and the like.
 

Grief.exe

Member
This isn't really a big problem with the Steam client for Linux. Steam on Linux is a self contained package manager. It uses its own collection of open source dependencies called the Steam-Runtime which works independently from the operating system dependencies to insure that games won't have dependency issues on different distro's or different versions of the same OS. It kinda works like WINE in that respect. Steam is pretty independent from the operating system itself, for the most part when it comes to handling games.

That's pretty cool.
 
I played 4 months on my Linux dev system, AMD APU quad core, a lot of indies. Terrible experience. Only a bunch of 2D indies was playable and only with default drivers. The official AMD drivers were the shit, absolute shit, on my system. A simple 3D indie like Syder Arcade runs at 10-15 fps.
On Windows, on the same system, it runs perfectly.

We should accept a fact: Linux should be used only for developing, servers,security networks and computational mathematics.

Just stop saying that gaming in Linux is easy and friendly: it's a cruel lie.

I found out yesterday your post doesnt have to be true. Easy as fuck typing some "sudo" lines...installing Steam and Xcom ran fine.

Msi gtx 970
Intel 6600k cpu...
Elementary OS Freya

I went through the trial Xcom mission and it ran flawlessly.
 

Arkanius

Member
I found out yesterday your post doesnt have to be true. Easy as fuck typing some "sudo" lines...installing Steam and Xcom ran fine.

Msi gtx 970
Intel 6600k cpu...
Elementary OS Freya

I went through the trial Xcom mission and it ran flawlessly.

Thats because Intel and Nvidia performance in Linux is actually good, compared to AMD. But it's slowly improving with the Open source drivers.

And wow, today I found that Positional audio (HRTF) works system wide and with better quality than it does in Windows through Dolby Surround or CMSS-3D!

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/2ot5ov/enable_system_wide_hrtf_with_pulseaudio/

Well, two of my problems with Linux right now (3D audio and Gsync) are suddenly gone :)
 
Give at least one good reason why Linux would be better than Windows 10 for playing games? I don't understand why even bother with it

I prefer the interface when doing other stuff. Can't speak to other distros, but elementary os is like Mac OS X on a system i built myself.
 

Akoi

Member
I for one have high hopes for the next big Ubuntu release (16.04) I really am enjoying GalliumOS on my netbook, and I have fallen in love with Mint... I just can't make myself take Windows 10 off my Desktop at this point and use it over windows since I'm a big gamer. Wine doesn't work with every title out there (if it did I would use this over windows on everything)
 
Well, it's free. Other than that, many just don't like Windows as a whole because it has implications to security. This doesn't mean Linux is per se more secure in the way it's built but the reality is that the main attack programs are written for Windows and users have to actively take care of that. MS is working to do things better but the situation is what it is.
Actually, it is also just inherently more secure. Linux was built for a multi-user environment, while DOS/Windows was designed for personal use. With the advent of the internet, this became a major security problem, since every user on windows before XP was the admin by default.

Even now, the multi-user functionality is just bolted-on, and there are a lot of holes in its implementation because of that, as opposed to UNIX-likes such as Linux and OSX.
 

Arkanius

Member
Hypothetically speaking, if Valve allowed automatic Wine wrapping games that are unsupported and more than 2 years old, how would most people react?

Carmack defended that the future of Linux is through Wine and other virtualization tools:

I wish Linux well, but the reality is that it barely makes it into my top ten priorities (Burn the heretic!); I use Linux for the flight computers at Armadillo Aerospace, but not for any regular desktop work. I was happy to hear that Rage ran in Wine, but no special effort was made to support it.

I do get tempted to port to Linux for technical reasons – I would like to use Valgrind again, and Nvidia has told me that some experimental GPU features I would like to use for R&D would be easier to prove out on Linux. Working on open source Linux OpenGL drivers again would also be fun if I ever had the time.

However, I don’t think that a good business case can be made for officially supporting Linux for mainstream games today, and Zenimax doesn’t have any policy of “unofficial binaries” like Id used to have. I have argued for their value (mostly in the context of experimental Windows features, but Linux would also benefit), but my forceful internal pushes have been for the continuation of Id Software’s open source code releases, which I feel have broader benefits than unsupported Linux binaries.

I can’t speak for the executives at Zenimax, but they don’t even publish Mac titles (they partner with Aspyr), so I would be stunned if they showed an interest in officially publishing and supporting a Linux title. A port could be up and running in a week or two, but there is so much work to do beyond that for official support. The conventional wisdom is that native Linux games are not a good market. Id Software tested the conventional wisdom twice, with Quake Arena and Quake Live. The conventional wisdom proved correct. Arguments can be made that neither one was an optimal test case, but they were honest tries.

If you fervently believe that there is an actual business case to be made for Linux ports, you can make a business offer to a publisher – offer a guarantee and be willing to do the work and support. This is what Aspyr does for the Mac, and what Loki did for Linux. However, you probably can’t even get an email returned if you are offering less than six figures to a top ten publisher. This may sound ridiculous – “Who would turn away $20,000?” but the reality is that many of the same legal, financial, executive, and support resources need to be brought to bear on every single deal, regardless of size, and taking time away from something that is in the tens of millions of dollars range is often not justifiable.

I truly do feel that emulation of some sort is a proper technical direction for gaming on Linux. It is obviously pragmatic in the range of possible support, but it shouldn’t have the technical stigma that it does. There really isn’t much of anything special that a native port does – we still make OpenGL calls, winsock is just BSD sockets, windows threads become pthreads, and the translation of input and audio interfaces don’t make much difference (XInput and Xaudio2 are good APIs!). A good shim layer should have far less impact on performance than the variability in driver quality.

Translating from D3D to OpenGL would involve more inefficiencies, but figuring out exactly what the difficulties are and making some form of “D3D interop” extension for OpenGL to smooth it out is a lot easier than making dozens of completely refactored, high performance native ports.

Ideally, following a set of best practice guidelines could allow developers to get Linux versions with little more effort than supporting, say, Windows XP.
Properly evangelized, with Steam as a monetized distribution platform, this is a plausible path forward.

John Carmack

https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/statuses/298628243630723074

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/17x0sh/john_carmack_asks_why_wine_isnt_good_enough/c89sfto
 
If you want to play AAA games and aim for performance, Linux is no competition to Windows. However Linuxgaming is a better state than it ever was. Valves initiative has pushed it and maybe it also pushed Vulkan.

Anyhoo I think that dualbooting sucks. Doesn't work for me.

An easy alternative between the extremes would be virtualization. Linux works good with that. I guess indies should run in virtual box using linux. Not sure if gaming in virtualized environment works well or at all. Some games should run, but it will probably result in more issues. But you could buy or play those that work there to express your support for the platform.

Running Linux in Virtual machine with host machine being Windows 10 doesn't solve any of fundamental problems. You still surrender control over your hardware to Microsoft with their forced updates and telemetry is still there.


Would it be possible to run dual boot Linux-W10 with Windows having access to only some of the hard drives ?
 

Mooreberg

is sharpening a shovel and digging a ditch
Running Linux in Virtual machine with host machine being Windows 10 doesn't solve any of fundamental problems. You still surrender control over your hardware to Microsoft with their forced updates and telemetry is still there.


Would it be possible to run dual boot Linux-W10 with Windows having access to only some of the hard drives ?
You can partition a single hard drive, or select from more than one HDD with different OS' using a boot loader. I think anyone who wants to primarily use Linux or BSD for multimedia or productivity tasks and simultaneously have access to a larger selection of games opts for dual booting.
 
Running Linux in Virtual machine with host machine being Windows 10 doesn't solve any of fundamental problems. You still surrender control over your hardware to Microsoft with their forced updates and telemetry is still there.


Would it be possible to run dual boot Linux-W10 with Windows having access to only some of the hard drives ?

You could always do the opposite and run Windows 10 on a Virtual Machine on Linux. That way Windows is sandboxed, and you get full control over it. Some AMD cards have a pretty neat pass-through feature: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17qxEpn4EGs
 
I will never understand people who pine for Linux. It's bad enough trying to get the tech illiterate to fully grasp their iPads and desktop computers at times, never mind throwing them in to the latest hot Linux distro.
 

Moosichu

Member
José Mourinho;198946420 said:
I will never understand people who pine for Linux. It's bad enough trying to get the tech illiterate to fully grasp their iPads and desktop computers at times, never mind throwing them in to the latest hot Linux distro.

Linux has come along way. Setting it up is a bit of a pain, but if OEMs started pre-installing distros I would argue it can be a lot easier to use than windows. Running Gnome with the right extensions installed with tight Google accounts integration is gravy for the casual user.
 

Durante

Member
Well, Durante, I'm glad you like VS. I used to like it back in the '90s, I think (though my colleagues have never called me an ms fanboy even when I liked it, I wonder why :) Nowadays I try to get as little time in VS as possible, as it drags down my productivity. Yes, I'm a vim & gdb user who started his career two decades ago in VS but has moved on. /shrug
But in the 90s VS sucked hard. (I mean, it still sucks pretty hard without a few essential add-ins)

Maybe none of the people I've seen who swear by vim were using it right -- it's possible I guess, though some of them had worked with it for years -- but from what I've seen when it comes to navigating a huge source base or actually giving you useful code comprehension in e.g. a C++14 lambda with auto parameters it simply doesn't work.

I do use gdb though, all the time, and like to think I'm pretty well versed in it. That's more by necessity than choice though, for many of the things I debug and the systems they run on there really isn't any other option.
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
José Mourinho;198946420 said:
I will never understand people who pine for Linux. It's bad enough trying to get the tech illiterate to fully grasp their iPads and desktop computers at times, never mind throwing them in to the latest hot Linux distro.

Same reason I took direct x in its infancy or ms coming out of 3.11 seriously, it has potential. The difference between Linux and apple/Microsoft platforms is support. If Linux even had a fraction of it it would be league better than Windows. Yet as thread is proof of big players including Nvidia AMD and MS have given shit supper to a platform that with no doubt will offer more to gaming than window does in time. I named to real benefits it has and most gamers would appreciate if they were clued in or had real results to work from.

I make the complaints like most and yet Linux updates/distorts are pain despite plenty of Windows users putting up with the same. We both know why it's cause no one takes efforts to make updating simple. It's pathetic to me that consoles update easier than Linux do. Same for drivers being shit. The stuttering support in Windows is unsolvable without fixing th scheduler or driver interaction which causes the spiking. MS has minimized it as win10 has show, but a game like Arkham knight is proof when latencymon checke the kernel is crap. OP shouldn't feel like he's at fault for a complacent industry penny pinching by consumers while downplaying real issues that rob gamers of peak or smooth performance. The same can be said for squandering an OS and not fixing legit issue for 4 iterations then at the same time trying to make a shitty walled garden and various proprietary DX APIs that while good but closed keep from spreading as far and wide as they could.Engines aren't the only reason, certainly not the core reason frametimes can suck like they do.

To certain posters informing about MS Linux and working with it, I'm aware and said similar things in a thread or two but not all.
 

Arkanius

Member
Same reason I took direct x in its infancy or ms coming out of 3.11 seriously, it has potential. The difference between Linux and apple/Microsoft platforms is support. If Linux even had a fraction of it it would be league better than Windows. Yet as thread is proof of big players including Nvidia AMD and MS have given shit supper to a platform that with no doubt will offer more to gaming than window does in time. I named to real benefits it has and most gamers would appreciate if they were clued in or had real results to work from.

I make the complaints like most and yet Linux updates/distorts are pain despite plenty of Windows users putting up with the same. We both know why it's cause no one takes efforts to make updating simple. It's pathetic to me that consoles update easier than Linux do. Same for drivers being shit. The stuttering support in Windows is unsolvable without fixing th scheduler or driver interaction which causes the spiking. MS has minimized it as win10 has show, but a game like Arkham knight is proof when latencymon checke the kernel is crap. OP shouldn't feel like he's at fault for a complacent industry penny pinching by consumers while downplaying real issues that rob gamers of peak or smooth performance. The same can be said for squandering an OS and not fixing legit issue for 4 iterations then at the same time trying to make a shitty walled garden and various proprietary DX APIs that while good but closed keep from spreading as far and wide as they could.Engines aren't the only reason, certainly not the core reason frametimes can suck like they do.

To certain posters informing about MS Linux and working with it, I'm aware and said similar things in a thread or two but not all.

Interesting view into the frame pacing problem. Has there ever been benchmarks of frame pacing done in Linux to compare against windows in equal performance games ?
 

c0de

Member
Actually everything can be cumbersome in vim and gdb to a novice. Those tools have universally-recognized steep learning curves. The question is, what awaits at the plateau part of the curve.

Oh, I don't want to use anything other than vim to edit files, tbh. But I see the point when having huge projects with many source code files that people prefer an IDE over vim. An IDE is not only about editing files but also managing files, in my opinion.
 

PantsuJo

Member
I found out yesterday your post doesnt have to be true. Easy as fuck typing some "sudo" lines...installing Steam and Xcom ran fine.

Msi gtx 970
Intel 6600k cpu...
Elementary OS Freya

I went through the trial Xcom mission and it ran flawlessly.

The facts prove you are wrong, in my opinion.

This is your experience, with your hardware (powerful and not AMD, this helps a lot) and your installation. And, again, yours is another exception, not the absolute truth for all the users that wants to join gaming on Linux or use it as home system.

If Linux would be excellent for gaming and home tasks (aside from specific media center distros) there would be more than 1% of users that use it with Steam.

But even in the community of teachers/programmers or students like me, that use distros everyday, Linux is used only for specific tasks, not as daily use system.

I will never forget the shitty performance with default Ubuntu drivers and Amd drivers too, tsk.
 
The facts prove you are wrong, in my opinion.

This is your experience, with your hardware (powerful and not AMD, this helps a lot) and your installation. And, again, yours is another exception, not the absolute truth for all the users that wants to join gaming on Linux or use it as home system.

If Linux would be excellent for gaming and home tasks (aside from specific media center distros) there would be more than 1% of users that use it with Steam.

But even in the community of teachers/programmers or students like me, that use distros everyday, Linux is used only for specific tasks, not as daily use system.

I will never forget the shitty performance with default Ubuntu drivers and Amd drivers too, tsk.

The fact is that Microsoft have pretty much owned the PC hardware distribution channel for decades now. That's the cause of the 1% Linux usage. The average user can't buy it if they don't see it. They're also pretty aggressive about anything attempting to make inroads there. None of the Linux distributors have the power to tackle that.

The 1% represents those determined enough to download a new OS and install that on their machine. I wonder how that percentage compares who those who do the equivalent with their phones.
 
I bet some hardcore Emacs and Vim users will say there are plenty extensions to do everything you want in a modern IDE.

Didn't Microsoft release Visual Studio Community recently to Linux as well? With the push they are doing to cross platform C# with Xamarin, they "might" end up releasing Visual Studio in Linux.

Might

I believe they are going to use the eclipse ide plugin system,
i rather see them do something like Android studio and fork intellij community.
Kinda have a lot of bad experience with eclipse android development back in school.
 
How did you move on by just using different tools now? Just because you are more productive now doesn't mean this will apply to everyone. Also an IDE has several advantages for many right from the start, for example easy refactoring of code at all places. Yes, you can do similar with vim but it's still cumbersome. Same applies to gdb.

I find myself more and more doing code in text editors and when i need the debug tools
i jump into visual studio. I actually quiet like the new visual studio code, the plugin
environment is still a bit lackluster but that community is growing.

Considering Erich Gamma is now working with them, that doesn't seem unlikely. Also, Eclipse is rad. Ctrl+Shift+T and Ctrl+3 all day.

My eclipse experience is from 4 years ago when android development was really shaky.
 

Palculator

Unconfirmed Member
My eclipse experience is from 4 years ago when android development was really shaky.
To be fair, I have 0 experience regarding Android development in Eclipse. Just pure Java SE/EE and server stuff, but for that it's great. I don't even like Java that much but I do like Eclipse a lot, so swings and roundabouts.
 
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