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[Vagabundo]

I get what you're saying, I'm just suggesting that temporary self-applied lobotomy is a bad way to watch movies, period. Or rather, I'd avoid watching/rewatching films that necessitate such an action before entering the theater/hitting play on the blu-ray.

Depends on my mood. I'd usually just catch them on terrestrial TV while flicking around and half way through an action scene. Same with James Bond films etc. Perfect for a rainy Sunday afternoon family time.

I don't think it's bad/wrong fun to enjoy movies like this.

 

[Boem]

I hope to god that Disney's yearly Star Wars movie schedule means we'll get a thread like this every year.

 

[void666]

PerezDeCorcho is on a crusade to enlighten the heathens on why TFA sucks.
This is now an EPIC thread.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I hope to god that Disney's yearly Star Wars movie schedule means we'll get a thread like this every year.

I dont' think threads like this will have anything to do with Lucasfilm's slate.

It depends solely on the existence of a PerezDeCorcho and his misguided application of words/concepts he doesn't have the firmest of grasps on.

 

[QuantumZebra]

Depends on my mood. I'd usually just catch them on terrestrial TV while flicking around and half way through an action scene. Same with James Bond films etc. Perfect for a rainy Sunday afternoon family time.

I don't think it's bad/wrong fun to enjoy movies like this.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the prequels - but trying to say they can even sniff TFA's unwashed socks is laughable.

Defending them as some sort of misunderstood "vision" of Lucas is just as bad as the people saying everyone misunderstood Snyder's "vision" with BvS.

It's just mental gymnastics to try and justify distorted opinions about shitty films.

I dont' think threads like this will have anything to do with Lucasfilm's slate.

It depends solely on the existence of a PerezDeCorcho and his misguided application of words/concepts he doesn't have the firmest of grasps on.

I'm glad this has spilled over from disbelief/trying to reason into just watching the trainwreck unfold.

It's amazing to see someone using criticisms of TFA to call it a disgrace when the exact same criticisms being used can shred the OT to pieces. And then trying to justify the PT as if they weren't complete trash is just the cherry on top.

 

[Boem]

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the prequels - but trying to say they can even sniff TFA's unwashed socks is laughable.

Defending them as some sort of misunderstood "vision" of Lucas is just as bad as the people saying everyone misunderstood Snyder's "vision" with BvS.

It's just mental gymnastics to try and justify distorted opinions about shitty films.

To be fair to people using that criticism, I definitely didn't understand Lucas's vision for the prequels.

 

[BFIB]

Something so simple could be explained with:

"Yeah, Finn. I used to pilot things back in the day when this this and that happened."

That's all I would have needed to know. That's all it would have taken.

When I heard "WE'VE GOT ONE!", I literally thought she was referring to a third party (which doesn't make much sense in itself). Way too vague. Just say you're a fucking pilot.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

Something so simple could be explained with:

"Yeah, Finn. I used to pilot things back in the day when this this and that happened."

That's all I would have needed to know. That's all it would have taken.

When I heard "WE'VE GOT ONE!", I literally thought she was referring to a third party (which doesn't make much sense in itself). Way too vague. Just say you're a fucking pilot.

This can't be real...

 

[QuantumZebra]

This can't be real...

I say that everytime I see somebody putting a prequel movie over TFA or ROTJ.

Buuuut it's real.

I like to think those same people are the ones you see in surveys that also think the Earth is flat and that Obama is Muslim.

 

[Surfinn]

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the prequels - but trying to say they can even sniff TFA's unwashed socks is laughable.

Defending them as some sort of misunderstood "vision" of Lucas is just as bad as the people saying everyone misunderstood Snyder's "vision" with BvS.

It's just mental gymnastics to try and justify distorted opinions about shitty films.



I'm glad this has spilled over from disbelief/trying to reason into just watching the trainwreck unfold.

It's amazing to see someone using criticisms of TFA to call it a disgrace when the exact same criticisms being used can shred the OT to pieces. And then trying to justify the PT as if they weren't complete trash is just the cherry on top.

It's interesting because I was around the forums for the build up and release of TFA (why I even signed up to post in the first place because I was so excited about a new SW film), GAF was absolutely on board with the movie and loved it to bits, of course with some criticism.

Flash forward. I come back less than two months later and everyone hates it for the exact same reasons listed during its release.

So much so, people actually started trashing the OT in order to drive their hatred for TFA into new heights.

It's pretty incredible, really. Not what's happening in this case obviously, but it's amazing to see what people are willing to do to support their opinion.

 

[tuffy]

ANH doesn't bother to establish Luke's fighter piloting credentials until he's literally in uniform, sitting in on the briefing, and going on about bullseye-ing womp rats. Sometimes characters' abilities can be inferred with minimal information and don't need to be explicitly spelled out.

 

[QuantumZebra]

It's interesting because I was around the forums for the build up and release of TFA (why I even signed up to post in the first place because I was so excited about a new SW film), GAF was absolutely on board with the movie and loved it to bits, of course with some criticism.

Flash forward. I come back less than two months later and everyone hates it for the exact same reasons listed during its release.

So much so, people actually started trashing the OT in order to drive their hatred for TFA into new heights.

It's pretty incredible, really. Not what's happening in this case obviously, but it's amazing to see what people are willing to do to support their opinion.

I think what's happening is the majority loved the film (and still do) - but over time the voices of people who either want to hate it for agenda reasons / legitimately just hate it (no clue why) rise up to the top because the people who loved it have moved on and don't feel a need to discuss it further.

It happens with a lot of films TBH, but what surprises me in this case is like you said, people are willing to prop up the PT like it wasn't an abomination or bring down the OT just to critique TFA.

ANH doesn't bother to establish Luke's fighter piloting credentials until he's literally in uniform, sitting in on the briefing, and going on about bullseye-ing womp rats. Sometimes characters' abilities can be inferred with minimal information and don't need to be explicitly spelled out.

Yes but Luke has a penis so all the ridiculous stuff he can do without explanation is totally ok.

 

[Vagabundo]

There's nothing wrong with enjoying the prequels - but trying to say they can even sniff TFA's unwashed socks is laughable.

Defending them as some sort of misunderstood "vision" of Lucas is just as bad as the people saying everyone misunderstood Snyder's "vision" with BvS.

It's just mental gymnastics to try and justify distorted opinions about shitty films.

Considering that I'd actively enjoy watching one of the prequels and actively disliked watching TFA I think it's irrelevant who is sniffing who's underwear. The proof of the pudding is in the eating and TFA tastes awful to me.

And I went into the film with high hopes, really wanting to like it. It started badly with Finn, Rey on the desert world was an up, and as soon as they left the planet it all went to dull shite.

I was bored and disappointed half way through. TFA might a better film than the prequels but its a worse Star Wars film in my book.

Yes but Luke has a penis so all the ridiculous stuff he can do without explanation is totally ok.

We've all be over this in previous TFA threads. Rey's force progression is off the charts compared to Lukes.

So obviously vagina's have way more force savant potential.

 

[Surfinn]

Considering that I'd actively enjoy watching one of the prequels and actively disliked watching TFA I think it's irrelevant who is sniffing who's underwear. The proof of the pudding is in the eating and TFA tastes awful to me.

And I went into the film with high hopes, really wanting to like it. It started badly with Finn, Rey on the desert world was an up, and as soon as they left the planet it all went to dull shite.

I was bored and disappointed half way through. TFA might a better film than the prequels but its a worse Star Wars film in my book.

How many times have you seen it? I felt the same way the first time in theaters and slowly started enjoying it. Love it now.

 

[old manatee]

I think what's happening is the majority loved the film (and still do) - but over time the voices of people who either want to hate it for agenda reasons / legitimately just hate it (no clue why) rise up to the top because the people who loved it have moved on and don't feel a need to discuss it further.

It happens with a lot of films TBH, but what surprises me in this case is like you said, people are willing to prop up the PT like it wasn't an abomination or bring down the OT just to critique TFA.



Yes but Luke has a penis so all the ridiculous stuff he can do without explanation is totally ok.

That's how it reads to me, too. I doubt he would have accepted Rey as a pilot even if Lucas had made a prequel about her time in flight school.

 

[Boem]

Edit: never mind, maybe I shouldn't make fun of the guy.

 

[TheXbox]

ANH doesn't bother to establish Luke's fighter piloting credentials until he's literally in uniform, sitting in on the briefing, and going on about bullseye-ing womp rats. Sometimes characters' abilities can be inferred with minimal information and don't need to be explicitly spelled out.

Nope.

"I'm not such a bad pilot myself!"

Whining about flight school, stuck on the farm

Obi Wan talking about Anakin's piloting prowess

Obi Wan complimenting Luke on being a good pilot

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Stars Wars series as rated by the critics

Stars Wars Episode V - 94% Fresh - Average 8.9/10
Star Wars: Episode IV - 94% Fresh - Average 8.6/10
Star Wars Episode VII - 92% Fresh - Average: 8.2/10
Star Wars Episode III - 79% Fresh - Average: 7.3/10
Star Wars Episode VI - 80% Fresh - Average: 7.2/10
Star Wars Episode II - 65% - Average: 6.7/10
Star Wars Episode I - 56% Rotten - Avergae: 6/10

This list is pretty much the same as mine except for the higher ranking of TFA. Maybe once the trilogy is complete, I can appreciate TFA as well.

 

[Oidisco]

These threads about TFA are great.

Personally I've never been a huge fan of Star Wars but I loved TFA. I do have a lot of little issues with it, but the characters alone more than make up for it all.

And just throwing it out there, Rey grabbing the lightsaber is my favourite moment in the entire franchise.

 

[jonezer4]

Obi-Wan started as an apprentice in TPM, then has Anakin as his apprentice, leading to becoming a Jedi Master and the final duel with his own apprentice. All of it was great to me and it took 3 movies but it was worth it.

Changing jobs, getting older, and fighting a shitty apprentice is not character development. There is almost no character development in all of the prequels. The closest thing to it is Anakin's "arc" but he's pretty much a piece of shit from the beginning of AOTC on, so even that's arguable.

 

[Vagabundo]

How many times have you seen it? I felt the same way the first time in theaters and slowly started enjoying it. Love it now.

Just the once. I'll consider watching it again in a year or so on Netflix, maybe. Maybe a fan edit might be able to fix it up.

 

[Surfinn]

Just the once. I'll consider watching it again in a year or so on Netflix, maybe. Maybe a fan edit might be able to fix it up.

I suggest watching it a second time unedited. Please. You should give it another shot before throwing it away. Try to pay close attention to the character interactions, cinematography, visual storytelling, and what the events in TFA mean moving forward.

It's a great movie.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

Edit: never mind, maybe I shouldn't make fun of the guy.

Brilliant

Edit: Damnit, I ended up quoting your edit! Loved the original version.

 

[Vagabundo]

I suggest watching it a second time unedited. Please. You should give it another shot before throwing it away. Try to pay close attention to the character interactions, cinematography, visual storytelling, and what the events in TFA mean moving forward.

It's a great movie.

It might be. I think I could have enjoyed it more if it didn't have Star Wars slapped on to the name. There are just too many thing that jive badly with my idea of Star Wars.

 

[Drencrom]

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi
4. The Force Awakens
5. Revenge of the Sith
6. The Phantom Menance
7. Attack of the Clones

Hmm, everything seems to be in order

 

[eot]

For me it's:

Empire
A New Hope
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi (fuck ewoks)
The Phantom Menace
Revenge of the Sith
Attack of the Clones

TPM / ROTS can be switch arbitrarily. They're just both better than Clones and worse than the rest.

 

[Kettch]

As for the villain, TFA has arguably the weakest villain in the series. He is worse than Darth Maul from TPM. What were they thinking? They tried to imitate another Darth Vader and even showed him worshiping the mask of Darth Vader (cringe scene), but he never came close.

I think you missed the point of his character, because that's entirely intentional. He wants to be Darth Vader but doesn't have that kind of power/presence/confidence, that's what is eating away at him the entire movie and what he's desperately trying to overcome.

 

[Surfinn]

I think you missed the point of his character, because that's entirely intentional. He wants to be Darth Vader but doesn't have that kind of power/presence/confidence, that's what is eating away at him the entire movie and what he's desperately trying to overcome.

But of course that automatically means "Kylo's a little bitch" after our eighth grade level critical thinking right? (directed at the consensus of GAF).

That's what's most annoying out of all the "criticism", maybe even more so than the Mary Sue shit.

It might be. I think I could have enjoyed it more if it didn't have Star Wars slapped on to the name. There are just too many thing that jive badly with my idea of Star Wars.

When I watched it for the 10th time a few days ago, I thought to myself "holy shit, I'm watching a new, complete SW film, and it feels great".

So glad I gave it another shot.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

WTF happened to this thread!?

 

[old manatee]

WTF happened to this thread!?

It's like that scene in the Matrix where Neo has to fight off hundreds of Agent Smiths.

 

[BFIB]

WTF happened to this thread!?

All TFA threads become a haven for scum and villainy.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

Changing jobs, getting older, and fighting a shitty apprentice is not character development. There is almost no character development in all of the prequels. The closest thing to it is Anakin's "arc" but he's pretty much a piece of shit from the beginning of AOTC on, so even that's arguable.

This is getting silly. If this was the case, the final in the trilogy would have next to none impact on people. Critics loved it. Fans loved it and called it a return of Star Wars as a series. The main characters that were introduced over the course of movies: Palpatine, Obi-Wan, Anakin finally fulfilled their purpose in the conclusion. As sloppy as the execution was, no one would give any shit about them if there was no character development as you said. The final battle might as well have been between two randoms at that point.

 

[void666]

WTF happened to this thread!?

It's boring now. Where is our hero?

 

[Boem]

Brilliant

Edit: Damnit, I ended up quoting your edit! Loved the original version.

Okay okay, back by popular demand. Deleted it because I was afraid it'd be too mean. Perez, I'm sorry if it is - in return I promise I won't debate Star Wars with you anymore.
Original post:


I hereby humbly present a Perez-proof version of TFA. I'll be pitching it to Disney shortly.

A long time ago (but after Return of the Jedi), in a galaxy far, far away...

Opening Crawl:

Star Wars
Episode VII (7)
The Force Awakens

This Star Wars takes place after EPISODE SIX.
Han and Leia had a kid, but broke up after that.
LUKE SKYWALKER tried to teach the kid to become a jedi.
He turned BAD, and turned into a LESS POWERFUL DARTH VADER.
Now some guy is trying to find out where Luke is hanging out.

End of the opening crawl.

The camera pans down. We see a planet, and a Star Destroyer moves into view. Inside, amidst flashing lights, we see Stormtroopers getting ready to land.

Finn: Man, I know I went to the Stormtrooper Academy, the one that they opened since they stopped using the clones that you folks at home may have seen in STAR WARS EPISODE 2: ATTACK OF THE CLONES, but right now I'm not sure I want to be a Stormtrooper anymore.

Stormfriend: Hey man, don't worry about it. I'm your best friend! We met in the Stormtrooper Academy, and now we can't get enough of each other. I sure hope nothing bad happens to me on this mission, because that would cause you to lose all faith in our cause.

Finn: It sure would!

Female Stormleader: Get ready fellow Stormtroopers! We are approaching the planet of Jakku! It's a planet, and we, stormtroopers of the evil empire, are on a mission. Also, I am a woman, as I have breasts. I got them at the occasion of my birth.

- some time later -

Stormfriend: Oh no, I've been killed by this laser blast! Now I'm dying!

Finn: Oh no, you're my best friend and now you're dead. This event is starting to make me doubt all my life choices. Perhaps I should consider quitting.

etc.

Spoiler

I'm sorry.

 

[winjet81]

Stars Wars series as rated by the critics

Stars Wars Episode V - 94% Fresh - Average 8.9/10
Star Wars: Episode IV - 94% Fresh - Average 8.6/10
Star Wars Episode VII - 92% Fresh - Average: 8.2/10
Star Wars Episode III - 79% Fresh - Average: 7.3/10
Star Wars Episode VI - 80% Fresh - Average: 7.2/10
Star Wars Episode II - 65% - Average: 6.7/10
Star Wars Episode I - 56% Rotten - Avergae: 6/10

This list is pretty much the same as mine except for the higher ranking of TFA. Maybe once the trilogy is complete, I can appreciate TFA as well.

I'm good with TFA and can wholly understand Episode VI's lower ranking... it has FAR more in common with the crappy prequels that it does with Episodes IV and V.

 

[Surfinn]

This is getting silly. If this was the case, the final in the trilogy would have next to none impact on people. Critics loved it. Fans loved it and called it a return of Star Wars as a series. The main characters that were introduced over the course of movies: Palpatine, Obi-Wan, Anakin finally fulfilled their purpose in the conclusion. As sloppy as the execution was, no one would give any shit about them if there was no character development as you said. The final battle might as well have been between two randoms at that point.

In all fairness, fans and critics alike were frothing at the mouth for an even semi-competent and decent SW film after the first two.

In hindsight, ROTS is a poorly acted and directed film where nearly all of the effective character development happens. EP1/2 were terrible attempts at even making the main cast feel human. EP3 simply had been the closest any of the PT had gotten to any sort of success. Not to mention filming someone literally become Darth Vader has to be the juiciest premise in recent memory.

Had the first two somehow been excellent films, the third would have been much, much lower across the board in terms of reception. The flaws would have become that much more apparent.

 

[JohnnyWestlake]

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. A New Hope
4. Attack of the Clones
5. Return of the Jedi
6. The Phantom Menace
7. The Force Awakens

There's my list, sticking too it. Lucas' execution may have been lacking, but he had a general good idea of what made Star Wars Star Wars. The Force Awakens was made by fans imo, without a proper understanding of the universe. Rather, they were emulating the movies than the actual world it created, and it falls flat. It fails to lead the Star Wars universe anywhere exciting, and fails to introduce any decent new ideas to expand the universe in any significant way.

Don't get me wrong, there's new stuff in it, but I didn't care for any of it. Also, the entire tatooine section of RotJ let it down. AotC only gets ahead because I enjoyed it's ending sequences.



As an aside, I do think Kylo Ren would have made a better Anakin Skywalker than Anakin Skywalker. Shame it didn't play out that way :/

 

[Bobby Roberts]

The Force Awakens was made by fans imo, without a proper understanding of the universe.

Lawrence Kasdan: Just a fan with no proper understanding of Star Wars.

 

[Vault Dweller 111]

but he had a general good idea of what made Star Wars Star Wars.

I could not disagree more.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

I think you missed the point of his character, because that's entirely intentional. He wants to be Darth Vader but doesn't have that kind of power/presence/confidence, that's what is eating away at him the entire movie and what he's desperately trying to overcome.

That has been pointed out several times in the thread and this might have been a lack of oversight on my part, since this is just the first viewing of TFA for me, but this doesn't necessarily make him a better villain. The scene between him and Han Solo felt forced and knowing the character of Kylo Ren won't make it better.

I understand it was likely Ford who wanted himself out of future movies hence the writers had to conjure something up in order to get him killed. But that was definitely not a good way to deal with it.

In all fairness, fans and critics alike were frothing at the mouth for an even semi-competent and decent SW film after the first two.

In hindsight, ROTS is a poorly acted and directed film where nearly all of the effective character development happens. EP1/2 were terrible attempts at even making the main cast feel human. EP3 simply had been the closest any of the PT had gotten to any sort of success. Not to mention filming someone literally become Darth Vader has to be the juiciest premise in recent memory.

Had the first two somehow been excellent films, the third would have been much, much lower across the board in terms of reception. The flaws would have become that much more apparent.

The same can be said for TFA to be honest. After the bad taste of prequels, Fans were hoping for a return to the form for the series and what better way to do it then a movie that harkens back to the classic Star Wars.

Anyways, TFA might have laid out a strong foundation for this new trilogy but it remains to be seen what happens with the rest of the two movies. For all we know, it can be another ESB to ROTJ case here. If this happens, maybe people won't be remembering TFA as fondly as they did when they originally saw it. It remains to be seen if TFA can truly withstand the test of time.

 

[Jito]

This is getting silly. If this was the case, the final in the trilogy would have next to none impact on people. Critics loved it. Fans loved it and called it a return of Star Wars as a series. The main characters that were introduced over the course of movies: Palpatine, Obi-Wan, Anakin finally fulfilled their purpose in the conclusion. As sloppy as the execution was, no one would give any shit about them if there was no character development as you said. The final battle might as well have been between two randoms at that point.

Anakins character arc in the prequels is act like a dumb kid for a whole film then proceed to be pissy for two whole movies before taking a drastic swing to evil.

Obi Wans character arc is......he grew a beard? He gets more annoyed at Anakin as the movies go on?

It essentially was a battle between to random people with the names of characters I knew from better films.

 

[JohnnyWestlake]

Lawrence Kasdan: Just a fan with no proper understanding of Star Wars.

Lucas had an entire vision for his own universe. Kasdan is a movie screenwriter. He can write a film, but it doesn't do it for me capturing the same sense of magic Lucas' visions did. Granted Lucas can't write a screenplay for shit, and probably isn't the most fantastic director, but the general direction of his ideas were good. Married with a good screenwriter to polish them up the Prequels could have been something people actually liked. I'd be interested to see if some far future Lucas' original ideas for the new trilogy. It was probably far more ambitious and different from what we have now.

I think that's the bonus - Lucas wasn't afraid to make it not more of the same, but something new. It's his universe, and he wasn't afraid to do things with it. Everything in the Force Awakens played it too safe with little real excitement to talk about. BB-8 is cool, Ren's Saber is cool, but there's nothing inherently new here universe wise.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Lucas had an entire vision for his own universe.

Not really. He made the shit up as he went along. There wasn't much of an overarching vision. Which is fine. Making it up as you go along is just as viable a creative choice.

But to suggest that nobody working on TFA understood Star Wars when one of its co-writers is responsible for helping create its best chapter? Nah, buddy.

 

[Dash_Riprock]

Lucas had an entire vision for his own universe.

1.)LMFAO no he didn't. Read Secret History

2.) What little he did have was utter shit, and was saved by rewrites and input from others, Kasdan being one of them.

 

[Surfinn]

Lucas had an entire vision for his own universe. Kasdan is a movie screenwriter. He can write a film, but it doesn't do it for me capturing the same sense of magic Lucas' visions did. I'd be interested to see if some far future Lucas' original ideas for the trilogy. It was probably far more ambitious.

What..?

Did he not write the screenplay for the best cinematic moment in history (Yoda/Luke and the X-Wing)? Or am I missing something?

That's magic.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

This thread's unearthing the crazies.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

1.)LMFAO no he didn't. Read Secret History

Well, don't do that.

Rinzler's books make it pretty clear, and are way more neutral about the documenting of that story.

 

[JohnnyWestlake]

Not really. He made the shit up as he went along. There wasn't much of an overarching vision. Which is fine. Making it up as you go along is just as viable a creative choice.

But to suggest that nobody working on TFA understood Star Wars when one of its co-writers is responsible for helping create its best chapter? Nah, buddy.

Well I was more considering since the prequel trilogy and regarding his ideas for the next trilogy. He had an idea of what he wanted. He obviously doesn't have the full darn plan already written out He had an idea of where he wanted to take the universe 7 - 9 wise - probably more so than anyone else considering he's lived in it for decades at his own whim, and he also has a good feel for what he thinks works. Obviously he hasn't got the entire future of it written down in a 10,000 page document somewhere.

Kasadan on the other hand hasn't been stuck in Star Wars for the past 30 odd years evolving the entire universe around him - and it shows given how stuck on the original trilogy the Force Awakens turned out to be (although that may also be Abram's fault)

It's the only film I've been excited about that I've wanted to walk out of. Jakku started it well, everything else afterwards devolved into just a mess. Although it also doesn't help these films aren't being given the proper development time - things like Lupita's character scream of something being pushed out too fast to meet a schedule.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Kasadan on the other hand hasn't been stuck in Star Wars for the past 30 odd years evolving the entire universe around him

Don't see how this is a bad thing.

 

[BFIB]

Well I was more considering since the prequel trilogy and regarding his ideas for the next trilogy. He had an idea of what he wanted. He obviously doesn't have the full darn plan already written out He had an idea of where he wanted to take the universe 7 - 9 wise - probably more so than anyone else considering he's lived in it for decades at his own whim, and he also has a good feel for what he thinks works. Obviously he hasn't got the entire future of it written down in a 10,000 page document somewhere.

Kasadan on the other hand hasn't been stuck in Star Wars for the past 30 odd years evolving the entire universe around him - and it shows given how stuck on the original trilogy the Force Awakens turned out to be (although that may also be Abram's fault)

It's the only film I've been excited about that I've wanted to walk out of. Jakku started it well, everything else afterwards devolved into just a mess. Although it also doesn't help these films aren't being given the proper development time - things like Lupita's character scream of something being pushed out too fast to meet a schedule.

Its no coincidence that Kasdan in one script, wrote the characters the best they've ever been in Empire.