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http://forums.marvelheroes.com/discussion/106851/raid-loot-quick-note

AWESOME!!!!

Pretty good news.


If I'm honest, I'll probably get a little more interested in Raids in general once I've caught up and got all the characters to 60, maxed my hero synergy bonus etc., but "loot" from Raids at this point is a minor interest for me too.

Glad they're listening to the popular opinion though and making Raids accessible to more/all. Gaz are great with community feedback.

 

[KePoW]

Fantastic to see it stated clearly. The right way to go.

Edit: Though I don't think they specified that the gear got through alternate methods would be exactly the same, otherwise it's still a bit disappointing. They say "raid grade". It does say alternate acquisition method, so I hope that means it's the same gear.

Why should it be the same? I'm not trying to be contrarian or get into a long argument, just asking straight out.

WoW loot is lesser grade when doing the raid-finder, as it should be. Because it's a heck of a lot easier and faster.

Why should someone soloing get the same level raid loot in a MMORPG? That doesn't make any sense to me.

*Unless* they somehow balance it where it's just as hard and time-consuming to do that solo content. If that's truly the case, then I don't have a problem with it. But call me skeptical in trying to balance that out.

Think of it this way -- Why would anyone bother going thru the effort of putting a raid together, if they can get the same exact loot solo and it's faster/quicker?

MMORPG's should give *more* incentive to group up, otherwise very few people will. I already have a hard enough time getting people to do X-Def.

 

[Dec]

Why should it be the same? I'm not trying to be contrarian or get into a long argument, just asking straight out.

WoW loot is lesser grade when doing the raid-finder, as it should be. Because it's a heck of a lot easier and faster.

Why should someone soloing get the same level raid loot in a MMORPG? That doesn't make any sense to me.

*Unless* they somehow balance it where it's just as hard and time-consuming to do that solo content. If that's truly the case, then I don't have a problem with it. But call me skeptical in trying to balance that out.

Think of it this way -- Why would anyone bother going thru the effort of putting a raid together, if they can get the same exact loot solo and it's faster/quicker?

MMORPG's should give *more* incentive to group up, otherwise very few people will. I already have a hard enough time getting people to do X-Def.

Are you serious with this? They would play the raid because they enjoy it. If I'm doing something I don't enjoy to get better gear that isn't needed anywhere else in the game I'm wasting my fucking time.

You can't even look at someone and see that they have gotten raid gear, like in those games. You would need to inspect them, which who ever does to randos in hubs?

This literally doesn't affect people that actually want to do the raid for fun.

 

[Uthred]

Why should it be the same? I'm not trying to be contrarian or get into a long argument, just asking straight out.

Why shouldnt it be the same? Ideally you should be doing what you find most fun in a game and the game should facillitate that, so if people prefer soloing they shouldnt be penalised and if people prefer raiding likewise. If you enjoy raiding what does it matter if someone can get equivalent gear playing solo? As its all PvE gear its not like it gives them an advantage over you, ultimately most peoples gear only really affects themselves. The only reason I can see for it is that raids are generally harder (often due more to "logistics" than anything else) so people that raid feel (rightly or wrongly) that raid gear is a visual sign of prestige and that people getting the same gear solo somehow cheapens their achievement? To be honest I cant see any validity in that line of reasoning (and I was a fairly hardcore raider in various games so I have some experience "on the inside"). Especially in this game where you cant even see someones raid gear. For the developer the benefits of using the same content for both solo and raid players is obvious.

 

[KePoW]

Are you serious with this? They would play the raid because they enjoy it. If I'm doing something I don't enjoy to get better gear that isn't needed anywhere else in the game I'm wasting my fucking time.

You can't even look at someone and see that they have gotten raid gear, like in those games. You would need to inspect them, which who ever does to randos in hubs?

This literally doesn't affect people that actually want to do the raid for fun.

I don't buy that line of thinking, because that's not human nature.

I guarantee you if they make the same exact raid loot acquireable from soloing (and easier/faster to get), then the vast majority of players will go that route.

Most people are not going to raid in the above scenario. Most people want to get good loot in the easiest way possible.

 

[shadowstar]

If theyve brought back some alt reality Jean they might as well bring back the old one because thats the "But I didnt inhale!" of character resurrections. Unfairly perhaps, I consider Jean to be emblematic of everthing wrong with american comics published by the big two and how they handle their universes.

I don't think about it too hard. I just like Jean and wish she never went away.

 

[KePoW]

The only reason I can see for it is that raids are generally harder (often due more to "logistics" than anything else) so people that raid feel (rightly or wrongly) that raid gear is a visual sign of prestige and that people getting the same gear solo somehow cheapens their achievement? To be honest I cant see any validity in that line of reasoning (and I was a fairly hardcore raider in various games so I have some experience "on the inside").

Ok let's just take the easiest and biggest example, WoW.

Are you saying that Raid-Finder loot quality should be the exact same as real raids?

If your opinion is yes, then I guess we don't have anything else to discuss. Because I would never agree with that philosophy.

But if I'm somehow misunderstanding you, then I'm open to hearing.

 

[Dec]

I don't buy that line of thinking, because that's not human nature.

I guarantee you if they make the same exact raid loot acquireable from soloing (and easier/faster to get), then the vast majority of players will go that route.

Most people are not going to raid in the above scenario. Most people want to get good loot in the easiest way possible.

The majority of players were never going to finish the raid, or try it more than once or twice.

Now those people don't have to settle for less because they don't want to raid and the people that want to raid, get to raid.

Win win.

Edit: And please. This is not WoW. I don't care what systems WoW has or how they reward loot. That's not this game and every game does not need to do everything the same way WoW did it.

 

[Uthred]

Ok let's just take the easiest and biggest example, WoW.

Are you saying that Raid-Finder loot quality should be the exact same as real raids?

If your opinion is yes, then I guess we don't have anything else to discuss. Because I would never agree with that philosophy.

But if I'm somehow misunderstanding you, then I'm open to hearing.

Well for a start this game isnt WoW there are some major difference, the main one being that you cant see any raid gear so theres genuinely no reason to differentiate it from other gear. But yes I do think that Raid-finder loot should be exactly the same quality as "real" raids and I think differentiating it was Blizzard taking a step back. Why does it matter if its easier? But apparently as you say we're on completely opposite sides so well just have to agree to disagree.

 

[J-Tier]

If the reward is equivalent in value, all I care about is that the effort in obtaining the reward should be fairly equivalent too. So if the solo raids are easier, then the raid loot, IMO should be significantly more uncommon, while the more difficult standard raid should be more common when it comes to loot.

 

[Dec]

If the reward is equivalent in value, all I care about is that the effort in obtaining the reward should be fairly equivalent too. So if the solo raids are easier, then the raid loot, IMO should be significantly more uncommon, while the more difficult standard raid should be more common when it comes to loot.

Absolutely.

 

[KePoW]

But yes I do think that Raid-finder loot should be exactly the same quality as "real" raids and I think differentiating it was Blizzard taking a step back. Why does it matter if its easier? But apparently as you say we're on completely opposite sides so well just have to agree to disagree.

Ok got it, that's the reason I wanted to use the WoW example. Not to directly compare to MH, but as a philosophical talking point so I know what you guys are thinking.

Now we know to stop the discussion because of a major inherent difference of opinion. I believe players who accomplish something harder in a game should be rewarded more.

(also another side reason for me is that it forces players to group up more, I just don't like online games where everything is done solo)

 

[KePoW]

If the reward is equivalent in value, all I care about is that the effort in obtaining the reward should be fairly equivalent too. So if the solo raids are easier, then the raid loot, IMO should be significantly more uncommon, while the more difficult standard raid should be more common when it comes to loot.

That's the absolute minimum they should do, otherwise few people will raid.

 

[Dec]

Ok got it, that's the reason I wanted to use the WoW example. Not to directly compare to MH, but as a philosophical talking point so I know what you guys are thinking.

Now we know to stop the discussion because of a major inherent difference of opinion. I believe players who accomplish something harder in a game should be rewarded more.

(also another side reason for me is that it forces players to group up more, I just don't like online games where everything is done solo)

A solo terminal can absolutely be as hard as a raid.

 

[KePoW]

A solo terminal can absolutely be as hard as a raid.

Depends on the character of course, but also MH raids are completely beta right now so none of us have an idea of final official tuning.

We will have to see.

 

[Dec]

Depends on the character of course, but also MH raids are completely beta right now so none of us have an idea of final official tuning.

We will have to see.

Doesn't matter. No matter the difficulty a solo experience and be as challenging to an individual player as a raid.

 

[KePoW]

Doesn't matter. No matter the difficulty a solo experience and be as challenging to an individual player as a raid.

Not sure what you mean by this. Doesn't it depend on the developers' balance and design

 

[Sblargh]

I'll go into the anti-raid team here. If the majority of people choose not-raid over raid, it means they like to not-raid instead of raid. Why should they raid?

Raiding to me should be quality time with friends having fun on the mic while killing mobs. Here is where every single MMO I have played sucks: you get to the end, you have nothing else to do but find a group of people to do stuff. Sometimes you find a guild, sometimes you don't. Whatever it is, it ends like this:

"OMGZ YOU N00B KNOW YOUR ROLE WTF THIS IS EASY THIS IS SO EASY AND YOU'RE MESSING UP I DON'T BELIEVE YOU"

If I'm playing with friends and we all have the afternoon off and we all know each other to the point that nobody will get furious while playing the game, raiding is one of the best things a game can offer.
If I *have* to do it or otherwise be locked out of content, then it goes from being one of the best things in gaming to one of the worst things in gaming.

 

[Dec]

Not sure what you mean by this. Doesn't it depend on the developers' balance and design

Sure?

I said it can be. A lot of these raid mechanics could be transferred to a solo experience and not be much different.

Even a two or three man dungeon would work perfectly using the exact mechanics and the only thing that would need to be changed is how much health stuff has and minor number scaling for the amount of players there (like the stack on one player to divide damage thing).

As I said, I'm not adverse to challenging content, I don't want to raid. There's a difference.

 

[KePoW]

Sure?

I said it can be. A lot of these raid mechanics could be transferred to a solo experience and not be much different.

Even a two or three man dungeon would work perfectly using the exact mechanics and the only thing that would need to be changed is how much health stuff has and minor number scaling for the amount of players there (like the stack on one player to divide damage thing).

As I said, I'm not adverse to challenging content, I don't want to raid. There's a difference.

Oh ok you mean potentially. I thought you meant the current state of MH

 

[Volimar]

I'd love to group up and try the raid just to feel it out. No pressure and no blaming people if/when it all goes to shit.

 

[Lord Phol]

I'd love to group up and try the raid just to feel it out. No pressure and no blaming people if/when it all goes to shit.

That's how it should be! I'm not a hardcore gamer by any means, but I still think the idea of plowing through a bunch of big bad bosses with some friends (we are all friends here <3) sounds like a fun thing to do. I'd like to do it at least once just see what the zone has to offer, so if we got a group going I'd be up for it!

 

[Indignate]

Been ES farming with the potion for the past couple of days. Gone though an hour of it and have gathered up 100 ES's.

If the rate keeps up, that's 300 for 125G.

I don't think this is at all worth it, mainly because I'm not playing the game. Maybe if you want to get a 200 splinter hero, sure, but I'm only tolerating the "logging in, getting ES, logging out" method because I have a lot of other stuff to play right now (thanks to the Steam sale). It just plain isn't fun to do that, which is why it's taken me a couple days to just get through one hour of the boost.

 

[Ragnaroz]

Been ES farming with the potion for the past couple of days. Gone though an hour of it and have gathered up 100 ES's.

If the rate keeps up, that's 300 for 125G.

I don't think this is at all worth it, mainly because I'm not playing the game. Maybe if you want to get a 200 splinter hero, sure, but I'm only tolerating the "logging in, getting ES, logging out" method because I have a lot of other stuff to play right now (thanks to the Steam sale). It just plain isn't fun to do that, which is why it's taken me a couple days to just get through one hour of the boost.

You can get much more than that. I got like 500. You probably need to be a bit more effective. For example, Lower Asgard is much better than MM for a quick splinter, and you always want to have as much SIF as possible during those 3h. Aim for at least 200%, but I even had 435% in my last hour and that's when I got the most splinters.

 

[Dec]

This week's patch is coming in a couple of days. Exact time is TBD.

It will include:

Storm's Level 52 Review

Beta Ray Bill Team-Up

The next encounter in the raid (and polish / tuning for existing encounters)

All the bug fixes we could find and address since last patch.

A little "End of Anniversary Month" event that we're hosting to celebrate how much we enjoy the game and everyone involved with it.

The update to the cake news post says the next patch is the 26th but obviously not set in stone.

More:

Mr. Fantastic maybe to test next week.

Event for the World Cup next week.

Omega points reset next patch.

 

[Sblargh]

Omega point reset means reworked tree?

 

[Anoregon]

Omega point reset means reworked tree?

Not necessarily, they just consider it still in beta so are doing periodic resets. I'm sure there will be a few tweaks though.

 

[KePoW]

haha wtf, World Cup event?

 

[Drayco21]

haha wtf, World Cup event?

Nothing says comic books quite like sports. I would say, I guess this means they'll do an event for literally every occasion possible, but they already did Australia Day. Hope there's some stupid bullshit soccer minigame in this.

 

[KePoW]

Nothing says comic books quite like sports. I would say, I guess this means they'll do an event for literally every occasion possible, but they already did Australia Day. Hope there's some stupid bullshit soccer minigame in this.

Haha very true, the Australia Day thing was really stupid. Not because I have anything against Australians, but it's a completely random event to put in a game.

I bet even most Australian-developed games don't even do an event for it, lol

 

[Affeinvasion]

I bet Sunspot is a special vendor or something for the World Cup event.

 

[SixMachine]

Since you guys mentioned raiding, I think I eventually might give it a try even though I have a long ways to go on gearing. I only have 2 blessings on (both Hela) and my Excalibur is close to level 4 on Psylocke. My Psylocke feels okay on survivability it's just that it feels rather binary if I die, like if something one shots me (Only have 12k defense with kung fu artifact but I have over 18k health). But for most stuff she seems to gain life back really fast with so many ongoing dots and easy way to disengage with her projection. I do okay in holo-sim getting close to 20 waves until I accidently die to something that pretty much insta gibs me. My ign is PhoFob if you guys still have room in the SG and are willing to invite me.

 

[Nokagi]

Only 99 dollars! Act now!

 

[Dec]

Since you guys mentioned raiding, I think I eventually might give it a try even though I have a long ways to go on gearing. I only have 2 blessings on (both Hela) and my Excalibur is close to level 4 on Psylocke. My Psylocke feels okay on survivability it's just that it feels rather binary if I die, like if something one shots me (Only have 12k defense with kung fu artifact but I have over 18k health). But for most stuff she seems to gain life back really fast with so many ongoing dots and easy way to disengage with her projection. I do okay in holo-sim getting close to 20 waves until I accidently die to something that pretty much insta gibs me. My ign is PhoFob if you guys still have room in the SG and are willing to invite me.

Be on in 5 and can invite you if no one has by then.

Only 99 dollars! Act now!

The red will look way better hopefully.

 

[Lord Phol]

That's a pretty neat costume (not too fond of the red variant), though I still prefer his Marvel Now and I rarely play him even though I got his premium pack . Great pack and some nice costumes. Would definetly be using the black foundation costumes if I had any interest in Reed or Sue.

Ryolnir said they are uploading the Storm 52 review and Beta Ray Team-Up patch on the TC and it says it's online, but I can't login D:.

 

[Frostinferno]

I actually like the idea of white Iron Man costumes. One of the biggest reasons I used the Gemini one for so long.

Those Black FF costumes though. Hnnnngggggg

Where's the picture of Spidey's though? That's the one I want most.

 

[Drayco21]

I didn't think that armor could get dumber looking. Turns out, white and a $100 price tag can prove me wrong.

 

[Frostinferno]

I didn't think that armor could get dumber looking. Turns out, white and a $100 price tag can prove me wrong.

Not a Power Ranger fan?

 

[Drayco21]

Not a Power Ranger fan?

He was better when he was Green.

Spoiler

I barely remember what I'm talking about.

 

[Rhaknar]

oh Gaz...exclusive costumes (that probably wont be in the store) in $100 bundles with heroes that most people already have.

Defend that shit, I dare you. Man I love this game, but lately, good lord...

 

[Red Arremer]

oh Gaz...exclusive costumes (that probably wont be in the store) in $100 bundles with heroes that most people already have.

Defend that shit, I dare you. Man I love this game, but lately, good lord...

Yeah I'm fucking hating this bullshit. Exclusive items in this pack is essentially punishing EVERYBODY who bought the advance pack. I sent in a support ticket, see if I can get it at a reduced price at least, but this is just dumb.

The fair thing would be to give the exclusive items to the AP owners retroactively.

 

[Frostinferno]

oh Gaz...exclusive costumes (that probably wont be in the store) in $100 bundles with heroes that most people already have.

Defend that shit, I dare you. Man I love this game, but lately, good lord...

"People complained that they couldn't outright buy costumes that were in fortune cards, so we made a bundle of future FC costumes so that people wouldn't have to rely on chance for them. See, we listened to your feedback!"

 

[Lord Phol]

oh Gaz...exclusive costumes (that probably wont be in the store) in $100 bundles with heroes that most people already have.

Defend that shit, I dare you. Man I love this game, but lately, good lord...

Sure:

• The pack is aimed towards new Mac players and it's great deal for them overall.
• It's a recolor of a costume you'll see in the store later.
• It's only one costume among like 20 for that hero (with more to come).
• It might very well become obtainable through other means later on.

Of course having it not be an exclusive or only timed would be the better option, but it's of no real concern to me either way. Only exclusive costume I consider a loss for both Gaz and fans IMO is the Symbiote Spiderman, especially since it's one of few Enhanced Costumes with new graphics (which I think every Enchanced Costume should have).

 

[inky]

Meh, I told you AGES AGO this is where it was going and a lot of people brushed my comments aside.

Now you see. Now you see...

Edit: Heck, remember that stream where they were asking questions and giving away stuff. I won a pack by asking a question: Will there be FC exclusive Team Ups in the future? Answer on stream = NO. Mhhmm

 

[Red Arremer]

Sure:

• The pack is aimed towards new Mac players and it's great deal for them overall.
• It's a recolor of a costume you'll see in the store later.
• It's only one costume among like 20 for that hero (with more to come).
• It might very well become obtainable through other means later on.

Of course having it not be an exclusive or only timed would be the better option, but it's of no real concern to me either way. Only exclusive costume I consider a loss for both Gaz and fans IMO is the Symbiote Spiderman, especially since it's one of few Enhanced Costumes with new graphics (which I think every Enchanced Costume should have).

If it's exclusive, it means it's exclusive. The costume is also the smaller worry I have, I'm significantly more pissed off about the exclusive team-up hero. As if putting one into a fortune card wasn't already bad enough.

 

[KePoW]

oh Gaz...exclusive costumes (that probably wont be in the store) in $100 bundles with heroes that most people already have.

Defend that shit, I dare you. Man I love this game, but lately, good lord...

No defending this.

This is the only thing I hate about the game, exclusive costumes. That's baloney.

(I am very bitter about not having the black Captain America costume, and Symbiote Spider-Man)

 

[Red Arremer]

I don't think exclusive costumes are that bad, because they are only aesthetic options. Skins are whatever to me. I don't even care about the Iron Man armor (although it looks neat).

However, locking away gameplay options (team-up heroes) behind a paywall is just fucking dumb.

 

[Sblargh]

Gotta pay them bills.

 

[Lord Phol]

Exclusive eye-candy has been in the game since launch, and it's still just visual stuff and very rare to see. I hardly believe most of you guys would use that costume even if it wasn't exclusive, but everyone has their pet peeves I guess.

I find their lack of a good engineering/bug-fixing team alot more annoying. Lots of promises and teasing with minimal delivering, there's always something that goes wrong. Not to mention the heaps of heroes with bugs and messed up powers that could be fixed easily if only Gaz would prioritize a bit better.

 

[Drayco21]

If it's exclusive, it means it's exclusive. The costume is also the smaller worry I have, I'm significantly more pissed off about the exclusive team-up hero. As if putting one into a fortune card wasn't already bad enough.

Isn't the team-up hero just Future Foundation Doctor Doom? That would imply regular Doctor Doom is going to be released later, and it's just a white Doom in the pack.