Support NeoGAF

[DeathyBoy]

"Rich playboy/girl who is secretly a ninja/superhero" doesn't do anything for me unless you add a modifier to it. Bruce Wayne's is his parents' death and the torment he puts himself through for it. Tony Stark's is alcoholism and a god complex. Elektra didn't really have anything like that at first, so I was waiting for some more development, but then when that development came, it was that vaguely evil destiny silliness. Didn't work for me at all.

Yeah, the whole 'these people are going to take you in' thing is kinda ludicrous. In the comics she becomes an assassin to avenge her father; in the TV show she's always been evil, which is weird. Like why'd she go to college and then immediately become a criminal?

It's the problem with her origin being in Daredevil, but them having a loose goal of her having her own show - so much stuff is skipped over because they want to step on her toes. Most of her important backstory hasn't even been told yet.

 

[Mangoverboard]

Just finished it, enjoyed it a lot but the early episodes were definitely the best. Punisher the standout by far.

Feel like theyve really left too much hanging on the mystical side. Hope Iron Fist clears most of it up

 

[LordRaptor]

He was tracking drops of blood in the tunnels and sensed where paper and books were in the vault. He definitely has enhanced smell

Matt has super smell too. The problem is that when he lost his hearing he freaked out because smell wasn't going to help him navigate his room or give him spacial awareness.

I'll just chalk it up to being super inconsistent about what he can and can't do and how he does it then

 

[Inquisitive_Ghost]

No, seriously, what is the deal with the hole?

Also, Im sure its probably been discussed but what was the deal with the giant hole? They never say what its for or has any relevance outside of the end of one episode and the very beginning of the next.

The answer, courtesy of my sister after watching episode 7:

"The yakuza are trying to get to China via the most direct route. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it."

I think it's a sound hypothesis.

 

[Mangoverboard]

Was the blonde soldier guy with the burned face supposed to be a nod to jigsaw? I know we only see him incredibly briefly but he made me think of him.

 

[BLOODED_hands]

I hate the word nerfed, but MCU DD is underpowered compared to the comic-book one. So's Elektra. In a one on one fight in the comics, DD would fuck Punisher up with ease. But The Hand is also underpowered. I guess they're going for pseudo-realism of sorts.

I figured as much. Did you read my earlier post regarding the Hand? They are underpowered, correct, but how powerful are they in the comics? Is what my brother saying accurate?

I don't know much about Elektra's origin story but I do feel that her origin story here is.... Rushed or unfinished, I think.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I figured as much. Did you read my earlier post regarding the Hand? They are underpowered, correct, but how powerful are they in the comics? Is what my brother saying accurate?

I don't know much about Elektra's origin story but I do feel that her origin story here is.... Rushed or unfinished, I think.

In theory, The Hand in the comics are super powerful and up there fighting wise. Doesn't always happen that way though. It's the Wolverine theorem - in theory, Wolverine with all his training should win most fights, but they have him lose a lot because he has a healing factor. Anytime they want to make a new villain look badass, he fucks Wolverine up. The Hand tends to be the same.

 

[CaptainofIndustry]

I just got to talk to Royce Johnson, he plays Detective Brett Mahoney on the show. He is friends with my coworker and she called him. Super nice guy. He was really happy that I enjoyed the show.

 

[Mangoverboard]

Brett getting the promotion was one of the best bits in the season

 

[Lan Dong Mik]

An absolutely amazing season. Very few complaints. Punisher stole every scene he was in. Can not wait for his own show.

Question about the scene where he kills Blacksmith. Is that Blacksmith's shed? It almost seemed like they just randomly stumbled upon it. Then Punisher finds the weapons stash and the vest which eventually becomes he's iconic Punisher skull armor. I assume it had to be Blacksmiths but they had driven down the road quite a ways from what I remember, so I'm not positive.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

An absolutely amazing season. Very few complaints. Punisher stole every scene he was in. Can not wait for his own show.

Question about the scene where he kills Blacksmith. Is that Blacksmith's shed? It almost seemed like they just randomly stumbled upon it. Then Punisher finds the weapons stash and the vest which eventually becomes he's iconic Punisher skull armor. I assume it had to be Blacksmiths but they had driven down the road quite a ways from what I remember, so I'm not positive.

Yes.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I just got to talk to Royce Johnson, he plays Detective Brett Mahoney on the show. He is friends with my coworker and she called him. Super nice guy. He was really happy that I enjoyed the show.

Mahoney's legacy promotion succeeded where Karen's didn't. Rock solid character.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

"If we make it out of fighting a army of ninjas,i will marry you" = someone will die.

Yeah, you know someone is going to die when the hero makes them a promise in the middle of a series. I was like "really? you're going to make one of the most basic of giveaways? okay then."

 

[BLOODED_hands]

In theory, The Hand in the comics are super powerful and up there fighting wise. Doesn't always happen that way though. It's the Wolverine theorem - in theory, Wolverine with all his training should win most fights, but they have him lose a lot because he has a healing factor. Anytime they want to make a new villain look badass, he fucks Wolverine up. The Hand tends to be the same.

Ahh, gotcha. Makes me question why they made DD fight the hand if they are so powerful but going by what you said I can see it now.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Yeah, you know someone is going to die when the hero makes them a promise in the middle of a series. I was like "really? you're going to make one of the most basic of giveaways? okay then."

And even worse, she lost to S2 Nobu. S1 Nobu, sure. Dude was a boss. S2 Nobu was a fucking clown.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

And even worse, she lost to S2 Nobu. S1 Nobu, sure. Dude was a boss. S2 Nobu was a fucking clown.

she didnt lose to Nobu, it was more of a sacrifice.

 

[Zeliard]

I can't get over how cringe-worthy bad the guy who plays Fisk's acting is. It was much better than S1 in S2, but it's still the absolute weakest thing in the entire show. Hardly a proper or relevant sample, yet all of my British friends feel the same about Fisk, whereas my American friends love him - I can't account for why the difference though :/

But otherwise, a bloody great series - much better pacing than S1 and JJS1 - I just hope to god we get an S3 next year.

The criticism I've heard (and personally completely disagree with) from those who don't like D'Onofrio as Fisk tends to come down to his dialogue delivery. They don't like his sort of choked, gutteral line delivery.

I personally find him terrific in the role, but then I've long been a big fan of the actor. His transitions from quiet and shy to enraged and animalistic are jarring but I think purposefully so, and he's always a hell of a presence even with limited screentime, as this season showed.

 

[DeathyBoy]

The criticism I've heard (and personally completely disagree with) from those who don't like D'Onofrio as Fisk tends to come down to his dialogue delivery. They don't like his sort of choked, gutteral line delivery.

I personally find him terrific in the role, but then I've long been a big fan of the actor. His transitions from quiet and shy to enraged and animalistic are jarring but I think purposefully so, and he's always a hell of a presence even with limited screentime, as this season showed.

This.

If the actor wanted to play the character as a generic villain, he'd nail it. The fact he's throwing in these unique tics, this fascinatingly odd delivery, and the clear cut signs that Wilson's a thug with delusions of eloquence always have me laughing/cringing when he's on screen. As good as MCD was in the film, and he was baller as fuck, this Fisk is up there with the 90s animated one in my book as the best version of the character.

If they gave him a flying car like he had in that cartoon, he'd be the best supervillain of all time. But alas.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Can one of you what the reason was Karen confronted Franks old Colonel? Totally forget what happened before he went and threatend her

 

[Mangoverboard]

Can one of you what the reason was Karen confronted Franks old Colonel? Totally forget what happened before he went and threatend her

She was changing her article to a profile on Frank and he was the only person she knew who had known him so went to talk to him. While there she noticed the blonde guy in photos with the colonel and Frank was one of the dead bodies from the boat explosion.

Who I personally think was a nod to jigsaw

 

[DeathyBoy]

Can one of you what the reason was Karen confronted Franks old Colonel? Totally forget what happened before he went and threatend her

She wanted to get him to supply quotes for her article on Frank. And then she went all journalist on him. While he rolled his eyes at how long she stared at photographs in an obvious way.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

She was changing her article to a profile on Frank and he was the only person she knew who had known him so went to talk to him. While there she noticed the blonde guy in photos with the colonel and Frank was one of the dead bodies from the boat explosion.

Who I personally think was a nod to jigsaw

Ah, makes sense. He said something in the Line of its nice to see you again, Frank. Thanks.

 

[Harmen]

I had a blast! I can't see myself enjoying any other superhero film or show more this year. Sure, there are some legit complaints regarding the story and cinematography, and they will weight more for others, but I feel this season had great overall variety and a fantastic supporting cast.

Punisher and kingpin were handled extremely well, I really liked the dynamics between Elektra and Matt, and felt Foggy and Karen were way better this time around. In fact, some Foggy moments were highlights for me. Sure, he is a bit of an oddball but I think the actor fits well and the acting was good (unlike others are saying). I also didn't mind the overall story had several clearly separate threads and changed in tone quite some times, I actually applaud how well the show handled this, it felt like several smaller arcs building up. I can see the "mistakes" in the action and the slight stiffness of Matts suit, but thought there were plenty of badass scenes and moves.

Marvel series (including ABC) have taken the spotlight for me over the MCU films for sure.

Also, not going to happen and not Marvel, but watching this I really wish there was a Batman series like this (with higher production values). Is Gotham any good? Haven't watched that yet.

 

[AoM]

Last three episodes were pretty meh.

 

[WesternHeretic]

I had a blast! I can't see myself enjoying any other superhero film or show more this year. Sure, there are some legit complaints regarding the story and cinematography, and they will weight more for others, but I feel this season had great overall variety and a fantastic supporting cast.

Punisher and kingpin were handled extremely well, I really liked the dynamics between Elektra and Matt, and felt Foggy and Karen were way better this time around. In fact, some Foggy moments were highlights for me. Sure, he is a bit of an oddball but I think the actor fits well and the acting was good (unlike others are saying). I also didn't mind the overall story had several clearly separate threads and changed in tone quite some times, I actually applaud how well the show handled this, it felt like several smaller arcs building up. I can see the "mistakes" in the action and the slight stiffness of Matts suit, but thought there were plenty of badass scenes and moves.

Marvel series (including ABC) have taken the spotlight for me over the MCU films for sure.

Also, not going to happen and not Marvel, but watching this I really wish there was a Batman series like this (with higher production values). Is Gotham any good? Haven't watched that yet.

Gotham starts off slow but is great right now. Much better than AoS. Not that AoS is bad but Gotham is on another level right now.

 

[jokingbird]

He was tracking drops of blood in the tunnels and sensed where paper and books were in the vault. He definitely has enhanced smell

I was thinking it was still hearing based. The blood drops being thicker than water were easier to differentiate and the sound bouncing off of the objects helped him to tell the density of what was inside the cabinets/containers (train yard).

I want a scene like the squirrel girl baby sitting panel where he comments on squirrel musk and baby smell to confirm.

 

[Anung]

The thing with The Hand being invisible to Matt (and his temporary deafness freak out) tells me that DD in the MCU 'only' has super hearing, not super other senses.
That or they're waiting for him to level up later with super smell or whatever.

In the first season they show his sonar sense, he can smell what Foggy ate for lunch and he can taste the copper when Claire stitches reopened. For some reason they leaned totally on the super hearing in the second season.

 

[Red]

I appreciated D'Onofrio more this season. My complaint last season wasn't his delivery, it was more that I couldn't buy him as this head of a criminal empire, because he acted like a child 80% of the time. It was as if he was playing pretend, he was doing his best child's impression of a mob boss but was not convincing. I understand the thematic importance of that, especially last season (which was just as much Kingpin's story as it was Matt's), but I had trouble accepting that this straight-up mood-swingin' weirdo was an evil mastermind running New York City. Especially since when the story begins he is already in a position of power. It might be different if we saw him start as nothing and work his way up.

 

[UrbanRats]

I appreciated D'Onofrio more this season. My complaint last season wasn't his delivery, it was more that I couldn't buy him as this head of a criminal empire, because he acted like a child 80% of the time. It was as if he was playing pretend, he was doing his best child's impression of a mob boss but was not convincing. I understand the thematic importance of that, especially last season (which was just as much Kingpin's story as it was Matt's), but I had trouble accepting that this straight-up mood-swingin' weirdo was an evil mastermind running New York City. Especially since when the story begins he is already in a position of power. It might be different if we saw him start as nothing and work his way up.

His childlike attitude is what's so fun about him.
Even when he fights, for example when he pummels the Punisher, it's like a big enraged kid swinging.
I think it gives the character an edge over just being a big bad guy.

 

[NullPointer]

I think my favorite moment with the Kingpin was how quickly and calmly he went from enraged psycho slamming Matt Murdoch's head into the table* and screaming death threats to quietly and contentedly easing back into his chair and speaking softly.

Pitch perfect shift.

* How tough are Matt's glasses? God damn.

 

[Kadayi]

Started off really good, but didn't quite manage to pull it off in the end. The whole fighting ninjas thing got drawn out way too long and the end battle didn't make a whole heap of sense, firstly with The Punisher inexplicably turning and and secondly because all the police who turned up on the scene did absolutely nothing to intervene. Did SWAT have the night off or something? Or are they in fact the ninjas?

 

[number11]

Am I the only one who didn't love the stairwell fight? It just seemed like they were trying way too hard to top the hallway scene. And those obvious cuts to make it seem like a one take shot were pretty distracting.

 

[fallengorn]

* How tough are Matt's glasses? God damn.

That reminds me, Matt should ask Melvin to move the horns on his mask. Dude gets headbutted. A lot.

 

[HardRojo]

Punisher Season 1 was good, just finished the whole thing, but I think I enjoyed DD's first season better.

 

[UrbanRats]

That reminds me, Matt should ask Melvin to move the horns on his mask. Dude gets headbutted. A lot.

That thing deflects bullets, headbutts should feel like caresses.

 

[Zeliard]

I appreciated D'Onofrio more this season. My complaint last season wasn't his delivery, it was more that I couldn't buy him as this head of a criminal empire, because he acted like a child 80% of the time. It was as if he was playing pretend, he was doing his best child's impression of a mob boss but was not convincing. I understand the thematic importance of that, especially last season (which was just as much Kingpin's story as it was Matt's), but I had trouble accepting that this straight-up mood-swingin' weirdo was an evil mastermind running New York City. Especially since when the story begins he is already in a position of power. It might be different if we saw him start as nothing and work his way up.

Fisk is childlike in many ways but also very physically imposing and prone to violent, unpredictable outbursts. That sense of menace kept his "partners" and immediate underlings in check in season 1 (until it didn't), and everybody else was kept in the dark. We've also seen enough to know he isn't just a mindless brute.

I also chalked up some of his awkward or immature tendencies in social situations to his solitary nature; it's implied that before he met Vanessa he was effectively a complete shut-in, outside of whatever friendship he had with Wesley.

 

[DeathyBoy]

That reminds me, Matt should ask Melvin to move the horns on his mask. Dude gets headbutted. A lot.

Betsy wouldn't be happy with that.

 

[number47]

Am I the only one who didn't love the stairwell fight? It just seemed like they were trying way too hard to top the hallway scene. And those obvious cuts to make it seem like a one take shot were pretty distracting.

You really didn't enjoy dd with the chain? the constant shattering of the lights? I felt left a good fit.

 

[Red]

His childlike attitude is what's so fun about him.
Even when he fights, for example when he pummels the Punisher, it's like a big enraged kid swinging.
I think it gives the character an edge over just being a big bad guy.

I don't have a problem with any of that. I have a problem with that kind of a character somehow assembling a criminal empire.

 

[DeathyBoy]

I don't have a problem with any of that. I have a problem with that kind of a character somehow assembling a criminal empire.

Well, we live in a world with Donald Trump having a serious shot at being President...

 

[Red]

Well, we live in a world with Donald Trump having a serious shot at being President...

You know, that's a damn good point.

 

[raphier]

In the first season they show his sonar sense, he can smell what Foggy ate for lunch and he can taste the copper when Claire stitches reopened. For some reason they leaned totally on the super hearing in the second season.

His "Sonar" or spatial information is connected to audio-visual sensory where visual stimuli is recorded via auditory input. If he can't hear then he can't see. T. Olfactory stimulation is not connected to his seeing, but heightened sensing, like dogs can see where things have been. I think that's why they mostly concentrated on the hearing. I do recall him following a scent in the tunnels though. I do recall him use scent inthe sewers a lot.

 

[PayOffWizard]

That Luke Cage after credits teaser was fun, although the generic rap was a bit on the nose.

 

[TheOddOne]

That Luke Cage after credits teaser was fun, although the generic rap was a bit on the nose.

Generic rap?

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I appreciated D'Onofrio more this season. My complaint last season wasn't his delivery, it was more that I couldn't buy him as this head of a criminal empire, because he acted like a child 80% of the time. It was as if he was playing pretend, he was doing his best child's impression of a mob boss but was not convincing. I understand the thematic importance of that, especially last season (which was just as much Kingpin's story as it was Matt's), but I had trouble accepting that this straight-up mood-swingin' weirdo was an evil mastermind running New York City. Especially since when the story begins he is already in a position of power. It might be different if we saw him start as nothing and work his way up.

It was his origin story. So yeah, we saw him as the awkward fat kid his Dad abused for a while. S2 he was full on Kingpin though. That scene with Matt is just terrifying.

"YES, the son of a BOXER!"

LOVE D'Onofrio's Kingpin, and hope either movie or Netflix he's around for a long time. Definitely deserves a cameo in the Spidey movie.

 

[TheSadRanger]

I'm wondering if Kingpin is going to somehow blackmail Jessica Jones into following Murdock around or find out who Daredevil is. Maybe he kidnaps It's Patsy!! to get her to do his dirty work.

With Atlas Investigations right across from Nelson & Murdock now surely their paths will cross.

I'm guessing Jessica Jones moved her office after the end of S1?

It did bother me though that Matt didn't warn Foggy at all about Fisk wanting to kill him when he visited him in prison....

 

[Pie and Beans]

Good luck trying to make Foggy redeem himself or something next season unless its through death, writers.

What a drag his character remained for the entire second half of the season all while his actors acting hadn't improved at all since S1 and remained the lowlight.

Wonder how they'll tackle the Matt Murdock: Lawyer side of things next season early on now really.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Wonder how they'll tackle the Matt Murdock: Lawyer side of things next season early on now really.

When they would place the next Season after Defenders, they could easily avoid this through adopting Born Again.
Make Karen a extrem addict in Defender who tells a returned Kingpin Matts Secret -> Boom.

 

[DrGonzo615]

Dunno what season 3 has in store....but it bet its a few more slow mo shots of Murdock/Daredevil spitting globs of blood out on a floor while he slowly gets up.

 

[TheSadRanger]

Good luck trying to make Foggy redeem himself or something next season unless its through death, writers.

What a drag his character remained for the entire second half of the season all while the actors acting hadn't improved at all since S1.

Wonder how they'll tackle the Matt Murdock: Lawyer side of things next season early on now really.

I'm guessing Matt will do law solo while Foggy is doing something on Jessica Jones or Defenders probably since he's working with that new law firm that Carrie Ann-Moss runs.

Speaking of which, do I need to put spoiler tags up for Jessica Jones stuff since the two shows kind of mix with each other now?