Absinthe (Permed)
Banned
Backlash has already started. Whatever makes you feel better.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Metal Gear Solid 4 |OT| No Place to Hide, No Time for a Legend to FoxDie
- Thread starter BruceLeeRoy
- Start date
- Status
biggkidd32
Member
I wouldn't call it backlash. It's just Truant's opinion. People can have different opinions of a game, right?
I can't get this game out of my mind. Been working all day but in glimpses I remember that I will have time to play more later this week and it warms. Started a second play through yesterday and it's even more enjoyable. Totally confident in all my gameplay decisions and I'm fine combing all the areas. Lots of areas I haven't even discovered before and I see the game structure in a new context. Eventually I plan to do a third run where I will catch up to some secrets via guides..etc. I love you MGS4.
Orlics said:
Production values for what, specifically? The cutscenes, which aren't an integral part of gameplay?
Audio, I will agree with you.
I think if you want to look at games that truly raised the production value level of games this gen, look at something like CoD4, GTA4, Mass Effect, or Gears. They managed to immerse the player in total cinematic glory WHILE the gameplay is going down. Some of the MGS4 gameplay was nice, but it rarely hit the levels established by better games this gen.
IMO, and I realize this opinion is not popular here, but cutscenes are really a last generation anachronism where you *couldn't* achieve the level of cinematic immersion in a story without them. Today, with modern gaming engines, there is just no place for 20 minute+ long non-interactive monster cutscenes. So, you can juice up the audio and graphics, but if I'm not playing through the action, it's not much of a game. Again, IMO.
Absinthe (Permed)
Banned
A new bar has been raised for production values. Graphics, sound, voice work, music, etc. are all top notch.
dermannmitdemcolt
Member
Truant said:
You are awesome as well. Cutscenes sucks. What was Kojima thinking!11
Orlics said:
Yes, 1000% true. The game does move production and story telling forward, but it does not bring gameplay forward at all, the gameplay IMO is no different than MGS was back in 1997 and does to a point feel slightly dated. That is not a stab against MGS4, because as a fan of the series it is what I expected and wanted, but there are clearly games released in the last few years that are light years beyond MGS4 in gameplay. Seriously it is the story and cutscenes to propel MGS4 to greatness, without those elements MGS4 would just be an average forgettable action game.
Im halfway through the final act now, and sheesh, what a clusterfuck the whole experience is. I mean, here you have some of the most impressive art design, technical prowess, gameplay, animation, music, sound, and overall polished production values Ive ever seen, all married to a story that plays out like a big, wet, sloppy piece of fan fiction. Ugh. Ill reserve final judgment until I finish it off, naturally, but Im sort of glad that this series is ending, as its going in a downward trend for me. 1 and 2 are both in my top 10 ever, 3 was a major disappointment for me, and 4 is turning out to be a sheep in wolf's clothing.
biggkidd32 said:
Truant's opinion b4 game was release:
"That's true to some extent. While I don't have a PS3 yet, I'm still excited for White Knight, and Little Big Planet. I just don't see what the big deal about MGS4 is. But I'm not here to slam the game or start an argument, I just wanted to say that Kojima did something really cool by making this video."
D2M15 said:
I feel that the audiolog system worked really well, partly because I mostly enjoyed the voice acting, but also because the logs were distributed in such a way that it nearly always fit whatever task you were doing, character you were focusing on, or what part of Rapture you found yourself in. A lot of the audio logs were also recorded as stuff was going on, such as
Suchong getting killed by a Big Daddy
All the characters also represented a certain theme or part of the story, so the potential for a very cluttered presentation was masterfully avoided. This, coupled with the fact that these logs never took you out of the game, proved to be a very compelling way of telling the backstory of Rapture.
Absinthe (Permed)
Banned
It's kind of silly to complain about this game being fan service. Anyone that knows anything about Kojima should have known that this game wasn't going to be anything but fan service. It was expected.
2real4tv said:
I stand by this fully. I never saw the big deal, but I wanted to give it a chance. So much, in fact, that I forked out $800 for a PS3 - Norway is expensive. I don't keep grudges against games, I'm not a system fanboy. If I was, I would never even have bought the game, let alone the expensive PS3. I loved MGS1 and 2, so I feel I'm qualified in stating my opinions about this game. I know you guys just want to label me as a troll or fanboy because it's safe and it's something you can understand, but I really want to like this game, and I gave it a chance. I'm not impressed, and you should just accept it.
I do, however, see the potential of this game, and I want to discuss it, seeing as it's such a big release.
Here's an article for Chris Buffa: Why Gaming Journalism Sucks
Oh wait its written by chris buffa! lawl!
Oh wait its written by chris buffa! lawl!
Why can't some people Just.... *palmFace*
I don't get it man...
MGS4 is beyond any of our expectations, it truly is a rare kind of game. I mean it manages to get better and better and better each and every single act.
I swear, I have never and probably will never play a game THAT good.
Metal Gear Solid 4 = Greatest Game To Date.
I don't get it man...
MGS4 is beyond any of our expectations, it truly is a rare kind of game. I mean it manages to get better and better and better each and every single act.
I swear, I have never and probably will never play a game THAT good.
Metal Gear Solid 4 = Greatest Game To Date.
So sad, people asked for new "next gen" immersion and gameplay but some people just want the same old crap served on a prettier stick.
If you have ADD this game is not for you. I've never played any of the MGS series before and am very happy of the story and will not skip through any cut-scenes as the story isn't that hard to follow, hell grade 7 dropout at home mothers have more complicated shit to watch in afternoon soap operas.
Maybe that's why Bioshock was such a hit, you start with a great story and introduce a couple characters then say nothing more 2 hours in but some guy in a booth somewhere telling you how much he hates you.
If you have ADD this game is not for you. I've never played any of the MGS series before and am very happy of the story and will not skip through any cut-scenes as the story isn't that hard to follow, hell grade 7 dropout at home mothers have more complicated shit to watch in afternoon soap operas.
Maybe that's why Bioshock was such a hit, you start with a great story and introduce a couple characters then say nothing more 2 hours in but some guy in a booth somewhere telling you how much he hates you.
Truant said:
gosh... MGS game have been what they are for more 20 years. it was very story-driven and cutscene-heavy from the beginning. I think many of the MGS fans, just like me, just like it that way. By our standard, it IS good. It is excellent, PERFECT!!
Criticising MGS4 for what it is now is pointless. It's like a dog person complaining others having pet cats since they are not dogs. There are a lot of good games out there that are not designed like MGS. Go play those games. MGS is simply not your taste. At the same time, I and probably a lot of other MGS fans wouldn't have accepted MGS4 if it was designed any other ways.
Y2Kev said:
How does it not? The play mechanics are the exact same as MGS was back in the day, hardly little has changed at all. There are a few elements at play in MGS4 that MGS lack, like the octocam, but even that in reality is just a play on the camo system from Snake Eater. The gameplay in MGS4 is painfully last gen in many many ways, no reactive cover system like many of the newer games, instead you have a clumsy system where you have to hit buttons multiple times to go prone, knell, press next to a way, etc. Clumsy last gen weapon system, where you have to hold now a button to see a targetting reticule, hit another to go into the iron shights that is just amazing in how unintunitive it is, why not just hit up to do that? It features the same exact item and weapons selection commands as MGS, a system unrealistic in the first place. Guess Snake is pulling a wagon behind him to hold all the shit he finds, like a fucking oil can. Say what you want, MGS4 does have a lot of archaic gameplay things at play, does that disrupt how great a game it is, no way because it is still amazing, but let us not kid itself its advancing gaming when its actually going backwards.
dermannmitdemcolt
Member
Sol.. said:
I mean really. Ignoring all the cutscenes, this mind boggling presentation, there is so much to the gameplay, so much variation - really top notch stuff. Critizising this game, because it didn't take the Bioshock/HL2 approach is crazy. This is not what MGS should be and there is room for both philosophies.
The ignorance of some people...
methos75 said:
:lol
This is not even worth an answer.
lunlunqq said:
So now we can't criticize the game because it's a MGS game and it's exactly what we should have expected from a MGS game? That's fucking bullshit. I can't wait until the fanboy/hype goggles come off with this game like it did with GTA 4 and Bioshock so we can actually have an intelligent discussion about the game, rather than get blindly attacked for saying maybe the game deserved a 9 instead of a 10. Jesus.
revolverjgw
Member
Truant said:
It's not a step backwards, it's just a different method storytelling that is not for everyone. You can't tell the type of story told in MGS games with the styles used in Half Life and Bioshock. It's not possible. There's a time and a place for playing as a faceless avatar, and MGS is not it. It would be incredibly boring if every game after Half Life and System Shock followed in their footsteps, lest they ''lower the bar''.
biggkidd32
Member
SailorDaravon said:
Agreed. If you love the game why should someone else's opinions matter. Enjoy the game. But not being able to voice what you believe are faults is retarded. This is the official MGS4 discussion thread, after all.
Captain Glanton
Banned
Anyone? Help?Captain Glanton said:
dermannmitdemcolt said:
When I see that, it just tells me that you cannot issue forth an answer because what I stated is true. I stated why I thought it did not advance gameplay, at least have the good sense to try to rebuke my presepective, other wise just shut up because you cannot.
Captain Glanton
Banned
There was a thread. It was lambasted and locked.CloudNL said:
revolverjgw said:
I never meant to imply that MGS4 should copy the HL/SS/BS philosophy, but rather take notes from it. Imagine how gripping those B&tB backstories would have been if they were interactive, or at least shown in some way or form?
I want forward thinking ways of telling stories. Granted, Bioshock more or less a refined copy of System Shock 2, but I feel the way of storytelling is more true to gaming than cutscenes, so I'm more inclined to forgive that. I still have problems with all my favorite games, but some are more jarring than others. I'm not a game designer, and I know nothing about what it takes to make a game, but I feel that the pieces to a truly gaming-native way of telling a story is out there. What bothers me is that Kojima didn't even try.
revolverjgw
Member
SailorDaravon said:
No, there's not, but there's clearly more rewarding methods. The game lets you do as you please, but it doesn't let you experience everything without working for it. You're not going to win by playing the game like a shooter on Extreme, and that's where the game design is at its best.
SailorDaravon said:
of course you can criticize the game. there are parts of the game that i don't like either. but wanting MGS to become something else is different. i was surprised some of you came into this thread with comments such as "OMG too much cutscene" "LOL not enough gameplay" like you've never played a MGS game. That's just what MGS is. This is the all-important conclusion chapter of the whole series and we don't want it to be GTA or Halo or anything else. The score is just a subjective opinion. To me, this game worthes 10000000/10. What's so intelligent about score discussions?
- Status