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[Vyse The Legend]

so someone explain how

Spoiler

The Patriot's weren't aware of Ocelots true motives in MGS2 for the parts that he WASN'T Liquid. surely Ocelot would have know what his ultimate goal was during all of MGS2.

Maybe they did

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suspect Ocelot was up to something, but through the power of psychotherapy, they were tricked into thinking Liquid had really taken over him and he wasn't Ocelot anymore. Hell, even Eva, who was in on the whole plan, eventually was convinced that Ocelot was gone forever. She died thinking Liquid actually existed.

 

[Teknoman]

Here's another of MGS4's greatest achievements.
The fact that, everytime you die, or get spotted. It is YOUR fault. What I mean is, so many other games always fail you because of a silly bug or a design decision, GTA can come to mind for cover system being a bit clunky for example. Some bits from the story mode on GTA4 did frustrate me because of this, and to me it's a big negative if the game lets you down in that way. Ninja Gaiden 2 for example, you could say it's the camera. I mean i'm giving examples of games I recently got so. Mario Kart is a very good example of this, seriously unbalanced.

With MGS4, it requires a great degree of skill, patience, and being aware of everything around you. I am ofcourse mainly talking about the harder difficulties, because they are also the more realistic. For example, I'm crawling around in act 1, camo index is 85%, two guards infront of me. So I think, wait for them to walk off, continue on.. they walk off 20 metres ahead, I completely ignore this vase next to me, and I knock it without a care in the world... Aleady they run back, see me, and it's my ass.
Just love that attention to detail. Gameplay for me is absolutely flawless. Also, the variety is absolutely brilliant. Beginning of act 3 is a true test of your stealth skills. I think it was deliberate just incase some people thought they could complete the game by simply running and gunning.

Heh im still in act 2, but jeez those FROG unit ladies are insane. I mean I knew they were really acrobatic but damn. After getting slightly spotted by one from her supersonic hearing then taking cover, she called in like 4 others and they all ran by in a single line formation. After the evasion status wore off, a few actually JUMPED back to their positions over really large hills.

After seeing that I was like . However what really got me is that I had the audacity to try and CQC hold one that hadn't left yet from behind just to see what else they dropped. She took out some kinda zipline wire and flipped me over her back and proceeded to choke me :lol

Whats nice is that you can actually hear them land in the other locations when they return to positions.

 

[MiamiWesker]

Maybe they did

Spoiler

suspect Ocelot was up to something, but through the power of psychotherapy, they were tricked into thinking Liquid had really taken over him and he wasn't Ocelot anymore. Hell, even Eva, who was in on the whole plan, eventually was convinced that Ocelot was gone forever. She died thinking Liquid actually existed.

Man

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am I the only one that feels the story made sense when Liquid was the true evil villain trying to take over the world. The debrefing messed it up.

 

[Attack You]

Look up?

So, we're down to three people now:

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Jaeger, Miller, and...Kojima?

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Man

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am I the only one that feels the story made sense when Liquid was the true evil villain trying to take over the world. The debrefing messed it up.

Well, I wouldn't say it makes more sense, but it definitely would have been easier to understand.

 

[krackerjack]

so someone explain how

Spoiler

The Patriot's weren't aware of Ocelots true motives in MGS2 for the parts that he WASN'T Liquid. surely Ocelot would have know what his ultimate goal was during all of MGS2.

I think it has to do with

Spoiler

how snake was telling raiden at the end of mgs2 something about how the patriots couldn't control free will they could only manipulate it....like how raiden didn't want to fight solidus but the patriots manipulated him into doing it with olga's child....i think we were supposed to infer that liquid/revolver ocelot didnt give a damn about anything except what they wanted and acted on their own free will and couldnt be manipulated into doing anything

....haha maybe?

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Was anyone else disappointed that

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Big Boss doesn't finally acknowledge that Ocelot is the Boss's son.

 

[MiamiWesker]

One comment about the credits

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Voice of God: Hideo Kojima. :lol When was this??

 

[CSSer]

nt

 

[Automatisch]

Something that bothers me is how

Spoiler

Vamp seems pretty intent on killing Snake, and following Ocelot's "plan"... Was he even in on the entire thing? Also, had Raiden not stopped the Nomad, wouldn't Snake have been crushed, thus ruining Ocelot's plan to have him destroy the AI?

 

[dalin80]

Can someone just check something for me during the beginning of act 4 as I have gone well past that point now-

Spoiler

when in the MGS1 dream you can pickup the chaff grenades in the middle of the heliport area, do you get to keep those, I though I was out but afterwards I had 2

 

[AmMortal]

One comment about the credits

Spoiler

Voice of God: Hideo Kojima. :lol When was this??

Yeah, when the hell did that happen?

 

[MiamiWesker]

Something that bothers me is how

Spoiler

Vamp seems pretty intent on killing Snake, and following Ocelot's "plan"... Was he even in on the entire thing? Also, had Raiden not stopped the Nomad, wouldn't Snake have been crushed, thus ruining Ocelot's plan to have him destroy the AI?

Its stuff like this that makes the whole

Spoiler

Ocelot is acting thing seem ridiculous. If its Liquid it makes sense, not liquid, doesn't make sense.

 

[TheWolf]

Look up?



He lied? Ocelot has always acted as a

Spoiler

double or triple agent. In MGS2, Ocelot was working FOR the Patriots and Liquid was working AGAINST. Why would they be pissed at Ocelot?

but how can

Spoiler

he lie to AI? isn't he loaded with nanomachines connected to the AI? wouldn't they know his true motives all along?

 

[Datrio]

Maybe they did

Spoiler

suspect Ocelot was up to something, but through the power of psychotherapy, they were tricked into thinking Liquid had really taken over him and he wasn't Ocelot anymore. Hell, even Eva, who was in on the whole plan, eventually was convinced that Ocelot was gone forever. She died thinking Liquid actually existed.

See, I think this is the problem in understanding the storyline. You don't really know who was lying, when, and when did they stop. You don't know if (MGS2)

Spoiler

Ocelot was only faking the arm thing so that Snake would see Liquid's behind everything, or did the psychotherapy started to act and Ocelot started doing what he thinks Liquid would do

. Same goes with Eva, (MGS4, Act 3)

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did she lie everything? Did she lie that she didn't know about Liquid/Ocelot, did she lie her anger when Big Boss's corpse were burning, or did she really thought that was Liquid taking control, and Big Boss burning?

This may sound kinda strange, but I think it's still possible

Spoiler

she may have been fooling us all along

.

 

[Sin]

Beat the game today and its seriously one of the best games I have ever played. So many great moments which left me with my mouth open.

Just epic, that is all.

 

[TheWolf]

Also, had Raiden not stopped the Nomad, wouldn't Snake have been crushed, thus ruining Ocelot's plan to have him destroy the AI?[/spoiler]

exactly,

Spoiler

there were way too many things that could have gone wrong for it to be a viable plan in the first place.

and if

Spoiler

Liquid was lying in MGS2, he sure did a great job of mimicking Liquid's voice!

 

[victreeb3l]

okay just got my hands on this, and man im loving it so far. those gekkos scare the fucking shit out of me.

man, im just here chilling out and then MOOOOOOOOO. augh, heart attacks every time..

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Its stuff like this that makes the whole

Spoiler

Ocelot is acting thing seem ridiculous. If its Liquid it makes sense, not liquid, doesn't make sense.

How about all the millions of times

Spoiler

Ocelot lets Snake live? That makes the Liquid being in control thing not make sense either.

 

[reilo]

but how can

Spoiler

he lie to AI? isn't he loaded with nanomachines connected to the AI? wouldn't they know his true motives all along?

Since

Spoiler

Ocelot was one of the members of the Patriots, the Patriots did not keep access/track of their members. It's why they could not find Big Boss or Eva, nor could they find Major Zero. Remember that if you have nanomachines, you can be tracked. The AIs in the Patriots could not track or access their members' nanomachines.

 

[Automatisch]

Its stuff like this that makes the whole

Spoiler

Ocelot is acting thing seem ridiculous. If its Liquid it makes sense, not liquid, doesn't make sense.

To make it easier to understand, I just assume that

Spoiler

Ocelot's mind was just fucked up and he had Liquid's personality become dominant at certain times from carrying him inside all this time, due to all the therapy etc... It just makes everything a lot less retarded to think of it that way because then you could just say that Liquid was the one doing certain acts, and Ocelot was doing others, both unaware of one another. I don't know, it's all just too much after the whole Liquid thing is shown to be bullshit. Maybe Vamp just knew Snake was gonna kill him after talking with Naomi. The Nomad thing really bothers me, though. Unless Ocelot somehow planned for Raiden to come...

 

[Vyse The Legend]

See, I think this is the problem in understanding the storyline. You don't really know who was lying, when, and when did they stop. You don't know if (MGS2)

Spoiler

Ocelot was only faking the arm thing so that Snake would see Liquid's behind everything, or did the psychotherapy started to act and Ocelot started doing what he thinks Liquid would do

. Same goes with Eva, (MGS4, Act 3)

Spoiler

did she lie everything? Did she lie that she didn't know about Liquid/Ocelot, did she lie her anger when Big Boss's corpse were burning, or did she really thought that was Liquid taking control, and Big Boss burning?

This may sound kinda strange, but I think it's still possible

Spoiler

she may have been fooling us all along

.

Actually, it's 100% confirmed that

Spoiler

Eva was in on the whole plan to fake Liquid, BUT by the end of Act 3 she thought the Liquid persona really DID take over and Ocelot was gone forever. She dies believing the lie too.

 

[methos75]

Who the hell said that OoT is the best game ever?

MGS4 is fucking awesome and it's better than OoT. But it's no way in hell the best game ever created.

According to gamerankings, OOT is the highest rated game ever.

 

[Teknoman]

okay just got my hands on this, and man im loving it so far. those gekkos scare the fucking shit out of me.

man, im just here chilling out and then MOOOOOOOOO. augh, heart attacks every time..

lol seriously. Its probably because they are so agile and flexible.

 

[No_Style]

Last MGS4 Bonus Round up.

 

[MiamiWesker]

To make it easier to understand, I just assume that

Spoiler

Ocelot's mind was just fucked up and he had Liquid's personality become dominant at certain times from carrying him inside all this time, due to all the therapy etc... It just makes everything a lot less retarded to think of it that way because then you could just say that Liquid was the one doing certain acts, and Ocelot was doing others, both unaware of one another. I don't know, it's all just too much after the whole Liquid thing is shown to be bullshit. Maybe Vamp just knew Snake was gonna kill him after talking with Naomi. The Nomad thing really bothers me, though. Unless Ocelot somehow planned for Raiden to come...

Yeah thats how I do see it

Spoiler

Ocelot did not have complete control, he had some but in the end it really was Liquids personallity so all the crazy murders was all by products. The way I see it, Ocelot was attempting to steer a mad man. In the end he kind of came through and broke free from Liquid.

 

[Yoshichan]

According to gamerankings, OOT is the highest rated game ever.

Oh my God.

EDIT: According to Gamerankins, God Hand is scored 7.5 and that's the best action game ever created. What's up with that? Hm, yes I wonder!

 

[Attack You]

To make it easier to understand, I just assume that

Spoiler

Ocelot's mind was just fucked up and he had Liquid's personality become dominant at certain times from carrying him inside all this time, due to all the therapy etc... It just makes everything a lot less retarded to think of it that way because then you could just say that Liquid was the one doing certain acts, and Ocelot was doing others, both unaware of one another. I don't know, it's all just too much after the whole Liquid thing is shown to be bullshit. Maybe Vamp just knew Snake was gonna kill him after talking with Naomi. The Nomad thing really bothers me, though. Unless Ocelot somehow planned for Raiden to come...

Yeah, I think some of us are confusing

Spoiler

the psychotherapy with acting. Neither Ocelot or Liquid were in control 100% of the time, it would seem

.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Just beat it. I'll post lengthy thoughts later, but I don't think I've ever seen another game do so many things so well before. Truly a remarkable achievement.

 

[methos75]

Oh my God.

I know I know, just saying that is where the conception that OOT is the best comes from, it has the highest number of positive reviews overall than any other game. Now bare in mind though that MGS4 just came out, so it could surpass it over time.

 

[AndresON777]

According to gamerankings, OOT is the highest rated game ever.

only 22 reviews, GTAIV on ps3 got robbed

 

[MiamiWesker]

How about all the millions of times

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Ocelot lets Snake live? That makes the Liquid being in control thing not make sense either.

Thats just

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Liquid being stupid super villain, like any Bond villain that lets him live cause he can't possibly stop him.

 

[Automatisch]

Yeah thats how I do see it

Spoiler

Ocelot did not have complete control, he had some but in the end it really was Liquids personallity so all the crazy murders was all by products. The way I see it, Ocelot was attempting to steer a mad man. In the end he kind of came through and broke free from Liquid.

If you think of it this way, it makes everything work.

Spoiler

Liquid was trying to kill Snake with the Nomad, but Ocelot was the one that didn't fire the Railgun, etc. I have no problem with this theory. It makes Vamp and the BNB's purpose a lot more understandable, since if Ocelot was in control the entire time then clearly things would have turned out a bit differently. Perhaps neither was in control and it was simply a third personality that dominated as well.

 

[Arhal_Katarn]

Just started act 5. I really cant believe how great this game has turned out to be, i am huge MGS fanboy and yet i am totally blown away by the quality of it. Kojima has truly delivered the game he promised and then some, easily me fav game of this gen by a long way.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Thats just

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Liquid being stupid super villain, like any Bond villain that lets him live cause he can't possibly stop him.

Nope. The official guide specifically says

Spoiler

he let him live time and time again to keep him going.

 

[Captain Glanton]

Oh my God.

EDIT: According to Gamerankins, God Hand is scored 7.5 and that's the best action game ever created. What's up with that? Hm, yes I wonder!

:lol It's just not a day on GAF without seeing people fighting the good fight for God Hand.

 

[TheWolf]

If you think of it this way, it makes everything work.

Spoiler

Liquid was trying to kill Snake with the Nomad, but Ocelot was the one that didn't fire the Railgun, etc. I have no problem with this theory. It makes Vamp and the BNB's purpose a lot more understandable, since if Ocelot was in control the entire time then clearly things would have turned out a bit differently. Perhaps neither was in control and it was simply a third personality that dominated as well.

but

Spoiler

Liquid explicitly says that HE wanted Snake to live so he could destroy the AI. so why attack Snake in the Ray in the first place?

:lol

 

[rollingstart]

:lol It's just not a day on GAF without seeing people fighting the good fight for God Hand.

The good fight involves kicking someone into the milky way. What an awesome fight to be a part of.

Last MGS4 Bonus Round up.

Hayter is so flustered at the first question. What hard thing to answer without giving anything up.

A Metal Gear Solid anime similar to how Gotham Knights is being done would be awesome.

 

[Elios83]

Actually, it's 100% confirmed that

Spoiler

Eva was in on the whole plan to fake Liquid, BUT by the end of Act 3 she thought the Liquid persona really DID take over and Ocelot was gone forever. She dies believing the lie too.

Yes that makes sense especially with the

Spoiler

ADAM question before the attack, she was asking if he was still with her.
But the whole Ocelot acting like Liquid doesn't make a lot of sense. Basically at least initially he fakes to be overtaken by Liquid's personality to not show the Patriots he has betrayed them in first person.
But what's the purpose of all this? The Patriots still know there's plan against them, although they thought it was Liquid and he wanted to assume control over them, not destroy them. What would have changed if Ocelot did the same things with its own identity?

 

[MiamiWesker]

but

Spoiler

Liquid explicitly says that HE wanted Snake to live so he could destroy the AI. so why attack Snake in the Ray in the first place?

:lol

Spoiler

Ocelot wanted Snake to live, Liquid wanted Snake to die.

 

[Automatisch]

but

Spoiler

Liquid explicitly says that HE wanted Snake to live so he could destroy the AI. so why attack Snake in the Ray in the first place?

:lol

Spoiler

That was Liquid, not Ocelot. Liquid wanted Snake dead so that he could rule without interference, and Ocelot subdued Liquid at some points in the game to the point where he would give Snake a fighting chance at least. So in a way, Liquid probably did take over Ocelot's mind, just not in the same way we thought.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

Spoiler

That was Liquid, not Ocelot. Liquid wanted Snake dead so that he could rule without interference, and Ocelot subdued Liquid at some points in the game to the point where he would give Snake a fighting chance at least. So in a way, Liquid probably did take over Ocelot's mind, just not in the same way we thought.

Spoiler

That's how i view it. Its the same as we have all thought, but instead of it being the "arm" it was actually all the psycho therapy Ocelot endured. It became two personalities fighting in one mind. And over time the "Liquid" personality took over more. And i like this a bit more, because it helps complete Ocelot's journey more. Before the epilogue i thought his story was being short changed because since MGS1 i've been wanting to know more about what his whole agenda was. He was so many different double agents you never really knew.

 

[reilo]

Last MGS4 Bonus Round up.

So disappointed that Hayter is talking in his natural voice. SO DISAPPOINTED.

 

[Big-E]

About Ocelot,

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It becomes clear that he is control as he does his signature move when he dies.

 

[SleazyC]

Yes that makes sense especially with the

Spoiler

ADAM question before the attack, she was asking if he was still with her.
But the whole Ocelot acting like Liquid doesn't make a lot of sense. Basically at least initially he fakes to be overtaken by Liquid's personality to not show the Patriots he has betrayed them in first person.
But what's the purpose of all this? The Patriots still know there's plan against them, although they thought it was Liquid and he wanted to assume control over them, not destroy them. What would have changed if Ocelot did the same things with its own identity?

Spoiler

Both Ocelot and the Patriots played protracted games of cat and mouse, trying to one up each other. If Ocelot had gone straight at the Patriots system after getting control of GW I am sure that the AI would have tried to do something that would have jeopardized their plan. The Patriots were planning on Snake and crew to inject the virus that destroyed GW but they didn't plan for Sunny to destroy their other AI's too (as Shouta said, Sunny was the X-factor).

 

[Solo]

Just finished it. 18.5 hours, Hawk rating.

What Ive been saying the few times I posted while playing has held through to the very end - which is that, for me, this game does most things so fucking right, but drops the ball on the story/plot end of things, which, for a MGS game, is a cardinal sin. So here is a game that features the best graphics, animation, cutscene direction, and sound design I've ever seen in a game full stop, as well as unbelievably improved gameplay from the previous games, all bogged down in a story that really never engaged me for a second like the previous entries in the series have.

Its gonna be a hard one to rate for me. I need to give it a second playthrough, and stew over it in my mind for a bit. Initial gut reaction ranking though? 1 > 2 > 4 > 3.

The final fight scene was the most incredibly badass thing ever, though, so kudos to KP for that.

 

[TheWolf]

Spoiler

That was Liquid, not Ocelot. Liquid wanted Snake dead so that he could rule without interference, and Ocelot subdued Liquid at some points in the game to the point where he would give Snake a fighting chance at least. So in a way, Liquid probably did take over Ocelot's mind, just not in the same way we thought.

um, but

Spoiler

he talked about how the world would now tear itself apart now that the AI was gone. so that was Ocelot? because that was never Ocelot's agenda.

 

[ToyMachine228]

Started my second play through today. Just completed Act 1. God I love this game. It's so easy to just get lost in it. Seriously, MGS4 IS what next-generation gaming is. I seriously consider it one of the best games of all time.

 

[MyEpitomeCliché]

Alright, I'm at my wit's end.

Spoiler

I've been attempting to get through first part of Act 5 on Haven, with all the FROGS and Gekkos for the last two hours. I'm at a loss as to what is the best strategy. I know gunning your way through is nigh impossible, and I've tried the stealthy approach, but I always get caught. I've made it to the door as much as when the Gekko drops in front of it and the Missouri takes it out. Looks all clear, nothing on my radar, and as I run to the door, I get spotted by FROGS that apparently were hiding who-the-fuck knows where. I'm just really frustrated at this point. It's been a great experience so far, but this spike in difficulty really kills it for me. Any advice? Please?

 

[MiamiWesker]

Let Hayter write the movie please. He has the right idea.