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[Screaming Meat]

Well I think Nullpointer said it best



Having said that I guess bad is too harsh a word. I take it back. It is not the most fun mission to do and I will admit I had some problems attempting that mission without Fulton. Mission 45 is one of the worst missions if not the worst though. That one sucks so bad.

Not had the pleasure!

My biggest complaint about 16 is not really the difficulty (though I had my share of troubles), but the fact that everything they were trying to do with that mission instantly becomes pointless if you proceed as intended and die halfway through. The mission spoils itself.

I'm sorry, I don't follow. The developers intended for players to die halfway through?

For my take, all the parts I mentioned in my previous post.

Spoiler

Create a game that rewards patience and preparation and proper recon and careful movements, and then throw that all out the window by forcing a timer. Start that timer when the mission starts and only then tell the player the overall scenario - you know you have to fulton a truck, and know that it'll have some protection, but you don't know where its traveling from or to, nor do you know that nature of its protection - not until you get on the ground with your loadout and buddy and do some interrogating - at which point your loadout and/or buddy might not be right for the mission.

But lets say the player is ready for that, or quickly adapts to changing circumstances, the mission throws a big fuck you by having the most powerful enemies in the game - at that point anyway) magically spring into existence when the player gets close, no matter how stealthy that player is being. That's cheap, and its a designer cheating with their own rules, to force the player into a surprise bad-situation.

I didn't see it like that at all. I thought the mission was a nice surprise; seemingly insurmountable but actually very easy when some thought is applied and the

Spoiler

timer

is ignored.

I'm not against mixing things up. If they followed established rules for the duration of the game without a few surprises or rug pulls, it could get boring. I don't think that's bad game design, I think it is necessary to game design.

Even if you are in perfect stealth the enemies will all face you and shamble towards you - again a violation of the rules established in the game and reinforced in every mission and side op. You throw those ground rules aside and the world is no longer fair or consistent but capricious and forced.

Actually, that little quirk is established at the end of

Spoiler

Episode 1

. That's how you can do both missions Perfect Stealth without upgrades; you use that little idiosyncrasy against them. At least, I did.

 

[Easton Dark]

Actually I haven't tried that at least for the Expert playthrough of it. Back when I was on the Normal Mode mission, I haven't had Cargo extraction unlocked yet so that wasn't an option to me and for all Expert modes I just kinda repeated my approach which always worked well enough.

I'll try that when I go for S-Ranking all missions. Thanks!

For most missions that you return to S-Rank, ALWAYS consider the container extraction method. It often saves you minutes on time, and is sometimes essential for clearing optional objectives.

 

[muteki]

It definetely becomes easier on subsequent playthroughs. I did the mission again after completing the story mode for extracting

Spoiler

Skulls

and finished in a couple of minutes or so

Spoiler

by directly going to the airport and using the launcher to take them out and extract them

and got an S. It is a boring mission but it is awesome for farming quality soldiers on subsequent breakthroughs after you leveled up your mother base.

Stupid question:

Spoiler

How do you extract Skulls? I was trying to on a different mission and they always disappear after defeat or the fulton icon is crossed out when I get close to them.

If it requires you to use non-lethal means, what works?

I'm sorry, I don't follow. The developers intended for players to die halfway through?

Spoiler

Sorry, I mean proceeding with the mission as intended the first time through, then happening to die later on.

I believe the mission is designed around discovering and tracking the escorts to discover the location of the truck, then catching up to/extracting the truck. If you do the first half and happen to die, you already know where the truck is. When you restart, the truck will be sitting there in the exact same spot, waiting to be extracted.

I think if they wanted to make a mission that wasn't "go recover/extract x" and have a little more variety, they would have the truck start out moving from the get go, perhaps from different randomized start points. That would force the player to improvise more with a moving target than one sitting in a parking lot.

Of course you don't have to game the system if you so choose and could wait, but still.

 

[Dr_Boris_Goltz]

Also Pequod being an asshole.

Hahahahahaha

 

[Qwell]

Ive tried most of these things and I keep failing, as soon as I try to fulton the vehicle, the stupid ghosts or what ever come and shoot it down. Then i thought id get into the tank and kill them, but for some reason I cant get the tank to shoot anything.

Then when I finally did, i blew up the vehicle and then each time I reloaded the checkpoint, the vehicle kept blowing up on its own. So I had to restart.

Then I decided fuck it, ill go straight to the air port and do it there.

Nope.

I die before I can even find the vehicle.

I guess I just suck ass at this game. Its really frustating. It shouldnt take 3-4 hours to complete 1 mission. Im to the point now where if i try anymore, im just gonna get angry. I had to stop for the day. This shit is just too annoying.

It really sucks too, i was enjoying this game, but it seems like I just dont have the patience for this shit anymore. And whats even dumber is that this feels like a fucking side-op. I bet this leads to 0 story progression.

Sorry, im just salty right now. Thanks for the tips and when I try again later Ill see if I can implement them.

If you ever have that much trouble with a mission just look up one of the many youtube guides. People will show you where the place a marker on the map for an easy entrance and how to handle enemies if you need to. Take this one for instance, I didn't have to use it, but I did look at it later when I was doing my S rank stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c87xqsEJg1A

If you don't have the special fulton, but you do have cargo, just shoot the

Spoiler

skulls

as soon as you fulton them to destract from popping the balloon. I did this a few times in a row just to get some easy GMP since its an S rank in like 4 minutes including fly in time. Also that guys channel has an S rank for every mission in the game, and in the comments people will talk about other sometimes better methods of completing the mission.

 

[brau]

Stupid question:

Spoiler

How do you extract Skulls? I was trying to on a different mission and they always disappear after defeat or the fulton icon is crossed out when I get close to them.

If it requires you to use non-lethal means, what works?

Spoiler

Take quiet with you... equip the non lethal sniper. Wore down their armor, and watch Quiet take them down with 2 hits. Make sure you extract them right away, or they will disappear if you get rid of all of them.

 

[Dunkley]

Every story bit in this game makes me feel like I should feel something... but I don't. Maybe it's the lack of dialogue from Big Boss but something just seems off...

Maybe my nostalgia runs deeper for the older mgs games but I hope I get some feels at the end of this game

The cassette tapes helped me like Big Boss a lot more at least from the character, but yeah I didn't really connect with the story on any emotional level.

Which was pretty surprising to me considering in comparison the MGS3 ending still makes me tear up.

For most missions that you return to S-Rank, ALWAYS consider the container extraction method. It often saves you minutes on time, and is sometimes essential for clearing optional objectives.

Will do, I've been always marking myself already one container to use for a swift escape but as shown before I kinda forget I have it when I think about earlier missions.

 

[myco666]

Holy shit, the second volley of gunfire and then Pequod turning away like, "fuckin' got 'em!"

Incredible.

this is gold...

love he goes and throws a second row, just because fuck you

The whole situation reminded me of Mission 31 when

Spoiler

Huey shoots Skullface.

Laughed super hard when this happened.

 

[Easton Dark]

^^^ Not a really comprehensive answer to this:

Stupid question:

Spoiler

How do you extract Skulls? I was trying to on a different mission and they always disappear after defeat or the fulton icon is crossed out when I get close to them.

If it requires you to use non-lethal means, what works?

Spoiler

Lethal or non-lethal, doesn't matter, the Skulls can't die. To extract them, you need to develop the Parasite Suit. Once it is available, you can extract Skulls. Skulls will stay on the field until every one of them is incapacitated. After that, you have maybe 15 seconds before they all jump away. So extract during the fight, or be quick about it afterwards.

 

[see5harp]

Or you pop out the cardboard box and travel within your base in like ten seconds.

I was not even aware of fast travel in this game. Did they explain that at any point?

EDIT: My complaints about mother base, the lack of anything remotely to do there, the empty sterile nature of it, still stands. It's literally a place to go back and hear "my head, it hurts"

 

[KarmaCow]

Stupid question:

Spoiler

How do you extract Skulls? I was trying to on a different mission and they always disappear after defeat or the fulton icon is crossed out when I get close to them.

If it requires you to use non-lethal means, what works?

Spoiler

You just can after a certain point, it's not dependent on how you took them out. If you use lethal weapons, they start to escape after you take out all four. It's not immediate so you can still get them but using non-lethal weapons just means they stay on the ground forever after the battle.

 

[Dunkley]

I was not even aware of fast travel in this game. Did they explain that at any point?

EDIT: My complaints about mother base, the lack of anything remotely to do there, the empty sterile nature of it, still stands. It's literally a place to go back and hear "my head, it hurts"

They explain it when you pick up your first invoice as far as I remember.

 

[FtHTiny]

Sorry, im just salty right now. Thanks for the tips and when I try again later Ill see if I can implement them.

The truck is parked at the airport from the beginning. You can drive there straight, climb over the fence basically behind it, trigger the scene.
If you fight them take the battle suit and a LMG or it´s possible to just drive the truck away but it´s risky and you need luck to do that.

 

[NullPointer]

I didn't see it like that at all. I thought the mission was a nice surprise; seemingly insurmountable but actually very easy when some thought is applied and the

Spoiler

timer

is ignored.

I think the difference between a nice surprise and full on cheapness might come down to how reasonable you think it is that a player could adapt and overcome the first time through.

If you find that most players fail and restart, maybe even several times before finding a way through it, it can feel a lot more like something cheap than something novel. At least for me.

 

[Qwell]

Stupid question:

Spoiler

How do you extract Skulls? I was trying to on a different mission and they always disappear after defeat or the fulton icon is crossed out when I get close to them.

If it requires you to use non-lethal means, what works?

The only one I know where they disappear is the first one you encounter them mission 6, you can still extract them, you just need to do it before you kill the last one.

Lethal or Non-Lethal doesn't matter, they don't actually die, just get perma stunned. So go full ham, I use mission 16 for extracting

Spoiler

armor ones and I just use the GCM25 launcher on them, I kite them around a building and take them all out in like 3 or 4 rockets. For Camo ones I use mission 28 and the anti material sniper (Brennan) and and Quiet and just snipe away, when you knock those ones out they will teleport to a different location on the map, but still be stunned.

 

[Game4life]

Stupid question:

Spoiler

How do you extract Skulls? I was trying to on a different mission and they always disappear after defeat or the fulton icon is crossed out when I get close to them.

If it requires you to use non-lethal means, what works?

That is weird. Sorry I am not sure. The only time I tried extracting them was after I finished the game and replayed mission 16. I did not have any specific fulton just for it. I had the one upgraded with the ability to Fulton children but thats about it. If you have finished Mission 28 then I do know for those

Spoiler

Skull snipers you need to fulton them using the portal fulton which you can only get after finishing side ops 49 and 51 I think? and if your R&D and Support level are both 40

but I think you should be able to extract the others with the normal fulton. I also used a Launcher to finish them before extracting.

 

[see5harp]

They explain it when you pick up your first invoice as far as I remember.

I don't think I've even seen an invoice or picked one up.

 

[muteki]

That is weird. Sorry I am not sure. The only time I tried extracting them was after I finished the game and replayed mission 16. I did not have any specific fulton just for it. I had the one upgraded with the ability to Fulton children but thats about it. If you have finished Mission

Spoiler

28

then I do know for those

Spoiler

Skull snipers you need to fulton them using the portal fulton which you can only get after finishing side ops 49 and 51 I think? and if your R&D and Support level are both 40

but I think you should be able to extract the others with the normal fulton. I also used a Launcher to finish them before extracting.

It was

Spoiler

28

in this specific case, so that might explain it. Haven't tried it with other encounters and just noticed this time through that extracting them were extra goals for that mission.

 

[Snakes On A Dirigible]

I don't think this is a spoiler question but, how exactly are you supposed to start a New Game from scratch? I don't see an option anywhere, even though I've beaten the game.

 

[Dunkley]

I don't think I've even seen an invoice or picked one up.

Oh, haha, that explains it then. You can pick them up from the signposts at delivery points located at the bigger outposts to fast travel in between them like you can at Mother Base.

But I guess they didn't attribute for people never picking up one on the field before unlocking fast travel at Mother Base.

 

[KarmaCow]

I don't think this is a spoiler question but, how exactly are you supposed to start a New Game from scratch? I don't see an option anywhere, even though I've beaten the game.

There is only one save file.

 

[Easton Dark]

I don't think this is a spoiler question but, how exactly are you supposed to start a New Game from scratch? I don't see an option anywhere, even though I've beaten the game.

The option on the main menu that says delete save data? Never tried it myself, but seems plausible.

I bet the limit of only one save file is so the Konami servers don't have to keep track of so many extra FOBs.

 

[Game4life]

It was

Spoiler

28

in this specific case, so that might explain it. Haven't tried it with other encounters and just noticed this time through that extracting them were extra goals for that mission.

Yeah for that mission you definitely need the special fulton.

 

[Screaming Meat]

I think the difference between a nice surprise and full on cheapness might come down to how reasonable you think it is that a player could adapt and overcome the first time through.

If you find that most players fail and restart, maybe even several times before finding a way through it, it can feel a lot more like something cheap than something novel. At least for me.

I get where you're coming from.

I think I feel similarly. Something is cheap in a game when only prior knowledge will stop you from restarting or being insta-killed at a particular point. It's a fine balancing act creating sufficent surprises and challenges, whilst not feeling the challenge is cheap or unavoidable.

Personally, I didn't have that experience with this mission, so I guess I don't see it as cheap. I kept playing how I was playing (slowly, patiently) and I used knowledge I'd accrued earlier in the game to overcome the surprise in spite of the additional time pressures. IMO that's ideally how mixing things up should be/affect the player.

 

[Pitch Black Flint]

Uploaded some videos to youtube.
Also Pequod being an asshole.

Ha! Reminds me of the time I was trying to interrogate a soldier while Quiet was providing cover fire. Every time I woke him up and grabbed him, Quiet would knock him out with tranqs again. Felt like Karma for all the times I'd screw with the guards in the same way in Sons of Liberty.

 

[Sub_Level]

There is definitely a lot more leniency here than in past games. Getting lined up just right for a choke in MGS1 was a fine art.

Pro retro tip: You could line up your MGS1 chokes much easier by running to the guard, punching him once, and then choking. Its more consistent than running up to them and instantly pressing the choking button.

 

[dealer-]

I don't think this is a spoiler question but, how exactly are you supposed to start a New Game from scratch? I don't see an option anywhere, even though I've beaten the game.

Play the game on a new account. I think that's the only way.

 

[sappyday]

I think I'm officially calling it quits with this game. Fuck mission 45. It's not even worthy since I hate the character you're trying to save.

 

[Inferno313]

I think I'm officially calling it quits with this game. Fuck mission 45. It's not even worthy since I hate the character you're trying to save.

Call down a Battle Dress supply drop, and a supply drop of your best rocket launcher (the one they give you is meh.) then it's pretty doable.

 

[rtcn63]

Yeah im about fucking done with this game. Traitors caravan mission is the dumbest shit ive ever seen in any video game ever. I cant beat this shit. Ive been trying for 2 fucking hours and im about to say fuck it. Im starting to hate this game

Spoiler

Do the two tanks not show up? They should be escorting the truck. And IIRC the skulls you fight aren't as hard as later ones.

 

[NullPointer]

Personally, I didn't have that experience with this mission, so I guess I don't see it as cheap. I kept playing how I was playing (slowly, patiently) and I used knowledge I'd accrued earlier in the game to overcome the surprise in spite of the additional time pressures. IMO that's ideally how mixing things up should be/affect the player.

Yeah, something I've noticed is that If I've managed to get through a section of the game the first time through only to later hear about how many players failed and retried I probably won't see it as cheap. But if *I* am the one failing and restarting - like the mission we're talking about - then it was totally cheap from the get-go ;p

And thanks for the tip on how to exploit that particular 'quirk' of those enemies. Will keep that in mind for next time.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Yeah, something I've noticed is that If I've managed to get through a section of the game the first time through only to later hear about how many players failed and retried I probably won't see it as cheap. But if *I* am the one failing and restarting - like the mission we're talking about - then it was totally cheap from the get-go ;p

And thanks for the tip on how to exploit that particular 'quirk' of those enemies. Will keep that in mind for next time.

That's a good point! It's all relative, I guess.

 

[Lanrutcon]

Guys, I feel like more people need to play with smoke grenades. If you toss a few they block line of sight almost completely, allowing you to get away with murder/futoning/C4 planting in broad daylight. Smoke does NOT raise the alarm, does NOT interfere with futon chances, works against armored enemies and incapacitates most enemies as if you'd stun grenaded them.

So many of my S ranks were achieved by throwing a wall of smoke at an intensely guarded area, running at the objective, doing shit, running the fuck away.

 

[Angry Guy]

Do we have any word on when those DLC costumes are gonna be dropping?

 

[mussolman]

Seems I got lucky with mission 16.

Spoiler

I just EM mined the lead APC, had the Skulls spawn and got in the APC and blew them away. Drove the truck out of the hot zone, S-rank.

 

[TheSeks]

Guys, I feel like more people need to play with smoke grenades. If you toss a few they block line of sight almost completely, allowing you to get away with murder/futoning/C4 planting in broad daylight. Smoke does NOT raise the alarm, does NOT interfere with futon chances, works against armored enemies and incapacitates most enemies as if you'd stun grenaded them.

So many of my S ranks were achieved by throwing a wall of smoke at an intensely guarded area, running at the objective, doing shit, running the fuck away.

Yep. Smoke grenades are infinitely useful here. Problem is landing them accurately to take a group into a stun.

Do we have any word on when those DLC costumes are gonna be dropping?

Next two weeks or so. When MGO hits consoles or something like that.

 

[MisterMac]

If you are having trouble with Traitor's Caravan you can sneak into the Airport before the tanks show up. There is even a break in the barbed wire right where the truck is. Trigger the skulls, run in and fulton the truck, then run through the airport to the section that has the cargo containers and use the Cargo fulton to ride out. Ignore the skulls and it's easy as heck.

For fighting the armored Skulls use a heavy machinegun and light them up. If they come in to melee you wait for the R2 prompt then melee counter them and light them up with the machinegun while they are in a stun state.

 

[Sub_Level]

This is a very comprehensive and helpful tutorial for those of you who want to get into the FOB system.

 

[Marty-esque]

Guys, I feel like more people need to play with smoke grenades. If you toss a few they block line of sight almost completely, allowing you to get away with murder/futoning/C4 planting in broad daylight. Smoke does NOT raise the alarm, does NOT interfere with futon chances, works against armored enemies and incapacitates most enemies as if you'd stun grenaded them.

So many of my S ranks were achieved by throwing a wall of smoke at an intensely guarded area, running at the objective, doing shit, running the fuck away.

Yep. Smoke grenades are a valuable tool. I used them less once I developed sleep grenades though. But they are awesome when you need to blanket and area and get out.

 

[LiK]

Smoke is useful against those fucking tanks in some SideOps

 

[ChimpanzeeThat]

Smoke is useful against those fucking tanks in some SideOps

D-Walker + Ballista = free tanks

I done all of the Tank Unit missions pretty much back to back and had 12 tanks in my resources.

I now have one of every vehicle.

 

[Sub_Level]

Smoke is useful against those fucking tanks in some SideOps

If you're doing side ops you may as well use

Spoiler

stealth camo

.

 

[JP]

Well that went wrong in the worst possible way.

Starting playing Episode 5: Over The Fence, when I remembered seeing this video (A New Breed of Stealth) and thought I'd have a bit of a play with it.

Started off brilliantly, drove in, got the prisoner and started exfiltration but somehow managed to throw a flare grenade inside the jeep instead of a smoke grenade which made me the most obvious bloody thing in the whole of Afghanistan.

Lost the jeep, rescued the prisoner but it was complete chaos as I didn't work out what the hell was going on for about two minutes. There was mortars exploding all over the place.

 

[GravyButt]

Silly question but I just fultoned a ton of a++ soldiers then fell to my death like a turd, when it reloaded my checkpoint it had all those guys respawned and already mapped out. Did I lose them at motherbase or are they there?

 

[MisterMac]

Silly question but I just fultoned a ton of a++ soldiers then fell to my death like a turd, when it reloaded my checkpoint it had all those guys respawned and already mapped out. Did I lose them at motherbase or are they there?

If you died before you got the message that your extractions had arrived at mother base then I believe they are gone to the ether.

 

[Afrodium]

I think I'm officially calling it quits with this game. Fuck mission 45. It's not even worthy since I hate the character you're trying to save.

It's not a required mission. I actually unlocked the secret final mission before mission 45. There's really no reason to beat it unless you need closure to that character's story and want some emblems.

 

[Ulldog]

Quick question; Will levelling up Quiet benefit/impact the story later in the game?

 

[GravyButt]

If you died before you got the message that your extractions had arrived at mother base then I believe they are gone to the ether.

Hmm i don't recall but when I looked it had a bunch of guys in the brig with the little dot next to them ( like the something is new dot) so maybe im good) but yet again ive extracted so many a++ guys lately I dont know whos who!!

 

[Randam]

I've nearly 100%'d the game and I still find that mission to be bullshit. Stick with it, it's the biggest difficulty spike in the game by far. And yes, it's terribly designed.

okay, I didn't get a S-Rank and used reflex but I had no problems with it.

use the armored sneaking suit, just run to the truck and fulton it and then start running.
call for d-horse and fucking leave the mission zone.

was under heavy fire the whole time, but did it.

enemies suddenly disappear, when you leave the mission zone.

 

[FoxnHurley]

Silly question but I just fultoned a ton of a++ soldiers then fell to my death like a turd, when it reloaded my checkpoint it had all those guys respawned and already mapped out. Did I lose them at motherbase or are they there?

They would have been saved if you saw the yellow save icon appear in the upper right-hand corner of the screen after you fultoned them. My guess is you lost them and you'll have to fulton them again. Fortunately, they'll still have their same ranks as long as you don't call for ACC and redo the mission again by a complete restart. Sucks, but at least you'll have the same ranks.