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[SantaC]

So your definition of exploration is a game that forces you to back track into previous areas? I'm don't understand why creating new areas to go through makes the game an action game. Besides, I don't mind some back tracking. I just don't want it to be the focus.

As I said. Metroid games = non linear.

With no backtracking it becomes too linear.

 

[bitwise]

gamespot score: 7.9

 

[Do The Mario]

As I said. Metroid games = non linear.

With no backtracking it becomes too linear.

I think metroid prime was a very linear game, find a power up then some bullshit will come up like temperate risen in area x etc.. etc.. Then you march off to the point the game tells you to go and find the next power up then repeat.

 

[skip]

its a 10 right?

no, it's not. dfs makes some really good points that anyone who has played the game could understand, even if they wouldn't totally agree with:

-the control scheme, which is fine for most of the game, sucks when fighting most of the bosses.

-more artificial playtime extension bullshit with the dark key hunting. wtf is up with nintendo.

-backtracking seems a bit "off" compared to previous metroids. he's not docking points that backtracking exists, just that it wasn't really done as well as Prime.

-underused cool stuff like the echo visor and screw attack.

-a lot of the more complex and time-consuming puzzles will only yield a +5 missile.

a lot of you are vindicating drinkyMAF in this thread, just so you know.

 

[Razoric]

As I said. Metroid games = non linear.

With no backtracking it becomes too linear.

You think backtracking makes a game non-linear?? It's just an easy way to reuse stages and mask linearity. The only reason you backtrack is to grab an item you couldnt reach unless you had another item to reach it... that's still linear.

 

[Baron Aloha]

I think metroid prime was a very linear game, find a power up then some bullshit will come up like temperate risen in area x etc.. etc.. Then you march off to the point the game tells you to go and find the next power up then repeat.

If you turn the hints off you never have to worry about that.

 

[Do The Mario]

If you turn the hints off you never have to worry about that.

Well I just played the game the way it came out of the box, should have nothing to do with tinkering the options.

out of the box mp = linear

 

[paul777]

I'm not worried about the scores. Now that I've read a few in-depth previews/reviews, I know this will be my console GOTY.

 

[Razoric]

I'm not worried about the scores. Now that I've read a few in-depth previews, I know this will be my console GOTY.

without even playing it? :\

 

[Baron Aloha]

without even playing it? :\

Please. As if that was ever a pre-requisite around here.

 

[Razoric]

Please. As if that was ever a pre-requisite around here.

True but it's still mindboggling...

 

[paul777]

without even playing it? :\

I played Metroid Prime and loved it. I also played the demo. I somewhat know what to expect.

 

[mumu]

without even playing it? :\

Think Halo2.

 

[Do The Mario]

I played Metroid Prime and loved it. I also played the demo. I somewhat know what to expect.

Make sure you play MGS2 first it’s the official GOTY of GAF

 

[sprsk]

asking the question "without even playing it?" on this forum, or any gaming forum for that matter. is like asking a christian "how do you know god exists...have you ever met him??"

yes, thats right im equating fanboy love with religious faith. testify!

 

[SantaC]

no, it's not. dfs makes some really good points that anyone who has played the game could understand, even if they wouldn't totally agree with:

-the control scheme, which is fine for most of the game, sucks when fighting most of the bosses.

-more artificial playtime extension bullshit with the dark key hunting. wtf is up with nintendo.

-backtracking seems a bit "off" compared to previous metroids. he's not docking points that backtracking exists, just that it wasn't really done as well as Prime.

-underused cool stuff like the echo visor and screw attack.

-a lot of the more complex and time-consuming puzzles will only yield a +5 missile.

a lot of you are vindicating drinkyMAF in this thread, just so you know.

So what was the score. A 6?

 

[Rocket Punch]

Those complaints are non applicable here.

Backtracking is really the lifeblood of the Metroid series. It's what makes the world seem huge, come alive, be connected. I personally love that aspect of the game. It's not as if it a "chore" to go back and forth. You are constantly getting new powerups and your enemies change to reflect your new abilities. And that comment about Samus not looking as cool as before?? That sounds just odd is so many ways.

If those are the main complains about the game I am REALLY excited to play this game. Nov 21 can't get here soon enough

Oh yeah, true gamers play with hints turned off, btw.

 

[Nerevar]

As I said. Metroid games = non linear.

With no backtracking it becomes too linear.

Wow, I'm glad you don't make games. Because I certainly don't want to play a game from someone who don't understand what the words "linear" and "non-linear" mean.

 

[TheDuce22]

Backtracking sucks, how people can defend it is beyond me. Nintendo needs to reimagine the metroid series for a new generation. People are getting tired of the gameplay formulas they have been using since nes.

 

[Redbeard]

Those complaints are non applicable here.

Backtracking is really the lifeblood of the Metroids series. It's what makes the world seem huge, come alive, be connected. I personally love that aspect of the game. It's not as if it a "chore" to go back and forth.

Mabye it is a chore in this game...

 

[SantaC]

Wow, I'm glad you don't make games. Because I certainly don't want to play a game from someone who don't understand what the words "linear" and "non-linear" mean.

If you only go through an area once that's a linear game. Point A > Z

Backtracking sucks, how people can defend it is beyond me. Nintendo needs to reimagine the metroid series for a new generation. People are getting tired of the gameplay formulas they have been using since nes.

So tell me how you would make a Metroid Game with new gameplay ideas, and without any backtracking.

 

[Nerevar]

If you only go through an area once that's a linear game. Point A > Z

No. That's not true at all. Nice try though.

 

[SantaC]

No. That's not true at all. Nice try though.

So tell me a non-linear example where you only visit areas once and cannot go back.

 

[Rocket Punch]

So tell me how you would make a Metroid Game with new gameplay ideas, and without any backtracking.

Let's start by calling it [RANDOM FPS TITLE GENERATOR WORKING] = Halo

 

[Bluemercury]

no, it's not. dfs makes some really good points that anyone who has played the game could understand, even if they wouldn't totally agree with:

-the control scheme, which is fine for most of the game, sucks when fighting most of the bosses.

-more artificial playtime extension bullshit with the dark key hunting. wtf is up with nintendo.

-backtracking seems a bit "off" compared to previous metroids. he's not docking points that backtracking exists, just that it wasn't really done as well as Prime.

-underused cool stuff like the echo visor and screw attack.

-a lot of the more complex and time-consuming puzzles will only yield a +5 missile.

a lot of you are vindicating drinkyMAF in this thread, just so you know.

i wonder why Halo 2 got a 10 then, it seems that according to some pple who actually played the game still has the same issues regarding the original in the single player campaign.....

 

[Rocket Punch]

For all intents and purposes suitable to this discussion, the denifinition of non-linear gameplay is for a game to give the player the choice to take on and finish a game by at least two different ways or methods.

So I ask you, what does linear and non-linear gameplay have to do with Metroid and how is that different from 99.8% of the rest of the games out there? Most games are linear games.

 

[Speevy]

gamespot score: 7.9

Are you a quest to see how many times you can be wrong in a one month period?

 

[eso76]

i never complained about the backtracking in SOTN or Ninja Gaiden. I actually really like backtracking, but the one in MP gets uninsteresting rather quickly to me.
SOTN rewards you with hundreds different items, armours, weapons, bonuses. I think they could have thought of something more interesting than the ability to carry more missiles, more bombs or strenghten your shield. My opinion, of course, but i think Metroid shouldn't stick to its roots this much.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

So tell me how you would make a Metroid Game with new gameplay ideas, and without any backtracking.

I dunno, its probably possible to make a Metroid without backtracking. Instead of revisiting old areas, you keep progressing through completely new areas.

But I never had a problem with the backtrackin in MP1. It didnt even feel like backtracking to me, because you were always accessing completely new areas after every backtrack. I dont know how it is in this game though. Hopefully not as bad as this reviewer(or skip) makes it out to be.

 

[Kon Tiki]

you're going to have to explain what the dash jump is, then, and why it wouldn't be possible with dual analog controls. i thought sequence breaking in metroid prime was a matter of using a scanning glitch to jump higher than you're supposed to be able to.

Close. It requires lock-on. Something that would not be necessary with DA.

 

[Nerevar]

So tell me a non-linear example where you only visit areas once and cannot go back.

What? You're commiting a logical fallacy here - attempting to relate two arguments which are unrelated. A game that follows a linear environmental progression has to be linear by nature. But a game that allows for backtracking does not, by nature, have to be non-linear.

For example: A game has two rooms. The whole game is you go into the next room, kill everyone in there, and get a new weapon / power / ability. Then you go back to the previous room, and kill everyone in there. Repeat ad nauseum. Is the game non-linear? No - because every time you play you repeat the same sequence. Thus, it follows a linear progression. But the game has "backtracking". Multiply this example by 100 and you have Metroid Prime.

 

[SantaC]

Well I admit that I got the linearity a little wrong. I got caught in the backtracking argument too much. See I atleast admit my fault.

Regardles what some people say, I happen to like backtracking. It's my opinion and people should respect that.

 

[Kon Tiki]

For example: A game has two rooms. The whole game is you go into the next room, kill everyone in there, and get a new weapon / power / ability. Then you go back to the previous room, and kill everyone in there. Repeat ad nauseum. Is the game non-linear? No - because every time you play you repeat the same sequence. Thus, it follows a linear progression. But the game has "backtracking". Multiply this example by 100 and you have Metroid Prime.

No, just no. Not even close.

 

[king zell]

no, it's not. dfs makes some really good points that anyone who has played the game could understand, even if they wouldn't totally agree with:

-the control scheme, which is fine for most of the game, sucks when fighting most of the bosses.

-more artificial playtime extension bullshit with the dark key hunting. wtf is up with nintendo.

-backtracking seems a bit "off" compared to previous metroids. he's not docking points that backtracking exists, just that it wasn't really done as well as Prime.

-underused cool stuff like the echo visor and screw attack.

-a lot of the more complex and time-consuming puzzles will only yield a +5 missile.

a lot of you are vindicating drinkyMAF in this thread, just so you know.

I smell an 8

 

[Nerevar]

No, just no. Not even close.

What? I bet if I said the gameplay of a game is "enter room, pick up weapons, kill enemies, go to next room" for Halo you wouldn't complain. I'm just boiling the game down to the basic concepts. And despite how much you might hate it, that more or less is Metroid.

 

[TheDuce22]

So tell me how you would make a Metroid Game with new gameplay ideas, and without any backtracking.

Maybe nintendo should hire some more creative people than you and I. They wont though, they will stick with the same old tried and true gameplay. Almost 20 years of the same junk is kinda pushing it.

 

[SantaC]

What? I bet if I said the gameplay of a game is "enter room, pick up weapons, kill enemies, go to next room" for Halo you wouldn't complain. I'm just boiling the game down to the basic concepts. And despite how much you might hate it, that more or less is Metroid.

there are various puzzles in metroid. You just don't shoot all enemies and grab your stuff.

 

[Nerevar]

there are various puzzles in metroid. You just don't shoot all enemies and grab your stuff.

:rolleyes

I was using a simple example to demonstrate how the gameplay of Metroid Prime is linear. There's clearly more to it than just that. Just as there's clearly more to Halo than moving to the next room and shooting some people. Like I said before, Metroid Prime fans are the touchiest fans on the Internet.

 

[Mrbob]

i wonder why Halo 2 got a 10 then, it seems that according to some pple who actually played the game still has the same issues regarding the original in the single player campaign.....

Such as? I've played 12 of the 15 stages and instances where you have to move back in an area are very few and far between.

 

[Kon Tiki]

What? I bet if I said the gameplay of a game is "enter room, pick up weapons, kill enemies, go to next room" for Halo you wouldn't complain. I'm just boiling the game down to the basic concepts. And despite how much you might hate it, that more or less is Metroid.

Two different games. Has nothing to do with the system it is being played on. Halo has levels, once you beat a level you can not go back for the rest of the story. You could of used almost any FPS as an example, why did you try to play the fanboy card?

That fact that you can avoid some mini-bosses or fight bosses out of order while doing nothing out of the ordinary proves your point wrong. There is NO set path in Metroid Prime. You do not even have to get some of the upgrade.

 

[SantaC]

:rolleyes

I was using a simple example to demonstrate how the gameplay of Metroid Prime is linear. There's clearly more to it than just that. Just as there's clearly more to Halo than moving to the next room and shooting some people. Like I said before, Metroid Prime fans are the touchiest fans on the Internet.

Not really. Metroid and Halo fans are all the same. Critisize the game and you know you are in for it. The difference is that Halo never really get critisized, but metroid does. I never use personal attacks when I argue though, because I am not that immature

 

[Eric-GCA]

A problem I have with these reviews from reading them is that regarding Halo 2 and GTA:SA, it seems as though the reviewers were not going over those games with such a fine toothed comb as they seem to be doing with MP2:E.

If I reviewed Halo 2 and GTA:SA with such "critical zeal" as seems to be happening with MP2:E, I'd have a load of complaints and neither game would certainly receive any 10's.

Judging from the reviews, it seems as though these particular individuals were once more docking points because "it isn't Halo".

I'm just so glad I dont care much for Halo and prefer MP's control scheme to the oh-so overrated dual-analog.

 

[Mrbob]

Two different games. Has nothing to do with the system it is being played on. Halo has levels, once you beat a level you can not go back for the rest of the story. You could of used almost any FPS as an example, why did you try to play the fanboy card?

That fact that you can avoid some mini-bosses or fight bosses out of order while doing nothing out of the ordinary proves your point wrong. There is NO set path in Metroid Prime. You do not even have to get some of the upgrade.

Well, saying there is no set path is a bit misleading. The entire world isn't open to you from the beginning. You have to find upgrades/items/weapons that let you traverse new areas. Which means you do have to follow a certain path to find these upgrades in a certain order to move around the map. Once you have all the upgrades then I would agree there is no set path. But you don't start the game with everything in tow.

*Just so someone doesn't start arguing semantics with me, I'm talking about when the real game starts after you leave the space station!*

 

[Nerevar]

That fact that you can avoid some mini-bosses or fight bosses out of order while doing nothing out of the ordinary proves your point wrong. There is NO set path in Metroid Prime. You do not even have to get some of the upgrade.

Just because you can sequence break doesn't make the game non-linear. There is a set path, whether you agree to it or not, that allows for minor deviations along the side. In the end, you still have to visit all the same areas, still fight all the same bosses, and still collect all the same items (whether or not you collect every missle upgrade or just 1 is your own choice - but you still have to get 1). That makes the game linear. We're not talking Morrowind or Deus Ex here - or if you want to use a non-PC example, Animal Crossing.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

no, it's not. dfs makes some really good points that anyone who has played the game could understand, even if they wouldn't totally agree with:

-the control scheme, which is fine for most of the game, sucks when fighting most of the bosses.

-more artificial playtime extension bullshit with the dark key hunting. wtf is up with nintendo.

-backtracking seems a bit "off" compared to previous metroids. he's not docking points that backtracking exists, just that it wasn't really done as well as Prime.

-underused cool stuff like the echo visor and screw attack.

-a lot of the more complex and time-consuming puzzles will only yield a +5 missile.

a lot of you are vindicating drinkyMAF in this thread, just so you know.

uh-oh!

 

[Kon Tiki]

Which means you do have to follow a certain path to find these upgrades in a certain order to move around the map.

False.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Just because you can sequence break doesn't make the game non-linear. There is a set path, whether you agree to it or not, that allows for minor deviations along the side. In the end, you still have to visit all the same areas, still fight all the same bosses, and still collect all the same items (whether or not you collect every missle upgrade or just 1 is your own choice - but you still have to get 1). That makes the game linear. We're not talking Morrowind or Deus Ex here - or if you want to use a non-PC example, Animal Crossing.

Metroid Prime is linear because it has an ending? I guess I can not argue that.

I was not talking about missiles upgrades or health.

 

[Nerevar]

Metroid Prime is linear because it has an ending? I guess I can not argue that.

Considering your avatar, it's pretty obvious you have an agenda and just want to post flamebait (re: my earlier post in the thread). If you actually wanted to get in a serious discussion, you would've responded to the points I raised, but instead you overgeneralized my statement (another logical fallacy!) and failed to actually debate anything. It was nice while it lasted though, but I'm not going to waste my time with another metroid prime fanboy who worships at the twin phalluses of Nintendo and Retro.

 

[Deleted member 284]

Maybe nintendo should hire some more creative people than you and I. They wont though, they will stick with the same old tried and true gameplay. Almost 20 years of the same junk is kinda pushing it.

Yes, cause Nintendo never makes something new out of something old or hire/sign new talent :rolleyes

 

[Mrbob]

False.

Unfalse.

Unless you got a magical copy of MP where you can access Spider Ball restricted areas without the upgrade, or ICE BEAM restricted areas without the upgrade, etc. etc.