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[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

A few hands are enough for that. People who feel triggered by a mentioned gender are not necessarily the hottest fish in the pond.

Ironically, the starting point of this thread is tied to a gender, as there is a definition for incel. Boo hoo and then the nasty woman comes along and says it's not just an incel problem.

Fun fact: About half of gamers are female gamers. If the game is otherwise so great, couldn't women have just bought it? Or isn't that the only problem? You could get the idea that this isn't an incel problem.

I'm curious what percentage of female gamers play "AAA" games.

 

[PeteBull]

I'm curious what percentage of female gamers play "AAA" games.

Again, they can play, 2+ years after launch or/and boyfriends/brothers/fathers game copies, true question is buying 70$ games at launch.
Edit:
Here very recent super woke/feminist article/survey, from march 2024

For women playing video games, it’s (still) a man’s world

Is the video game industry leaving half the population underserved? For women in gaming, it's (still) a man's world.

www2.deloitte.com

Even there they admit obvious truth we, gamers, knew all along

Indeed, half of women gamers surveyed are not interested in multiplayer games, and 69% prefer simple mobile games

 

[GigaBowser]

porjection pacher is woke incell

 

[PeteBull]

porjection pacher is woke incell

I remember back in the day he had much younger trophy wife, no idea now tho

 

[kruis]

Again, they can play, 2+ years after launch or/and boyfriends/brothers/fathers game copies, true question is buying 70$ games at launch.
Edit:
Here very recent super woke/feminist article/survey, from march 2024

For women playing video games, it’s (still) a man’s world

Is the video game industry leaving half the population underserved? For women in gaming, it's (still) a man's world.

www2.deloitte.com

Even there they admit obvious truth we, gamers, knew all along

That whole article is permeated with the idea that there's something wrong when there are videogame genres that men play more than women. In those cases, the gaming audience must be expanded and games should become more inclusive and welcoming to female players. Funny how you never hear that about any other hobbies that are female dominated. You'll never see anyone in the book industry saying that publishers of romance novels should make an effort to bring in more male readers, because they're leaving money on the table if only women read bodice rippers and chicklit.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Depends on the game lol If its smaller game like that Dustborn thing, then sure I agree, anything like that can hurt a game if everything is being done in place of actually making a quality game, but not with something with 2000 or 3000 plus people on board on some of these giant AAA games.

its a post-concord and post-SW Outlaws world (not to mention all the high profile hollywood flops), so this idea of being "too big to fail" doesn't pass anymore.

Its not like at Bioware some person is telling a programmer "ok, so make that boss suck, cause this game is woke so...make it boring as much as you can" lol

It can 100% happen: "Make all bosses and combat easier, hard games are ableist"

but with the core gameplay, core design, I don't really buy someone having those views magically fucking makes a game have glitches or bad programing or some shit as this is just irrelevant to those jobs, when you work at a massive company, just cause someone has this type of view or the other, doesn't mean 100%, every last person thinks that way and even if they did, that wouldn't suddenly make their job this impossible thing

Just recently we saw an interview on how toxic positivity is completely ruining Ubisoft workplace (and i doubt that's only them), with everyone walking on eggshells afraid of what they can say or even if saying nothing will get them in trouble. And yes, that type of environment can completely fuck up the work flow, and by extension affect things like core design or overall quality of the software. This is 100% related to woke culture.

 

[miklonus]

There was no victory; you cannot engineer INDIFFERENCE.

It failed because the SW franchise has been run into the ground over the past decade and the game simply didn't look interesting or exciting.

This, this, mothafuckin' this. Why are people acting like a Ubisoft Staw Wars game, in 2024, was going to be good? It flopping was an expectation. Panther calls this a rare victory and doesn't reference Concord? The fuck?

 

[PeteBull]

That whole article is permeated with the idea that there's something wrong when there are videogame genres that men play more than women. In those cases, the gaming audience must be expanded and games should become more inclusive and welcoming to female players. Funny how you never hear that about any other hobbies that are female dominated. You'll never see anyone in the book industry saying that publishers of romance novels should make an effort to bring in more male readers, because they're leaving money on the table if only women read bodice rippers and chicklit.

We are straight males, bro, we are taken for granted in a gaming industry.

We are like that loyal cubical Carl who works for same company for 20years+, never complains, silently takes in all the abuse, gets no or barely any rises and has worst parking spot.
Big publishers are on a lookout for other audience nowadays and when we have audacity of not liking their terrible and straight offputting products best we can hope for is getting namecalled and put all the blame on .

Luckily for us tho- we decide how we spend our hard earned money, so msg to all those clown world CEO's including mr Ives

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

That whole article is permeated with the idea that there's something wrong when there are videogame genres that men play more than women. In those cases, the gaming audience must be expanded and games should become more inclusive and welcoming to female players. Funny how you never hear that about any other hobbies that are female dominated. You'll never see anyone in the book industry saying that publishers of romance novels should make an effort to bring in more male readers, because they're leaving money on the table if only women read bodice rippers and chicklit.

The article is probably the exact kind of crap execs are eating up hence the 'diversification' of video games.

But when you try to appeal to everyone, you actually appeal to no one.

Ultimately make games people will enjoy and people will buy (eg Space Marine 2, Wukong), as opposed to tick boxing and fulfilling categories for the sake of it (eg Concord, Star Wars Outlaws).

 

[RickSanchez]

The funny thing is that Ubisoft's reputation itself will be a roadblock for many normies (myself included) to buy this game.

Ubisoft open world games are famously copy-pasted from the same formula. The Avatar game basically turned out to be Far Cry: Pandora. So people who are used to the Ubi formula are expecting Star Wars Outlaws to be the same way. Which means they'll just wait a few months to get the game on a decent discount.

The reason they are not buying right now has nothing to do with politics or the main characters looks. The reason is simply Ubisoft's track record. Many people who buy this game on a discount later may even end up liking it, but will still think it was never worth full price, which it looks like it isn't.

I am in the same boat. I actually want to play this game, and i will probably enjoy it, but only when i get it for much cheaper.

 

[Krathoon]

What cracks me up is that no one at all defended the flop that was Redfall.

It was absurdly obvious they screwed that one up.

That was a case where the developers massively messed up.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

The hilarious thing about his statement is this:

Let's assume he was right, it was the incels.

If there is a group of customers that can tank a AAA game project that cost hundreds of millions in a Star Wars universe...shouldn't you try to cater to this group? They kinda look like an important consumer group?

 

[DeepEnigma]

The hilarious thing about his statement is this:

Let's assume he was right, it was the incels.

If there is a group of customers that can tank a AAA game project that cost hundreds of millions in a Star Wars universe...should you try to cater to this group? They kinda look like an important consumer group?

Bingo. This is how they end up looking ignorant, and this dude claims to be an analyst.

 

[Jetpac]

Skip Steam, get creamed

Oh noooez I had to double click on a different icon. The rage!

 

[Jaybe]

 

[JimmyRustler]

It’s pure satire at this point that these people living in their bubble throw slurs to everybody else at this point. Insane what the media landscape has grown into. They are completely detached from reality.

 

[Hyet]

So, this game sold 1 million, I assume the incels are the remaining billions of people that didn't bought it? Fascinating demography here.

I didn't thought the game looked bad at all, I was mildly interested in it but: 1) Very few releases can compete with my backlog 2) it didn't do anything to stand out besides being a franchise game 3) came out unfinished

All of this factors boil down to Ubi failing to live up in a very competitive market.

Secondly there's the adherence to the star wars brand, that has been uncontrollably spiraling downwards. Respawn was able to smartly use the brand to serve the older, more numerous fans, while Ubi went with a more Disney era approach, that has proved unsuccessful time and time again. When you are buying a license you are buying access to that brand customer base. EA understood that. Ubi just thought they could pick what parts of the brand they wanted to work with and the star wars crowd would be there for it just because it had some budget behind it.

 

[PeteBull]

It’s pure satire at this point that these people living in their bubble throw slurs to everybody else at this point. Insane what the media landscape has grown into. They are completely detached from reality.

Media follows the money, especially every big outlet, they are paid by publishers, just indirectly, with all kinds of ad space and previewers/reviewers bonuses/trips etc, thats why gamers learned they arent trustworthy anymore and steam reviews or even user review from metacritic gives us better idea of game's quality than 90% of actual reviews done by "professional" journos.

 

[BigBeauford]

Again, they can play, 2+ years after launch or/and boyfriends/brothers/fathers game copies, true question is buying 70$ games at launch.
Edit:
Here very recent super woke/feminist article/survey, from march 2024

For women playing video games, it’s (still) a man’s world

Is the video game industry leaving half the population underserved? For women in gaming, it's (still) a man's world.

www2.deloitte.com

Even there they admit obvious truth we, gamers, knew all along

You mean wine_mom1977 isn't putting down Candy Crush to buy these AAA games for everyone?

 

[JimmyRustler]

Media follows the money, especially every big outlet, they are paid by publishers, just indirectly, with all kinds of ad space and previewers/reviewers bonuses/trips etc, thats why gamers learned they arent trustworthy anymore and steam reviews or even user review from metacritic gives us better idea of game's quality than 90% of actual reviews done by "professional" journos.

Well, we‘ll see if they actually learned. I hope Concord and Outlaws are just the beginning.

 

[Raven117]

I don't think its all due to that, I think its combination of things, the game being bad and woke, doesn't mean the woke made the game bad lol

Could have just been a bad game in general lol

I don' t think what you are saying is directly related to something being good or bad in terms of game design.

Its likes saying "oh look at BG3, records sales for the team, large number of awards...WOKE = SUCCESS" lol and then be like "WOW Raven, you can't tell me you don't see the correlation here" lol

Its trying to force this idea that that "woke" or "anti-woke" is the leading cause of any success or failure.

I think its related sure, however I'm not going to jump into this "sucks cause woke, awesome cause non-woke"

Didn't say its all due to that. I said that they are correlated. Maybe its just because the gaming industry kinda blows right now and the "woke" stuff is just along for the shitty ride. Maybe its because the people designing these things are trying to be "woke," but are failing to make compelling games because their priorities are to push an agenda. Maybe its a mix of all of it.

You are claiming that BG3 is "woke," but its not really. What I think people mean by WOKE is when its clear the game (and its story/characters) are designed merely to be a conduit for "the message." BG3 is not that. There was no conduit for "the message." It was a kick ass game first and foremost with some options that appealed to different types of folks. That isn't woke.

 

[Raven117]

Even there they admit obvious truth we, gamers, knew all along

You mean wine_mom1977 isn't putting down Candy Crush to buy these AAA games for everyone?

They knew that more than anyone. Why do you think we are getting the games we are now? They are desperately trying to bring the "Candy Crush" audience into the live service/70 bucks a pop ecosystem. Thats a growth market they want. But they are realizing that (1) not only are they failing to bring over that audience, (2) they are alienating their core audience. Mix in that they are chasing a trend that can't sustain more that a handful (at most) games that are just grinding, and wham...you have yourself a real bad time.

 

[Neon Xenon]

From what I recall of Michael Pachter, this particular stupid statement is par for the course of Michael Pachter making stupid statements on things. Maybe it's just that this one is so much dumber than what he's said in the past.

I will say that the reaction from some people to look at Star Wars: Outlaws not meeting expectations and just say shit like "it was the incels " instead of looking at any other possible factor (Ubisoft's involvement, lack of interest in Star Wars in general, etc.), says so much about where their minds are. (Up their own asses.)

 

[Edgelord79]

“Professional critics”.

 

[Renoir]

I guess this is now the default way out of making games that tank.
Make a shitty game that the majority of players don't want to play, all the while you had all the information, infrastructures and resources to make a better game.
You made a game for a particular audience. That audience maybe bought it. But that was like 11 people on twitter. Now you big mad.
Mind you this been happening in movies as well.
"if you dont like it dont buy it" all the people did was listen to what you told them to do.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Maybe it was a boring stealth game?

Star Wars game.

- stealthy, instead of action based
- female lead character made fun of in memes looking frumpy when the real actress is good looking
- some hilarious clips of buggy gameplay and enemy AI

Geez Louise. I never knew sales would be kind of shitty!

 

[Games of Today]

No, NOOOO it's definitely not because the animations are worse than Assassins Creed 3 or anything.

It's pretty much the same will all Ubisoft games after AC Unity, that was the last time they tried and it was also the hardest they ever tried. The environments look great, lighting is decent and everything else comes last.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The thing I don't get about this attitude from the industry is what goal is accomplished by calling everyone who doesn't buy a game incel, bigot, sexist, misogynist, transphobe, etc?

Do they live in a world where people will say "Oh no I better prove I'm not any of these things by spending money on things I'm told to!!"

Because that's a level of delusion I can't possibly fathom. In a capitalist system, people spend money on things they actually want to buy. No one can force them to buy things they don't want

 

[Umbral]

Incel in their get-out-of-being-taken-serious-as-a-person-free-card.

 

[Kacho]

PeteBull going ham in here with truthfacts. WATCH OUT!

 

[Jigsaah]

How about the game is bad?

 

[Sybrix]

 

[Randall365]

How about just making games for us nerds dumb enough to actually fork out money for this shit, rather than chasing and pandering to an imaginary audience that couldn’t give a shit about a sci fi franchise? Would that be ‘wealth management’ advice?

Lesson over Ubi.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[Kacho]

LMAO

To be fair, they are likely fixing this. The game was not ready to ship in August.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Wait the Stormtroopers are a bunch of women too?

 

[Kacho]

Wait the Stormtroopers are a bunch of women too?

Yep. Like 70% from what I've seen. Not many people seem to care, but it kills the immersion for me because it's not the Star Wars I grew up with. My brain rejects the obvious modern dayism.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

That whole article is permeated with the idea that there's something wrong when there are videogame genres that men play more than women. In those cases, the gaming audience must be expanded and games should become more inclusive and welcoming to female players. Funny how you never hear that about any other hobbies that are female dominated. You'll never see anyone in the book industry saying that publishers of romance novels should make an effort to bring in more male readers, because they're leaving money on the table if only women read bodice rippers and chicklit.

Yup. And a key reason why other companies in other industries dont go ape shit trying to make a one size fits all product is because they are smart enough to make many brands and products. That publisher will make tons of books covering lots of subjects covering guys and gals. Game makers are so amped up on the Fortnite lottery jackpot, they try to make their AAA game as mass appealish as possible hoping every person remotely interested in that game genre buys it whether it's men/women, old/young, white guy/minority. And they dont think about repercussions. Some games can click with mass appeal, but hard to do when it's entertainment. Easy to do if youre trying to sell a family milk or eggs. But some game companies just throw everything in hoping it clicks. I dont play From Software games, but I can totally understand their focus on Souls like games. They know how to focus on certain kinds of games, make them quality with no politics and sells and reviews well.

Men and women are wired different and have different interests.

There were charts years ago showing what % of men/women play different genres.

Some genres like sports, shooters and fighting games were like 3% women. I dont think any even hit 5%. But then puzzle games were like 70%.

(Found it as I did a google search and got lucky. https://quanticfoundry.com/2017/01/19/female-gamers-by-genre/)

Video gaming is so heavily male based, almost every genre skews men. And even the cutesy puzzle and family genres are still 31% men.

I totally get what game makers are trying to do. One part weird politics, but also one part catering games to women hoping net gamers are a windfall gain. If one male gamer leave, but they get two women to buy their shooter or action game, it's a net gain of one purchase. But it doesn't work that way because men and women arent interchangeable like that. For every female gained for a male dominated genre by doing dumb shit, you probably lose two male gamers (ie. Outlaws).

One telling stat which correlates perfectly is the most competitive/MP/adrenaline pumping genres skew highest with guys. Women avoid those genres like the plagued. The cuter, slower and less competitive skew better with women.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Yep. Like 70% from what I've seen. Not many people seem to care, but it kills the immersion for me because it's not the Star Wars I grew up with. My brain rejects the obvious modern dayism.

That's crazy. The crackly storm trooper helmet voices were iconic, "these aren't the droids we're looking for", "it's them, blast 'em!"

 

[Bernardougf]

Speaking of AAA/AA console/pc games

my mother and sisters dosent give a fuck about games.. my 27 years old girlfriend and all their friends dosent give a fuck about games.. my ex-wife and their friends didnt give a fuck about games.. my 13 years old daughter and all her friends dosent give a fuck about games.

I (41) love games, my friends love games, my 11 year old son and all of his friends loves games, my nephew loves games his farher loves games and so on...

So this fake 50% bullshit number because occasionally a woman will play mobile tetris or angry birds is just comical... more comical is a full professional company developing some AAA console/pc game with this faked number in mind.

 

[EDMIX]

You are claiming that BG3 is "woke," but its not really. What I think people mean by WOKE is when its clear the game (and its story/characters) are designed merely to be a conduit for "the message." BG3 is not that. There was no conduit for "the message."

LOL, LMFAO even

Sir, how the do you even know any of this at this point? So say a game with different genders, able to change the sex separate from it, able to have gay sex, straight sex, sex with fucking animals, but fuck me, its NOT what you see as "woke" but shit The Last Of Us 2 is woke cause she makes a joke about a 'bigot sandwich"? At this point, I'm not even trying ot be funny, WOKE seems to be what ever you seem to hate and when a game happens to have this shit in it, if you like it, you try to desperately change the term or omit it from this conversation or claim its not, cause you happen to like it.

Raven, give me a fucking break man.

For all the shit folks on here claim is "woke" with barely any evidence, we are not going to sit here and now claim a game with this much shit it in, is now not "woke".

Thats like fucking saying its not a horror movie by genre cause I wasn't scared.

It seems like this claim can be thrown around on anything folks hate, but shit if its a "kick ass" game, then I'm sure you can ignore all of the elements you fucking call woke in other games, but holy heavens, better not apply it to game you like.

Sure =)

 

[Raven117]

LOL, LMFAO even

Sir, how the do you even know any of this at this point? So say a game with different genders, able to change the sex separate from it, able to have gay sex, straight sex, sex with fucking animals, but fuck me, its NOT what you see as "woke" but shit The Last Of Us 2 is woke cause she makes a joke about a 'bigot sandwich"? At this point, I'm not even trying ot be funny, WOKE seems to be what ever you seem to hate and when a game happens to have this shit in it, if you like it, you try to desperately change the term or omit it from this conversation or claim its not, cause you happen to like it.

Raven, give me a fucking break man.

For all the shit folks on here claim is "woke" with barely any evidence, we are not going to sit here and now claim a game with this much shit it in, is now not "woke".

Thats like fucking saying its not a horror movie by genre cause I wasn't scared.

It seems like this claim can be thrown around on anything folks hate, but shit if its a "kick ass" game, then I'm sure you can ignore all of the elements you fucking call woke in other games, but holy heavens, better not apply it to game you like.

Sure =)

Do you not see HOW games go about things is what trips over into “woke?”

Woke for most people is when it’s forced down their throat as “the message.” Not the simple inclusion of of options.

BG3 nothing was forced. (And truth be told, I didn’t like BG3 very much, but it had nothing to do with “woke.”)

I’m also agreeing that woke by itself is enough to swing things one way or another. But it does seem to correlate that bland games (and movies) often have high levels of “wokeness.”
(You also seem to not be in America… which… unfortunately… is the epicenter of this).

If you can’t see the difference Then… okay. We are done here.

 

[mckmas8808]

The hilarious thing about his statement is this:

Let's assume he was right, it was the incels.

If there is a group of customers that can tank a AAA game project that cost hundreds of millions in a Star Wars universe...shouldn't you try to cater to this group? They kinda look like an important consumer group?

This is why Pachter is so horrible! His logic is terrible.

 

[John Marston]

Yep. Like 70% from what I've seen. Not many people seem to care, but it kills the immersion for me because it's not the Star Wars I grew up with. My brain rejects the obvious modern dayism.

I played about 7 hours and can confirm this.
I'm an open minded fella but that is just irritating.

However I do enjoy the world they created. It really feels Star Warsy

 

[laynelane]

"professional critics"

I've been enjoying this idea that random people writing for various media sites are somehow "professional" at writing reviews. They're so good at their jobs that many people no longer trust them and look to their peers and Youtube for impressions and reviews of games. So many gaming companies are just like Pachter in this matter - they don't realize or want to accept that there is no such thing as professional critics. It there was, then more people would have listened to those "mostly solid reviews". Instead such information is simply used to insist that a game nobody bought or cared about was actually really good ie. Outlaws would have sold well if it weren't for those meddling incels.

 

[Comandr]

The most upsetting thing here is this 114 pound girl is three-hit bare fist knocking out these trained soldiers wearing full head helmets?

 

[EDMIX]

Do you not see HOW games go about things is what trips over into “woke?”

Woke for most people is when it’s forced down their throat as “the message.” Not the simple inclusion of of options.

BG3 nothing was forced. (And truth be told, I didn’t like BG3 very much, but it had nothing to do with “woke.”)

I’m also agreeing that woke by itself is enough to swing things one way or another. But it does seem to correlate that bland games (and movies) often have high levels of “wokeness.”
(You also seem to not be in America… which… unfortunately… is the epicenter of this).

If you can’t see the difference Then… okay. We are done here.

You are not forced do anything in Dragon Age and its being called woke, you can change how your character looks in Andromeda and that was called woke literally based on just the default shown in the trailers, Ghost Of Yotei is being called woke, not even for anything in the game, merely based on a damn person voice acting the game.

Woke for most people is when it’s forced down their throat as “the message.

Sir, you can argue the fucking shit in BG3 is the same thing man, we have folks who made a big deal out of that making it sound like characters hitting on them was a "message"

If you feel something is forced, that is your opinion, but others clearly made that claim about a lot of games, like they are even doing with the new Ghost title. No one fucking forced anyone to look up who that was and start going thru their tweets bud, what I see people calling "woke" seems to many times even have nothing to do with the game, but the people who work on the game too lol

BG3 nothing was forced

Oh, Dragon Age Veilguard has nothing FORCED in it, you can creator your character and its an option.

So not "woke" everyone, glad we got that out of the way.

Go in the Dragon Age threads btw and let them know its not "woke" now, you solved this whole thing =) lol

On your way there, go to the Ghost Of Yotei threads too, let them know its not "woke", cause you can change the settings for voices, she is just an actor etc and you solved this whole thing lol


Good luck with that Raven.

 

[Raven117]

You are not forced do anything in Dragon Age and its being called woke, you can change how your character looks in Andromeda and that was called woke literally based on just the default shown in the trailers, Ghost Of Yotei is being called woke, not even for anything in the game, merely based on a damn person voice acting the game.




Sir, you can argue the fucking shit in BG3 is the same thing man, we have folks who made a big deal out of that making it sound like characters hitting on them was a "message"

If you feel something is forced, that is your opinion, but others clearly made that claim about a lot of games, like they are even doing with the new Ghost title. No one fucking forced anyone to look up who that was and start going thru their tweets bud, what I see people calling "woke" seems to many times even have nothing to do with the game, but the people who work on the game too lol


Oh, Dragon Age Veilguard has nothing FORCED in it, you can creator your character and its an option.

So not "woke" everyone, glad we got that out of the way.

Go in the Dragon Age threads btw and let them know its not "woke" now, you solved this whole thing =) lol

On your way there, go to the Ghost Of Yotei threads too, let them know its not "woke", cause you can change the settings for voices, she is just an actor etc and you solved this whole thing lol


Good luck with that Raven.

It’s all opinion man. Absolutely none of this is fact.

Don’t know enough about GoY to know if it’s woke. It’s all HOW they develop her character and story. You are just as dense as the people you decry. You see it. You see it in movies and games that there is correlation. If you don’t… you are an ignorant moron. And you don’t strike me as a moron.

I don’t need luck. It’s a video game. I buy ones I think look good. (Like ghost). I don’t buy ones that dont (like concord).

 

[Balducci30]

Played it. It just wasn’t very good? Star Wars has been over saturated lately. And in this game you don’t even get to be a Jedi - and the things you can do like shooting and stealth are not fun. I don’t think it has anything to do with politics

 

[KURDISTAN YPG]

His the type of guy to drive his wife to her boyfriend house this clown being wrong on everythibg