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Michael Patcher: SW Outlaws tanking is a "rare incel victory"
- Thread starter MDSLKTR
- Start date
Mossybrew
Banned
I've mentioned before this game really would have benefited from a Mass Effect style pick a male or female protagonist, with character creator. I think that would have earned more initial interest. But that still wouldn't help the game's jank-ass outdated stealth mechanics and basic gunplay.
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Maybe there is nothing controversial, but it's still a dull soulless ubislop conveyer. That's why it doesn't sell, people grow tired of it.
BigBeauford
Member
Natsuko
Member
Good for you. But it doesn't change the fact that this is not simply an incel problem. And the games industry doesn't work according to the motto ‘take a woman, then the women will buy it’. I doubt that it works differently with people of colour, for example. They probably won't buy every piece of crap just because a PoC is the protagonist. Western games have problems nowadays.
And believing you only have to be diverse enough seems to be one of them. Wanting to appeal to some (supposedly) underrepresented target group with a protagonist is not enough if you otherwise only deliver the same monotonous stuff that you have been delivering for years and that half the western industry now seems to consider a good template. Thanks there are tons of games with woman as a protagonist. No woman today has to be so desperate to play a woman that she has to buy the next best game with a woman as the main character.
And that was exactly my point with the reference to my gender. This is an attempt to pretend that incels are to blame for a flop. Are they? People like to shout a lot and haters are usually particularly loud. Basic marketing. Satisfied customers don't trumpet this to the world all the day. They enjoy the product and are more quietly.
Hogwarts Legacy had a loud debate because of the polarising author of the books. Kingdom Come Deliverance was accused of racism and so were the game's developers. When developers started putting more female protagonists in games (apart from pick your gender), there were umpteen heated debates as to why they should do this to people.
It's a bad and cheap way to argue that it's a few angry incels that are causing the game to flop. There's this nice screenshot of the MW2 boycott story. We have a saying here: dogs that bark don't bite. Especially as not everyone who posts somewhere would have been a buyer at all. I know enough of the kind who like to shout very loudly, but can barely afford a console and Gamepass.
bender
What time is it?
Smart. It’s better to treat those cum stains right away rather than let them settle in your undies.
tommib
Banned
Mommy issues.
DannyDanger
Member
Pachter is known to predict the exact opposite of reality soooo...
Bernardougf
Member
Purple alert.
West Texas CEO
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
I can b your daddy
Natsuko
Member
Don’t preface all of your posts with “as a woman.” No one cares, and no one knows if it’s true. We don’t do that nonsense here.
A few hands are enough for that. People who feel triggered by a mentioned gender are not necessarily the hottest fish in the pond.
Ironically, the starting point of this thread is tied to a gender, as there is a definition for incel. Boo hoo and then the nasty woman comes along and says it's not just an incel problem.
Fun fact: About half of gamers are female gamers. If the game is otherwise so great, couldn't women have just bought it? Or isn't that the only problem? You could get the idea that this isn't an incel problem.
West Texas CEO
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief and Nosiest Dildo Archeologist
In my case, I would disagree.
Audiophile
Member
Make shit, eat shit.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Rambone
Member
Too much soy in their diet, they are becoming emotional and irrational.
Trilobit
Member
As a man I avoid soymilk despite liking the taste. It makes me emotional. True story. Not taking any chances despite the lack of scientific studies.
PeteBull
Member
U got a point overall, but in this sentence even tho its true when it comes to all gamers in the world- we talking buying AAA(so big budget 70$) games at launch, its mainly straight males.Fun fact: About half of gamers are female gamers. If the game is otherwise so great, couldn't women have just bought it? Or isn't that the only problem? You could get the idea that this isn't an incel problem.
SW Outflaws was targeted to women(strong independed woman as protagonist, uglyfied on purpose vs her mocap actress, 0 sex-man fanservice, 0 blood/proper voilence which we- guys need/want/love, cutesy pet which we mostly dont give a damn;p), but majority of women dont buy 70$ games at launch, unlike us, guys, hence big flop
And yes i know u are woman, play a lot and post on gaf, but u are like male nanny or house "husband", crazy rare exception confirming the rule, we speaking here about majority of men/women, not super rare exceptions
For comparision that is a game that targets straight males:
In todays gaming reality no big publisher or even midsize one would dare to give that to us, back in 2010 tho even woke af sony did, and in 2015 remaster too
Trilobit
Member
And yes i know u are woman, play a lot and post on gaf, but u are like male nanny or house "husband", crazy rare exception confirming the rule, we speaking here about majority of men/women, not super rare exceptions
lefty1117
Gold Member
The backlash doesn't match what I played, and based on many of the posts around the net when it came out the anti-woke backlash was a real thing. To claim it wasn't or didn't impact sales is silly. Whether it was enough of an impact to dramatically affect numbers, who knows, but I'd guess industry analysts are better placed to make a guess on that than most people around here. They've already committed to updating some of the actual gameplay issues that have been raised, but I'm guessing that won't shift things much. Let's hope they learn some of the gameplay lessons and do another game.
Crayon
Member
U got a point overall, but in this sentence even tho its true when it comes to all gamers in the world- we talking buying AAA(so big budget 70$) games at launch, its mainly straight males.
SW Outflaws was targeted to women(strong independed woman as protagonist, uglyfied on purpose vs her mocap actress, 0 sex-man fanservice, 0 blood/proper voilence which we- guys need/want/love, cutesy pet which we mostly dont give a damn;p), but majority of women dont buy 70$ games at launch, unlike us, guys, hence big flop
And yes i know u are woman, play a lot and post on gaf, but u are like male nanny or house "husband", crazy rare exception confirming the rule, we speaking here about majority of men/women, not super rare exceptions
For comparision that is a game that targets straight males:
In todays gaming reality no big publisher or even midsize one would dare to give that to us, back in 2010 tho even woke af sony did, and in 2015 remaster too
I think the 50% stat is hugely misleading, but there are way, way more women playing traditional games than there used to be. It was pretty rare when I was a kid but not as much now. My wife does nails and she's talking about bg3 with random girls constantly. They love it.
She's shown PS5 launch sets, an incredible MGS set that I have to try to get a pic of and show you guys some time, tons Nintendo stuff of course, and right now she's making a bunch of press-ons for Astarion-themed nails because one of the bg3 reddits had a bunch of people who wanted them.
It's just so different now. With "real games", it's still way more men but women aren't nearly as uncommon as they were before.
iQuasarLV
Member
Sadly as much of the industry has said. BG3 was not the normal game release. I am so glad women are loving this type of game as it caters to all personalities. Its just sad that we don't see a more active scene because its like guys in the 90s socially taboo to acknowledge it. We know they are out there.
Nydius
Member
Or that their much ballyhooed cartel system turned out to be utterly pointless. They made it sound like you had to be careful about the jobs you did because you didn't want to piss off the other syndicates. Yeah, about that. I got all four to excellent reputation before the final sequence of the game without trying, which rendered the entire thing moot. Other than the very beginning where you're thrown into the first story-based choice between syndicates, I never dropped into "Poor" reputation status. And what were the grand rewards for this system? A handful of cosmetics and some vendor discounts. Wooooooooooooooooo.
The main character being female - or even the controversy around her appearance - was the least of this game's issues.
At least for me.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Perhaps a far right victory for AC Shadows next?
This maybe one of the DUMBEST things Pachter has ever said. And that's saying something! He thinks a mere 10,000 "Incels" took down a $150-$200 million Ubisoft Starwars game? Driven by anti-DEI backlash?!
He truly is an idiot of the purest form.
EverydayBeast
ChatGPT 0.1
Feels like the size of the Star Wars universe is open for anything and yet its size is its kryptonite, a lot of people don’t know about Jedi survival which was awesome.
I haven't seen anywhere near the sort of "anti-DEI outrage" across the internet at large for Outlaws as a game on the whole compared to other recent high profile titles. Mostly just making fun of the main character's appearance, which wouldn't be a dealbreaker if people thought the game was worth buying for the real reasons people buy games.This maybe one of the DUMBEST things Pachter has ever said. And that's saying something! He thinks a mere 10,000 "Incels" took down a $150-$200 million Ubisoft Starwars game? Driven by anti-DEI backlash?!
He truly is an idiot of the purest form.
digdug2
Member
Michael Pachter has been talking out of his ass for a very long time, and this is no different. The man sets out to be inflammatory and makes wild and outrageously incorrect predictions about things.
Remember that time that he said that, "PlayStation is doomed and won't exist in 10 years?"
Remember that time that he said that, "PlayStation is doomed and won't exist in 10 years?"
PeteBull
Member
She plays ur games, bro, she wont spend 70$ at launch for SW Outlaws tho, even tho game was heavily pandered to women, hence like i said, its not about %age of female players overall, its about them willing to spend cash on full priced AAA games at launch, super rare for females to do it unless its specific title, think sims,animal crossing and very few selected titles
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
This maybe one of the DUMBEST things Pachter has ever said. And that's saying something! He thinks a mere 10,000 "Incels" took down a $150-$200 million Ubisoft Starwars game? Driven by anti-DEI backlash?!
He truly is an idiot of the purest form.
Pachter's comments brings us all back to Bill Burr's comments on women sports leagues energy. For the sake of argument, since he is using the gaslighting "it contains a woman as the reason." Mainly the part where men are to blame when they try to make things more appealing to women or the "modern audience." Why aren't the supposed "50% of gamers are women" stepping up then? Could it be those numbers are just heavily skewed since they count Candy Crush into that bullshit stat? Where is the modern audience?
So in the end, men are still to blame? Your target audience? Not modern audience?
It's an exercise in lunacy.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
I think this same thing happened with the last Captain Marvel movie. Basically telling guys the movie wasn't for them when the audience for Marvel movies is generally ~70% male.
Will we ever see the end of products made for an audience that doesn't exist?
Elfstar
Member
The point is not that incels won, it's that mainstream audiences' tastes are way more in line with what chuddies want.
Normal people like beautiful attractive people in their entertainment, normal people like sexyness, normal people don't like to be preached, male teens in a male-based franchise mostly want to play as male badasses.
Burying your head into the sand, closing yourself into your echochamber pretending that basic human behavior and needs aren't a thing and that they just come from deranged, toxic loud virgin minorities is insanely delusional.
Normal people like beautiful attractive people in their entertainment, normal people like sexyness, normal people don't like to be preached, male teens in a male-based franchise mostly want to play as male badasses.
Burying your head into the sand, closing yourself into your echochamber pretending that basic human behavior and needs aren't a thing and that they just come from deranged, toxic loud virgin minorities is insanely delusional.
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Crayon
Member
She plays ur games, bro, she wont spend 70$ at launch for SW Outlaws tho, even tho game was heavily pandered to women, hence like i said, its not about %age of female players overall, its about them willing to spend cash on full priced AAA games at launch, super rare for females to do it unless its specific title, think sims,animal crossing and very few selected titles
Err no. You are making conclusions with a poverty of information.
She bought bg3 on PS5. Players it twice. On the morning she beat it the second time, she went straight out and bought dd2. Beat that (disappointed, apparently), then double dipped bg3 on steam to play with mods. Sure, I buy way more games but I don't play most of them. :/
The closest thing to a "girl game" I've seen her buy was Pokemon snap but that actually was more of a nostalgia hit.
And I don't think any of us are spending $70 on SWO.
Now a question. This thing about women only playing their man's games - is it supposed to be because they don't have money or what?
I mean let's take the same method out of entertainment and apply to it something simple.
If I'm a company that sells dog biscuits, and I'm selling a lot, I'm doing well. Then one day I decide to not make dog biscuits, I'll make cat treats instead. My sales crash.
Logically who should I "blame"? Do I blame the dog owners for not buying cat treats? No that's ridiculous, I'm making a product that's not for them! Do I blame the cat owners for not turning up and buying my product? Maybe, partially, I was told this audience is huge and that's what they wanted. Or do I blame those who told me that cat treats are the modern audience? Or even be an adult and blame myself for turning my back on my popular audience?
Currently we seem to be in the phase of the gaming media and journalists blaming the dog owners.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Which is funny, because they're admitting that they're the minority and the majority does not subscribe to their brand of lunacy. Yet they push it as if they're the majority prior to being punched in the nose, metaphorically speaking.
I think they have "logical dysmorphia."
Zacfoldor
Member
Goes to show you how much of an imposter everyone actually is at their job.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
In “security analyst” jobs you don’t produce anything real, so you can easily be an imposter as long as you can convince people to buy your snake oil
Yes, every other industry works like this: determine market demographics and profiles, solve a problem/desire for target demographic by building a product or service, profit.
Video game industry today: beat consumers over the head with something they've told you they don't want, blame them for not buying it, call them chuds and incels.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
That may be oversimplifying unless the dog biscuit company has been infiltrated by a cult-like group of cat worshippers who believe that their love of cats supersedes profits.
PeteBull
Member
Im superhappy for u and ur wifey, bro, but u said it urself, u nor her wont buy SW:O at full price, maybe somewhere down the line at decent discount, hell i might too since im huge SW fan(Darth Jar Jar 4ever in my hearth;p ).
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Media companies in general.
The only industry where if products fail, the CEO, or director or even avg joe desk jobber goes on social media or does Q&A saying it's the customer's fault.
Name one other industry that has this kind of anti-customer vitriol.
Omnipunctual Godot
Gold Member
Findom is the only thing that comes to mind.
a. the game has a lot of issues
b. even critics, who don't even mention DEI stuff with a single word, point those out
c. maybe the open world hype has hit a plateau or is even declining?
d. if you think some troll meta critics are responsible for poor sales or expectations you're ignorant and shouldn't have any lead position because you'll make poor decisions a lot of jobs are dependent on.
b. even critics, who don't even mention DEI stuff with a single word, point those out
c. maybe the open world hype has hit a plateau or is even declining?
d. if you think some troll meta critics are responsible for poor sales or expectations you're ignorant and shouldn't have any lead position because you'll make poor decisions a lot of jobs are dependent on.
Crayon
Member
I ain't fuckin with that game at any price!
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I had to google what that is. lol
Zacfoldor
Member
Let's do a thought experiment. Let's say Pachter is 100% correct that "we" did this and "we" have this power.
That means "we" control the zeitgeist in gaming, correct? Like that's what he's saying.
zeit·geist - the defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history as shown by the ideas and beliefs of the time.
So what I'm saying is that we are a small group. Us alone not buying it didn't tank it obviously, so he's saying we must have some influence on others. So others must get their ideas from us incel trend setters.
So what he is saying is that we incels used the zeitgeist in order to enforce our malevolent agenda on Ubisoft, Sony, and indeed the entire gaming world.
We do this thru(some assumptions here now), influencers, word of mouth, message forums, comments, peer pressure, direct voting with our wallets, technology, and mainly thru pure witty ridicule.
If Pachter is correct, well, hot damn boys, hot damn...
That means "we" control the zeitgeist in gaming, correct? Like that's what he's saying.
zeit·geist - the defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history as shown by the ideas and beliefs of the time.
So what I'm saying is that we are a small group. Us alone not buying it didn't tank it obviously, so he's saying we must have some influence on others. So others must get their ideas from us incel trend setters.
So what he is saying is that we incels used the zeitgeist in order to enforce our malevolent agenda on Ubisoft, Sony, and indeed the entire gaming world.
We do this thru(some assumptions here now), influencers, word of mouth, message forums, comments, peer pressure, direct voting with our wallets, technology, and mainly thru pure witty ridicule.
If Pachter is correct, well, hot damn boys, hot damn...
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That's the caveat in all of this.
Let P represent “Pachter is correct” and Q represent any other statement, such as “the sky is purple.”That's the caveat in all of this.
The implication is:
P → Q
or “If Pachter is correct, then the sky is purple.”
Since P is false (Pachter is never correct), any proposition of the form “If Pachter is correct, then Q” is always true. You can therefore conclude that any propositions involving Pachter are irrelevant because they rely on a false premise, making them vacuously true but meaningless.
Becoming a computer scientist ruins you
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
I think the people in bold are the minority at the moment. There's a special select of the gaming media and journalists that are blaming the "dog owners". Most are just sad that the dog biscuits aren't selling as well as they use to and just want the industry to find a fix, so that their hobby can stay afloat.