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[FightyF]

I've become more and more disenthralled with Nintendo as each generation went by. The only time I was happy with a successor was with the SNES, where I felt I wasn't missing out on much by not having a Genesis (besides some 1st party games).

Now, I feel the same way about the GC. I have one, but if I didn't, I wouldn't miss much besides a handful of first party games. Even the DC had many 3rd party exclusives that other consoles could never offer.

I'll buy a Revolution if it has enticing 1st party games...but not for anything else. For the last 2 generations, a Nintendo console wasn't good for anything else besides Nintendo games. I fear that this trend will continue. Why? Well because the GC was a console that was better than the PS2 in many regards, and developers had no reason (dealing with hardware) to avoid the platform. Yet, you didn't see games like MGS2 being ported to it. Developers had this idea that these games would not be enticing for the GC userbase. And so you saw the trend continue, with SEGA Sports leaving, and other devs cutting GC projects.

This all ties into the original post of this thread. MS has to worry about Sony because they are going after the same user. GC has it's own niche, and can survive on it, as Lost Weekend has mentioned.

And this also ties into why Nintendo is probably happy being #3. They are turning over a profit...it doesn't matter if MS can take more losses and become #2, what does it all mean in the end? Sure, it may mean that MS is becoming more popular...but what matters more, popularity or money?

I think Nintendo chooses money.

 

[GDGF]

In business, I would say money matters more. Bottom line and all that


(I don't mind either way, as I am a happy little Nintendo fan, and a self obsorbed bastard with only my own interests in mind)

 

[Li Mu Bai]

There is no way that the next MS or Nintendo console will outsell the PS3. Their best hope is to cut the already insane gap that the PS2 has created this generation and then hope to overtake Sony in the next generation after that. This is the reality. Anything different than that is just delusional.

She's absolutely correct. Xenon vs. the PS3 talk is laughable.

 

[Teddman]

There is no way that the next MS or Nintendo console will outsell the PS3. Their best hope is to cut the already insane gap that the PS2 has created this generation and then hope to overtake Sony in the next generation after that. This is the reality. Anything different than that is just delusional.

In other startling news, it's going to be sunny in Southern California tomorrow.

 

[NWO]

No Joking in that post.

The nintendo fans are coming out! just like old times.

So MS can barely outsell a peeing console this generation but they expect to win next generation with subpar graphics and less games than Sony?

 

[pcostabel]

But they have teh money1!!$!

 

[GIR]

WOW I'm glad MS has already decided for us the consumers that the next-gen war is between them and Sony. No this all points to MS been scared of Nintendo more than anything else, this is the way I see it, MS is about equal with Nintendo, Sony is number one no question about that, MS want to be number one so they spout out crap like this in a "hey Sony weee luvb you too, see weee hayte neentedo as much as yoos do" so in the publics eye they look just as good as Sony for dissing Nintendo. MindShare.

But I love the way Nintendo is fucked no matter what they do, release before MS, and they'll have a technically inferior product that no one will buy cause its technically inferior, or release after MS and have a graphically superior product that "no one will want to buy" cause they were "late to market"

 

[GaimeGuy]

WOW I'm glad MS has already decided for us the consumers that the next-gen war is between them and Sony. No this all points to MS been scared of Nintendo more than anything else, this is the way I see it, MS is about equal with Nintendo, Sony is number one no question about that, MS want to be number one so they spout out crap like this in a "hey Sony weee luvb you too, see weee hayte neentedo as much as yoos do" so in the publics eye they look just as good as Sony for dissing Nintendo. MindShare.

But I love the way Nintendo is fucked no matter what they do, release before MS, and they'll have a technically inferior product that no one will buy cause its technically inferior, or release after MS and have a graphically superior product that "no one will want to buy" cause they were "late to market"

The sad thing is, you're right. :/

 

[Gorgie]

If the Revolution is all its cracked up to be, with new, fun ways of playing games that attract the mainstream, like DDR, look out Xenon. Nintendo won't have to compete with Xenon as it will have its own market, like the Gameboy right now.

It's too early to call the winners of the next gen fight before it has started, even the PS3 isn't invincible.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Exactly. Everyone thought Nintendo was invincible at one point, too.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

If the Revolution is all its cracked up to be, with new, fun ways of playing games that attract the mainstream, like DDR, look out Xenon. Nintendo won't have to compete with Xenon as it will have its own market, like the Gameboy right now.

It's too early to call the winners of the next gen fight before it has started, even the PS3 isn't invincible.

This worries me about the Revolution. Sure DDR and Eyetoy are popular amongst traditional non-gamers, but they aren't mega-huge sellers of gargantuan proportion (well maybe Eyetoy is). Whatever new feature Revolution beings it would have to be a phenomenon many times what the Eyetoy was to be a viable comeback mechanism, unless Nintendo get the basics right as well.

 

[Mr_Furious]

No matter how you candycoat it, all things point to Nintendo having even more problems next generation.

 

[Greekboy]

It's not "too early" because the PS3 will be the clear winner. Bringing up Nintendo is a poor example.

 

[NWO]

No matter how you candycoat it, all things point to Nintendo having even more problems next generation.

Same thing with MS but everyone LOVES to candycoat it for them.

Worst graphics next gen
No harddrive
No BC
No Japan Support
Launching without Halo
No sales in Japan
The fact that Sony has an inferior console THE SAME PRICE yet they get beat badly every month in sales this gen
Sony's 3rd party support versus Microsoft's leftovers

Somebody please eleborate for me the master plan of MS to overtake first place. Because from the looks of it even if you eliminated Sony this generation that MS would have a problem with Nintendo and Nintendo is NOT in the same league as Sony.

Hell America was suppose to be the "home base" and territory that MS "could" beat Sony in next generation yet they were outsold by the Gamecube in 2003.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Same thing with MS but everyone LOVES to candycoat it for them.

Worst graphics next gen
No harddrive
No BC
No Japan Support
Launching without Halo
No sales in Japan
The fact that Sony has an inferior console THE SAME PRICE yet they get beat badly every month in sales this gen
Sony's 3rd party support versus Microsoft's leftovers

Somebody please eleborate for me the master plan of MS to overtake first place. Because from the looks of it even if you eliminated Sony this generation that MS would have a problem with Nintendo and Nintendo is NOT in the same league as Sony.

Hell America was suppose to be the "home base" and territory that MS "could" beat Sony in next generation yet they were outsold by the Gamecube in 2003.

They have the media (no media oulet shall dare badmoputh Microsoft) and EA behind them. They are a lock in NA.

 

[DCharlie]

"So MS can barely outsell a peeing console this generation but they expect to win next generation with subpar graphics and less games than Sony?"

I'll say it again, i expect close to zero difference in graphics for the next 3 consoles next gen.

And i'll go for the MS takes 3/4 of US and half of Europe and none of japan, Sony takes all of japan, half of europe and 1/4 of US. Sony win, but they'll take a big cut in user base due to the US situation.

 

[Guileless]

I'm sick of getting f#&#d by EA on its Xbox ports. NCAA's slowdown was the last straw. I'm sure as hell not getting a hard drive-less Xenon that is the red headed stepchild of EA Sports. PS3 and Revolution only, thank you. Hell if Nintendo comes up with a controller and memory system that isn't awful for sports games I might not even get a PS3.

 

[DopeyFish]

Same thing with MS but everyone LOVES to candycoat it for them.

Worst graphics next gen
No harddrive
No BC
No Japan Support
Launching without Halo
No sales in Japan
The fact that Sony has an inferior console THE SAME PRICE yet they get beat badly every month in sales this gen
Sony's 3rd party support versus Microsoft's leftovers

Somebody please eleborate for me the master plan of MS to overtake first place. Because from the looks of it even if you eliminated Sony this generation that MS would have a problem with Nintendo and Nintendo is NOT in the same league as Sony.

Hell America was suppose to be the "home base" and territory that MS "could" beat Sony in next generation yet they were outsold by the Gamecube in 2003.

last time i heard, assumptions based on assumptions were the worst kind of assumptions.

 

[jarrod]

And i'll go for the MS takes 3/4 of US and half of Europe and none of japan, Sony takes all of japan, half of europe and 1/4 of US. Sony win, but they'll take a big cut in user base due to the US situation.

That's a bit of a best case scenario considering this generation...

America
PS2: 28 million
XBox: 10 million
GC: 9 million

Europe
PS2: 30 million
XBox: 4 million
GC: 3.5 million

Japan
PS2: 16 million
GC: 3.5 million
XBox: .5 million


....Europe in particular is PlayStation country, no way Xenon manages even 25% of the market there. They've got a good chance in the US but I'd say even 50% marketshare would qualify for a miracle here. Sony is simply too entrenched, though I do think both Xenon and Revolution will manage better than the 15% marketshare XBox and GameCube each earned.

 

[DCharlie]

"That's a bit of a best case scenario considering this generation..."

Disclaimer : previous performance is not a guarantee of future performance.

 

[jarrod]

"That's a bit of a best case scenario considering this generation..."

Disclaimer : previous performance is not a guarantee of future performance.

No but it can give a good indication. I just don't see Xenon getting 50% in Europe (Sony's strongest region by far actually) and 75% in the US, unless Sony suddenly decides to just sit out next gen. 20-30% in Europe and 40-50% in the US I think is the ceiling for Microsoft... and even that seems like a stretch.

 

[cvxfreak]

Japan
PS2: 16 million
GC: 3.5 million
XBox: .5 million

Aren't these numbers at present?

 

[Prine]

Well, MS being ahead of Nintendo without the help of Japan speaks volumes. Something that seemed impossible back in 2001.

Kudos to MS.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

MS is ahead of Nintendo ww by a whopping 1.8% was it? (despite inflated spending & yielding no profits) Yet Nintendo is not to be taken at all seriously, & now MS will somehow face Sony in a head-to head showdown next-gen due to its early release? I seem to remember the Dreamcast launching early as well & showing quite the momentum, even offering online gameplay vs. an onlineless PS2 at the time. (as well as a quality library) The visual differences may not be as substantial next-gen as they are now, but they will nonetheless be there. It's foolish to think otherwise, especially as the systems age & devs start getting "closer to the metal." MS imo, don't have the IPs to compete with Sony, & are struggling with Nintendo despite their moneyhats & timed exclusives. It will be interesting to see, but it's far too early to tell what the overall outcome will be. Also let's not forget, Iwata is at the helm now & not Yamauchi. I see the design of the SP, the capabilities & design of the DS, (I know, Yamauchi's recommendation & idea) the colloborations & partnerships Nintendo was able to secure this gen., we shall see if they can finally strike the proper balance between the broader teen to adult demographic, & the family friendly one.

 

[ge-man]

I don't see what the big deal is. Microsoft is in the industry because of Sony. Nintendo has only been a concern in so much as they crowd the market--Sony's always been their target. The quote isn't too far off if one looks at it from that perspective. Nintendo doesn't help the situation either by hinting at a an unconventional design for their next gen console rather than taking the set-top box route.

Also, I wouldn't be so quick as to wager on the outcome next gen. Companies make mistakes. Trends come and go. The vg industry is affected by the economy like any other industry. There are way too many future unknowns to say either/or with confidence.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

Ummm....ge-man the only thing Nintendo disclosed was an unconventional controller interface iirc. It will still be a set-top box.

 

[DCharlie]

The way i see it is that 3rd party support is the key. This is Nintendo's strength and everyone elses weakness - if someone dangless a big enough carrot in front of devs, then they can swing support if they really want to.

 

[Gahiggidy]

I really wouldn't TV-consoles and Holo-consoles to be in the exact same market.

 

[Li Mu Bai]

I really wouldn't TV-consoles and Holo-consoles to be in the exact same market.

Link to where this is verified Gahiggidy? (referring to the holo tech.) Especially when we know it can connect to monitors, & how would that work?

 

[ge-man]

Ummm....ge-man the only thing Nintendo disclosed was an unconventional controller interface iirc. It will still be a set-top box.

I did say hinting at. I have no idea what they are going to do, and I won't speculate at any length. Nintendo is good about coming out of left field with a concept.

 

[DrGAKMAN]

Well, MS being ahead of Nintendo without the help of Japan speaks volumes. Something that seemed impossible back in 2001.

Kudos to MS.

Well, Nintendo "battling for 2ND" (believe me, MS isn't close to Sony, they're struggling with Nintendo) with MS without strong support from the west speaks volumes. I mean what...how much money does MS have, how much did they spend on X-BOX and how much are they losing??? They had retailers, the media & publishers pretty much in thier pocket before they even launched and not 'cos they were "better" than Nintendo, but 'cos Nintendo ignored them and made mistakes. I'm not making excuses for GAMECUBE, but I am *real* tired of everyone who pats the "newcomer" on the back like as if they're doing good. Nintendo & Microsoft are so neck'n'neck overall that quarter-by-quarter it goes back & forth depending on who you talk to. Not bad for the "old timer" who get literally table scraps from publishers, has no solid online plan, no media support, no retail pressence and who's image is very poor in the eyes of the mainstream...not to mention GAMECUBE has a different developement environment making ports harder, has a smaller disc format and a poor memory card situation. Then the poor advertising and bad moves...it's like...how did MS *not* crush Nintendo??? Not bad for an "old timer" who can, even when they're "limping", stay on par with the big bad MS *and* make a profit to boot.

Kudos to Nintendo.

This generation I think Nintendo & MS both launched thinking they were gonna bowl over the other...they ignored one another. Nintendo, to me, has shown signs of not ignoring the competition for next generation, yet MS (who's Xenon seems alot like GAMECUBE II + a DC headstart) is ignoring Nintendo altogether. I bet they think Nintendo's next console is going to be weaker than GAMECUBE, will have a toy for a controller, be pink in color and shaped like a half frisbe! Boy will MS, and the rest of the industry, be surprized!

 

[SantaC]

Headstart or not, they're both going to get thrashed by the PS3, and at least Nintendo has the fanbase to survive such a thrashing every generation.

Don't forget that MS has the Haloits as fanbase, and they will probably never die.

 

[thom]

Nintendo is still number two, MS hasn't passed them.

As far as them dismissing Nintendo's next console, this is one Revolution that will be televised! Suck it down, MS.

You're a good guy Diave...God, I wish I shared your optimism.

 

[seismologist]

"Thus far interactive gaming has meant an immersive experience, being taken to places you've never been before, seeing characters, experiences you've never seen before; that will continue, that is first and foremost. But interactivity also means how do I interact with my friends, how do I interact with my other media, how do I interact with my PC and how do I interact with that multitude of devices that sit around my home or I take with me?"

That makes is sound like their next console is aiming for the "set top box" market.

 

[Date of Lies]

Now, I feel the same way about the GC. I have one, but if I didn't, I wouldn't miss much besides a handful of first party games. Even the DC had many 3rd party exclusives that other consoles could never offer.

??

3rd Strike?
Power Stone?
Grandia 2?
MDK2?


Soul Calibur was the only one that made a difference. And maybe Code Veronica.

Sorry but the DC had next to no support from 3rd parties. EA peed on them. Konami laughed at them, Square didn't know they existed. It got roughly 1 important game from both Capcom and Namco, but that's it.

DC had next to *no* 3rd party support. No matter how you look at it.



Anyway, the Gamecube, much like the n64, is still the only console for 4-player on-screen action, and if you say ONLIEN>>>>>>multiplayer, then you have no friends.

Well, Xbox has Lan, I guess.

Even if Nintendo is more child-oriented than Microsoft and Sony, there will always be a child market...
Although I know a hell of alot more 10 year olds with Xboxes than gamecubes...

...

 

[DCharlie]

The question is , do people really care about Sony and MS and Nintendo ?
or do they really care about Madden, Halo, FF, Dragon Quest, Mario, GTAuto, Gran Turismo etc?

I think too much stock is put into the loyalty to the console brands, because outside leety gamers, i doubt people really care.

Stick GTA on Xbox 2 or Nintendo Rev only and watch those machines fly...

 

[Acosta]

I think too much stock is put into the loyalty to the console brands, because outside leety gamers, i doubt people really care.

Why is that the people that make sense is always the same?

 

[seismologist]

The question is , do people really care about Sony and MS and Nintendo ?
or do they really care about Madden, Halo, FF, Dragon Quest, Mario, GTAuto, Gran Turismo etc?

I think too much stock is put into the loyalty to the console brands, because outside leety gamers, i doubt people really care.

Stick GTA on Xbox 2 or Nintendo Rev only and watch those machines fly...

I'm sure Nintendo thought that about Resident Evil . The Playstation name carries more weight than you think. Put GTA only on Xbox 2 or Revolution and people will just play something different.

 

[Acosta]

I'm sure Nintendo thought that about Resident Evil . The Playstation name carries more weight than you think. Put GTA only on Xbox 2 or Revolution and people will just play something different..

No, what you are speaking is user base. People didn´t buy PS2 because of RE, but because they liked what it already had.

You can´t expect Resident Evil to change alone the fact that your competitor is some millions units away from you because it had more time in the market and more games in its catalogue.

But at the end, people don´t care about Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft, they care about games. If you wanted RE, but you already had a PS2 when the new jumped and you can only afford one system, it´s clear you are going to stick with the games that offer your system instead of selling it and buy other one for the sole purpose of playing RE.

 

[seismologist]

Well I agree with you. People care about more than one game. That's why one game isn't enough to turn the momentum around. Take away one game and people will just find something different to play.

People dont care about Sony but they care about the Playstation brand because it's traditionally gotten the most support.
If some other console starts getting the most support then it's a different story. Sony would have to screw up pretty badly for that to happen.

They'd need to pull an N64 size blunder and scare all the developers away.

 

[Fafalada]

The way i see it is that 3rd party support is the key.

Well, wasn't it always?
Except that this time around, should we even bother calling it 3rd parties anymore? I mean at the rate they are going, EA will have swallowed half of the market by 2006...

I think too much stock is put into the loyalty to the console brands, because outside leety gamers, i doubt people really care.

I would argue that in order to really care about brands like Halo or Dragon Quest you have to be tilting to the leety side to start with.
Is it my imagination or we've done this argument before though? (what brand carries weight and what not). Anyway, I'd say they complement one another, GTA + PSY > GTA + XBX.

 

[Rhindle]

The question is , do people really care about Sony and MS and Nintendo ?
or do they really care about Madden, Halo, FF, Dragon Quest, Mario, GTAuto, Gran Turismo etc?

I think too much stock is put into the loyalty to the console brands, because outside leety gamers, i doubt people really care.

Stick GTA on Xbox 2 or Nintendo Rev only and watch those machines fly...

Well said. If you have whatever turns out to the next GTA on your console, you win. He who lines up the best support wins. Everything else is just noise.

The corollary is that he who places the largest number of bets has the greatest likelihood of landing the next GTA, and hence of winning.

 

[WARCOCK]

HI MY NAME IS WARCOCK IM 19 YEARS OLD AND HORNY. MY DOG IS CALLED " 1337". ALSO IM CHECKING MY NEW TAG.

 

[Subitai]

Well, I think the one thing MS has going for them is that most major publishers don't want to be beholden to Sony for all their sales. The question now is whether they can leverage this at all. It is easy to forget how hard MS had to work to get publishers to support it the first year, especially in Japan.

I think MS could take a big chunk of Europe if MS has competitive hardware and some must have titles from Rare. Sony doesn't have Europe, EA does. Sony has founded Europe on GTA, GT, and football (soccer). MS has to offer enough incentives to get GTA, EA, and football, market FM to no end, and do everything possible to eliminate time exclusive EA titles. This isn't like past generations where people were chosing based the past performance of Sonic or Mario. The games people bought a PS2 for can usually be found on another system.

Japan is just about hoping to get lucky. I'd seriously consider giving away the console as a thank you to the handful of loyal customers there. The huge exception to what I first mentioned is Square. Japan is FF/DQ land. There's no way around it. They'll be a little better off with some experienced studios, but a smashing success there is still maintaining 500k a year and keeping local talent working on their platform.

 

[DCharlie]

"Well, wasn't it always?'

Sure , but the interesting thing that Nintendo has is that they have an absolute stack load of thier own IP that they can use.

"Except that this time around, should we even bother calling it 3rd parties anymore? I mean at the rate they are going, EA will have swallowed half of the market by 2006..."

Exactly - and with them onboard with XB2 from day one, then this surely adds more weight to the XB2 (?) - well, at least in the west...

"I would argue that in order to really care about brands like Halo or Dragon Quest you have to be tilting to the leety side to start with."

Well, not exactly - i agree on DQ (in the US!) but i think casuals do care about a couple of games

"Is it my imagination or we've done this argument before though? (what brand carries weight and what not)."

Probably!

"Anyway, I'd say they complement one another, GTA + PSY > GTA + XBX."

I'd disagree - i think with a game like a new GTA game that it will shift whichever console it launched on. I think it carries equal weight on either platform - especially when the counters get set to zero for the next gen.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

lame. team xbox posts this sort of rubbish and gaf eats it up.

of course MS will say that. I'd rather go with Japan vs the West.

PS3 + N5 vs MS.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

It's clear enough (to me) that Nintendo's going down its own road next-gen. Not saying they'll not do well, but, really, they seem to be trying to distance themselves and their future endeavors from the rest of the pack by not focusing on the same things.

Xenon and PS3 are going after the exact same market and pushing things further, in a relatively more evolutionary way. Therefore, Microsoft and Sony are direct competitors and Nintendo is doing its own thing. If you can't/won't play in the big league, start your own.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If you can't/won't play in the big league, start your own.

The problem with this is that it seems to be a league that's constantly fading for Nintendo. They better get their act together or they're going to continue to be pushed out.

 

[Acosta]

The problem with this is that it seems to be a league that's constantly fading for Nintendo. They better get their act together or they're going to continue to be pushed out.

And why they should care? is just an opinion, words. As far as they get benefits, it´s not important if Microsoft want to forget them.

I know it´s the classical cry of Nintendo apologists, but if I were Iwata, I am sure I would think the same way. The important thing is your own business model, the quality of your products and the right market strategies.

 

[Borat]

I can't believe Nintendo got beat by Microsoft in their first-ever console outing. It seemed impossible back in 2001.

Big deal. Nintendo and Sony dominated and had the number 1 consoles with their debut machines!!